| The Beale and end all? Column on 04:35 - Jun 3 with 4984 views | derbyhoop |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 00:28 - Jun 3 by silverbirch |
Highly respected progressive young coach who will improve players loaned to us, great contacts at clubs above us…I think we’ll see some exciting loan players
Edit - and a nice new training ground [Post edited 3 Jun 2022 0:29]
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The downsides of Beale is that it will be his first time as No 1. That, and his Chelsea connection.
All the other doubts are because of the club. Players released leaving significant gaps in the squad, budget, academy players (probably) not good enough.
We may have to sell to invest. And many investments we cannot afford. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| The Beale and end all? Column on 05:30 - Jun 3 with 4948 views | SydneyRs |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 21:41 - Jun 2 by Northernr |
Exactly. That’s why I say I think if you went up with Hoos et al, and you could keep Tony and the owners calm, we could do exactly that. Hoos has said as much in interview.
There’s be a lot of woe is me “what is the point of football if not to have a go” wobbling on here, Twitter would go nuts, but it’s exactly what we should do. And should have done. |
Indeed, but when the idiot "no ambition" and "sign a fcking striker" twitter/facebook brigade are even at it when we're nowhere near the prem, clearly have a very tight budget and absolutely CANNOT afford to beach FFP again I don't hold out much hope.
Like any windfall that falls to parties competing with each other, it just forces prices up for everyone and soon enough you are all back to square one. |  | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 08:35 - Jun 3 with 4728 views | Myke |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 21:37 - Jun 2 by Northernr |
I mean you should get twice that for Willock but otherwise yeh, exactly that, exactly that. |
At the end of January or even February, I would have agreed with you, but our collapse for which he was collectively responsible, plus his serious injury will have shaved a couple of mill at least. I would reluctantly accept 7 mil now with very generous (20%) add ons later. I would love to see him play for one more season, as I think we only saw glimpses of what he is capable of. But if his injury told us one thing, it is the fragility of our 'assets'. One serious injury can kibosh the whole thing. What price Amos if he hadn't picked up that first acl injury? Villa's accountants hearts must have been in their mouths every time Grealish was kicked up in the air, before they got their 100 m windfall and they could only afford to wait that long because they had made it to the promised land.
I don't know the stats but I would imagine Willock got fouled a lot more in the 2nd half of the season than the first, last year, which will happen from the get go next season. Besides, as has being pointed out many times - we NEED to sell. | | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 09:46 - Jun 3 with 4582 views | 1JD |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 08:35 - Jun 3 by Myke |
At the end of January or even February, I would have agreed with you, but our collapse for which he was collectively responsible, plus his serious injury will have shaved a couple of mill at least. I would reluctantly accept 7 mil now with very generous (20%) add ons later. I would love to see him play for one more season, as I think we only saw glimpses of what he is capable of. But if his injury told us one thing, it is the fragility of our 'assets'. One serious injury can kibosh the whole thing. What price Amos if he hadn't picked up that first acl injury? Villa's accountants hearts must have been in their mouths every time Grealish was kicked up in the air, before they got their 100 m windfall and they could only afford to wait that long because they had made it to the promised land.
I don't know the stats but I would imagine Willock got fouled a lot more in the 2nd half of the season than the first, last year, which will happen from the get go next season. Besides, as has being pointed out many times - we NEED to sell. |
There are three reasons why your perceived value is way off;
- He was named in the championship team of the season, and in best 5 players in the league - the same as Eze during his time with us
- He contributed 18 goals (7 goals / 11 assists), in 33 games - a better ratio than Eze before injury curtailed his season (22 goal contributions: 14 goals / 8 assists in 46 games).
- Players market values are typically assigned by similar player comparisons, age, and statistics - and he is right up there with the top players in the championship past and present who have gone for big fees in his position
There is no reason why he not in the Eze bracket, other than his recent injury. We need to extend his contract quick sharp, otherwise we will be getting your knock-down value of 7m. | | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 09:46 - Jun 3 with 4573 views | terryb |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 04:35 - Jun 3 by derbyhoop |
The downsides of Beale is that it will be his first time as No 1. That, and his Chelsea connection.
All the other doubts are because of the club. Players released leaving significant gaps in the squad, budget, academy players (probably) not good enough.
We may have to sell to invest. And many investments we cannot afford. |
But that is the path clubs are now taking & it can't be a surprise when you look at the list of "experienced" managers.
