| Cargiant site on 14:05 - Apr 15 with 2368 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 13:54 - Apr 15 by Jevlar |
I've always wondered how much would it cost to buy the cricket ground off Latymer Upper School - on the corner of Du Cane Road
Surely less than Cargiant, still W12, and accessible.
And a quick look at google - its bigger than our current plot
Never gonna happen I know |
shed loads of locals will appeal anything like that as you aid wont ever happen |  |
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| Cargiant site on 14:07 - Apr 15 with 2367 views | Northernr |
| Cargiant site on 14:05 - Apr 15 by wombat |
shed loads of locals will appeal anything like that as you aid wont ever happen |
Barnet recently got a new stadium turned down on the site of their old stadium because, among other things, "newts" and "if an FA Cup replay were to go to extra time and penalties the floodlights would be on until half ten at night". |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 14:07 - Apr 15 with 2356 views | themodfather |
some great comments but IF we had sorted out the old white city stadium as ours, so many years ago all this would be null and void. it was a huge site , now demolished twice for tecos and now flats, that are empty .
if we had support within H&F council, things might have been better .
land is at a premium anywhere in london .
DO WE STILL OWN POCKETS ON LAND in/around cargiant? i thought we did secure bits to try and force their hand , if we do have, any works will have to kowtow to what we own as we could deny access etc |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:07 - Apr 15 with 2196 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Cargiant site on 14:07 - Apr 15 by themodfather |
some great comments but IF we had sorted out the old white city stadium as ours, so many years ago all this would be null and void. it was a huge site , now demolished twice for tecos and now flats, that are empty .
if we had support within H&F council, things might have been better .
land is at a premium anywhere in london .
DO WE STILL OWN POCKETS ON LAND in/around cargiant? i thought we did secure bits to try and force their hand , if we do have, any works will have to kowtow to what we own as we could deny access etc |
When it comes to QPR, the word 'IF' is inevitably followed by the word 'ONLY'.
You cant help thinking the windows of opportunity in and around the W12 area are pretty much closed now.
That saud, is the TA centre top of SAR still there? Could we swap/buy and use the football pitches area to get a site? The TA site has the advantage of already being, 'dug down', as I recall. |  |
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| Cargiant site on 15:14 - Apr 15 with 2161 views | Clive_Anderson |
Maybe we could gradually buy up houses along Ellersie (both sides) and behind the School End as well as the school site with a plan of rebuilding the stadium in 20 years time
It would probably take that long to get a site sorted out anyway. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:22 - Apr 15 with 2124 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 14:07 - Apr 15 by themodfather |
some great comments but IF we had sorted out the old white city stadium as ours, so many years ago all this would be null and void. it was a huge site , now demolished twice for tecos and now flats, that are empty .
if we had support within H&F council, things might have been better .
land is at a premium anywhere in london .
DO WE STILL OWN POCKETS ON LAND in/around cargiant? i thought we did secure bits to try and force their hand , if we do have, any works will have to kowtow to what we own as we could deny access etc |
yo could also add IF we had bought the land jack tizzard school is on for 150k as well to that long lists of IF , they haven built flats at the opposite end of the old oak site mies from car giant no if occupied or even finished yet , that money was rumoured to come back into the club once finished no idea if it has or will be anytime soon , a horrible piece of land from memory next to the sidings , would i pay money to live there big fat NO , car giant will also be a horrible piece of land to try and develop info desirabe flats as well | |
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| Cargiant site on 15:26 - Apr 15 with 2089 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 15:07 - Apr 15 by PlanetHonneywood |
When it comes to QPR, the word 'IF' is inevitably followed by the word 'ONLY'.
You cant help thinking the windows of opportunity in and around the W12 area are pretty much closed now.
That saud, is the TA centre top of SAR still there? Could we swap/buy and use the football pitches area to get a site? The TA site has the advantage of already being, 'dug down', as I recall. |
as said before we could move the school to the TA and gain some extra land but the houses on ellerslie backing onto the school wouldnt fancy that unless we paid well above market rate to buy them , would then allow the school end to pretty much double in size as well , do something with south africa road and that would also allow us to add seats etc to south africa road as well maybe add 5/6 in total to capcacity , apart from that tiny option we dont have much else going in the local area, as ive mentioned bfroe the ground had / has restrictive covenants on it to allow for a certain amount of events each calender year , no idea if this is still in place though | |
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| Cargiant site on 15:27 - Apr 15 with 2092 views | kensalriser |
| Cargiant site on 12:32 - Apr 15 by francisbowles |
Buy the Car Giant site and build houses and flats. Buy the White City estate or some/most of it and relocate the residents to the Car Giant site.
