| Sign it... on 16:50 - Mar 24 with 1926 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 16:47 - Mar 24 by steofthedale |
And how did the agreement the Civil Servant Olly Robbins negotiated fare when presented to the elected representatives in the House? |
So it won't be presented again? |  |
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| Sign it... on 16:54 - Mar 24 with 1918 views | roccydaleian |
Wow, thanks for that EG. So, just €4.2 BILLION, yes BILLION of errors. No wonder they're not easy to find, but you've done a sterling job in strengthening the position on why the EU shouldn't be trusted. 
Not very good track record in the past either. |  | | |
| Sign it... on 16:57 - Mar 24 with 1910 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Sign it... on 16:46 - Mar 24 by D_Alien |
More ignorance from someone who clearly hasn't actually read what i'd posted prior to his insulting intervention
Go on, just read the posts and try and square them with what you've just posted. Or maybe just give up before you embarrass yourself any further. I sincerely hope your standards are a great deal higher at work. We need people able to scrutinise written text and interpret it correctly to be successful as a country. You're failing on the basics |
Oh my goodness, it’s stage 2 IDS where you assert the other person is embarrassing themselves!!
Quick, take 2 of these stop taking yourself so fooking seriously tablets.
You’re right DAlien. Leaving the EU will be just great. I can feel it in my waters and whatever anyone says will just be embarrassing for them...fook, give me them tablets. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 16:59]
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| Sign it... on 17:01 - Mar 24 with 1896 views | steofthedale |
The auditors seem to indicate that "Revenue was free from material error."
It is the cost reimbursement payments that indicate 4.8% of errors.
I'm no expert, but the unelected European Commission who are responsible for the finances, appear to have clear sight on the revenue streams, but appear less robust when managing reimbursements.
I find little comfort in either this, or the knowledge that for the first time in 2016 the auditors gave a qualified, rather than an adverse opinion. | |
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| Sign it... on 17:04 - Mar 24 with 1888 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 16:54 - Mar 24 by roccydaleian |
Wow, thanks for that EG. So, just €4.2 BILLION, yes BILLION of errors. No wonder they're not easy to find, but you've done a sterling job in strengthening the position on why the EU shouldn't be trusted.
Not very good track record in the past either. |
Regardless of their content, the fact that you came on here, arguing that "audited accounts don't exist", and requesting "someone please point me to..." - something that was number 3 on google when searched, doesn't really elevate you much above the category of being thick as mince does it?
At least now I have pointed you to the thing you couldn't find, you can, and seemingly already have change(ed) your argument to something based on facts (that I have found for you). | |
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| Sign it... on 17:06 - Mar 24 with 1883 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 16:57 - Mar 24 by BigDaveMyCock |
Oh my goodness, it’s stage 2 IDS where you assert the other person is embarrassing themselves!!
Quick, take 2 of these stop taking yourself so fooking seriously tablets.
You’re right DAlien. Leaving the EU will be just great. I can feel it in my waters and whatever anyone says will just be embarrassing for them...fook, give me them tablets. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 16:59]
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How sad
You used to be mildly amusing on occasion, but the personal tirade you've launched against me in this thread is simply desperate, and It's there for all to see
I've responded to you with some restraint, and tried to give you the opportunity to climb down. It's up to you to take it |  |
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| Sign it... on 17:26 - Mar 24 with 1852 views | roccydaleian |
| Sign it... on 17:04 - Mar 24 by EllGazzell |
Regardless of their content, the fact that you came on here, arguing that "audited accounts don't exist", and requesting "someone please point me to..." - something that was number 3 on google when searched, doesn't really elevate you much above the category of being thick as mince does it?
At least now I have pointed you to the thing you couldn't find, you can, and seemingly already have change(ed) your argument to something based on facts (that I have found for you). |
And like I said, I thank you for it, I couldn't find them and there they were all the time, and it shows how the EU shouldn't be trusted.
Brilliant stuff tbf. | | | |
| Sign it... on 18:05 - Mar 24 with 1818 views | tony_roch975 |
| Sign it... on 15:29 - Mar 24 by steofthedale |
Here's the difference. Civil servants DO NOT determine the legislative agenda in the UK.
Parties produce a manifesto describing their intentions should they form a majority following a general election.
Even so , there is scope for private member's bills to be included within the parliamentary session.
Tell me, whose manifesto proposed the Amsterdam, Lisbon, Nice or Maarstricht treaties? Which MEPs proposed any EU legislation to their electorate prior to them taking their European seat?
As regards heads of state, whilst unelected and well paid, the Queen DOES NOT interfere in the elected representatives' legislative agenda. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 15:51]
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Exactly, both systems are full of democratic deficits - for every example of a failing in the EEC there is one in our system. The Commission is un-elected but the European Parliament can force it to resign; our House of Lords is not only un-elected but the elected House of Commons can't force it to resign. Our Head of State does more than interfere - s/he has to agree all laws and can & does refuse.
