| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts 19:24 - Feb 19 with 4042 views | Northernr |
Simon Dorset's annual number crunch of the accounts released this week...
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/ |  | | |  |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 10:35 - Feb 20 with 1181 views | terryb |
Cheers Simon.
As you know, I can usually follow & understand your financial breakdown, but you've surpassed that this year! From memory, this was the easiest set of figures you've produced to understand. |  | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 10:59 - Feb 20 with 1113 views | francisbowles |
Thank you Simon. Clear analysis for those of us with limited experience of accounting. | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 11:02 - Feb 20 with 1101 views | Third_Division_South |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 02:23 - Feb 20 by LazyFan |
Well it was rumoured we only got ...
Eze sell-on - £6m
Kelman - £3.5m
Rumours for:
Edwards - £4.5m
Obikwu - £0.5m
So, I can see why the poster thought you overestimated the sales! |
It was also rumoured £500k for Frey | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 11:05 - Feb 20 with 1099 views | Third_Division_South |
Your forecast is predicated on the rolling forward of FFP, but aren’t the rules changing next season to % of turnover? or have I got that wrong? | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 11:53 - Feb 20 with 983 views | Northernr |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 11:05 - Feb 20 by Third_Division_South |
Your forecast is predicated on the rolling forward of FFP, but aren’t the rules changing next season to % of turnover? or have I got that wrong? |
The Championship doesn't appear to have made its mind up on that, but that system would be a lot worse for us if it does come in. | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 11:53 - Feb 20 with 980 views | Northernr |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 11:02 - Feb 20 by Third_Division_South |
It was also rumoured £500k for Frey |
Like it was rumoured we got £2.5m for Armstrong. | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 12:16 - Feb 20 with 932 views | Rsole |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 11:53 - Feb 20 by Northernr |
Like it was rumoured we got £2.5m for Armstrong. |
I think we used Bitcoin for the valuation at the time but it’s worth about half that these days….well offside also. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 13:45 - Feb 20 with 775 views | JamesB1979 |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 11:53 - Feb 20 by Northernr |
Like it was rumoured we got £2.5m for Armstrong. |
Wasn’t that including add-ons? You wouldn’t see that in accounts yet. | | | |
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| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 14:24 - Feb 20 with 674 views | Northernr |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 13:45 - Feb 20 by JamesB1979 |
Wasn’t that including add-ons? You wouldn’t see that in accounts yet. |
Says £1.8m transfer fees received (Dykes, Armstrong) potentially rising to £2.2m based on contingencies. | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 14:38 - Feb 20 with 643 views | R_from_afar |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 09:14 - Feb 20 by stevec |
As long as there’s FFP our heads will be constantly bobbing just above or below the water line, pretty much like every other Championship club.
Good stuff from Simon, seems we’re reenacting the 2021 season and one three or four years before that, come up briefly for air, then back under and hold your breath, although these days, perhaps with a better focus.
Short of getting promoted, football needs to look at the fundamental issues that create the problems. If salaries were limited to say 85% of income, still ridiculously high, it would improve our situation by nigh on £3.5 mill a year, over £10 mill on a 3 year cycle.
Would your average footballer losing 13% of his salary put him on the bread line, I think not. I’m pretty sure too, you’d still see the same players in the same league playing for the same team as all clubs would be placed in the same situation and as we know, if they’re good enough to play in the Premier, that is where they will go.
The club have in recent years done an excellent job in filling the ground, although probably taking a hit around £500k-£1m with the lower school end. Usually, when demand matches supply, which were getting very close to, a business will see this as an opportunity to increase ticket prices. I suspect in future years, ST prices will go up at a higher percentage than over the last ten year average. A 15% increase raises another £1mill a season and I would think the season gones marginal fall in ticket sale income won’t go unnoticed.
Finally, Ruben is still taking a hit of £20 mill a year. When you’ve got the kind of money where you can take that hit, I’m always surprised that owners don’t decide to use an equivalent amount of money to set up a non football company, link it to the club, using profits to reduce the football deficit and use that to build a better football team. Seems more sensible than just throwing money at a lost cause year on year. |
I've banged on about this before, and I know Fernandes voted in favour of FFP, but there's a fundamental issue with it all the time that it is based on a club's turnover: It stacks the odds in favour of the bigger teams.
There should be a maximum player budget instead, of the same value for all the teams in the division, so everyone has £n million to play with.
That would be a fair test for all the teams.
Never going to happen of course  . |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 15:12 - Feb 20 with 551 views | OakR |
Thanks Simon, really useful.
It looks like we are following our policy to buy and sell on at profit later but I guess we will only see if this works in 2-4 years time. I guess it's much more risk / reward based than other strategies we could take.
The Dykes / Armstrong figures are interestingly low compared to what was thought.
