| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 15:54 - Nov 28 with 1890 views | Antti_Heinola |
As Fulham fans once sang as they put three past us before half time for about the sixth game in a row: 'It's happening again, it's happening again, Queens Park Rangers, it's happening again.' I'm still hoping the wheels aren't quite coming off, and that we're just having a bad patch that we will eventually, somehow emerge from. The worry is, although we were good in spells either side of half time, this was not the frustrating story of Fulham on Friday, but a team well beaten on its own patch.
1. SUSCEPTIBILITY: Even a few weeks ago, some posters were saying we'd been 'found out', which I always think is a phrase that means almost nothing. All teams have weak points, it's something else to exploit them. But this idea is irrelevant now because there is nothing to 'find out'. The bald fact is, after 10 games in a row of conceding 2+ goals, we are susceptible to any sort of attack you care to mention. We are vu8lnerable from crosses. We are vulnerable from set piueces and corners. We are vulnerable when players run at us at pace. We are vulnerable to balls played in behind our wing backs, that pull our centre backs out of position. We are vulnerable to our own players continually making stupid mistakes. And we are vulnerable to a basic straight ball played just beyond out centre backs - time and time and time again, this most simple of balls confounds us. It could (maybe should) have brought a red card v Boro. It did bring a red card last night. There is simply no area in which a team could choose to attack us and not feel confident of success. I was thinking we just needed to cut out the silly mistakes, but we're beyond that now. Unlike some, I don't think this is about passing from the back, which I think people are fretting and obsessing about too much, particularly when we simply cannot defend almost any sort of cross. This goes back to the basics, it's not about how we try to keep possession.
2. TAILSPIN: It is six without a win again. In all comps last season we had runs of 5 without a win and 7 without a win. The year before that runs of 7 without a win, and six without a win. The year before that, six without a win on three occasions. It is every season, regardless of manager, regardless of players. You can keep going back and back and it's the same story. This club does not seem able to bounce back from setbacks very well, and hasn't done for some time. And, really thanks to blown chances v Reading, Boro and arguably Fulham, we're in one again. We could and should have taken 5 extra points from those games, leaving us 7th equal with Bristol. But we didn't and now, just a few short weeks from the glorious opening games, the relegation struggle we thought may have been banished for this season at least, is quickly becoming more of a reality. I don't think we'll go down - there are worse sides out there, but this repetitive pattern of losing a couple, of not capitalising on good performances, of never quite being able to turn on a really big performance when it's needed, must be addressed. Eustace spoke about a culture of losing at the club, so an entire squad was shipped out. but has that culture changed? Do we feel like winners yet? It's still early days for Warburton, and I still believe he is the best man we could get for this job, but we're starting to look ragged. The last 10 last night were diabolical. And if we start losing confidence, confidence that we still had less than a week ago in a mostly good display undone as usual by horrific defending, and we lose that ability and strength and willingness to pass, we will not be left with very much. I know Warburton will not play 6 at the back at Derby, shut up shop, and defend for our lives, he won't abandon his principles. I also know that with no Kelly, no Barbet, no Wallace and no Angel he has very little he can actually change. But on Saturday the players need to stand the fk up and show some fight and try, by whatever means, to get a result, before it turns into something like McClaren's months of hell.
3. 3RD GOAL: First goal was awful, as per. 2nd goal I can sort of forgive because with 10 men and a goal down there's always the chance you'll get caught out-numbered. But the third was really terrible. Kane, who I think perhaps people have been a little harsh on today, was badly at fault here. the 'defend as a team' stuff is fair enough, but not with stuff like this. Before he even got the ball he was telling Lumpey where he wanted to put it even though really he had no need to go back. And then compounded that with a horrendous slice, before then being beaten easily for the inevitable goal. We have no chance when stuff like this is going on.
4. 4th GOAL: I like Lumley, I really do, and before Christmas last year I thimk he was playing well. But now he's struggling so badly, he really is. Confidence shot. The loud, bulletproof keeper we were watching this time last year has long since disappeared into his shell and while of course his defence are doing him almost no favours, he's not exactly helping. The Fulham debacle, followed by this fourth goal, which really he should have been holding. Even then, it spoke volumes that two Forest players were there before any of our defenders. Another cheap goal in a season that's already had 5 seasons-worth of them.
