| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. 18:59 - Oct 17 with 15395 views | 442Dale |
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| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 14:10 - Oct 19 with 1343 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 12:32 - Oct 19 by dingdangblue |
12 extra points is a massive amount but like you say it's not an exact science - still disappointing as generally scoring the 1st goal sees you going onto win or at least not lose. |
I posted a version of this earlier in the season and I still think its telling.
Who scores first in games - neck and neck. More goals in the home games but who scores either us or the opposition first is dead level.
http://www.soccerstats.com/firstgoal.asp?league=england3
The thing that is killing us is when the goals are scored.
Breaking the 90 minutes into 9 x 10 minute intervals across all the league games, we've only won 1 segment (21-30 mins) and lost 2 (31-40 mins & 71-80 mins).
It's the 71 minute onward segment that is killing us which is zero scored and 4 conceeded in that ten minute segment.
League games this season see us having scored three and conceeded seven in the last 20 minutes of games, which when you consider two of the three goals scored were the game against Doncaster, it shows that we have thrown away a lot of points from winning/level positions and in the other 13 games are scored 1 conceeded 7 in the last 20 minutes.
Wigan are the strongest team looking at the data to date, despite not being top but there is a good positive correlation between performance in the last 20 minutes and league position.
That 2nd Northampton goal had 8 Rochdale players in the penalty area - no longer just the defense with problems; this is a team thing.
http://www.soccerstats.com/timing.asp?league=england3 [Post edited 19 Oct 2017 14:54]
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| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 15:22 - Oct 19 with 1246 views | DaleiLama |
| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 07:46 - Oct 19 by DaleFan7 |
Because if not people can't use the usual;
'We're over achieving' line that gets over used all the time or 'Well it was worse when we played in the Jurassic period'
To some people, we might as well just go to League Two now and be grateful we're a football league team. God forbid any expectations. |
I am not being pedantic here, but there is a big difference between expectations and aspirations. We aspire to be a top-half L1 club and achieve promotion. We've more or less done the former since coming up from L2 the last time. It's not inconceivable we could even do the latter sometime and it is the club's stated aim.
To expect anything, even in the broader football world, might perhaps be considered unwise. To expect anything from a club with a churn rate like we have might be considered downright rash. We are never the same squad from one year to the next and of course the manager always tries to improve the squad, but as was pointed out very ably at the end of the last page, it doesn't always come off. As was also pointed out, occasionally the hat temporarily runs out of rabbits. This is evidence with which to temper aspirations.
We're struggling. It's one lean year in a decade largely characterised by attractive football and dalliance with play-off places, collecting some wonderful memories along the way. I think your "happy with L2" club might not have as many members as you think (maybe just Fred and Wilma)? Yes fans have long memories, but a good manager and a decade of success is solid evidence of what we might one day achieve. The point is we have no God given right to achieve. Nor should we expect to. [Post edited 19 Oct 2017 15:24]
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| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 15:39 - Oct 19 with 1223 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 15:22 - Oct 19 by DaleiLama |
I am not being pedantic here, but there is a big difference between expectations and aspirations. We aspire to be a top-half L1 club and achieve promotion. We've more or less done the former since coming up from L2 the last time. It's not inconceivable we could even do the latter sometime and it is the club's stated aim.
To expect anything, even in the broader football world, might perhaps be considered unwise. To expect anything from a club with a churn rate like we have might be considered downright rash. We are never the same squad from one year to the next and of course the manager always tries to improve the squad, but as was pointed out very ably at the end of the last page, it doesn't always come off. As was also pointed out, occasionally the hat temporarily runs out of rabbits. This is evidence with which to temper aspirations.
We're struggling. It's one lean year in a decade largely characterised by attractive football and dalliance with play-off places, collecting some wonderful memories along the way. I think your "happy with L2" club might not have as many members as you think (maybe just Fred and Wilma)? Yes fans have long memories, but a good manager and a decade of success is solid evidence of what we might one day achieve. The point is we have no God given right to achieve. Nor should we expect to. [Post edited 19 Oct 2017 15:24]
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I think some of the "expectation" stuff is bourne out of frustration.
On paper, we should be a third quartile team in League one - somewhere between 13th and 18th.
The logic of the lower end of that expectation is beating the four League 2 teams of last year that came up; and two others which given we finished above 11 last year who did not go down in not inconceivable. Some of those teams will have had a bad year but not all.
My six to finish above as we started the season; Portsmouth, Plymouth, Doncaster, Blackpool, Bury and Oldham.
So far the signs are ok. In that mini-league we have played four Portsmouth (a), Bury (h), Doncaster (h) Blackpool (a) and have 5 points from a possible 12. Mid-table form.
What is frustrating is that we have thrown away points that would make getting to that 50 point marker easier - at least 7 that i can think of easily and further up this thread as many as 12.
A professional team needs to strive to get better; the lean spell will come and go as will the good times.
However we chose to sell Jamie Allen and cash in rather than have him in the squad for six months and that was a choice. Replacing Lund and Mendez-Laing has (theoretically) been done with the replacement of Williams (12) and Done.
We can and must get better and that is not meant as a criticism but more of a "we're making sloppy mistakes, let's pull our socks up."
We know that when it clicks there a lot of good footballers and management in this club but for whatever reason(s) its just not happening. | |
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| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 16:08 - Oct 19 with 1184 views | DaleiLama |
| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 15:39 - Oct 19 by RAFCBLUE |
I think some of the "expectation" stuff is bourne out of frustration.
On paper, we should be a third quartile team in League one - somewhere between 13th and 18th.
