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Time to win ugly and shore up 21:56 - Oct 2 with 3788 viewsbosh67

Smithies, the posts and our own poor defensive organisation cost us again tonight. As much as I really enjoy the way this side has a real go hopefully Warburton and staff can teach this team to be solid at the back and occasionally, when needed, win ugly. I think fans will put up with a few industrial wins and understand that you can't always play and win pretty. Warnock was very cute about doing that and I am sure Warburton will look at the last few games and hopefully realise that an occasional 1-0 win really is a way to make this team better.

Not letting the curse of lost confidence taking hold is also key.
[Post edited 2 Oct 2019 21:56]

Never knowingly right.
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 21:58 - Oct 2 with 2701 viewsdaveB

not sure we have the team to win ugly, i think if we keep playing the style we currently are more wins will come, could do with a win on Saturday though, never good to go into international break on back of 3 defeats
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 22:08 - Oct 2 with 2636 viewsted_hendrix

Disagree that we need to win ugly, as I've waffled on about it before we must stop conceding goals as we're now up to 23 conceded.
We've got some cracking good and intelligent players easily mid table but tonight we got a good punch in the gob on the pitch, you can hit the post a million times it means nothing.

The result tonight stinks the performance apart from the defending doesn't.

If you offered me a 0-0 Saturday against the dreaded Blackburn I'd take it all day long.
Back on the training pitch tomorrow first thing please.

My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic.

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Time to win ugly and shore up on 22:11 - Oct 2 with 2598 viewsWestonsuperR

Time to win ugly and shore up on 21:58 - Oct 2 by daveB

not sure we have the team to win ugly, i think if we keep playing the style we currently are more wins will come, could do with a win on Saturday though, never good to go into international break on back of 3 defeats


Agree with this.

Continue to play like this and we will do pretty well this season, just need a bit of luck.
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 22:43 - Oct 2 with 2446 viewsBenny_the_Ball

I agree that the team needs to add the capability to win ugly to their armoury but:
(a) that usually applies to when you perform badly and tonight by all accounts we performed reasonably well
(b) at the moment we don't have the personnel to do it
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 22:47 - Oct 2 with 2436 viewsWatford_Ranger

We shouldn’t need to play ugly to cut out defending like the first two.

Keep doing our stuff. It’s great. Tonight was just a crap night against Championship plodders. It can happen.
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 23:46 - Oct 2 with 2270 viewsManinBlack

Our defence is a worry and will cost us and I hope not to the detriment of confidence. Losing 5-0 on aggregate in the last two matches is not ideal before playing our nemesis Blackburn. We always play poorly when facing them.

It is a cause for concern that a team like Wigan, who looked rank against us, have managed three clean sheets this season, something we seem incapable of doing. And they put three past Cardiff, we could not manage one tonight.

I still remain concerned that our defence could land us in trouble in the long run no matter how good we look on the ball. I would not relax even four up as things stand.
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(No subject) (n/t) on 01:15 - Oct 3 with 2158 viewstimcocking

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(No subject) (n/t) on 01:16 - Oct 3 with 2154 viewstimcocking

Isn't it bloody typical, when we're doing so well with the ball, we can't keep a clean sheet for love nor money?
[Post edited 3 Oct 2019 1:18]
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 07:48 - Oct 3 with 1957 viewsYorkRanger

I just think we need patience, we've probably been punching above our weight and the last two games have just been a bit of reality check.

Personally I'm enjoying the way we are playing and long may it continue. A little better end product and some improvements defensively and I don't think we are far away from being a reasonably good side.

Expectations still need to be managed. The change has been significant and given all of that where we currently sit in the table is a really good effort.

Agreed it would be really positive to get at least a point on Saturday...
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:05 - Oct 3 with 1913 viewsWatford_Ranger

If we played like Cardiff last night we’d accept it as long as we won but nothing worse than playing that way in a big soulless warehouse and getting turned over.

I can take losing the odd game as we did last night because we’re developing a proper style and improving ourselves. Players most fans of other teams in this league had never heard of a few months ago are looking like real footballers which is an achievement. Fk paying £33 a game to watch a Pulis wet dream (which has the exact same points tally as us).
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:08 - Oct 3 with 1905 viewsnix

Time to win ugly and shore up on 22:43 - Oct 2 by Benny_the_Ball

I agree that the team needs to add the capability to win ugly to their armoury but:
(a) that usually applies to when you perform badly and tonight by all accounts we performed reasonably well
(b) at the moment we don't have the personnel to do it


This.