5. AMOS: Thought there were real signs of improvement last week, but his first half last night was shambolic. I am not sure he touched the ball. He seemed to play almost inside right, but almost never showed for the ball, constantly hiding, not demanding the ball. And if he's not showing, and Eze is marked tightly, and Wells is on his own up front, options rapidly become very limited. It's such a key position and I'm not sure what he was doing first half last night. No surprise at all when he was substituted.
6. MANNING: Love him, never stops working, but I'm starting to wonder if we're better off switching to a back 4 with Rangel and Wallace (when fit and unsuspended) as full backs and whoever is fit in the middle and just go for an experienced back four with Manning into Amos's position. At least he would show for the ball and also show some fight in winning it, and also we might solve the issue of how many goals come from our left side. Last night nothing went right for him. He had numerous chances to cross and his normally reliable left foot let him down badly - overhit, underhit, hitting first defender, going straight out of play... his delivery just wasn't there. A poor night for him on a night of poor nights. |  |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 16:20 - Nov 28 with 1790 views | PinnerPaul |
Agree with most of that especially point 1.
I think 'tailspin' happens to lots of clubs not unique to us , not that
it helps much!
Red card was correct, 4th goal was offside.
Not sure about the foul on Manning that no one has mentioned much - not on the highlights and I am T block so not a great view, MW, naturally thought it was a red - impossible for me to see from my seat. Manning didn't need treatment and although that's not the criteria for a red, but it does give a bit of a clue. |  | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 16:28 - Nov 28 with 1759 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 16:20 - Nov 28 by PinnerPaul |
Agree with most of that especially point 1.
I think 'tailspin' happens to lots of clubs not unique to us , not that
it helps much!
Red card was correct, 4th goal was offside.
Not sure about the foul on Manning that no one has mentioned much - not on the highlights and I am T block so not a great view, MW, naturally thought it was a red - impossible for me to see from my seat. Manning didn't need treatment and although that's not the criteria for a red, but it does give a bit of a clue. |
had no probs with the ref last night other than stopping the game for an offside at the end there when we had te ball anyway, but by then it was 4-0!
apparently on tv the word was our was a red, and the one on manning 'could' have been a red. I was miles away, but it was very, very late and looked reckless. Still, ref I think had (understandably) turned away (it was that late) so don't blame him for giving the yellow. | |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 16:30 - Nov 28 with 1755 views | JAPRANGERS |
Always a good read, thanks Antti! |  | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 16:31 - Nov 28 with 1751 views | Dixie_CT |
1st goal - Leistner missed his header from a straight, long ball and Wallace did well to clear up. From the resulting corner, Kane got out fought and Lumley, after slipping over, was in no postion to help out.
Red card - Leistner missed a header and put Wallace in the 5hit (sounding familiar)
2nd goal was bad defending out wide by Kane then Grabban had the freedom of W12 to tap in. Leistner was the closest defender but Manning should have been tucked in to fill that space but becuase he isn't a natrural left back, he was to high.
3rd goal was really embarrasing. Terrible defending by Scowen in the box and Lumley could have done better with the shot as it was straight at him and he got something on it but not enough
4th goal was so far offside. Ameobi was in line of the shot and the ball nearly touched him. Lumley fluffed his lines (again!) and the humiliation was complete! |  | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 18:29 - Nov 28 with 1518 views | Harbour |
Thanks Antti great summation a truly dreadful night it’s as if we the crowd saw it coming very quiet right From the off. First goal shocking defending rallied a bit after that but rarely threatened had the Scowen chance gone in I still think we would have lost just did not seem to be fight or quality in the team.i think we need to be a bit more cynical saw very few fouls to break up their play. Agree no point in getting rid of MW he is doing the best with what he has there is no money for jan signings unless we sell got to hope there is a reaction to last nights performance.the only bright spot seeing OLLy back at HT he got a good well deserved reception. | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 18:39 - Nov 28 with 1496 views | PinnerPaul |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 16:28 - Nov 28 by Antti_Heinola |
had no probs with the ref last night other than stopping the game for an offside at the end there when we had te ball anyway, but by then it was 4-0!
apparently on tv the word was our was a red, and the one on manning 'could' have been a red. I was miles away, but it was very, very late and looked reckless. Still, ref I think had (understandably) turned away (it was that late) so don't blame him for giving the yellow. |
I did have one other gripe - the 'foul' by Hughill on the keeper after Wells free kick - thought that was so soft - its 'safe' refereeing and you see them given all the time but not a foul for me. | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 18:47 - Nov 28 with 1476 views | WadR |
Great jerks as always Antti, thank you. Couldn't agree more on the meaninglessness of a team being 'found out'.
