| Dog owners. 21:36 - Sep 11 with 23010 views | qpr_1968 |
what is your view on this latest attack on 3 people.
not a dog owner myself....
but this seems pretty bad. |  |
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| Dog owners. on 08:23 - Sep 13 with 2157 views | Ranger_Things |
| Dog owners. on 21:33 - Sep 12 by ChrisNW6 |
Sorry PunteR that would take many generations of well organised breeding. The XL has only been around since the 80s by cross breeding American Bull dogs and Pitbull Terriers. Then chuck in some Cane Corso, Mastiff, American Staffie plus some further genetic modification of sperm/eggs in the test tube and you get the desired muscle dog.
You sound like a real dog lover and I am sure Murphy is well socialised and trained. This must be an incredibly stressful time and your happiness is being ruined by a high number of inexperienced owners not capable of controlling or training such a complex animal. |
From reading your posts I can see why you have come to that point of view but a lot of the stuff you base it on is simply untrue. Dog breeding is a commercial business and a shoddy one at best. Dogs are bred on looks because that’s what sells and if you are really interested in truly horrific breeding practices then you need not look any further than Kennel Club pedigree dogs, but that’s a whole other sordid story. Sure all breeders will give you a load of fanny about health and temperament but the sad truth is the only thing that matters to most of them is the dogs appearance, and how many puppies they can sell for the highest possible price. That is the case whether a poodle, pug or Pitbull. Certain dogs do have traits like chasing, herding, guarding etc and these can be further encouraged and honed by training for say working dogs but most of a dogs character is formed when young. That is why dog behaviourists recommended that if you do buy from a breeder than it is important to have one that is brought up with its litter mates and mum in a family environment. Preferably with children and other pets as that will help socialise them early on. The fighting dogs you mention are a different ballgame, where sickos condition the animal to be extremely dog aggressive and that involves lots of cruelty and removing the dogs natural bite inhibition. The truth is that while these dogs may have a trait of dog aggression most of the behaviour has been forced on it by a human and that is why breed bans don’t work. You can take any powerful dog and force it to be aggressive. Also if you neglect or poorly train any dog you will end up with behavioural issues, which in the most extreme cases can have tragic consequences.
There is no genetic modification in test tubes to create muscle bound killing machines, just humans being humans, making as much money as they can as easily as possible, and lots of clueless owners not giving a fck. [Post edited 13 Sep 2023 8:58]
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| Dog owners. on 08:27 - Sep 13 with 2143 views | JamesB1979 |
| Dog owners. on 22:51 - Sep 12 by PunteR |
My point is its not been bred to fight and kill. Its been bred for it size and looks like most dogs these days. Yes Bull breeds have in their past been bred for fighting.
All of those breeds you mention are perfectly good dogs in their own right if trained properly.
Look , im not gonna pretend im the Dog Whisperer and an expert on the breed but i know more about the XL than probably most on here. I know my responsibility to keep my dogs and family and friends and neighbours around me comfortable with a big dog with a reputation.
I talk with other dog owners and the general consonance is that smaller dog owners are probably the most irresponsible dog owners , as they arguably can get away with it. But that dog will still exhibit aggressive tendency's , poor manners, lack of discipline.
We've had these news stories in the past as far back as i can remember. The Rottweiler was public enemy number 1 for a while, then the Staffys.
Its media hype thats behind this.
When you have cars killing 1.3 million people a year around the world , do you ban cars..? No of course not, but you put in regulations , training, a means of ownership of responsibility, insurances. I'm happy with all that and will comply.
Banning is not the answer imo.
Also just to add that some so called road men, or gangsta wannabies or grey jogging bottom wannabe drug dealers actually are responsible dog owners. Of course they are.
Lots of snobbery , misinformation , ignorance thats being aimed at a certain demographic and lumping a perfectly good dog with that image.
Anyway, yes its touched a nerve and every time i walk my dogs now i just know im gonna get judged. |
I think the point is there are a lot of complete trumpets out there….people not dogs. And anyone can own a dog. I personally don’t understand why anyone would want these massive, strong breeds but I also don’t agree in banning them. But I can’t stand the argument of but you get aggressive poodles etc. I agree that smaller dogs are normally more badly behaved but they don’t have physical strength to kill anyone. Dogs like XL bully’s and other strong big dogs are like having a weapon. There must be some regulations and training in place for certain breeds and size of dogs. Poodle goes on rampage we all laugh, big strong dog and someone gets seriously hurt or worse. How do we pay for it? Maybe extra tax on those companies and vets that make a mint from Dog owners and also maybe some extra tax for dog owners. | | | |
| Dog owners. on 08:52 - Sep 13 with 2104 views | slmrstid |
Our old house in Leicester was a tiny two-up, two-down end terrace. The house 2 doors along in the last few years of us living there had a giant husky. She was an absolutely beautiful dog but far, far, far too big for the house and garden. All of the gardens along the terrace were knee high wire fences. Just a tiny hop for a dog that size.