Re route South Africa Road and rebuild Loftus Road (our ground) across SA Rd and into the White City estate, ensuring the Stanley Bowles stand is further away from the residents back gardens. Maybe turn the pitch around too.
Rebuild for 25,000 but with the option to go higher. Ensure there is adequate light on the south side of the ground for the pitch, maybe with a retractable roof on that stand or a see through roof but with blinds that could be used to keep cool, when necessary, on match days or other event days only.
Best of both worlds! Feasible? |
Can we have JCS fit and available from August to May, too?
And throw in a hot date with Eva Longoria for me just to top it off. |  |
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| Cargiant site on 15:29 - Apr 15 with 2088 views | derbyhoop |
| Cargiant site on 17:41 - Apr 14 by TK1 |
I could not disagree with this more. But that's OK. I won't go as often. Are you a season ticket holder? If not, maybe you'll go more.
I nowadays live in prime West Ham territory with Hammers all around who absolutely and understandably loath their new ground and pine for Upton Park, a truly great stadium. They lost something fundamental. Same for the Everton season ticket holder who is embarrassed by Hill Dickson that I work with. But I preferred White Hart Lane too, so I may be out of touch. (though my Spurs friends are starting to feel that way too: that new ground probably will take them to next level after all - down)
All I say is that once you leave these old grounds, something dies that you never get back, the spirit of a club is born from the streets you come from, that's the soul of QPR. I'm sure our board will make sure that doesn't get lost.
PS. the club have explored expansion/refit for the last few years. They are far further along with that than you might suspect. But OOC is more likely. |
You disagree, that's fine. But, with what do you disagree?
Is our current site big enough?
Can it be expanded without huge costs?
Can LR be used for non football events, that could bring in significant commercial revenue?
I remember Derby's Pride Park being built. It started as a 30,000 capacity, which could be expanded. They did expand to 34,000. Now they pull 27,000 regularly, which is roughly 7,000 more than the capacity of the old Basenall Ground. Coventry are now getting crowds they could only have dreamed about, when they were at Highfield Road.
I'm certainly not advocating some soulless bowl, in the middle of nowhere, with minimal facilities around it.
The CG site isnt that far from Harlesden High Street, with stations there and at Wilesden Junction. That's before anything gets built for HS2 or the Ellizabeth line.
It cannot be beyond the wit of an architect to design a stadium that incorporates the characteristics of LR. Stands close to the pitch, preferably double decker with an initial capacity of up to 25,000 and the room to expand. Any success such as getting to and staying in the PL would attract bigger crowds, say 30,000+ |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Cargiant site on 15:32 - Apr 15 with 2070 views | kensalriser |
| Cargiant site on 15:14 - Apr 15 by Clive_Anderson |
Maybe we could gradually buy up houses along Ellersie (both sides) and behind the School End as well as the school site with a plan of rebuilding the stadium in 20 years time
It would probably take that long to get a site sorted out anyway. |
Folks, we have a winner. | |
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| Cargiant site on 15:35 - Apr 15 with 2061 views | daveB |
| Cargiant site on 15:29 - Apr 15 by derbyhoop |
You disagree, that's fine. But, with what do you disagree?
Is our current site big enough?
Can it be expanded without huge costs?
Can LR be used for non football events, that could bring in significant commercial revenue?
I remember Derby's Pride Park being built. It started as a 30,000 capacity, which could be expanded. They did expand to 34,000. Now they pull 27,000 regularly, which is roughly 7,000 more than the capacity of the old Basenall Ground. Coventry are now getting crowds they could only have dreamed about, when they were at Highfield Road.
I'm certainly not advocating some soulless bowl, in the middle of nowhere, with minimal facilities around it.
The CG site isnt that far from Harlesden High Street, with stations there and at Wilesden Junction. That's before anything gets built for HS2 or the Ellizabeth line.
It cannot be beyond the wit of an architect to design a stadium that incorporates the characteristics of LR. Stands close to the pitch, preferably double decker with an initial capacity of up to 25,000 and the room to expand. Any success such as getting to and staying in the PL would attract bigger crowds, say 30,000+ |
What non football events could we attract?
I hear that a lot about a new stadium but everyone who has moved to a new ground they don't all have big boxing events, concerts, rugby etc, they in the main have an empty bigger stadium for most of the year.
Financially there isn't really any evidence that spending a on a new stadium will make much difference in the long term unless you are an Arsenal or Spurs type club and even those 2 lose millions every year.
Derby moved to a lovely new stadium and still almost went out of business, Southampton the same, Coventry were on the brink.
