| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale 16:40 - Oct 30 with 17628 views | RochdaleAFC.com |
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| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 14:26 - Nov 2 with 1065 views | 49thseason |
Having stsrted to write 3 posts in the last 48 hours and scrapped them all in the hope that time would heal the wound, I can honestly say its not working...
I have no idea how a club can get into the position where over a third of the players are injured. A club that has gone from playing an identifiable system to nothing recognisable as a system.. players who look less like professional footballers than lads playing in the local pub leagues and much less interested in the outcome of games.
Its a complete shambles, I said Watson deserved at least 10 games when the early criticism started, and things did indeed improve, but as we move towards halfway, its hard to see where the, now urgently-needed, improvement is coming from, and worse, I dont really see a solution...Sack the manager, then what? What self- respecting manager would want anything to do with this squad?
Teams are built on spirit, enthusiasm, talent , experience and endeavour, all seemingly lacking, but who assembled this group? What were they thinking? The board said they wanted " technical" players, all well and good until you realise that this is Rochdale and you are going to play most of the season on pitches and in weather that do not lend themselves to " technical" intricate football. Sometimes you just have to dig in and plough on.
EFL2 is the land of giants , six foot, 13,14 stone players are the opposition, you either match them for size , physicallity and athleticism or they run over you, "technical" or not..
The initial poor start was monentarily stalled by the arrival of a 6 foot 6 inch centre half.. it was a clue to what was required....but he cant do anything alone, he needs a team around him and thats the crux of the problem.. we are defensively a wet paper bag.
This team has no spine objectively and metaphorically, EFL2 requires a big target man, a poacher playing off him and a winger providing crosses , ( not 5 wingers and no target). It needs a midfield General, someone who understands how to start attacks and how to stop them. And it needs defenders who know they have to stop crosses, put their head in where it hurts, and mark their man, if neccessary literally. It also needs a keeper who catches crosses, shouts at his defenders and doesn't play silly buggers..., as long as the ball is in the opponents half they won't be bothering him...
You can't just let your man run free and just stand still watching him score.. yes Mr Sherring I am looking at you, or stand 5 yards off him and then let him just run past you..football is a contact sport, make some contact! .
The only thing that has really become apparent is that if a decisionof some sort isnt made quickly, we will end up back in the National League next season. My plan would be a January clear out and rebuld the spine together with a new game plan based on nicking points wherever possible, we know what the target is ..50+ points .. lets set up to do that now with what we have , do some business in January and pray it's enough... Whatever the original plan was, it simply has not survived first contact with the enemy and has to change quickly... And if Watson can't change we will have to find someone who can...!! |  | | |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 17:12 - Nov 2 with 728 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 14:26 - Nov 2 by 49thseason |
Having stsrted to write 3 posts in the last 48 hours and scrapped them all in the hope that time would heal the wound, I can honestly say its not working...
I have no idea how a club can get into the position where over a third of the players are injured. A club that has gone from playing an identifiable system to nothing recognisable as a system.. players who look less like professional footballers than lads playing in the local pub leagues and much less interested in the outcome of games.
Its a complete shambles, I said Watson deserved at least 10 games when the early criticism started, and things did indeed improve, but as we move towards halfway, its hard to see where the, now urgently-needed, improvement is coming from, and worse, I dont really see a solution...Sack the manager, then what? What self- respecting manager would want anything to do with this squad?
Teams are built on spirit, enthusiasm, talent , experience and endeavour, all seemingly lacking, but who assembled this group? What were they thinking? The board said they wanted " technical" players, all well and good until you realise that this is Rochdale and you are going to play most of the season on pitches and in weather that do not lend themselves to " technical" intricate football. Sometimes you just have to dig in and plough on.
EFL2 is the land of giants , six foot, 13,14 stone players are the opposition, you either match them for size , physicallity and athleticism or they run over you, "technical" or not..
The initial poor start was monentarily stalled by the arrival of a 6 foot 6 inch centre half.. it was a clue to what was required....but he cant do anything alone, he needs a team around him and thats the crux of the problem.. we are defensively a wet paper bag.
This team has no spine objectively and metaphorically, EFL2 requires a big target man, a poacher playing off him and a winger providing crosses , ( not 5 wingers and no target). It needs a midfield General, someone who understands how to start attacks and how to stop them. And it needs defenders who know they have to stop crosses, put their head in where it hurts, and mark their man, if neccessary literally. It also needs a keeper who catches crosses, shouts at his defenders and doesn't play silly buggers..., as long as the ball is in the opponents half they won't be bothering him...
