| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 11:06 - Jan 27 with 2032 views | Antti_Heinola |
A disappointingly meek defeat against a team that turned up and played efficiently but without much invention or danger, and after our marvellous 3rd Round thrashing, it was back to the more traditional QPR FA Cup performance.
SELECTION: Aware I'm in a huge minority here, but i had very little problem with MW's selection and feel the stick he has received since to be a load of tosh. These are my knee jerks and I'll jerk as wildly as I want. I have very little problems with the changes he made and I think this was more than close enough to a first choice XI for the changes to be justified.
It made sense to rest Cameron who has been playing a lot lately and we have a lot of games coming up in the next few weeks. I also had no problem with starting Jack Clarke and only would have had a problem had we fielded a severely weakened XI, which we didn't. Clarke was in fact the only member of the entire team, bar Masterson, who has not had significant starts this season. This was undoubtedly the game to give him to see what he could do.Leistner for Hall was a no-brainer given Hall's injury issues and tha Masterson deserved to keep his place. There was no choice at right back, and Manning could hardly be describved as second choice, even if Wallace has maybe edged ahead of him in the last fortnight. Up front, Hugill was always going to play. The one change that I probably wouldn't have made was recalling Lumley, who I feel needs a spell away from the firs team to try and re-build some confidence, but as Kely was not even sub, I'm wondering if this was enforced. I love BOS, but Warbs has spoken before of how you have to look after playes like him with explosive pace and I can see why he resisted starting him again. Essentially, though, while this wasn't the strongest possible team MW could have put out, it was more than good enough to win and was hardly second string.
I think too often fans look at a team before kick off and disagree with it and then when it goes wrong they say, 'Well, that's because the selection was all wrong.' But those two things aren't automatically correlated. Before the Cardiff game Warburton was pilloried on here for fielding what many felt was an overly defensive side, hoping for a 0-0 draw. We won 6-1. Ball, Pugh and Scowen all started as part of a similar line-up against Swansea when we won 5-1 in a game that saw Masterson's first start for the club. On Friday, I did have some issues with the confusing 4-1-5 (let's generously call it a 4-1-4-1) formation, which I felt would leave us without a link man between defence and attack. But you can't blame formation on the first goal when two players stood around chatting while a throw went over their heads and the keeper fails to keep out a fairly routine shot. You can argue that this may not have happened has Bright and Kelly played instead of Clarke and Lumley, but I'd counter that whatever team you select of almost any ability should never defend like that. I'm happy to be critical of MW for our team's inability to defend set pieces this season - that stuff could and should be worked on in training. But this was beyond basic. It was absolutely dire, and I don't think you can level that sort of sloppiness at the manager's door. He has a right to expect his tea to do better.
And in the end, that goal was the difference. We could, probably should have won this game. We missed chances, we were a bit under powered, we conceded a second when we were taking risks, which was more understandable, but personally I had no problem with the selection. It was sloppiness that caused this defeat and MW had every right to trust the XI he put out to get a win.
2. CLARKE: There are lots of ways to describe a debut - I think there's a list of them somewhere from which football reporters get to choose. 'Dream debut' is when they score on their debvut. 'Showed some nice touches' is when they don't score, but don't do too badly. 'Clearly needs time to bed in' comes with an underwhelming display. And 'nightmare debut' is usually reserved for a keeper making a howler, or someone missing a penalty or getting sent off. For Clarke it was a case of him having a night that started badly and only got worse, no matter how hard he tried. It was a mercy-killing when he was finally hooked, and the poor boy was halfway off the pitch even before his number came up. I felt awful for him. Running into blind alleys, poor passing, caught cold for their first goal marking no one. The more he tried to rectify his errors, the more mistakes he made. There's no doubt he has great talent, and his gait is pleasingly reminiscent of Chris Waddle, but Warbs has work to do to get his confidence up. Early days, but felt really bad for the lad.
3. STRIKERS: This looks like it may not be a problem soon with the news that it seems Nahki Wells may be about to depart, dealing us a heavy blow for the rest of the season, but it often seems that if Wells is playing we're crying out for the strength and height of Hugill, but when Hugill isplaying we're crying out for the guile and pace of Wells. It's a conundrum Warbs has perhaps never quite solved, but Hugill will now have to carry that load on his back for the rest of the season unless something fortunate happens. There was no lack of effort form jordan on Friday, but in the end Wednesday dealt with him well - he won lessof the ball in the air than he normally does and really we failed to get up and support him or supply him with much service - strange, since we fielded so many number tens in one team. And Hugill's main problem was laid bare at 0-1 - a rare decent move and a good early ball finally gave him a sight of goal in a position very similar to the one where he scored so brilliantly against Swansea, but this time he hacked at his shot and it bounced tamely wide, to his obvious fury. huge pressure on him now to try and grab another 7-8 goals before the end of the season to keep our heads comfortably above water.