We also have to bear in mind we didn't have two of our centre backs available. And maybe they do more than we realised in terms of closing down space, marking people, cutting out balls etc. It could be that we noticed the Barbet howlers but not the positive work he does, I know we have been letting goals in with him playing too but the first two goals yesterday were absolutely pants.

Also the last two matches were against teams who play a bit ugly themselves, particularly at the back. With ginormous and very physical centre backs. Our forward players need to learn how to get round and through those kind of teams. Our fans need to make more noise when our players are fouled, like other teams do. West Brom fans definitely won a couple of free kicks and bookings that wouldn't have happened otherwise by howling in protest. Bookings make a difference because our defenders then have to think every time before going for a tackle. Not all teams play those tactics.

MW isn't that kind of manager. He wants to play good football. The upside is the first half against Luton. And the fact we're enjoying watching us again. The downside is we may not win certain matches. But even he said we need everyone really firing to beat the better teams. And we won't see them at their best every match.

Personally I think we should try and relax a bit. It's Cardiff away and WBA at home. Not necessarily two matches we'd expect to win.
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:17 - Oct 3 with 1870 viewsWatford_Ranger

Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:08 - Oct 3 by nix

This.

We also have to bear in mind we didn't have two of our centre backs available. And maybe they do more than we realised in terms of closing down space, marking people, cutting out balls etc. It could be that we noticed the Barbet howlers but not the positive work he does, I know we have been letting goals in with him playing too but the first two goals yesterday were absolutely pants.

Also the last two matches were against teams who play a bit ugly themselves, particularly at the back. With ginormous and very physical centre backs. Our forward players need to learn how to get round and through those kind of teams. Our fans need to make more noise when our players are fouled, like other teams do. West Brom fans definitely won a couple of free kicks and bookings that wouldn't have happened otherwise by howling in protest. Bookings make a difference because our defenders then have to think every time before going for a tackle. Not all teams play those tactics.

MW isn't that kind of manager. He wants to play good football. The upside is the first half against Luton. And the fact we're enjoying watching us again. The downside is we may not win certain matches. But even he said we need everyone really firing to beat the better teams. And we won't see them at their best every match.

Personally I think we should try and relax a bit. It's Cardiff away and WBA at home. Not necessarily two matches we'd expect to win.


Absolutely.

Think it was more Livermore/Morrison (and Warnock) in the ref’s ear than fans. We lack that painfully snide Championship tactic of having a player constantly bleating to the referee.
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:22 - Oct 3 with 1857 viewsRblockPrior

For me we keep playing in the style we have been since the start of the season, this is a squad full of young players who have hardly played together. In time the defensive side will improve, last night just didn't go for us. Bright could well have put us in front early on and if Eze scores from the shot that hit the post it is a different game.

Yes we turned off on those set pieces but overall I enjoyed watching us last night, it is nice to see us develop a positive playing style. Unfortunately that is not perfected over night.

We do however need to get at least a point on Saturday just to make sure we don't go into international break on 3 losses

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Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:27 - Oct 3 with 1842 viewsEsox_Lucius

Quote from a Cardiff board.
"As usual, people on here being one eyed! Give credit where it’s due! We weren’t that bad - it was QPR who were good! Easily the best of the 5 teams at the Cardiff City Stadium this season. But they lacked a killer instinct in front of goal, mainly due to the excellent work of Morrison, Flint and Pack."
It is refreshing to see other sides acknowledging that we are attractive to watch and maybe, that's all we'll have this season as MW builds a new team. I just hope that he sticks to his guns and keeps us playing this way irrespective of the set backs along the way. We should reach 50 points this season and, IMO, this season that is all that matters. There should be a little money to spend for next season, and the season after, and that will be a better mark of where we are as a team under MW.

The grass is always greener.

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Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:31 - Oct 3 with 1832 viewswestberksr

That was down to shoddy marking at 2 set pieces, pretty much simple as that......

They were a big team who use set plays to apply pressure and then we gift them 2 goals with appallingly organised defensive set up. The second just before half time was absolutely shocking.