Potter, Cooper, Critchley, Manning, McKenna, Rooney, Lampard & Gerrard were all appointed without spending any time as "the manager". I'm sure there are many other's as well. | | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 10:19 - Jun 3 with 4510 views | sexton |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 04:35 - Jun 3 by derbyhoop |
The downsides of Beale is that it will be his first time as No 1. That, and his Chelsea connection.
All the other doubts are because of the club. Players released leaving significant gaps in the squad, budget, academy players (probably) not good enough.
We may have to sell to invest. And many investments we cannot afford. |
Our greatest ever team was managed by Dave Sexton and included Dave Webb and John Hollins. |  | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 01:33 - Jun 5 with 3314 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 10:19 - Jun 3 by sexton |
Our greatest ever team was managed by Dave Sexton and included Dave Webb and John Hollins. |
Good post and any QPR fan that is put off by his so called Chelsea should have a long chat looking in the mirror.It makes zero difference except he will be able to bring in exciting prospects from at least 3 PL clubs which makes us better.
Imagine talent from Villa, Liverpool and Chelsea coming here because of the respect they have for MB and knowing he will advance their playing ability and careers .
No more highly paid mercaniries strolling around wasting space its time to get this ball rolling | | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 13:20 - Jun 5 with 2934 views | terryb |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 01:33 - Jun 5 by CLAREMAN1995 |
Good post and any QPR fan that is put off by his so called Chelsea should have a long chat looking in the mirror.It makes zero difference except he will be able to bring in exciting prospects from at least 3 PL clubs which makes us better.
Imagine talent from Villa, Liverpool and Chelsea coming here because of the respect they have for MB and knowing he will advance their playing ability and careers .
No more highly paid mercaniries strolling around wasting space its time to get this ball rolling |
The downside of that is those three clubs are not likely to be loaning out any players to Championship clubs without a sizeable loan fee to be paid. Also, their salaries may be higher than the majority of our own players & we would have to pay all of it.
I think (although this is far from definite), that Derby had to pay loan fees in the millions for one years service of Mount & Wilson, plus every penny of their wages. | | | |
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| The Beale and end all? Column on 14:27 - Jun 5 with 2881 views | silverbirch |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 13:20 - Jun 5 by terryb |
The downside of that is those three clubs are not likely to be loaning out any players to Championship clubs without a sizeable loan fee to be paid. Also, their salaries may be higher than the majority of our own players & we would have to pay all of it.
I think (although this is far from definite), that Derby had to pay loan fees in the millions for one years service of Mount & Wilson, plus every penny of their wages. |
Surely the fee they charge would be less if they think the coach will improve the player. | | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 16:46 - Jun 5 with 2765 views | PinnerPaul |
Thanks Clive.
Loved the many quotes, particularly interested in his view on how to motivate the millionaires.
Will be interesting, as usual! | | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 17:51 - Jun 5 with 2698 views | derbyhoop |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 10:19 - Jun 3 by sexton |
Our greatest ever team was managed by Dave Sexton and included Dave Webb and John Hollins. |
The Chelsea comment was intended as tongue in cheek. Obviously lost on some. | |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| The Beale and end all? Column on 19:31 - Jun 5 with 2609 views | DavieQPR |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 14:27 - Jun 5 by silverbirch |
Surely the fee they charge would be less if they think the coach will improve the player. |
Players like Louie Barry at Villa who was on loan at Ipswich and Swindon last season wouldn't cost hardly anything. |  | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 20:43 - Jun 5 with 2546 views | davman |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 09:46 - Jun 3 by 1JD |
There are three reasons why your perceived value is way off;
- He was named in the championship team of the season, and in best 5 players in the league - the same as Eze during his time with us
- He contributed 18 goals (7 goals / 11 assists), in 33 games - a better ratio than Eze before injury curtailed his season (22 goal contributions: 14 goals / 8 assists in 46 games).
- Players market values are typically assigned by similar player comparisons, age, and statistics - and he is right up there with the top players in the championship past and present who have gone for big fees in his position
There is no reason why he not in the Eze bracket, other than his recent injury. We need to extend his contract quick sharp, otherwise we will be getting your knock-down value of 7m. |
But why would he want to sign an extension to his current deal? He knows that the cards will be in the clubs hands if he signs an extension on wages much lower than he could command elsewhere and running down his contract must be a very attractive proposition to him. Yes, he might be able to eek out another couple of ks a week with us for another year, but other than that, what is in it for him?
Genuine Q as I'd love to hear your logic. Mine is that a player must surely be better off negotiating as a free agent rather than one who has just cost a club £Xm?