4. FIRST GOAL: We've conceded some horrors this season, but this one was right up there. I can almost bear honest mistakes - passes that go wrong, something like that. But players standing about and getting done by a throw-in - a throw-in! - was a new low even for us. I know Lumley has (of course) taken a lot of stick for the goal, and having seen it again I completely agree he should be stopping that (it seemed to go through him), but that sort of chance should never happen. Kane and Clarke culpable, while at least Ball spotted the danger and did his best to rectify it. However you look at it, it was so bad. so, so bad.
5. OUR GOAL: Having said that, it was nice to get a goal of the kind we've been giving out all season - the second one like that that Wells has had this season, actually, after the one at Millwall. Beautifully finished too - I always like to see a player go round the keeper, you rarely see it these days. Unfortunately, it happened just a bit too late, but when the ball dropped to Leistner from the corner soon after for a fraction of a second I thought we were going to rescue it.
6. ATTENDANCE: 11,800 apparently, which was not too bad. We probably could have opened the Ellerslie with that, which would have saved the ludicrous crush in the SA Road stand at half time. Well done to the Wednesday fans who came in such great numbers, and enjoyed their deserved win, but I'm in agreement with Warbs, it really felt like we didn't have a proper crack at it and we never really managed to get the crowd going. |  |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 12:08 - Jan 27 with 1892 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
Spot on Antti.
There is something about the cup that scrambles fans brains. MWs selection was the logical way to go, Lumley possibly excepted if Kelly was fit? |  | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 12:22 - Jan 27 with 1856 views | stevec |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 12:08 - Jan 27 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
Spot on Antti.
There is something about the cup that scrambles fans brains. MWs selection was the logical way to go, Lumley possibly excepted if Kelly was fit? |
Lumley in goal is beyond logical. Irrespective of the shambles in front of him, Kelly or any decent keeper would have saved that. Not like he hasn't already set the alarms bells off at least half a dozen times this season.
Maybe Kelly/Lumley was injured but when one or the other is in goal and the other now not even on the team sheet, which happened in reverse at the Leeds game, it suggests that MW may have a bit of trouble behind the scenes on this one and self inflicted if it is.
We'll get a better idea tomorrow night. |  | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 12:36 - Jan 27 with 1826 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 12:22 - Jan 27 by stevec |
Lumley in goal is beyond logical. Irrespective of the shambles in front of him, Kelly or any decent keeper would have saved that. Not like he hasn't already set the alarms bells off at least half a dozen times this season.
Maybe Kelly/Lumley was injured but when one or the other is in goal and the other now not even on the team sheet, which happened in reverse at the Leeds game, it suggests that MW may have a bit of trouble behind the scenes on this one and self inflicted if it is.
We'll get a better idea tomorrow night. |
The same could be said for Leistner more than half a dozen times this year, I'll declare I have always thought he would struggle in the Championship but thought the same about BOS initially and am delighted to be proved so wrong (good coaching and building a players confidence, well done to MW and his team)
1st Goal - Leistner never reacted to cover his full-back and turned his back on the shot
2nd Goal - Leistner is not in a great starting position, then follows the ball and shows his man his back, he's now in trouble, but compounds this by watching the pass and then running a wide line allowing his man an unblocked run on goal, 3 mistakes in one move
Yet Lumley, Clarke and Kane have been slaughtered, Manning and Warburton have been criticized and not a single fan has mentioned the elephant in the room. Like the fella, no doubt a great pro, but lack of pace and prone to ball-watching is a killer in the championship. | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 12:55 - Jan 27 with 1774 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 12:36 - Jan 27 by ParkRoyalR |
The same could be said for Leistner more than half a dozen times this year, I'll declare I have always thought he would struggle in the Championship but thought the same about BOS initially and am delighted to be proved so wrong (good coaching and building a players confidence, well done to MW and his team)
1st Goal - Leistner never reacted to cover his full-back and turned his back on the shot
2nd Goal - Leistner is not in a great starting position, then follows the ball and shows his man his back, he's now in trouble, but compounds this by watching the pass and then running a wide line allowing his man an unblocked run on goal, 3 mistakes in one move
Yet Lumley, Clarke and Kane have been slaughtered, Manning and Warburton have been criticized and not a single fan has mentioned the elephant in the room. Like the fella, no doubt a great pro, but lack of pace and prone to ball-watching is a killer in the championship. |