So quite routinely I'd get home from work and find Zig Zag in the garden. The owners kept no control of her, they'd just let her wander wherever she liked so she garden hopped quite merrily, even made her way out of the front of the estate to roam around the cul-de-sac. We had a park and disused railway line round the back of the house that she'd wander around at her will as well.
I did hear from another neighbour that they just used her to breed puppies they could then sell, although that doesn't entirely explain why they never seemed to know where she was if she was such a money spinner for them.
I could easily have took her in as she was beautiful and so friendly. It'll be three years next month since we moved away and I sometimes wonder what's happened to her since. Surprised she was never stolen whilst we lived there actually, considered that breed is a fairly desired one.
Another example of completely unregulated, in it for the money, breeder though! |  | | |
| Dog owners. on 08:58 - Sep 13 with 2085 views | stevec |
Licence every dog, third party insurance based on the breed and owners to be held personally responsible for any attack as if they’d committed the offence themselves. Attachment to earnings, and assets automatically applied and credit rating assessed on all owners to decide whether they can own a dog.
That’ll probably be enough to see off the vast majority of people who own a dog for the wrong reasons. |  | | |
| Dog owners. on 09:29 - Sep 13 with 2050 views | Konk |
When we're over the park playing football with my son, neighbours etc and the kids are aged 5-8, the last thing you want is some massive dog steaming over, whilst the owner stands 200 metres away, chatting on their phone, either completely oblivious or just not giving a shi t, that half the kids are terrified. I like dogs, but it puts me on edge - for young kids, scale wise, it's probably the equivalent of a horse running towards me.
And owners saying, "It's okay, he's really friendly!" isn't much comfort if you're scared of dogs, which a lot of people are. My wife is scared of dogs, having been knocked over by one when she was about 5, so I've tried to teach my son to be confident but respectful around dogs, and he's happy with dogs where we know the owners, but watching a young, skinny couple walking two massive, fu ck-off dogs down the pavement towards us the other day, and both really struggling to keep the dogs under control, he asked if we should cross the road, and I was very happy to do so.
When I'm out at night and there's a woman walking on her own, I will cross onto the other side of the road, because I know that women are understandably often on edge if there's a bloke walking behind/towards them at night; I like to think I'd consider other people's fears if I was a dog owner, and maybe go down the muzzle route, and certainly not let it run around out of control around young kids. You might know/think your dog is harmless, but strangers don't know your dog, and a lot of people are very anxious around big, powerful dogs (including me - especially if the owner doesn't seem to give a shi t/know what they're doing). |  |
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| Dog owners. on 10:37 - Sep 13 with 1960 views | PunteR |
| Dog owners. on 06:54 - Sep 13 by joe90 |
Genuine question. What do you get out owning one of these dogs? From reading your posts it sounds like massive ball ache. Why not get a more manageable bread?
I’m not saying this is you, but I get the impression some people revel in the negative attention it brings. Is not obvious why the average person views them with suspicion? |
Well, for a start I don't revel in the negativity.
It's hard work but any dog owner will say the same or should.
I got a bully because I thought its a great dog to have. I preferred the look of a short haired bull breed dog. I've wanted an English Bull dog for years but their health problems and short life span put me off getting one. My mate has a blue staffy and I absolutely adored her, so I nearly got a staff , then I started to look into the American Bullys and read lots of positive things. We wanted a loving, loyal companion for our family.
What do you want me to say..?
I got one because I think it makes me look hard, everyone will be scared of us, and I can bowl about town looking like a Don.. ? |  |
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| Dog owners. on 11:36 - Sep 13 with 1903 views | Ranger_Things |
| Dog owners. on 10:37 - Sep 13 by PunteR |
Well, for a start I don't revel in the negativity.
It's hard work but any dog owner will say the same or should.