Extending is clearly in the club's interests, no obligation on the player to extend... |  |
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| The Beale and end all? Column on 21:44 - Jun 5 with 2475 views | 1JD |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 20:43 - Jun 5 by davman |
But why would he want to sign an extension to his current deal? He knows that the cards will be in the clubs hands if he signs an extension on wages much lower than he could command elsewhere and running down his contract must be a very attractive proposition to him. Yes, he might be able to eek out another couple of ks a week with us for another year, but other than that, what is in it for him?
Genuine Q as I'd love to hear your logic. Mine is that a player must surely be better off negotiating as a free agent rather than one who has just cost a club £Xm?
Extending is clearly in the club's interests, no obligation on the player to extend... |
He’s got 1 year + 1 year option, so effectively 2 years. But we are entering dangerous value depreciation territory if he isn’t sold this summer / doesn’t extend from here on in.
For the question, why is it in his interests to extend? I guess because he probably gets double money. Say he’s on 10k for example, for the next two years with us, we tear that up and replace it with 20k. And extend for a further two as part of the bargain. Everyone is a winner. | | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 07:03 - Jun 6 with 2311 views | davman |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 21:44 - Jun 5 by 1JD |
He’s got 1 year + 1 year option, so effectively 2 years. But we are entering dangerous value depreciation territory if he isn’t sold this summer / doesn’t extend from here on in.
For the question, why is it in his interests to extend? I guess because he probably gets double money. Say he’s on 10k for example, for the next two years with us, we tear that up and replace it with 20k. And extend for a further two as part of the bargain. Everyone is a winner. |
But, is he a winner? Even if the club fancies doubling his wage (not saying that they should or shouldn't) for an extra year, if he has to stay around for that extra year, he may have doubled his current money, but what if his next contract was to give him £50k? If that was the case, he would be losing out by signing for an additional year.
So, still not convinced there is any reason for him to sign unless he wants a short term uplift rather than a long term investment.
If he wants to stay and is not interested in money, different story. Do you think that might be the case? No, me either. | |
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| The Beale and end all? Column on 07:15 - Jun 6 with 2289 views | Lblock |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 07:03 - Jun 6 by davman |
But, is he a winner? Even if the club fancies doubling his wage (not saying that they should or shouldn't) for an extra year, if he has to stay around for that extra year, he may have doubled his current money, but what if his next contract was to give him £50k? If that was the case, he would be losing out by signing for an additional year.
So, still not convinced there is any reason for him to sign unless he wants a short term uplift rather than a long term investment.
If he wants to stay and is not interested in money, different story. Do you think that might be the case? No, me either. |
You’d sign depending on weekly wage and length of deal = security for you (see recent injury which tells any player a “career ended” could happen at anytime)
Plus, of course, most players do what’s in their Agents interest as it’ll be those slimeballs who they listen to and do what they say. |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| The Beale and end all? Column on 09:34 - Jun 6 with 2130 views | OldPedro |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 07:15 - Jun 6 by Lblock |
You’d sign depending on weekly wage and length of deal = security for you (see recent injury which tells any player a “career ended” could happen at anytime)
Plus, of course, most players do what’s in their Agents interest as it’ll be those slimeballs who they listen to and do what they say. |
I think Willock might also look at what the club did with Eze - he extended his contract and then the following summer, he moved to Palace, so the contract extension didn't stop him getting his move but it did mean a bigger transfer fee for the club that helped him develop. |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| The Beale and end all? Column on 12:38 - Jun 6 with 1963 views | QPROslo |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 11:49 - Jun 2 by CamberleyR |
One point. I've heard him referred to both, so is it 'Michael' or 'Mick' ? |
Bill? | | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 15:28 - Jun 6 with 1793 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 21:41 - Jun 2 by Northernr |
Exactly. That’s why I say I think if you went up with Hoos et al, and you could keep Tony and the owners calm, we could do exactly that. Hoos has said as much in interview.