Sorry mate, I'm not having blaming a CB for a left back being completely unmarked from a throw. That's basic defence .There are THREE players who fail to track that LB before TL can even get close to him, because TL is doing his job in the centre. Cover his full back?! It's a quick throw and that's the job of Clarke/Ball not him. He doesn't turn his back, he's trying to stop the pull back, rightly thinking a shot from there should be easily saved at the near post by the keeper. You can even see Ball screaming at Kane and Clarke to wake up. | |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 13:08 - Jan 27 with 1737 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 12:55 - Jan 27 by Antti_Heinola |
Sorry mate, I'm not having blaming a CB for a left back being completely unmarked from a throw. That's basic defence .There are THREE players who fail to track that LB before TL can even get close to him, because TL is doing his job in the centre. Cover his full back?! It's a quick throw and that's the job of Clarke/Ball not him. He doesn't turn his back, he's trying to stop the pull back, rightly thinking a shot from there should be easily saved at the near post by the keeper. You can even see Ball screaming at Kane and Clarke to wake up. |
Once the initial error is made (undisputed) and the LB is unmarked and running towards the near post the covering Centre Half has to react.
There is an opportunity to close-down the shot and block the cutback, and if you watch the highlights, he clearly turns his back, even though we have a spare defender in the area.
Likewise, for the 2nd goal, very poor play, compounding his usual errors of poor positioning / ball-watching and lack of pace, but somehow top scores a 6 in the match report, same as Ball and BOS, although fully accountable for the 2nd goal and should have done better for the 1st (same could be said of Lumley but other way round)
Don't want to go all negative on the bloke but need to be fair to all, including Lumley, Kane and Clarke. | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 13:16 - Jan 27 with 1712 views | daveB |
The biggest issue I had with the team selection was that the fixture was moved to Friday to give players an extra days rest before Blackburn so to do that and still not play more of the first team was ridiculous.
Starting Lumley was an awful decision, the bloke has gone, he is all over the place and an absolute liability. He should be nowhere near the team at the moment. Kelly has hardly played for months, what on earth are we resting him for.
I'd have started Bright as well given the form he is in and the way he has us playing higher up the pitch. The midfield were all far too deep and he waited far too long to change things.
Complete wasted opportunity and in a week where e are going to lose Wells for financial reasons to piss away the chance of gaining more revenue was not the smartest move |  | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 13:36 - Jan 27 with 1664 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 13:16 - Jan 27 by daveB |
The biggest issue I had with the team selection was that the fixture was moved to Friday to give players an extra days rest before Blackburn so to do that and still not play more of the first team was ridiculous.
Starting Lumley was an awful decision, the bloke has gone, he is all over the place and an absolute liability. He should be nowhere near the team at the moment. Kelly has hardly played for months, what on earth are we resting him for.
I'd have started Bright as well given the form he is in and the way he has us playing higher up the pitch. The midfield were all far too deep and he waited far too long to change things.
Complete wasted opportunity and in a week where e are going to lose Wells for financial reasons to piss away the chance of gaining more revenue was not the smartest move |
We could and should have won with the team put out, which is my point. And that was a team he could've picked at any time this season
All you're doing is assuming had we played your team we would've won.
First sub was at 66 mins. Don't really have a issue with that. | |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 14:09 - Jan 27 with 1587 views | daveB |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 13:36 - Jan 27 by Antti_Heinola |
We could and should have won with the team put out, which is my point. And that was a team he could've picked at any time this season
All you're doing is assuming had we played your team we would've won.
First sub was at 66 mins. Don't really have a issue with that. |
need to score 2 or 3 goals when Lumley starts games, was a daft decision that did more harm to Lumley again and the team. | | | |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 14:16 - Jan 27 with 1562 views | robith |
No knee jerking for me as we took the opportunity to decant from the paddocks for the night to the Upper Loft. Good lord how do you people live like that? Thankfully I was second row from the back to i could stand up from 60 minutes because my left leg had gone completely dead and I was having to use my glove as padding on my knees as the seats in front of them cut through me like wire |  | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 16:14 - Jan 27 with 1449 views | PinnerPaul |
Selection section spot on.