I got a bully because I thought its a great dog to have. I preferred the look of a short haired bull breed dog. I've wanted an English Bull dog for years but their health problems and short life span put me off getting one. My mate has a blue staffy and I absolutely adored her, so I nearly got a staff , then I started to look into the American Bullys and read lots of positive things. We wanted a loving, loyal companion for our family.
What do you want me to say..?
I got one because I think it makes me look hard, everyone will be scared of us, and I can bowl about town looking like a Don.. ? |
You did your research and made a great choice mate, Am Bullies are fabulous dogs. Instinctively I don’t believe in banning dogs but I wouldn’t argue against English Bulldogs being a candidate on health and cruelty grounds. They are a genetic wreck and suffer terribly for it. | | | |
| Dog owners. on 13:07 - Sep 13 with 1856 views | LazyFan |
| Dog owners. on 23:25 - Sep 12 by Lblock |
This has to be some sort of wind up?
Either that or you’ve taken too much Spice or Monkey Dust |
It's a wind-up on the rich people part, yes.
But in general, you cannot have it both ways, Saying the breed is fine. It's all the owners. If this is true and its all the few bad owners, then the breed is not fine because there will ALWAYS be BAD owners. If there are ALWAYS BAD OWNERS, then there will ALWAYS BE BAD DOGS (due to the owners failing the poor doggies).
Now, if we look across the Breeds and say which breeds, if they had bad owners (because there will always be bad owners), could really badly harm humans or kill them just due to their physical capabilities (size, jaw, teeth, power, whatever) and then compare this to actual numbers of these in circulation that actually have bad owners, times by the numbers of BAD people attracted to these breeds for obviously the wrong reasons, and we can see patterns that show these Breeds with all those factors and more being the ones most likely (not always and possibly in small numbers) to end up hurting humans and other animals, then yes its a ban because of the few BAD OWNERS not the breed.
Now, there are many owners of these types of breeds who are great owners who look after the dogs and train them well. These owners have great dogs that are more akin to a nice "Scooby Doo" type dog rather than a monster out of Ghostbusters. But unfortunately for them, the very, very few BAD owners have ruined it for them. Worse, we cannot stop these people as no amount of education or incentives seems to stop them. Making the dog for the rich won't work either (hence I was joking before), they just start breeding them for money or make the dog have a million licenses and they go underground. "No mate this is a mongrel, honest guvnor".
Some breeds unfortunately need to be removed from society, banned, as despite the majority of owners being better than the majority of dog owners in general (as they know the dangers with the breed so are extra careful and diligent) the few bad uns ruin it for the rest. So, the reason I think the breeds should be banned is not because of the breed, but because of the BAD OWNERS as we cannot trust these owners and the risk is not worth it.
Keep saying is the bad owners and I shall keep agreeing with you, as that's the reason I think the breed should be banned. |  |
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| Dog owners. on 13:26 - Sep 13 with 1819 views | Lblock |
| Dog owners. on 13:07 - Sep 13 by LazyFan |
It's a wind-up on the rich people part, yes.
But in general, you cannot have it both ways, Saying the breed is fine. It's all the owners. If this is true and its all the few bad owners, then the breed is not fine because there will ALWAYS be BAD owners. If there are ALWAYS BAD OWNERS, then there will ALWAYS BE BAD DOGS (due to the owners failing the poor doggies).
Now, if we look across the Breeds and say which breeds, if they had bad owners (because there will always be bad owners), could really badly harm humans or kill them just due to their physical capabilities (size, jaw, teeth, power, whatever) and then compare this to actual numbers of these in circulation that actually have bad owners, times by the numbers of BAD people attracted to these breeds for obviously the wrong reasons, and we can see patterns that show these Breeds with all those factors and more being the ones most likely (not always and possibly in small numbers) to end up hurting humans and other animals, then yes its a ban because of the few BAD OWNERS not the breed.
Now, there are many owners of these types of breeds who are great owners who look after the dogs and train them well. These owners have great dogs that are more akin to a nice "Scooby Doo" type dog rather than a monster out of Ghostbusters. But unfortunately for them, the very, very few BAD owners have ruined it for them. Worse, we cannot stop these people as no amount of education or incentives seems to stop them. Making the dog for the rich won't work either (hence I was joking before), they just start breeding them for money or make the dog have a million licenses and they go underground. "No mate this is a mongrel, honest guvnor".
Some breeds unfortunately need to be removed from society, banned, as despite the majority of owners being better than the majority of dog owners in general (as they know the dangers with the breed so are extra careful and diligent) the few bad uns ruin it for the rest. So, the reason I think the breeds should be banned is not because of the breed, but because of the BAD OWNERS as we cannot trust these owners and the risk is not worth it.