So the decision to Leave or Remain can't be based on analysing which system is more 'democratic'. Seems to be more to do with (DAlien's) much maligned gut feeling than any factual analysis - much like a fans' post-match 'analysis', and probably why it fosters such anger. | |
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| Sign it... on 18:25 - Mar 24 with 1796 views | Ninco |
I think a lot of the people who voted leave didn't fully understand what the were voting for and just assumed that we would stop immigration, and Hey Presto, there would suddenly be loads of jobs for every British person, but it was never going to work like that.
When people say 'they are taking our jobs', anyone can study for 7 years to become a Doctor, so if immigrants are prepared to study and you aren't, you can't really complain that they are taking your job as you never had the qualifications for it. Someone has to keep our NHS going.
Also, you give up a third of your wages in tax and National Insurance. Without immigration, the Government will not have the funds to run the country. Where do you think they will get that extra money from? They will just increase tax for everyone else. It will get to the stage where you pay so much tax that you can barely afford to live. The High Street will collapse as nobody will have the money to spend in shops, so more people will be out of work.
They don't do immigration for fun, they do it because we need it. Enjoy your holidays in a foreign country, and I hope that the people you don't want in our country make you feel welcome as you spend your stay in theirs. | | | |
| Sign it... on 18:48 - Mar 24 with 1772 views | roccydaleian |
| Sign it... on 18:25 - Mar 24 by Ninco |
I think a lot of the people who voted leave didn't fully understand what the were voting for and just assumed that we would stop immigration, and Hey Presto, there would suddenly be loads of jobs for every British person, but it was never going to work like that.
When people say 'they are taking our jobs', anyone can study for 7 years to become a Doctor, so if immigrants are prepared to study and you aren't, you can't really complain that they are taking your job as you never had the qualifications for it. Someone has to keep our NHS going.
Also, you give up a third of your wages in tax and National Insurance. Without immigration, the Government will not have the funds to run the country. Where do you think they will get that extra money from? They will just increase tax for everyone else. It will get to the stage where you pay so much tax that you can barely afford to live. The High Street will collapse as nobody will have the money to spend in shops, so more people will be out of work.
They don't do immigration for fun, they do it because we need it. Enjoy your holidays in a foreign country, and I hope that the people you don't want in our country make you feel welcome as you spend your stay in theirs. |
I'm sorry but totally disagree and that is the type of rubbish that is spouted to label Brexiteers racists and xenophobes. All we want is the UK government to have control over its immigration policies and numbers. We all know and want controlled immigration, it's vital to the economy, the health service for example would be crippled without hard working immigrants.
It's obvious on all the pages on this topic there are far more concerns than immigration. | | | |
| Sign it... on 18:53 - Mar 24 with 1761 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 18:48 - Mar 24 by roccydaleian |
I'm sorry but totally disagree and that is the type of rubbish that is spouted to label Brexiteers racists and xenophobes. All we want is the UK government to have control over its immigration policies and numbers. We all know and want controlled immigration, it's vital to the economy, the health service for example would be crippled without hard working immigrants.
It's obvious on all the pages on this topic there are far more concerns than immigration. |
I also don't think Brexiteers were all racists and xenophobes, I think some of them were thick bastards who couldn't be bothered to do any research and voted based on hearsay and rumour. | |
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| Sign it... on 19:03 - Mar 24 with 1741 views | D_Alien |
| Sign it... on 18:05 - Mar 24 by tony_roch975 |
Exactly, both systems are full of democratic deficits - for every example of a failing in the EEC there is one in our system. The Commission is un-elected but the European Parliament can force it to resign; our House of Lords is not only un-elected but the elected House of Commons can't force it to resign. Our Head of State does more than interfere - s/he has to agree all laws and can & does refuse.
So the decision to Leave or Remain can't be based on analysing which system is more 'democratic'. Seems to be more to do with (DAlien's) much maligned gut feeling than any factual analysis - much like a fans' post-match 'analysis', and probably why it fosters such anger. |
I think whatever emerges from this entire episode, our parliamentary system has been given a massive shaking - which it needed - and has been found wanting. Whatever the outcome, i hope this allows some serious and cool-headed analysis of what needs to change to make it fit for purpose
It's something that's evolved over many centuries but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be further reformed - it's been a strength (an unwritten constitution which can withstand the occasional testing) but also a weakness in the types of shocks it's now being subjected to
An example of this is the role of the Speaker (commenced 1377) which allows for him or her to quote ancient precedent on one occasion but on another state that precedents are there to be broken. And as you say, the House of Lords... | |
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| Sign it... on 19:04 - Mar 24 with 1736 views | steofthedale |
| Sign it... on 18:05 - Mar 24 by tony_roch975 |
Exactly, both systems are full of democratic deficits - for every example of a failing in the EEC there is one in our system. The Commission is un-elected but the European Parliament can force it to resign; our House of Lords is not only un-elected but the elected House of Commons can't force it to resign. Our Head of State does more than interfere - s/he has to agree all laws and can & does refuse.