You can't just let your man run free and just stand still watching him score.. yes Mr Sherring I am looking at you, or stand 5 yards off him and then let him just run past you..football is a contact sport, make some contact! .
The only thing that has really become apparent is that if a decisionof some sort isnt made quickly, we will end up back in the National League next season. My plan would be a January clear out and rebuld the spine together with a new game plan based on nicking points wherever possible, we know what the target is ..50+ points .. lets set up to do that now with what we have , do some business in January and pray it's enough... Whatever the original plan was, it simply has not survived first contact with the enemy and has to change quickly... And if Watson can't change we will have to find someone who can...!! |
So would you play a 4-2-4?
Wouldn’t that leave us just as exposed across the pitch as we are at present?
Totally disagree about the pitch. Our pitch is good and we have played perfectly good “technical” football on it previously. The problem has been about controlling games. Making them into more of a “battle” is not the answer. We have to keep the football in a controlled manner, adding further chaos will leave us even worse off. |  |
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| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 19:54 - Nov 2 with 496 views | isitme |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 17:12 - Nov 2 by 442Dale |
So would you play a 4-2-4?
Wouldn’t that leave us just as exposed across the pitch as we are at present?
Totally disagree about the pitch. Our pitch is good and we have played perfectly good “technical” football on it previously. The problem has been about controlling games. Making them into more of a “battle” is not the answer. We have to keep the football in a controlled manner, adding further chaos will leave us even worse off. |
I suppose it all comes down to good old 'football philosophies'. Currently we are trying to play with two high wide players which is leaving us wide open in midfield and the lack of an actual number ten also adds to the problems. In general play the space in between the players is too large, which makes passes more challenging and leaves up exposed in transition. We do not have the players with the athletic profile in midfield or at centre back to cover such distances.
Under McNulty ball when a player got the ball it always looked like they knew who was on for a pass and usually there was an easy option that moved the ball. It worked for the players we had and gave us much more control. We are just far too open. I would look at going back to a 343 formation. You could play the following:
Wilson, Flint, Beckwith
Tasker, GIlmour, Adeeko, Hannant
Heyes, Brown, Middleton
Heyes has had success in the wider forward position and Middleton could also play it. Another elephant in the room is Waller who has been poor. Do I think another manager could get a better tune out of the players available? I am not sure.
If Watson does get to January and the injuries clear up he could bring in another striker and look to change the profile of the centre of the park or play with Pettit, Gilmour and East? I am still unsure about the centre backs. Flint made a good initial impact but his limitations are starting to get found out.
Would the following be a decent team?
Ramming
Tasker
?
?
Beckwith
Hayes
Pettit
Gilmour
East
Middleton
Brown |  | | |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 20:06 - Nov 2 with 450 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 19:54 - Nov 2 by isitme |
I suppose it all comes down to good old 'football philosophies'. Currently we are trying to play with two high wide players which is leaving us wide open in midfield and the lack of an actual number ten also adds to the problems. In general play the space in between the players is too large, which makes passes more challenging and leaves up exposed in transition. We do not have the players with the athletic profile in midfield or at centre back to cover such distances.
Under McNulty ball when a player got the ball it always looked like they knew who was on for a pass and usually there was an easy option that moved the ball. It worked for the players we had and gave us much more control. We are just far too open. I would look at going back to a 343 formation. You could play the following:
Wilson, Flint, Beckwith
Tasker, GIlmour, Adeeko, Hannant
Heyes, Brown, Middleton
Heyes has had success in the wider forward position and Middleton could also play it. Another elephant in the room is Waller who has been poor. Do I think another manager could get a better tune out of the players available? I am not sure.
If Watson does get to January and the injuries clear up he could bring in another striker and look to change the profile of the centre of the park or play with Pettit, Gilmour and East? I am still unsure about the centre backs. Flint made a good initial impact but his limitations are starting to get found out.
Would the following be a decent team?
Ramming
Tasker
?
?
Beckwith
Hayes
Pettit
Gilmour
East
Middleton
Brown |
You make a good point about the wingers being able to play as wide 10s, they can still play with wingbacks.
Longer term would look to get a midfield three, however we set up around them and the Gilmour, East and Pettit would be preferred. Adeeko has done ok, but is he really any better than the three mentioned?
At the back, again when injuries sort themselves out, we could have Tasker in the Gordon role and the rest being those we know well - TAR and Hannant as wingbacks, EEL central and Beckwith LCB. It’s not perfect, but we’d know they are used to keeping the ball and eliminating the distances that are causing so many issues. Flint may do better in that central role too, because the fear around him getting exposed by movement within the current formation is starting to become evident. | |
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| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 20:15 - Nov 2 with 421 views | isitme |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 20:06 - Nov 2 by 442Dale |
You make a good point about the wingers being able to play as wide 10s, they can still play with wingbacks.