Keep saying is the bad owners and I shall keep agreeing with you, as that's the reason I think the breed should be banned. |
Nope...... I've read it twice and it still sounds like the cockpit scene from Airplane where Dunne was over Under and Under was over Dunne.
What I think you are saying is - ban all cars because a few people will be bad drivers and we can't stop them getting behind the wheel even if they haven't got a driving license.
As an analogy.
I'll move on and leave this thread here now.
Enjoy |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Dog owners. on 14:54 - Sep 13 with 1709 views | colinallcars |
Just back from Sitting outside the Tap On The Line in Kew. At the next table a Yorkshireman with a beautiful collie. Lovely creature, friendly and attentive.
Why would people want to own any of the dodgy breeds ? Well, I know why. |  | | |
| Dog owners. on 15:14 - Sep 13 with 1689 views | G_Ottershaw |
witnessed some young guy earlier walking around with one of these status symbols and my first thought was, looking at the muscle density, if that thing was spooked or chose to kick off, you haven't got a chance in hell of controlling it!
There are plenty of mature owners in this country keeping lions, tigers and all manner of exotic pets. Maybe for specific breeds (ie extreme musclemass) they should also fall into the same category?
I have actually witnessed a zoo keeper from london zoo walking a wolf along the euston rd nr gt portland street (i guess to help its nervousness to the public), so it is largely about enforced responsible ownership and not the breed. | | | |
| Dog owners. on 15:17 - Sep 13 with 1674 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Dog owners. on 20:28 - Sep 12 by Northernr |
It's a good post mate, as you would expect given your profession.
I'm a bit wary of the bigger ones after a bad experience as a kid. What I find now is if I'm out running or whatever there will often be one bounding up, jumping up, usually 9/10 just playing and it's fine, a bit of an inconvenience and not what I need when I'm sweating buckets 6 miles in but ok first world problems. But sometimes you get a boisterous one, maybe I've upset it somehow, and it's sort of bouncing, trying to bite your arm, bite your ankle, and the owner's trotting over gradually going "oh he's alright, oh don't worry about him, hahaha, come on Rover down boy, oh he's a lovely boy really, he's just a bit excited." And I am... not enjoying this.
But suggesting to people maybe their dog should be on a lead, or muzzled, is basically like slagging off their kid, because people are so attached to them. They cannot understand why I wouldn't be as absolutely delighted as they are at some physical attention from their mutt.
I can't watch the video earlier on this thread. Fcking terrifying. |
Culturally the UK is a nation of dog lovers but IMHO that love sometimes drifts into unhealthy, unwavering devotion. I know quite a few dog owners who put dogs on a pedestal and genuinely believe that in the natural order of things dogs take priority over humans, particularly children. That should never be the case and regulation should be clearer to help dog owners understand their responsibilities towards not only the dog but also fellow human beings. If that means keeping them on a leash, using a muzzle, taking them to dog parks, picking up their mess, or simply crossing the road, then so be it. |  | | |
| Dog owners. on 15:21 - Sep 13 with 1666 views | Juzzie |
| Dog owners. on 15:14 - Sep 13 by G_Ottershaw |
witnessed some young guy earlier walking around with one of these status symbols and my first thought was, looking at the muscle density, if that thing was spooked or chose to kick off, you haven't got a chance in hell of controlling it!
There are plenty of mature owners in this country keeping lions, tigers and all manner of exotic pets. Maybe for specific breeds (ie extreme musclemass) they should also fall into the same category?
I have actually witnessed a zoo keeper from london zoo walking a wolf along the euston rd nr gt portland street (i guess to help its nervousness to the public), so it is largely about enforced responsible ownership and not the breed. |
"I have actually witnessed a zoo keeper from london zoo walking a wolf along the euston rd nr gt portland street (i guess to help its nervousness to the public), so it is largely about enforced responsible ownership and not the breed."
- what about the nervousness of the public to seeing a wolf on the pavement?!  |  | | |
| Dog owners. on 15:37 - Sep 13 with 1639 views | G_Ottershaw |
i was actually considering walkingover and stroking it, but thought the zoo keeper wouldn't have been amused | | | |
| Dog owners. on 15:47 - Sep 13 with 1629 views | colinallcars |
| Dog owners. on 15:37 - Sep 13 by Mick_S |
I know this is going to sound bollocks, but there used to be “an exotic”pet shop in South Harrow down the road from my part of Northolt. Saw a puma, on a lead, get into the back of a van guided by the handler.