So the decision to Leave or Remain can't be based on analysing which system is more 'democratic'. Seems to be more to do with (DAlien's) much maligned gut feeling than any factual analysis - much like a fans' post-match 'analysis', and probably why it fosters such anger. |
Many thanks for agreeing that the EU is undemocratic.
It seems by reference to shortcomings in our system you agree that such practice is wrong.
In the UK such instances are infrequent and there is a Parliament that holds the executive accountable. By design, these failures are the very entrenched means by which the EU is structured. By your own logic we appear in agreement that it is undemocratic to have unelected, civil servants deciding policy.
In the UK, Parliament has the final say on policy , even those improperly influenced by the civil service. In the EU all policy is determined by the civil servants and the MEPs graciously permitted to only pass comment.
Many dislike the monarchy in the UK. It is entirely possible that at some future date this institution may be dissolved at the behest of UK citizens.
Tell me, does anyone living under the EU's duristriction ever have a hope of removing the unelected elite that rule and dictate EU policy and treaties?
And of course the most democratic system of all allowed the electorate to state clearly whether they wish to "leave" or "remain".....
[Post edited 24 Mar 2019 19:10]
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| Sign it... on 19:11 - Mar 24 with 1715 views | roccydaleian |
| Sign it... on 18:53 - Mar 24 by EllGazzell |
I also don't think Brexiteers were all racists and xenophobes, I think some of them were thick bastards who couldn't be bothered to do any research and voted based on hearsay and rumour. |
And proved right by your fabulous research, that the EU lose taxpayers money for fun.
Now as for being a thick bastard, that's quite funny, have you ever tried to be a stand up comedian?
By the way, before you left our shores, how did your "master plan" go? Did you manage to fleece anyone? | | | |
| Sign it... on 19:37 - Mar 24 with 1670 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 19:11 - Mar 24 by roccydaleian |
And proved right by your fabulous research, that the EU lose taxpayers money for fun.
Now as for being a thick bastard, that's quite funny, have you ever tried to be a stand up comedian?
By the way, before you left our shores, how did your "master plan" go? Did you manage to fleece anyone? |
You taking umbrage to my comment gives cause to presume that you did actually vote to leave based on hearsay and rumour? Kinda makes you wonder if there should be some kind of test before being allowed to vote, doesn't it?
In terms of what I did before I moved to Czech Paradise, there's very few on here who know me from those times and you're not one of them, so what you think you know about me is at a similar level to your knowledge of the EU. | |
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| Sign it... on 19:43 - Mar 24 with 1661 views | roccydaleian |
| Sign it... on 19:37 - Mar 24 by EllGazzell |
You taking umbrage to my comment gives cause to presume that you did actually vote to leave based on hearsay and rumour? Kinda makes you wonder if there should be some kind of test before being allowed to vote, doesn't it?
In terms of what I did before I moved to Czech Paradise, there's very few on here who know me from those times and you're not one of them, so what you think you know about me is at a similar level to your knowledge of the EU. |
I take umbrage being labelled a thick bastard, by someone who from all accounts is about as honest as the EU accounting.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2019 19:55]
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| Sign it... on 20:00 - Mar 24 with 1637 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 19:43 - Mar 24 by roccydaleian |
I take umbrage being labelled a thick bastard, by someone who from all accounts is about as honest as the EU accounting.
[Post edited 24 Mar 2019 19:55]
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Are you on something? If you can't stay on topic or it's too challenging for you then maybe you shouldn't partake.
Try to keep your focus on what's being discussed. | |
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| Sign it... on 20:04 - Mar 24 with 1619 views | tony_roch975 |
| Sign it... on 19:04 - Mar 24 by steofthedale |
Many thanks for agreeing that the EU is undemocratic.
It seems by reference to shortcomings in our system you agree that such practice is wrong.
In the UK such instances are infrequent and there is a Parliament that holds the executive accountable. By design, these failures are the very entrenched means by which the EU is structured. By your own logic we appear in agreement that it is undemocratic to have unelected, civil servants deciding policy.
In the UK, Parliament has the final say on policy , even those improperly influenced by the civil service. In the EU all policy is determined by the civil servants and the MEPs graciously permitted to only pass comment.
Many dislike the monarchy in the UK. It is entirely possible that at some future date this institution may be dissolved at the behest of UK citizens.
Tell me, does anyone living under the EU's duristriction ever have a hope of removing the unelected elite that rule and dictate EU policy and treaties?
And of course the most democratic system of all allowed the electorate to state clearly whether they wish to "leave" or "remain".....