The logic of the lower end of that expectation is beating the four League 2 teams of last year that came up; and two others which given we finished above 11 last year who did not go down in not inconceivable. Some of those teams will have had a bad year but not all.
My six to finish above as we started the season; Portsmouth, Plymouth, Doncaster, Blackpool, Bury and Oldham.
So far the signs are ok. In that mini-league we have played four Portsmouth (a), Bury (h), Doncaster (h) Blackpool (a) and have 5 points from a possible 12. Mid-table form.
What is frustrating is that we have thrown away points that would make getting to that 50 point marker easier - at least 7 that i can think of easily and further up this thread as many as 12.
A professional team needs to strive to get better; the lean spell will come and go as will the good times.
However we chose to sell Jamie Allen and cash in rather than have him in the squad for six months and that was a choice. Replacing Lund and Mendez-Laing has (theoretically) been done with the replacement of Williams (12) and Done.
We can and must get better and that is not meant as a criticism but more of a "we're making sloppy mistakes, let's pull our socks up."
We know that when it clicks there a lot of good footballers and management in this club but for whatever reason(s) its just not happening. |
Yep, take your point about frustration - it was just the same last year too.
On top of losing the three you mentioned, Joe Bunney (returning from injury) is not currently the LB that KH said was probably the best in L1, Callum is coming back from a major illness if reports are correct, Ollie was subbed last time out and isn't even currently making the starting 11 suggesting he's "not quite right" and how many games has Raff played? I'm sure there are other reasons it's not happening too, but once you add all these "marginal losses" together, they make a difference.
Also, tbf, I've missed arguably the best two performances of the season, namely Bury (a) and Gillingham (h). But on the evidence I've seen, we are currently a shadow of last year's team in more ways than one. | |
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| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 16:46 - Oct 19 with 1131 views | D_Alien |
| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 15:39 - Oct 19 by RAFCBLUE |
I think some of the "expectation" stuff is bourne out of frustration.
On paper, we should be a third quartile team in League one - somewhere between 13th and 18th.
The logic of the lower end of that expectation is beating the four League 2 teams of last year that came up; and two others which given we finished above 11 last year who did not go down in not inconceivable. Some of those teams will have had a bad year but not all.
My six to finish above as we started the season; Portsmouth, Plymouth, Doncaster, Blackpool, Bury and Oldham.
So far the signs are ok. In that mini-league we have played four Portsmouth (a), Bury (h), Doncaster (h) Blackpool (a) and have 5 points from a possible 12. Mid-table form.
What is frustrating is that we have thrown away points that would make getting to that 50 point marker easier - at least 7 that i can think of easily and further up this thread as many as 12.
A professional team needs to strive to get better; the lean spell will come and go as will the good times.
However we chose to sell Jamie Allen and cash in rather than have him in the squad for six months and that was a choice. Replacing Lund and Mendez-Laing has (theoretically) been done with the replacement of Williams (12) and Done.
We can and must get better and that is not meant as a criticism but more of a "we're making sloppy mistakes, let's pull our socks up."
We know that when it clicks there a lot of good footballers and management in this club but for whatever reason(s) its just not happening. |
"However we chose to sell Jamie Allen and cash in rather than have him in the squad for six months and that was a choice"
The choice is less of a choice than might be thought. The club operates an incredibly successful policy of bringing on young players, with the carrot of a move to a higher division if the right fee is on the table. Whilst we don't have chapter & verse on players contracts (nor should we) it's highly likely there are options for players to do the choosing in those circumstances, not the club. It's been reported that part of Hilly's close season frustration came about through the Allen to Burton deal dragging on, with the player pretty much having decided he wanted the move and his contract allowing him that option, once the fee was settled
We've been critical in the past about Hilly's pleas about expectations, and now we know why he made them. It must've been apparent to him that the scenario we now have would one day come about. IMO he's doing his level best to put things right, with the absolute certainty that the board are with him every single step of the way, even if that includes a backward step or two
[Post edited 19 Oct 2017 16:52]
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| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 17:28 - Oct 19 with 1068 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 23:51 - Oct 18 by 442Dale |
In the grand scheme of things. We know there's potential to be aiming higher, but now and again we might have to get used to a season of struggle at this level. It's unrealistic to expect top ten every season, and that's not to say we won't finish there.
The issue is more around how we are playing rather than the points/position.
Edit: also, we aren't bottom. We are just above the bottom four. And if we had a couple of seasons finishing there, we have to start to realise someone has to finish there. Just because it's us, there's no way we suddenly rip up the current model and start again. [Post edited 18 Oct 2017 23:55]
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I know all the factors such as crowds, facilities,stadium, money etc point to bottom end of league one, but hilly seemed upbeat pre season, and the club seemed to talk our prospects up. Also we have done very well recently. Our performances thus far seem to indicate something is v wrong , an average of 1 goal scored a game is the problem, the defence record is mid table |  |
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| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 17:36 - Oct 19 with 1054 views | 442Dale |
| Match thread: Northampton. Hopefully black socks. on 17:28 - Oct 19 by rochdaleriddler |
I know all the factors such as crowds, facilities,stadium, money etc point to bottom end of league one, but hilly seemed upbeat pre season, and the club seemed to talk our prospects up. Also we have done very well recently. Our performances thus far seem to indicate something is v wrong , an average of 1 goal scored a game is the problem, the defence record is mid table |
I agree that we all, probably including those at the club, thought we'd be doing better than we are but the acceptance is more of a general one, one that now and again we may have a season that sees us not meeting aspirations. If a season of struggle is sporadically included amongst the years when we do really well, so be it. | |
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