| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism 16:33 - Oct 29 with 1825 views | bosh67 |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50212951
Absolute cowards. 2 matches behind closed doors (one actually suspended) and a £65,000 fine. UEFA have sunk to an all time low. |  |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 16:47 - Oct 29 with 1787 views | aston_hoop |
UEFA have absolutely bottled that. disgrace. |  |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 16:51 - Oct 29 with 1780 views | stowmarketrange |
I make you right mate.They had the chance to really hammer home how badly they think racism in football is and they chickened out.Its too late to throw them out of this tournament,but why not ban them from entering the next one,including the World Cup?
How will this punishment deter anyone from doing the same thing again? |  | | |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 20:31 - Oct 29 with 1659 views | Stanisgod |
As corrupt as FIFA. Cowards letting off cowards. |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 21:49 - Oct 29 with 1598 views | BrianMcCarthy |
The biggest insult that can be aimed at UEFA is that this sham was expected by all and sundry.
There's no appetite to tackle this. Bulgaria should have started the next campaign with negative points. UEFA won't do that, though. They don't have the guts. Because to do so might set a precedent, and that may return to haunt those powerhouse Nations who have a problem with racism themselves. |  |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 13:29 - Oct 30 with 1488 views | headhoops |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 21:49 - Oct 29 by BrianMcCarthy |
The biggest insult that can be aimed at UEFA is that this sham was expected by all and sundry.
There's no appetite to tackle this. Bulgaria should have started the next campaign with negative points. UEFA won't do that, though. They don't have the guts. Because to do so might set a precedent, and that may return to haunt those powerhouse Nations who have a problem with racism themselves. |
spot on Brian, if you docked points for racism, Italy would never qualify for another tournament again. |  |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 14:01 - Oct 30 with 1458 views | smegma |
Last time we played there in 2011 they were fined £34k for racist chants. For this game, part of the ground was closed for facist chants in the two previous games against Montenegro and Kosovo. Now the fine is doubled. What will it take for UEFA to take serious actions against serial offenders??? And what do UEFA do with the fine money, more crates of Champers and Brandy for their meetings ???
UEFA doing Sweet FA for football. |  | | |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 14:22 - Oct 30 with 1437 views | bosh67 |
Bulgaria fined £65,000 for sustained and repeated racism by UEFA.
BeÅŸiktaÅŸ fined £95,000 for letting a cat get onto the pitch by UEFA.
I don't think the cat did any monkey chants or Nazi salutes?
God forbid we get back into Europe and Jude starts dancing on the pitch at half time.
UEFA are a load of old guff! | |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 15:53 - Oct 30 with 1382 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 13:29 - Oct 30 by headhoops |
spot on Brian, if you docked points for racism, Italy would never qualify for another tournament again. |
True, but I don't know enough about Italy to know if they are trying to tackle it. Or Spain. Or France.
I think that if we are to be fair we should separate incidents of racism by supporters from widespread failure to combat racism by National FA's. The first instance can be tolerated for a while but if we stray into the second territory then points should be deducted until the FA in question responds maturely, effectively and ethically (the fact that Bulgaria weren't docked points leads us to surmise that UEFA are afraid that a precedent would be dangerous if other larger FA's were later to be found just as ineffective/disinterested.
People can say what they like about the many, many incidences of racism in English football but there is an effort to tackle it, firstly with KickItOut and banning orders and recently the surprising (though correct) finding of Big Fat Racist Terry guilty when the courts couldn't match the higher level of proof required. | |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 21:21 - Oct 30 with 1298 views | stainrods_elbow |
The closed door games will also cost the Bulgiarian FA considerable sums, as well as prestige and competitive standing. In my view, however, it's the racist fans who should have action taken against them (in the courts if needed), not the rest of the supporters, the stadium owners, or even necessarily the associations - backed up with UEFA ensuring said associations are doing everything they can to take a lead in extirpating this social evil (the details of which, I appreciate, is where the controversy starts). If people started making money noises in a cinema or a theatre, or presenting any reactions that were offensive to other members of the audience, would people be clamouring for those venues to be closed or its owners driven out of business? (And what about the performance of plays, for example, which contain racist or misogynistic or homophobic content, while we're there? Should these be banned too? And, if not, why not - do they not 'poison' the cultural atmosphere just as readily?) Why, then, should decent supporters be effectively discriminated against because of a few neo-Nazi scumbags, and not allowed to watch their country play, nor the players permitted to perform in front of them (the decent majority, I mean)?