[Post edited 24 Mar 2019 19:10]
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But I didn't say either was undemocratic. I said both the UK & EU have anomalies & weaknesses in their democracy. Wishing for a clear all or nothing judgement is tempting but, like most of life, the big decisions are more nuanced. An electoral system which ensured UKIP (in 2015) required more than 100 times as many votes for its lone elected MP than the Conservatives did for each of theirs is certainly open to criticism. EU Civil Servants don't make laws, they draft suggestions - the European Parliament has to agree; and It was the EU which wrote Article 50 - try removing the un-elected Head of State in 'the most democratic system of all' and you'll be tried for treason. | |
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| Sign it... on 20:21 - Mar 24 with 1585 views | roccydaleian |
| Sign it... on 20:00 - Mar 24 by EllGazzell |
Are you on something? If you can't stay on topic or it's too challenging for you then maybe you shouldn't partake.
Try to keep your focus on what's being discussed. |
I was and have no problem with it, but if you start hurling personal abuse at someone, you will get it back. I know you think you're a cut above, but you're not. Think what you've done today, you've done my research for me, posted it , and shown everyone how the EU loses BILLIONS of tax payers money. Once again I thank you.  | | | |
| Sign it... on 20:29 - Mar 24 with 1576 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 20:21 - Mar 24 by roccydaleian |
I was and have no problem with it, but if you start hurling personal abuse at someone, you will get it back. I know you think you're a cut above, but you're not. Think what you've done today, you've done my research for me, posted it , and shown everyone how the EU loses BILLIONS of tax payers money. Once again I thank you. |
Personal abuse?? When?? You tell me when I hurled abuse at you? | |
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| Sign it... on 20:42 - Mar 24 with 1549 views | roccydaleian |
| Sign it... on 20:29 - Mar 24 by EllGazzell |
Personal abuse?? When?? You tell me when I hurled abuse at you? |
doesn't really elevate you much above the category of being thick as mince does it?
And the thick bastard comment was quite obviously aimed at me as well.
Tbh I'm not bothered about personal abuse, I can cope easily enough. But I will give it back. | | | |
| Sign it... on 20:52 - Mar 24 with 1530 views | steofthedale |
| Sign it... on 20:04 - Mar 24 by tony_roch975 |
But I didn't say either was undemocratic. I said both the UK & EU have anomalies & weaknesses in their democracy. Wishing for a clear all or nothing judgement is tempting but, like most of life, the big decisions are more nuanced. An electoral system which ensured UKIP (in 2015) required more than 100 times as many votes for its lone elected MP than the Conservatives did for each of theirs is certainly open to criticism. EU Civil Servants don't make laws, they draft suggestions - the European Parliament has to agree; and It was the EU which wrote Article 50 - try removing the un-elected Head of State in 'the most democratic system of all' and you'll be tried for treason. |
The main difference is that the " anomolies" in the EU are by design and inherent in their structure and procedures.
Not much nuance in "leave " or "remain". Nor, (with almost 500 MPs having triggered article 50), leaving with an agreement or without.
There are many Republicans in the UK. To my knowledge none are on trial for treason. | |
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| Sign it... on 20:54 - Mar 24 with 1524 views | EllGazzell |
| Sign it... on 20:42 - Mar 24 by roccydaleian |
doesn't really elevate you much above the category of being thick as mince does it?
And the thick bastard comment was quite obviously aimed at me as well.
Tbh I'm not bothered about personal abuse, I can cope easily enough. But I will give it back. |
Thick as mince is hardly abuse is it. As for you categorising yourself as a "thick bastard", that's your problem. Good job you can take it, as you seem to take every opportunity to apply negative descriptions to yourself - a bit of a snowflake if you ask me. | |
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| Sign it... on 21:15 - Mar 24 with 1485 views | kiwidale |
| Sign it... on 20:54 - Mar 24 by EllGazzell |
Thick as mince is hardly abuse is it. As for you categorising yourself as a "thick bastard", that's your problem. Good job you can take it, as you seem to take every opportunity to apply negative descriptions to yourself - a bit of a snowflake if you ask me. |
Just to clarify EllG was you're thick bastard comment wasn't abuse or a compliment? | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Sign it... on 21:17 - Mar 24 with 1480 views | roccydaleian |
| Sign it... on 20:54 - Mar 24 by EllGazzell |
Thick as mince is hardly abuse is it. As for you categorising yourself as a "thick bastard", that's your problem. Good job you can take it, as you seem to take every opportunity to apply negative descriptions to yourself - a bit of a snowflake if you ask me. |
Aw bless you just can't help yourself. I suppose being a snowflake is better than say being a robbing cowboy builder for example. I suppose it's not nice planning to take merchandise of business's and do one without paying them. Not that I know anyone like that, mind. | | | |
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