On Manning. I do think it was a bit of a thankless task in an attacking sense at wing back last night (applies to Kane too).
Forest played pretty compact out of possession so our out ball was diagonals to Kane/Manning. When it's such a long, usually aerial ball, it gives the oppo plenty of time to shift across as a team and is a tough ball to control in one's stride. So the space is gone and either the wingback checks back or passes inside or they have to try and beat their opposition one on one. It is what led to so many poor crosses from deep.
I feel a lot of our success early in the season came from feeding our FBs early, with balls ahead of them to run onto and wingers in front of them. Some of the interplay between Manning and Eze on the left this year has been beautiful. But with no one in front of Manning, he becomes a lot easier to defend against. | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 19:29 - Nov 28 with 1389 views | enfieldargh |
Quest pundit said Red card was extremely harsh |  |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 20:40 - Nov 28 with 1270 views | ozexile |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 19:29 - Nov 28 by enfieldargh |
Quest pundit said Red card was extremely harsh |
100% agree with point 6. We need to stop the rot. I think it was Alex Ferguson who said " you never lose 2 x games in a row" obviously all well and good when you had the players he did. But I hope it's something Warburton might take on board. | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 21:57 - Nov 28 with 1144 views | dannyblue |
Finally forced myself to watch the goals again.
First: As I thought on the night, the cross was claimable by the keeper. Kane was poor for the header, but could have claimed climbing. Two errors.
Red Card: Looks very bad on Toni ('Leistner ist ein Oost Reicher'), but perhaps he was given a push. Look at how the forest player helps him get under the ball and is already on the turn. Again could at other times have had a free kick. Harsh to give a foul against Wallace too. The striker got under him and then went to the floor. Once the freekick was given had to be a red though.
Second: Wells over ran the ball. Kane was done for pace by Ameobi, and Toni completely lost his man. Three errors.
Third: Dom Ball gambled, anticipating a ball inside, letting him run on. Scowen got embarrassed. The shot went under a cruelly exposed Lumley. Three errors again.
Fourth: Offside, although Lumley shouldn't have spilled it like that.
Goals aside, Forest did a job on us first half, just as the oppo interview suggested they would. They got behind the ball and kept it tight. We couldn't penetrate their first layer of defence, let alone their third or fourth. Even so they didn't threaten us apart from as a result of our own mistakes. Hugill made a difference coming on, as rather than continuing to fail to pass through their midfield, we could pass over them (and it tended to stick to him).
I totally agree with you Antti. Confidence has plummeted and that will scupper the thing we had going for us - the quick passing. We can't continue like this.
Time to Paul Hart the life out of the next game. MW has been so ambitious with the numbers committed forward which I applaud (e.g., as he said leaving it man for man 3v3 against Fulham), wingbacks bombing on, but to keep going like that now will just damage confidence further and you need to be confident to play that way. We need to retreat to come back stronger.
If they're fit in time, I'd take Manning out of the defence and go...
Hugill
Manning Eze Ball Chair Pugh
Barbet Toni Hall Rangel
Kelly
With Wallace, who’s looked good, to come in at LB after suspension [Post edited 28 Nov 2019 22:28]
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 22:23 - Nov 28 with 1107 views | OldPedro |
One thing that struck me about the 4th goal (apart from the offside) was that both the Forest and Fulham keepers made similar mistakes in either fumbling an initial shot or making a save and pushing the ball out into a dangerous area in the 6 yard box - unfortunately, the ball never seemed to fall to one of our players |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 10:33 - Nov 29 with 883 views | TeddRanger |
3. "Lumpey" A Freudian slip if I ever saw one! | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 13:15 - Nov 29 with 820 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 10:33 - Nov 29 by TeddRanger |
3. "Lumpey" A Freudian slip if I ever saw one! |
I did wonder!
Fair play for doing the jerks, Antti. Can't have been easy!
Excellent as ever. |  |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 14:19 - Nov 29 with 778 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 0 Forest 4 on 13:15 - Nov 29 by BrianMcCarthy |
I did wonder!
Fair play for doing the jerks, Antti. Can't have been easy!
Excellent as ever. |
ha thanks Brian.
Honest mistake I promise! Who do you think I am, LBlock? ;) | |
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