We used to sell them the newts, frogs and toads that we used to catch. [Post edited 13 Sep 2023 15:39]
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There was a similar shop just across the frog and toad. | | | |
| Dog owners. on 17:38 - Sep 13 with 1545 views | Lblock |
| Dog owners. on 15:37 - Sep 13 by G_Ottershaw |
i was actually considering walkingover and stroking it, but thought the zoo keeper wouldn't have been amused |
At least tell him his flies were undone | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Dog owners. on 18:12 - Sep 13 with 1523 views | itsbiga |
| Dog owners. on 22:16 - Sep 11 by qpr_1968 |
i am a postman, and you are 100% spot on....
the most aggresive dog to me is a labrador.. |
Was it you that killed Jimmys' scooter? | |
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| Dog owners. on 20:18 - Sep 13 with 1430 views | Boston |
| Dog owners. on 10:37 - Sep 13 by PunteR |
Well, for a start I don't revel in the negativity.
It's hard work but any dog owner will say the same or should.
I got a bully because I thought its a great dog to have. I preferred the look of a short haired bull breed dog. I've wanted an English Bull dog for years but their health problems and short life span put me off getting one. My mate has a blue staffy and I absolutely adored her, so I nearly got a staff , then I started to look into the American Bullys and read lots of positive things. We wanted a loving, loyal companion for our family.
What do you want me to say..?
I got one because I think it makes me look hard, everyone will be scared of us, and I can bowl about town looking like a Don.. ? |
It's said that dogs look like their owner. So you're short haired, stocky, partial to pissing on wood... | |
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| Dog owners. (n/t) on 20:46 - Sep 13 with 1397 views | PunteR |
| Dog owners. on 20:18 - Sep 13 by Boston |
It's said that dogs look like their owner. So you're short haired, stocky, partial to pissing on wood... |
[Post edited 13 Sep 2023 21:14]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Dog owners. on 22:25 - Sep 13 with 1318 views | switchingcode |
| Dog owners. on 20:18 - Sep 13 by Boston |
It's said that dogs look like their owner. So you're short haired, stocky, partial to pissing on wood... |
😂😂😂 | | | |
| Dog owners. on 22:53 - Sep 13 with 1298 views | Trom |
| Dog owners. on 20:50 - Sep 12 by Lblock |
Plenty of kids that need muzzling or worse! |
True but most kid's jaws can't crush bones.
The reality is it comes down to training and socialising the dog when it's young and then ensuring it is properly exercised and stimulated. |  | | |
| Dog owners. on 08:03 - Sep 14 with 1192 views | westberksr |
this will end up with the next breed in a couple of years being vilified when an attack takes place with another short term public awareness campaign.
Alsatians
Doberman
Rottweilers
staffies
pitbulls
bully xl
all breeds that in the right owners hands can be delightful, but they do draw the wrong crowd who aren't fit for the public themselves, let alone to own a dog.
the stats regarding bites are misleading as loads of small dog bites aren't reported, but obviously if a mental bull breed attacks the damage will be more severe.
licensing of ownership and breeding is the way forward; but that involves government doing something that requires a brain and effort; so not likely to happen.
all of the breeds mentioned here as being nice will have a rogue element. Collies being a good example as for most domestic pets they don't get anywhere near enough exercise or stimulation for what they are bred to do. Subsequently become really weird, can be snappy and generally a bit tvvatty.
[Post edited 14 Sep 2023 8:10]
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| Dog owners. on 11:44 - Sep 14 with 1094 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Dog owners. on 15:17 - Sep 13 by Benny_the_Ball |
Culturally the UK is a nation of dog lovers but IMHO that love sometimes drifts into unhealthy, unwavering devotion. I know quite a few dog owners who put dogs on a pedestal and genuinely believe that in the natural order of things dogs take priority over humans, particularly children. That should never be the case and regulation should be clearer to help dog owners understand their responsibilities towards not only the dog but also fellow human beings. If that means keeping them on a leash, using a muzzle, taking them to dog parks, picking up their mess, or simply crossing the road, then so be it. |
"I know quite a few dog owners who put dogs on a pedestal"
The worst example of this is people who refer to dog owners as "Daddy" or "Mommy". It's creepy.
Daddy? He's not my son. I didn't sire him. I didn't have sex with a dog.*
*Stop it! |  |
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