Essentially, my libertarian view would be that crowds have to become self-policing. If you shout racist abuse, you run the high risk of interventions by your fellow-supporters (that might well escalate to violence against your person), players walking off, and anything else that comes down on your head, culturally, legally and politically. In the same context, it's up to stadia staff/stewards/police to identify perpetrators with the help of supporters if needed, and, if these state and/or club representatives enforce laws and/or ground regulations in this domain, as managers of private sporting occasions they can (and most people would argue should) of course do so. In an ideal world, though, anyone could shout anything, and we'd see where that takes us all as a society. In my view, unfortunately, suppressing racism is unlikely to make it go away - it will likely just displace it, or, if anything, make it even more virulent. In 2004 in the Bernabeu, hundreds if not thousands in the Spanish crowd were baying at black English players - because, I'm afraid, a lot of Spanish people are (or at least were) racist, as the editor of one of Spain's leading sports dailies stated at the time. Personally, I think that's utterly horrible for everyone concerned (and not just the players it was directed at), but I still think it's the individuals concerned who need to be exposed and held accountable.
I also wonder where the lines are drawn. For those who agree with the idea that the Bulgarian nation and its sporting orifices should be buried as a footballing entity for the actions of a few of its less attractive people, I presume you are also going to immediately condemn the English FA for failing to act decisively against that section of the Man Utd support that refused (in the teeth of the club's statement) to stop singing about the size of Lukaku's penis through said supporters' unwillingness to deconstruct their neo-colonialist, hyper-sexcualising steroetyping of the black body, and close Old Trafford forthwith. If not, why not? Likewise, the Arizona country and western bar at which Sacha Baron Cohen brilliantly exposed people's willingness to sing along with an anti-Jewish song in 'Borat' should presumably also be closed. And so on, and so on. (I don't have, or want to promote, a 'solution' here; I simply follow a train of thought on the basis of a dominant political logic.)
Finally, John Barnes is one black ex-player who has suggested that 'football is the least racist industry in the country' and takes a different view on racism from what he calls the 'elite black groups' (one which, strikingly, he feels has been suppressed). While Barnes' expressed views in his recent Guardian article raise for me plenty of questions, they also bring home, from the mouth and pen of a cultured and intelligent man, the dangers of presenting an 'orthodoxy' that shuts down critical thinking (or thinking at all). |  |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 21:37 - Oct 30 with 1287 views | stainrods_elbow |
Fascinating - had no idea this was state policy!
But why is blasphemy any less offensive to a believer than racism is against a person of colour? | |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 10:27 - Oct 31 with 1222 views | distortR |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 21:37 - Oct 30 by stainrods_elbow |
Fascinating - had no idea this was state policy!
But why is blasphemy any less offensive to a believer than racism is against a person of colour? |
Religion is a belief, therefore open to debate, albeit I think people should have respect for other people's beliefs.
Colour of skin is a fact. | | | |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 10:59 - Oct 31 with 1192 views | bosh67 |
Just to put the joke that is a suitable financial punishment in perspective again.
Bulgaria fined £64,000 for continued racism whilst already fined for the same offences stretching back 8 years.
BeÅŸiktaÅŸ fined £90,000 for letting a cat run on the pitch.
QPR fined £42,000,000 for overspending on players and salaries. | |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 14:08 - Oct 31 with 1151 views | headhoops |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 10:59 - Oct 31 by bosh67 |
Just to put the joke that is a suitable financial punishment in perspective again.
Bulgaria fined £64,000 for continued racism whilst already fined for the same offences stretching back 8 years.
BeÅŸiktaÅŸ fined £90,000 for letting a cat run on the pitch.
QPR fined £42,000,000 for overspending on players and salaries. |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 14:43 - Oct 31 with 1126 views | Rangers67 |
Liverpool fined £ 200,000 for fielding an ineligible player last season. Its the usual case of bury your head in the sand and hope it goes away. If I was Southgate I would speak to my players before the next game against any team where there is chance of this happening and tell them to leave the field at the first hint of this happening. This needs a radical approach to get it sorted and I think if any of the other international teams or club teams playing in European comps should also express support by refusing to play in any of the countries guilty of this. | | | |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 20:28 - Oct 31 with 1054 views | stainrods_elbow |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 10:27 - Oct 31 by distortR |
Religion is a belief, therefore open to debate, albeit I think people should have respect for other people's beliefs.
Colour of skin is a fact. |
For many people, their religious faith/commitment is as essential a part of their identity - and in some cases even more fundamental - than their race. It's also a liberal prejudice that all of these things are 'debatable'.