Longer term would look to get a midfield three, however we set up around them and the Gilmour, East and Pettit would be preferred. Adeeko has done ok, but is he really any better than the three mentioned?
At the back, again when injuries sort themselves out, we could have Tasker in the Gordon role and the rest being those we know well - TAR and Hannant as wingbacks, EEL central and Beckwith LCB. It’s not perfect, but we’d know they are used to keeping the ball and eliminating the distances that are causing so many issues. Flint may do better in that central role too, because the fear around him getting exposed by movement within the current formation is starting to become evident. |
I expected Adeeko to be a bit more athletic than he is, especially based on the comments when we signed him. Technically he is no great shakes neither and by default we have ended up with two 'move' midfielders and no really quality passer. Francis is better technically but cannot cover the ground, especially in a two. If he sits as one of a three and does not get pressed he is okay, but that very rarely happens. If Bilongo ever stays fit he could be an option at left wing back. If Jim had stayed both wing backs were positions I would have been looking to strengthen.
It also goes to show how good a player Gordon became. It was no surprise that he has made a good start in League One. [Post edited 2 Nov 20:18]
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| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 20:34 - Nov 2 with 372 views | TVOS1907 |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 14:26 - Nov 2 by 49thseason |
Having stsrted to write 3 posts in the last 48 hours and scrapped them all in the hope that time would heal the wound, I can honestly say its not working...
I have no idea how a club can get into the position where over a third of the players are injured. A club that has gone from playing an identifiable system to nothing recognisable as a system.. players who look less like professional footballers than lads playing in the local pub leagues and much less interested in the outcome of games.
Its a complete shambles, I said Watson deserved at least 10 games when the early criticism started, and things did indeed improve, but as we move towards halfway, its hard to see where the, now urgently-needed, improvement is coming from, and worse, I dont really see a solution...Sack the manager, then what? What self- respecting manager would want anything to do with this squad?
Teams are built on spirit, enthusiasm, talent , experience and endeavour, all seemingly lacking, but who assembled this group? What were they thinking? The board said they wanted " technical" players, all well and good until you realise that this is Rochdale and you are going to play most of the season on pitches and in weather that do not lend themselves to " technical" intricate football. Sometimes you just have to dig in and plough on.
EFL2 is the land of giants , six foot, 13,14 stone players are the opposition, you either match them for size , physicallity and athleticism or they run over you, "technical" or not..
The initial poor start was monentarily stalled by the arrival of a 6 foot 6 inch centre half.. it was a clue to what was required....but he cant do anything alone, he needs a team around him and thats the crux of the problem.. we are defensively a wet paper bag.
This team has no spine objectively and metaphorically, EFL2 requires a big target man, a poacher playing off him and a winger providing crosses , ( not 5 wingers and no target). It needs a midfield General, someone who understands how to start attacks and how to stop them. And it needs defenders who know they have to stop crosses, put their head in where it hurts, and mark their man, if neccessary literally. It also needs a keeper who catches crosses, shouts at his defenders and doesn't play silly buggers..., as long as the ball is in the opponents half they won't be bothering him...
You can't just let your man run free and just stand still watching him score.. yes Mr Sherring I am looking at you, or stand 5 yards off him and then let him just run past you..football is a contact sport, make some contact! .
The only thing that has really become apparent is that if a decisionof some sort isnt made quickly, we will end up back in the National League next season. My plan would be a January clear out and rebuld the spine together with a new game plan based on nicking points wherever possible, we know what the target is ..50+ points .. lets set up to do that now with what we have , do some business in January and pray it's enough... Whatever the original plan was, it simply has not survived first contact with the enemy and has to change quickly... And if Watson can't change we will have to find someone who can...!! |
"... you are going to play most of the season on pitches and in weather that do not lend themselves to " technical" intricate football.
"EFL2 is the land of giants , six foot, 13,14 stone players are the opposition."
It's not 1985 anymore, you know!
The pitches this season have so far been excellent, including our own, while I can't recall any of the teams who have beaten us having a plethora of 'giants' in their teams.
Granted, it might rain a bit more now. |  |
| Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes. |
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| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 21:01 - Nov 2 with 306 views | 49thseason |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 17:12 - Nov 2 by 442Dale |
So would you play a 4-2-4?
Wouldn’t that leave us just as exposed across the pitch as we are at present?