There’s be a lot of woe is me “what is the point of football if not to have a go” wobbling on here, Twitter would go nuts, but it’s exactly what we should do. And should have done. |
I couldn't agree more. Keeping them calm should we achieve promotion in the coming years will be key to the long-term financial future of the club. There's little point in taking one step forwards just to take two steps back. |  | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 16:19 - Jun 6 with 1710 views | Northernr |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 15:28 - Jun 6 by Benny_the_Ball |
I couldn't agree more. Keeping them calm should we achieve promotion in the coming years will be key to the long-term financial future of the club. There's little point in taking one step forwards just to take two steps back. |
Really, the second promotion, under Redknapp, was an astonishing missed opportunity. They'd failed once, and went back and failed doing all of exactly the same things. We have nothing to show for spending three years out of four in the Prem - that should have been enough money there to set the club up for ten years or more. Instead we've spent that time clearing up the mess we got ourselves into chucking money at players and agents. Really sad. |  | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 17:05 - Jun 6 with 1615 views | daveB |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 16:19 - Jun 6 by Northernr |
Really, the second promotion, under Redknapp, was an astonishing missed opportunity. They'd failed once, and went back and failed doing all of exactly the same things. We have nothing to show for spending three years out of four in the Prem - that should have been enough money there to set the club up for ten years or more. Instead we've spent that time clearing up the mess we got ourselves into chucking money at players and agents. Really sad. |
I remember thinking and even writing in AKUTRS at the time that we looked to be quite sensible when we went up. The likes of Mutch, Fer, Sandro and Caulker all looked good signings on paper and all players with sell on value, well thats how it seemed a the time. It was an absolute kick in the nuts that none of those worked and proved to be massive mistakes.
Also, and I say this with hindsight as I was saying the opposite at the time, I do look back now and think we should have strengthened in that January window and tried to stay up, we gave up far too easily that season. We were not far away from staying up, Leicester below us in January and managed to turn it around. We were 8 points away in the end but threw away games at Hull and Villa which were key for us when we were in winning positions.
We'd have turned our noses up at it but Palace were smart bringing in Pullis and Allardyce around those years to ensure they stayed up and are now reaping the rewards of that. I'd have been front of the queue saying not at my club but look at us both now. |  | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 17:24 - Jun 6 with 1563 views | Match82 |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 16:19 - Jun 6 by Northernr |
Really, the second promotion, under Redknapp, was an astonishing missed opportunity. They'd failed once, and went back and failed doing all of exactly the same things. We have nothing to show for spending three years out of four in the Prem - that should have been enough money there to set the club up for ten years or more. Instead we've spent that time clearing up the mess we got ourselves into chucking money at players and agents. Really sad. |
There probably wasn't a worse manager to have in place at that point in time if the goal was to secure our long term financial future. I'd say in hindsight but it was probably obvious at the time too. |  | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 17:28 - Jun 6 with 1557 views | Northernr |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 17:24 - Jun 6 by Match82 |
There probably wasn't a worse manager to have in place at that point in time if the goal was to secure our long term financial future. I'd say in hindsight but it was probably obvious at the time too. |
I wish I'd written more forcefully about it at the time but it was probably a shrewd idea to shake hands with him at the play-off final. His heart hadn't been in it that whole season, and he was talking about golf club memberships and looking forward to retirement when he thought we were going to lose to Derby. | | | |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 17:39 - Jun 6 with 1533 views | A40Bosh |
So, have I understood the dynamics of the whole Warbs out - Beale in correctly ?
'Warbs out' came about as a direct result of Warbs telling Les and Lee at the end of the 2021 calendar year that if they wanted promotion in May 2022 then he could not be expected to regularly field a side which blooded youth on a regular basis and that he had to get some seasoned pros in again in Jan and he got in only one or two.
Then, either through bad luck or other machinations results went to schite and Warbs missed the playoff minimum target - Warbs gone
'Beale in' is on the understanding that Les and Lee have remained convinced and have sold it to the owners that the youth et up at QPR regardless of Warbs saying otherwise IS strong at the club and that they still believe in what Chris Ramsey and the youth team management are saying about their set up and they need to get the right first team coach in now who will recognise the how strong the youth set up is at QPR and that in 2022/23 the current remaining 1st team squad + an injection of under 23s /B Team players will do enough to kick on again and be in and around the playoffs
If Beale fails then will the board still side with Les and Chris Ramsey or realise that the youth set up is not producing Championship level talent or will it be time to clear out the DOF set up and bring in the old guard again
Would be interested to really hear what the actual expectation is for 2022/2023 season |  |
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| The Beale and end all? Column on 17:44 - Jun 6 with 1516 views | PinnerPaul |
| The Beale and end all? Column on 21:44 - Jun 5 by 1JD |
He’s got 1 year + 1 year option, so effectively 2 years. But we are entering dangerous value depreciation territory if he isn’t sold this summer / doesn’t extend from here on in.
For the question, why is it in his interests to extend? I guess because he probably gets double money. Say he’s on 10k for example, for the next two years with us, we tear that up and replace it with 20k. And extend for a further two as part of the bargain. Everyone is a winner. |
He has a serious injury, really quite amazed how many people just ignore this fact when discussing where/if he might be sold in the summer. [Post edited 6 Jun 2022 17:45]
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