Go in at 1 down and you never know what happens, but a Warnock side will rarely give up a 2 goal lead, they just sat back and soaked up the pressure

Eze & Manning deserved goals rather than posts for their efforts
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:45 - Oct 3 with 1799 viewsMiss_Terraces

Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:27 - Oct 3 by Esox_Lucius

Quote from a Cardiff board.
"As usual, people on here being one eyed! Give credit where it’s due! We weren’t that bad - it was QPR who were good! Easily the best of the 5 teams at the Cardiff City Stadium this season. But they lacked a killer instinct in front of goal, mainly due to the excellent work of Morrison, Flint and Pack."
It is refreshing to see other sides acknowledging that we are attractive to watch and maybe, that's all we'll have this season as MW builds a new team. I just hope that he sticks to his guns and keeps us playing this way irrespective of the set backs along the way. We should reach 50 points this season and, IMO, this season that is all that matters. There should be a little money to spend for next season, and the season after, and that will be a better mark of where we are as a team under MW.


Oh no, we're going to become the new brentford. Warburton out!!!!
[Post edited 3 Oct 2019 8:47]

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Time to win ugly and shore up on 09:09 - Oct 3 with 1734 viewsR_from_afar

Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:27 - Oct 3 by Esox_Lucius

Quote from a Cardiff board.
"As usual, people on here being one eyed! Give credit where it’s due! We weren’t that bad - it was QPR who were good! Easily the best of the 5 teams at the Cardiff City Stadium this season. But they lacked a killer instinct in front of goal, mainly due to the excellent work of Morrison, Flint and Pack."
It is refreshing to see other sides acknowledging that we are attractive to watch and maybe, that's all we'll have this season as MW builds a new team. I just hope that he sticks to his guns and keeps us playing this way irrespective of the set backs along the way. We should reach 50 points this season and, IMO, this season that is all that matters. There should be a little money to spend for next season, and the season after, and that will be a better mark of where we are as a team under MW.


Your post touches on something I was thinking. We simply have to be more clinical. Yes, we have shipped five goals in two games but be that as it may, we have failed to hit the back of the net.

We have to work on being more clinical so we score while we are on top. This is vital because like 99% of teams (exceptions being teams like Bayern, Barca, Liverpool) we are not good enough to dominate for the whole game. We now manage to do it for long spells, which is a refreshing change and a sign that the squad is progressing, but every team we play is going to have spells where they get on top and if we have not made out dominant periods pay, we may suffer for it. We need to improve our chance conversion rate. That can be worked on, though.

"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."

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Time to win ugly and shore up on 09:24 - Oct 3 with 1692 viewsDorse

I said on Saturday that, at some point, we'd play better than that and still lose and last night was a good example. I thought we played them off the park: we identified their weaknesses and exploited them with pace and incisive passing. They could not prevent Rangel and Manning getting into the attack and both Ball and Scowen covered miles in support.

The only thing they were playing for was set-piece position and, when they achieved it, their strengths were too much for us to mitigate. Hugill was monstered for the first (by Flint, I think) and the second was down to us not being physically able to get to the ball. With 3 centre backs, we might have had a chance but I think we would still have struggled.

'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'

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Time to win ugly and shore up on 09:28 - Oct 3 with 1680 viewsBuckR

Dont agree - last night wasn't about winning ugly. We just completely switched off at two set pieces. Defending set pieces properly isn't winning ugly. Take those two lapses of concentration out and our good football may have paid dividends.
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 09:47 - Oct 3 with 1636 views2Thomas2Bowles

Neil Warnock after the game.
The Championship is about winning games…

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Time to win ugly and shore up on 10:11 - Oct 3 with 1585 viewsAntti_Heinola

Good posts on here. We certainly shouldn't abandon our way of playing because of two defeats, because we are playing well. We do need, though, to be tighter at the back and more clinical with our finishing (although 99% of teams would say that!). The problem with approaching a game in a new way, thinking about just stopping the opposition, is - what happens if you then go one down anyway? It's not a great way to approach a game IMO.

At the moment, and I thought this after the Albion game, we remind me of Bournemouth from the year we went up in the play-offs. We beat them 3-0 at home, but they played really well. We were just bigger, stronger and more clinical. The next season, they went up. Not saying that's what we'll do, of course, but it feels like a similar stage of development to me. Last night's game was very, very similar to that one. I remember coming away not being quite sure how we won 3-0 - although, as with Cardiff, we were worthy winners.

We heard a lot about Warburton before he came - no plan B and all that stuff (although no Plan B for some fans means 'He won't stick two big men up front and hoof it to them'), most of which has been disproved. But defence was a real problem at Forest, and it's starting to look the same here. First thing, though, is to cut out two bad habits - silly, needless fouls around the box, and not leaving players completely unmarked at set pieces - that, we should be able to solve.