Racism is more often than not stupid, ignorant and ugly. But by saying it's more objectionable merely because it's pertains to a bodily fact, you inadvertently put it on the same level as baiting the ginger-haired, short of stature, or bald. Presumably, by your own logic, you would like to see action taking against people who chant about these groups too. | |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 20:49 - Oct 31 with 1041 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 20:28 - Oct 31 by stainrods_elbow |
For many people, their religious faith/commitment is as essential a part of their identity - and in some cases even more fundamental - than their race. It's also a liberal prejudice that all of these things are 'debatable'.
Racism is more often than not stupid, ignorant and ugly. But by saying it's more objectionable merely because it's pertains to a bodily fact, you inadvertently put it on the same level as baiting the ginger-haired, short of stature, or bald. Presumably, by your own logic, you would like to see action taking against people who chant about these groups too. |
"Presumably, by your own logic, you would like to see action taking against people who chant about these groups too."
While it's a fair point that the ginger-haired, short of stature and bald people may be discriminated against I'm not sure we can say that those three issues have ever contributed to wars and mass genocides and led to hundreds of millions of deaths, as racism surely has. | |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 21:23 - Oct 31 with 1014 views | distortR |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 20:28 - Oct 31 by stainrods_elbow |
For many people, their religious faith/commitment is as essential a part of their identity - and in some cases even more fundamental - than their race. It's also a liberal prejudice that all of these things are 'debatable'.
Racism is more often than not stupid, ignorant and ugly. But by saying it's more objectionable merely because it's pertains to a bodily fact, you inadvertently put it on the same level as baiting the ginger-haired, short of stature, or bald. Presumably, by your own logic, you would like to see action taking against people who chant about these groups too. |
questioning imposed realities isn't a liberal prejudice.
But I often envy people their faith.
My wife questions my atheism. | | | |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 22:59 - Oct 31 with 978 views | nix |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 20:49 - Oct 31 by BrianMcCarthy |
"Presumably, by your own logic, you would like to see action taking against people who chant about these groups too."
While it's a fair point that the ginger-haired, short of stature and bald people may be discriminated against I'm not sure we can say that those three issues have ever contributed to wars and mass genocides and led to hundreds of millions of deaths, as racism surely has. |
Absolutely right Brian. Or systematically subjugated and had their human rights removed, as in the US during slavery and then segregation or South African apartheid or British colonialism. It’s just not comparable to be called slap head or ginger nuts, although still unacceptable.
And people’s religious beliefs have to be debatable up to a point, surely, if their beliefs include FGM, for instance, or that gay people should be thrown off buildings. One person’s right to something often involves a trade off of someone else’s rights. So yeah, I do think I and others should have a say and religious or cultural beliefs should not be sacrosanct. |  | | |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 23:19 - Oct 31 with 969 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 22:59 - Oct 31 by nix |
Absolutely right Brian. Or systematically subjugated and had their human rights removed, as in the US during slavery and then segregation or South African apartheid or British colonialism. It’s just not comparable to be called slap head or ginger nuts, although still unacceptable.
And people’s religious beliefs have to be debatable up to a point, surely, if their beliefs include FGM, for instance, or that gay people should be thrown off buildings. One person’s right to something often involves a trade off of someone else’s rights. So yeah, I do think I and others should have a say and religious or cultural beliefs should not be sacrosanct. |
Beautifully put. | |
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| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 21:32 - Nov 1 with 829 views | smegma |
That's sacrilege.
I'll get my own coat thanks. | | | |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 21:34 - Nov 1 with 827 views | smegma |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 21:37 - Oct 30 by stainrods_elbow |
Fascinating - had no idea this was state policy!
But why is blasphemy any less offensive to a believer than racism is against a person of colour? |
Because religions are made up organisations. Skin colour is not made up. | | | |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 22:00 - Nov 1 with 811 views | Match82 |
| UEFA basically let Bulgaria off the hook for sustained racism on 20:28 - Oct 31 by stainrods_elbow |
For many people, their religious faith/commitment is as essential a part of their identity - and in some cases even more fundamental - than their race. It's also a liberal prejudice that all of these things are 'debatable'.
Racism is more often than not stupid, ignorant and ugly. But by saying it's more objectionable merely because it's pertains to a bodily fact, you inadvertently put it on the same level as baiting the ginger-haired, short of stature, or bald. Presumably, by your own logic, you would like to see action taking against people who chant about these groups too. |
You have free will to make a choice about your religious beliefs. |  | | |
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