Coventry getting great crowds this year, not so great in every other year when they were crap. If we went up the money generated from an extra 10,000 tickets is still nothing compared to the tv money or what you'd have to spend to get there and stay there.
My choice would always be to redevelop Loftus Road rather than move away. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 15:40 - Apr 15 with 2040 views | TheChef |
| Cargiant site on 14:07 - Apr 15 by Northernr |
Barnet recently got a new stadium turned down on the site of their old stadium because, among other things, "newts" and "if an FA Cup replay were to go to extra time and penalties the floodlights would be on until half ten at night". |
Oh did Barnet get turned down? Thought it was a done deal.
Assume they'll appeal. |  |
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| Cargiant site on 15:46 - Apr 15 with 2009 views | derbyhoop |
| Cargiant site on 15:35 - Apr 15 by daveB |
What non football events could we attract?
I hear that a lot about a new stadium but everyone who has moved to a new ground they don't all have big boxing events, concerts, rugby etc, they in the main have an empty bigger stadium for most of the year.
Financially there isn't really any evidence that spending a on a new stadium will make much difference in the long term unless you are an Arsenal or Spurs type club and even those 2 lose millions every year.
Derby moved to a lovely new stadium and still almost went out of business, Southampton the same, Coventry were on the brink.
Coventry getting great crowds this year, not so great in every other year when they were crap. If we went up the money generated from an extra 10,000 tickets is still nothing compared to the tv money or what you'd have to spend to get there and stay there.
My choice would always be to redevelop Loftus Road rather than move away. |
Manchester U ited are the biggest caterers in that city. When I was working we, a fairly small company, did events at Pride Park, Villa Park and Old Trafford. Far better venues than a corporate hotel.
Derby's close shave with administration had little to do with the move from BG to PP, and everything to do with financial mis- management. Coventry's current success, unsurprisingly, brings in bigger crowds and could be short term. If you said our principal catchment area was west of Edgware Road and north of the M4, then that's a huge potential audience.
I'm not against developing LR, just dont think it is feasible., given the limited size of the site. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Cargiant site on 15:48 - Apr 15 with 1984 views | stantheman10 |
Make Loftus Road 90% rail seating. Leg room problem gone. Get rid of the stanchions that restrict the view (I know that means a lot of rebuilding but certainly a lot less money than building a new ground) and modernise the facilities in the ground. Job done! | | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:08 - Apr 15 with 1888 views | wombat |
| Cargiant site on 15:48 - Apr 15 by stantheman10 |
Make Loftus Road 90% rail seating. Leg room problem gone. Get rid of the stanchions that restrict the view (I know that means a lot of rebuilding but certainly a lot less money than building a new ground) and modernise the facilities in the ground. Job done! |
same capacity though , rail seating dosnt make any diff to how many fans u can have in the ground so wont increase revenue , so dosnt change anything really to be honest . improve stuff but likely to have the same people selling the same over priced crap, most grounds ive been to hich have installed rail seating the leg rooms is actually worse than it was beforehand to be honest , brentfords away end if worse than it was , luton same even less room if u do decide to sit down for ten mins or more | |
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| Cargiant site on 16:26 - Apr 15 with 1809 views | Boston |
I propose swapsies. We'll give you Loftus Rd in exchange for Wormholt Park. | |
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| Cargiant site on 16:29 - Apr 15 with 1798 views | stantheman10 |
| Cargiant site on 16:08 - Apr 15 by wombat |
same capacity though , rail seating dosnt make any diff to how many fans u can have in the ground so wont increase revenue , so dosnt change anything really to be honest . improve stuff but likely to have the same people selling the same over priced crap, most grounds ive been to hich have installed rail seating the leg rooms is actually worse than it was beforehand to be honest , brentfords away end if worse than it was , luton same even less room if u do decide to sit down for ten mins or more |
Why do we want a larger capacity?
We've had enough trouble over the years filling the ground as it is. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 16:42 - Apr 15 with 1733 views | LazyFan |
| Cargiant site on 07:59 - Apr 15 by Northernr |
50,000? As in people? |
Yeah, just like the 45K we got for the play-off final, as it was local for all our fans.
One of the few days I did turn up to watch live, and yes, most of the fans were real QPR supporters, not keyboard warriors like me.
So, we can fill it, since the oppo only needs to bring 5K. And as it's London with a nice new stadium where you're not boxed up like an Ikea chair, then we should get more than that. Oppo fans like a nice weekend in London, as we all know.
I cite the fakes, Reading, who, when they built a new stadium, got an extra 6K average on the gates. And that's Reading! Of course they built in a stupid place and did it all wrong, so its not enough to ....