Bare bones.

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Time to win ugly and shore up on 10:25 - Oct 3 with 1537 viewsnix

Time to win ugly and shore up on 08:17 - Oct 3 by Watford_Ranger

Absolutely.

Think it was more Livermore/Morrison (and Warnock) in the ref’s ear than fans. We lack that painfully snide Championship tactic of having a player constantly bleating to the referee.


Yes agree with you. It always surprises me how we don't do this more but other teams are blatant about it. It's not about screaming in the ref's face, but just having a word and pointing out when you've been pushed, had your shirt pulled etc, as it puts the idea into the ref's head for next time it happens. But I'd also like us to play our part too. I think we can make a difference.
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 10:31 - Oct 3 with 1512 viewsstevec

The high ball to the far post on Manning's side has been a problem all season.

On second viewing of the first goal I was a bit harsh on Kelly as although a floated free kick it was probably too far for him to come but that said, the Marcel Marceau routine along the goal line (Kelly and Lumley) isn't defending goals either.

The keeper(s) have to become more reactive to this fault and in training work on the keeper chancing his arms for those long balls whereby players immediately get back to defend the goal line if he fumbles.

At the moment the defence doesn't appear to have too much trust in the keeper doing much and look low on confidence.

It is frustrating to lose when you're playing pretty football and dominating long sections of the game but we need to sort out this defensive shambles before the likes of Eze, Chair, Wells and Hugill wonder what their efforts are for.
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Time to win ugly and shore up on 10:43 - Oct 3 with 1474 viewsWestbourneR

Time to win ugly and shore up on 09:09 - Oct 3 by R_from_afar

Your post touches on something I was thinking. We simply have to be more clinical. Yes, we have shipped five goals in two games but be that as it may, we have failed to hit the back of the net.

We have to work on being more clinical so we score while we are on top. This is vital because like 99% of teams (exceptions being teams like Bayern, Barca, Liverpool) we are not good enough to dominate for the whole game. We now manage to do it for long spells, which is a refreshing change and a sign that the squad is progressing, but every team we play is going to have spells where they get on top and if we have not made out dominant periods pay, we may suffer for it. We need to improve our chance conversion rate. That can be worked on, though.


Very much what I said on the other thread.

We now dominate possession for long spells which is great and it really hasn't been that way for... well we didn't even have that with Warnock... but we now need to make sure that when we have the ball we're decisive and clinical in the final third.

There was a lot of the ball being passed square across the edge of the box or players taking three four five touches when we were in dangerous positions - and as we dallied they regained their shape and the space closed down and the chance disappeared.

Chair was particularly guilty, so was BOS and even Eze was prone to slowing it down too much sometimes.

We need someone to grab the dangerous moments and carve a chance on goal. Speed of thought and clarity. Tbf Wells has often been that man this season and he wasn't fully fit.

Our best move was when we released Manning quickly down the left of the box and he and flashed over a cross for Rangel who should have connected and scored. That's the tempo and patterns we need to play.
[Post edited 3 Oct 2019 10:44]

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Time to win ugly and shore up on 10:54 - Oct 3 with 1429 viewsstevec

Time to win ugly and shore up on 10:43 - Oct 3 by WestbourneR

Very much what I said on the other thread.

We now dominate possession for long spells which is great and it really hasn't been that way for... well we didn't even have that with Warnock... but we now need to make sure that when we have the ball we're decisive and clinical in the final third.

There was a lot of the ball being passed square across the edge of the box or players taking three four five touches when we were in dangerous positions - and as we dallied they regained their shape and the space closed down and the chance disappeared.

Chair was particularly guilty, so was BOS and even Eze was prone to slowing it down too much sometimes.

We need someone to grab the dangerous moments and carve a chance on goal. Speed of thought and clarity. Tbf Wells has often been that man this season and he wasn't fully fit.

Our best move was when we released Manning quickly down the left of the box and he and flashed over a cross for Rangel who should have connected and scored. That's the tempo and patterns we need to play.
[Post edited 3 Oct 2019 10:44]


This is true but in the last two games we've come up against possibly the two best centre half pairings in the Division.

Hugill's not been given a single chance and has been bullied off the park by giants, no real fault in that. Wells doesn't look entirely fit either.

That put a huge onus on Eze, Chair and BOS and scoring wise, none of them are prolific.
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