I've never really cared about not knowing the contract lengths, but for this purpose it would be helpful to analyse for the amortisation (I'd not thought of this before) - I wonder if this is why it's done i.e so other clubs can't work how much we really need to sell vs what I thought was a more spurious reason before about other clubs knowing players actual contract lenghts, which I felt they could always find out through their agents.
It really is crazy that salaries can be 98% of revenue - those things make me really nervous.
Anyway, thanks for this, it makes things much clearer (as much as things can be clear with the lack of definitive information you mention). | |
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| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 15:52 - Feb 20 with 494 views | Northernr |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 15:12 - Feb 20 by OakR |
Thanks Simon, really useful.
It looks like we are following our policy to buy and sell on at profit later but I guess we will only see if this works in 2-4 years time. I guess it's much more risk / reward based than other strategies we could take.
The Dykes / Armstrong figures are interestingly low compared to what was thought.
I've never really cared about not knowing the contract lengths, but for this purpose it would be helpful to analyse for the amortisation (I'd not thought of this before) - I wonder if this is why it's done i.e so other clubs can't work how much we really need to sell vs what I thought was a more spurious reason before about other clubs knowing players actual contract lenghts, which I felt they could always find out through their agents.
It really is crazy that salaries can be 98% of revenue - those things make me really nervous.
Anyway, thanks for this, it makes things much clearer (as much as things can be clear with the lack of definitive information you mention). |
The Dykes/Armstrong figure is instructive on how much all these anonymous accounts really know about what's going on. | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 15:57 - Feb 20 with 478 views | Third_Division_South |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 15:52 - Feb 20 by Northernr |
The Dykes/Armstrong figure is instructive on how much all these anonymous accounts really know about what's going on. |
Well then I guess that means that the figures we’ve supposedly paid out might also be correspondingly lower ie the generally accepted £4.5M for Edwards? | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 16:00 - Feb 20 with 470 views | Northernr |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 15:57 - Feb 20 by Third_Division_South |
Well then I guess that means that the figures we’ve supposedly paid out might also be correspondingly lower ie the generally accepted £4.5M for Edwards? |
Quite possibly, although that figure came from Dave Mc and WLS who are usually spot on. | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 16:06 - Feb 20 with 453 views | TheChef |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 15:12 - Feb 20 by OakR |
Thanks Simon, really useful.
It looks like we are following our policy to buy and sell on at profit later but I guess we will only see if this works in 2-4 years time. I guess it's much more risk / reward based than other strategies we could take.
The Dykes / Armstrong figures are interestingly low compared to what was thought.
I've never really cared about not knowing the contract lengths, but for this purpose it would be helpful to analyse for the amortisation (I'd not thought of this before) - I wonder if this is why it's done i.e so other clubs can't work how much we really need to sell vs what I thought was a more spurious reason before about other clubs knowing players actual contract lenghts, which I felt they could always find out through their agents.
It really is crazy that salaries can be 98% of revenue - those things make me really nervous.
Anyway, thanks for this, it makes things much clearer (as much as things can be clear with the lack of definitive information you mention). |
To be honest if we got £1 million each for Dykes and Armstrong I'd be amazed (and proof a sucker is born every minute). |  |
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| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 16:19 - Feb 20 with 425 views | Third_Division_South |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 16:00 - Feb 20 by Northernr |
Quite possibly, although that figure came from Dave Mc and WLS who are usually spot on. |
WLS also reported the fee for Frey was £500k🤷🏻 | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 16:31 - Feb 20 with 402 views | Northernr |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 16:19 - Feb 20 by Third_Division_South |
WLS also reported the fee for Frey was £500k🤷🏻 |
Again, we'll see. Maybe it is. I find that fairly incredible, suspect it's they've taken over the rest of his contract, but I trust Dave.
We'll know this time next year. | | | |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 17:56 - Feb 20 with 274 views | davman |
Nourry's cooking!
Just hope that he's not cooking the books... |  |
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| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 18:29 - Feb 20 with 226 views | OakR |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 15:52 - Feb 20 by Northernr |
The Dykes/Armstrong figure is instructive on how much all these anonymous accounts really know about what's going on. |
Absolutely - thankfully not on X, but it gets repeated so much you just end up assuming it's true (or near enough), or you subliminally absorb it. I always thought Nourry had done really well to get those prices, so interesting to see the actual amounts (though I guess in theory they could be higher, but can't see too much happening from add-ons). | |
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| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 20:56 - Feb 20 with 77 views | SimonD |
| Daylight fading, or speculate to accumulate? – 24/25 Accounts on 15:52 - Feb 20 by Northernr |
The Dykes/Armstrong figure is instructive on how much all these anonymous accounts really know about what's going on. |
I'm just trying to work on something to back engineer the Armstrong / dykes deals. There is no guarantee I'll get there. | | | |
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