Look at match thread PRE MATCH
ONE post criticising selection about half a dozen saying its fine.
We can moan about the way FA Cup is treated but all other clubs - big and small make numerous changes for it - fact of life and NOT just a QPR thing. | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 17:02 - Jan 27 with 1345 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 13:36 - Jan 27 by Antti_Heinola |
We could and should have won with the team put out, which is my point. And that was a team he could've picked at any time this season
All you're doing is assuming had we played your team we would've won.
First sub was at 66 mins. Don't really have a issue with that. |
Antti,
I see your point but what I would say is that we should have given ourselves every single chance of winning that game. We didn't. |  |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 17:26 - Jan 27 with 1315 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 17:02 - Jan 27 by BrianMcCarthy |
Antti,
I see your point but what I would say is that we should have given ourselves every single chance of winning that game. We didn't. |
I don't think it's that black and white mate. | |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 17:33 - Jan 27 with 1298 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 17:26 - Jan 27 by Antti_Heinola |
I don't think it's that black and white mate. |
I actually think it was this simple in this case, Antti. The team had four days' rest after Friday and our League is done for the season in all likelihood. We absolutely had to go for the cup rather than face dwindling finances, dwindling crowds and dwindling interest in the event of a cup exit.
Our strongest is always subjective. However, as you rightly point out, last Friday it didn't include Lumley and it did include BOS. | |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 18:40 - Jan 27 with 1229 views | Paddyhoops |
Agree with pretty most of what you said Antti, however
I couldn't understand why Wells didn't start.
We're in a situation where finances are tight and I'm assuming we're paying big money for Well's wages, so why not ring the last drop out of him. He's since departed as we ultimately knew he would. Just didn't make any sense!! | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 21:05 - Jan 27 with 1120 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 17:33 - Jan 27 by BrianMcCarthy |
I actually think it was this simple in this case, Antti. The team had four days' rest after Friday and our League is done for the season in all likelihood. We absolutely had to go for the cup rather than face dwindling finances, dwindling crowds and dwindling interest in the event of a cup exit.
Our strongest is always subjective. However, as you rightly point out, last Friday it didn't include Lumley and it did include BOS. |
I think he's explained he's managing BOS, who's already had one injury this season, carefully. literally a month ago leaving him out would barely have raised an eyebrow.
Don't get me wrong, I want him in the side, I've been banging his drum longer than anyone else on here, but if MW thought he'd rather keep BOS in reserve and believed the side he put out could win, I'm happy to back him on that. And in the end, I don't believe the absence of BOS cost us the win.
I feel like Kelly must have had a knock or something to not be on the bench. | |
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| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 23:54 - Jan 27 with 1015 views | Northernr |
On the selection... if we were playing Sheff Wed in the league on Friday night would that have been the team? If not, then it was the wrong decision. |  | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 01:10 - Jan 28 with 960 views | Devon_4_England |
Should have gone with the team that started versus Leeds unless there were some injuries.
Chance to build some momentum and build on only the 3rd clean sheet of the season.
BOS and Wells were bang in form and should have started. Agree with most of your stuff Antti but Warbs got this one wrong. Like many of the dozens of managers before him in the Cup. Love what he has done this season but this game was there for the taking and we should have given ourselves the maximum opportunity to progress. |  | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 01:12 - Jan 28 with 960 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 23:54 - Jan 27 by Northernr |
On the selection... if we were playing Sheff Wed in the league on Friday night would that have been the team? If not, then it was the wrong decision. |
The last time I checked Championship managers made an average of 7.2 changes for FA Cup matches. On Friday we made 7 and Wednesday made 6.
As this behaviour is more or less universal, yet managers want to stay in a job, there must be compelling reasons why they field weakened teams. I accept that motivating a squad and protecting players from injury must be good enough reasons, Why else would they all do it? | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 14:37 - Jan 28 with 822 views | PinnerPaul |
Another thought - simplistic I know but
To win the FA Cup we were about 50/1 before the 4th round, to reach top 6 we're about 10/1 - its obvious which one is more likely. | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 15:46 - Jan 28 with 765 views | daveB |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 14:37 - Jan 28 by PinnerPaul |
Another thought - simplistic I know but
To win the FA Cup we were about 50/1 before the 4th round, to reach top 6 we're about 10/1 - its obvious which one is more likely. |
not really about winning the cup, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that is possible but football should be about having great moments and memories. Thats what you get with a cup run, the excitement the hope that on the day you can win against teams you can’t beat over a full league season.