Build it, and they will come, that's not realistic, it's built big enough to accommodate way more than football games and in the future, not just now. As you cannot rely on football alone anymore, and we only get one chance at this.
Make it super nice; otherwise, in the long run, you end up like Reading, and the chance was wasted.
Events that a proper stadium could accomodate other than Football:
Concerts
NFL
Trade Shows
Boxing
Massive Concert Tours
Circus Acts
Outdoor Summer Theatre/Cinema
Business Conferences
Weddings
Beam backs
And way more.
[Post edited 15 Apr 16:49]
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| Cargiant site on 17:01 - Apr 15 with 1663 views | daveB |
| Cargiant site on 15:46 - Apr 15 by derbyhoop |
Manchester U ited are the biggest caterers in that city. When I was working we, a fairly small company, did events at Pride Park, Villa Park and Old Trafford. Far better venues than a corporate hotel.
Derby's close shave with administration had little to do with the move from BG to PP, and everything to do with financial mis- management. Coventry's current success, unsurprisingly, brings in bigger crowds and could be short term. If you said our principal catchment area was west of Edgware Road and north of the M4, then that's a huge potential audience.
I'm not against developing LR, just dont think it is feasible., given the limited size of the site. |
I don't think it's comparable to Man Utd really, of course you'd get the odd corporate gig although with remote working now you get a lot less of those these days and in West London you also have multiple other options including 3 other football grounds. I'm not sure we'd make much from it.
Having a new ground would be nice and of course you could do some things you can't do now such as leave the stadium with feeling in your knees but of all the clubs our size or smaller who have moved, I'm not sure the actual ground move made a massive difference to their finances in a positive way.
League one at the moment has Cardiff, Bolton, Huddersfield, Reading and Rotherham, all moved to shiny new stadiums and and now in half empty stadiums in league one
Even the big clubs like Spurs, the stadium move has restricted what they can do | | | |
| Cargiant site on 17:07 - Apr 15 with 1640 views | daveB |
| Cargiant site on 16:42 - Apr 15 by LazyFan |
Yeah, just like the 45K we got for the play-off final, as it was local for all our fans.
One of the few days I did turn up to watch live, and yes, most of the fans were real QPR supporters, not keyboard warriors like me.
So, we can fill it, since the oppo only needs to bring 5K. And as it's London with a nice new stadium where you're not boxed up like an Ikea chair, then we should get more than that. Oppo fans like a nice weekend in London, as we all know.
I cite the fakes, Reading, who, when they built a new stadium, got an extra 6K average on the gates. And that's Reading! Of course they built in a stupid place and did it all wrong, so its not enough to ....
Build it, and they will come, that's not realistic, it's built big enough to accommodate way more than football games and in the future, not just now. As you cannot rely on football alone anymore, and we only get one chance at this.
Make it super nice; otherwise, in the long run, you end up like Reading, and the chance was wasted.
Events that a proper stadium could accomodate other than Football:
Concerts
NFL
Trade Shows
Boxing
Massive Concert Tours
Circus Acts
Outdoor Summer Theatre/Cinema
Business Conferences
Weddings
Beam backs
And way more.
[Post edited 15 Apr 16:49]
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NFL already does Spurs and Wembley, Baseball at West Ham Concerts at all 3 plus Arsenal.
You have the 02, Chelsea as well
Far too much competition for a new QPR stadium to be competing with any of them for those kind of events
If we build a new stadium it needs to be no more than 25k. Taking 45k to Wembley is not an indication. Just from my group we had my sister and her husband who supports Bournemouth came with us, my Aunt in her 80's, Friends brought partners with them who have been to about 5 games since that day. none of them would attend a normal QPR game no matter where we play. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 17:09 - Apr 15 with 1621 views | Northernr |
| Cargiant site on 16:42 - Apr 15 by LazyFan |
Yeah, just like the 45K we got for the play-off final, as it was local for all our fans.
One of the few days I did turn up to watch live, and yes, most of the fans were real QPR supporters, not keyboard warriors like me.
So, we can fill it, since the oppo only needs to bring 5K. And as it's London with a nice new stadium where you're not boxed up like an Ikea chair, then we should get more than that. Oppo fans like a nice weekend in London, as we all know.
I cite the fakes, Reading, who, when they built a new stadium, got an extra 6K average on the gates. And that's Reading! Of course they built in a stupid place and did it all wrong, so its not enough to ....
Build it, and they will come, that's not realistic, it's built big enough to accommodate way more than football games and in the future, not just now. As you cannot rely on football alone anymore, and we only get one chance at this.
Make it super nice; otherwise, in the long run, you end up like Reading, and the chance was wasted.