As an example my eldest kid was a bit too young for the away games in the Prem last time so was beside himself with excitement at the prospect of us winning last Friday and potentially having the chance to go to Spurs, West Ham, Man City etc. I know we’d lose those games but it would be a memory to last. He was actually in hospital having a small op on Thursday but all he could ask the surgeon afterwards was if he could go to QPR the next day because he was excited about the thought of QPR progressing in a cup. In the days where going to QPR has been a bit of a chore the last few years this was a chance to create memories for fans both old and young. That Watford night and the build up last year was the highlight of the season.
When I was a kid the cup runs in 82, 86 and 1990 were what made me want to come back every season because they were so exciting.
The way that QPR and the vast majority of clubs these days treat these cups as an annoyance rather than an opportunity will eventually kill the game, Clubs seem to play stronger teams in pre season than in cup games. I mean really what is the point of going if we are not going to try our very best to win the game and give ourselves the best opportunity to do so.
I know that if Kelly and Bright had started we still might have lost but at least give yourself the best chance. | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 16:23 - Jan 28 with 723 views | PinnerPaul |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 15:46 - Jan 28 by daveB |
not really about winning the cup, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that is possible but football should be about having great moments and memories. Thats what you get with a cup run, the excitement the hope that on the day you can win against teams you can’t beat over a full league season.
As an example my eldest kid was a bit too young for the away games in the Prem last time so was beside himself with excitement at the prospect of us winning last Friday and potentially having the chance to go to Spurs, West Ham, Man City etc. I know we’d lose those games but it would be a memory to last. He was actually in hospital having a small op on Thursday but all he could ask the surgeon afterwards was if he could go to QPR the next day because he was excited about the thought of QPR progressing in a cup. In the days where going to QPR has been a bit of a chore the last few years this was a chance to create memories for fans both old and young. That Watford night and the build up last year was the highlight of the season.
When I was a kid the cup runs in 82, 86 and 1990 were what made me want to come back every season because they were so exciting.
The way that QPR and the vast majority of clubs these days treat these cups as an annoyance rather than an opportunity will eventually kill the game, Clubs seem to play stronger teams in pre season than in cup games. I mean really what is the point of going if we are not going to try our very best to win the game and give ourselves the best opportunity to do so.
I know that if Kelly and Bright had started we still might have lost but at least give yourself the best chance. |
I DID say it was a simplistic view and you are right Dave!
It was a joy to see the enjoyment on the kids faces on TV at the Man City game when they scored 4 - they didn't care it was 'only' Fulham, it was 'only' the FA Cup or that their Mum/Dad/whoever had to fork out top prices to watch a reserves side dismantle a lower league reserve side.
It should be all about the kids and for Pep to moan about the size of the crowd! -not his call I know but erm do what Newcastle did - kids for a quid - and you would have got 50,000 in like they did. | | | |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 17:49 - Jan 28 with 674 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Antti's Six Knee Jerks: QPR 1 Sheff Wed 2 on 15:46 - Jan 28 by daveB |
not really about winning the cup, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that is possible but football should be about having great moments and memories. Thats what you get with a cup run, the excitement the hope that on the day you can win against teams you can’t beat over a full league season.
As an example my eldest kid was a bit too young for the away games in the Prem last time so was beside himself with excitement at the prospect of us winning last Friday and potentially having the chance to go to Spurs, West Ham, Man City etc. I know we’d lose those games but it would be a memory to last. He was actually in hospital having a small op on Thursday but all he could ask the surgeon afterwards was if he could go to QPR the next day because he was excited about the thought of QPR progressing in a cup. In the days where going to QPR has been a bit of a chore the last few years this was a chance to create memories for fans both old and young. That Watford night and the build up last year was the highlight of the season.
When I was a kid the cup runs in 82, 86 and 1990 were what made me want to come back every season because they were so exciting.
The way that QPR and the vast majority of clubs these days treat these cups as an annoyance rather than an opportunity will eventually kill the game, Clubs seem to play stronger teams in pre season than in cup games. I mean really what is the point of going if we are not going to try our very best to win the game and give ourselves the best opportunity to do so.
I know that if Kelly and Bright had started we still might have lost but at least give yourself the best chance. |
Top post, would have been great to pin this on the board in the changing room (or boardroom) before the game, meant alot to the fans, especially the younger ones who's friends have the bragging rights by supporting trophy winning top premier league teams. Should not have risked Lumley and Clarke and played the form players in Kelly and BOS. | | | |
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