Events that a proper stadium could accomodate other than Football:
Concerts
NFL
Trade Shows
Boxing
Massive Concert Tours
Circus Acts
Outdoor Summer Theatre/Cinema
Business Conferences
Weddings
Beam backs
And way more.
[Post edited 15 Apr 16:49]
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45,000 people are not coming to watch QPR play Championship matches, and a lot of the people who do already would be wholly put off the experience by having to walk between railway sidings and scrap yards to sit in a largely empty stadium.
The rest of it is largely a pipe dream. London is swimming in concert venues. It already has two NFL venues, one of which was built for the purpose. | | | |
| Cargiant site on 17:10 - Apr 15 with 1612 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Cargiant site on 17:07 - Apr 15 by daveB |
NFL already does Spurs and Wembley, Baseball at West Ham Concerts at all 3 plus Arsenal.
You have the 02, Chelsea as well
Far too much competition for a new QPR stadium to be competing with any of them for those kind of events
If we build a new stadium it needs to be no more than 25k. Taking 45k to Wembley is not an indication. Just from my group we had my sister and her husband who supports Bournemouth came with us, my Aunt in her 80's, Friends brought partners with them who have been to about 5 games since that day. none of them would attend a normal QPR game no matter where we play. |
We've gone to Wembley what once every 40 years? Thats why we took so many last time, as we knew it might not happen again for a while.
I reckon any new stadium should be capped at 30k its more than big enough |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 17:21 - Apr 15 with 1574 views | QPR_Jim |
| Cargiant site on 17:01 - Apr 15 by daveB |
I don't think it's comparable to Man Utd really, of course you'd get the odd corporate gig although with remote working now you get a lot less of those these days and in West London you also have multiple other options including 3 other football grounds. I'm not sure we'd make much from it.
Having a new ground would be nice and of course you could do some things you can't do now such as leave the stadium with feeling in your knees but of all the clubs our size or smaller who have moved, I'm not sure the actual ground move made a massive difference to their finances in a positive way.
League one at the moment has Cardiff, Bolton, Huddersfield, Reading and Rotherham, all moved to shiny new stadiums and and now in half empty stadiums in league one
Even the big clubs like Spurs, the stadium move has restricted what they can do |
Whether we get corporate gigs or boxing matches is a complete mis-direction. It costs us a lot more per person to run LR than a new ground in terms of policing and stewarding and to compound that we have limits on corporate facilities, reduced price tickets for poor views, poor catering options limiting sales etc. We also have limited spare capacity for initiatives such as kids for a quid etc to attract new people to the club. So every matchday there are higher costs and limited opportunities. |  | | |
| Cargiant site on 17:56 - Apr 15 with 1488 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Cargiant site on 16:42 - Apr 15 by LazyFan |
Yeah, just like the 45K we got for the play-off final, as it was local for all our fans.
One of the few days I did turn up to watch live, and yes, most of the fans were real QPR supporters, not keyboard warriors like me.
So, we can fill it, since the oppo only needs to bring 5K. And as it's London with a nice new stadium where you're not boxed up like an Ikea chair, then we should get more than that. Oppo fans like a nice weekend in London, as we all know.
I cite the fakes, Reading, who, when they built a new stadium, got an extra 6K average on the gates. And that's Reading! Of course they built in a stupid place and did it all wrong, so its not enough to ....
Build it, and they will come, that's not realistic, it's built big enough to accommodate way more than football games and in the future, not just now. As you cannot rely on football alone anymore, and we only get one chance at this.
Make it super nice; otherwise, in the long run, you end up like Reading, and the chance was wasted.
Events that a proper stadium could accomodate other than Football:
Concerts
NFL
Trade Shows
Boxing
Massive Concert Tours
Circus Acts
Outdoor Summer Theatre/Cinema
Business Conferences
Weddings
Beam backs
And way more.
[Post edited 15 Apr 16:49]
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Circus acts?
Im really struggling to think of any circus troop that would fill much less use a stadium. Mrs PH has a friend who works for Cirque du Soleil, and they require a covered top for acrobatics etc.
If you're thinking lions, tigers and elephants, that's thankfully on the way out and never got more than several hundred in its prime.
That leaves us with clowns - and we don't need a 50k stadium to watch Zan Celar and Mbengue when he goes off on one - and shooting dwarves. Given we don't fill out with Smyth, Saito, Dembele, and Chair, thinking well get another 30k to watch them score a combined total of say, six, is very optimistic. | |
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| Cargiant site on 17:59 - Apr 15 with 1479 views | RangersDave3 |
You wouldn’t like my sloppy seconds mate! | | | |
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