Totally disagree about the pitch. Our pitch is good and we have played perfectly good “technical” football on it previously. The problem has been about controlling games. Making them into more of a “battle” is not the answer. We have to keep the football in a controlled manner, adding further chaos will leave us even worse off. |
To be more clear I am saying there will be at least 23 games on other pitches as well as our own which may or not be as good as ours and in weather which in winter will undoubtedly be awful on many occasions in Rochdale and at other venues....
The Accrington match actually showed us that whilst our pitch drains well and hasn't cut up particularly , it does seem become very slick, which is a feature of the type of surface, and will cause problems for wingers and players who have to turn quickly or make a well-weighted pass. Equally a delicate first touch also becomes very difficult...
Accrington played direct simple football, often missing out midfield and passing the ball 30% less than we did, whilst concentrating on putting the ball into our penalty area as often as possible... ..26 shots to 5...with 10 - 1 on target.
For balance, the stats for the Port Vale game were quite even in just about every measurable area but they capitalised on what from the highlights looks like some very poor defending. | | | |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 21:13 - Nov 2 with 285 views | 442Dale |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 21:01 - Nov 2 by 49thseason |
To be more clear I am saying there will be at least 23 games on other pitches as well as our own which may or not be as good as ours and in weather which in winter will undoubtedly be awful on many occasions in Rochdale and at other venues....
The Accrington match actually showed us that whilst our pitch drains well and hasn't cut up particularly , it does seem become very slick, which is a feature of the type of surface, and will cause problems for wingers and players who have to turn quickly or make a well-weighted pass. Equally a delicate first touch also becomes very difficult...
Accrington played direct simple football, often missing out midfield and passing the ball 30% less than we did, whilst concentrating on putting the ball into our penalty area as often as possible... ..26 shots to 5...with 10 - 1 on target.
For balance, the stats for the Port Vale game were quite even in just about every measurable area but they capitalised on what from the highlights looks like some very poor defending. |
Pitches: we played on plenty of pitches last season too. We continued to play our game. That doesn’t mean you can’t mix it up (see Gateshead away) but you have to stick to principles to get buy in from a squad.
Accrington played with their wingbacks high. Tutonda and his counterpart on the other flank were basically playing as wingers. Similar to how we’d set up last season.
They had three players in the middle of the park though, meaning there were options on for their back three (see their second goal). Edit: yes they had less possession but when they were well structured when they didn’t have it. It was only 16% less than Dale though, not 30.
On the first two questions, would you advocate a 4-2-4 with the poacher around the target man and losing even more control than the little we have at present?
When we have the ball, we won’t concede. Again, as seen last season. The minute we let the opposition have it we are in trouble at the moment. [Post edited 2 Nov 21:17]
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| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 23:55 - Nov 2 with 61 views | dingdangblue |
| Refwatch - Port Vale v Rochdale on 14:26 - Nov 2 by 49thseason |
Having stsrted to write 3 posts in the last 48 hours and scrapped them all in the hope that time would heal the wound, I can honestly say its not working...
I have no idea how a club can get into the position where over a third of the players are injured. A club that has gone from playing an identifiable system to nothing recognisable as a system.. players who look less like professional footballers than lads playing in the local pub leagues and much less interested in the outcome of games.
Its a complete shambles, I said Watson deserved at least 10 games when the early criticism started, and things did indeed improve, but as we move towards halfway, its hard to see where the, now urgently-needed, improvement is coming from, and worse, I dont really see a solution...Sack the manager, then what? What self- respecting manager would want anything to do with this squad?
Teams are built on spirit, enthusiasm, talent , experience and endeavour, all seemingly lacking, but who assembled this group? What were they thinking? The board said they wanted " technical" players, all well and good until you realise that this is Rochdale and you are going to play most of the season on pitches and in weather that do not lend themselves to " technical" intricate football. Sometimes you just have to dig in and plough on.
EFL2 is the land of giants , six foot, 13,14 stone players are the opposition, you either match them for size , physicallity and athleticism or they run over you, "technical" or not..
The initial poor start was monentarily stalled by the arrival of a 6 foot 6 inch centre half.. it was a clue to what was required....but he cant do anything alone, he needs a team around him and thats the crux of the problem.. we are defensively a wet paper bag.
This team has no spine objectively and metaphorically, EFL2 requires a big target man, a poacher playing off him and a winger providing crosses , ( not 5 wingers and no target). It needs a midfield General, someone who understands how to start attacks and how to stop them. And it needs defenders who know they have to stop crosses, put their head in where it hurts, and mark their man, if neccessary literally. It also needs a keeper who catches crosses, shouts at his defenders and doesn't play silly buggers..., as long as the ball is in the opponents half they won't be bothering him...
You can't just let your man run free and just stand still watching him score.. yes Mr Sherring I am looking at you, or stand 5 yards off him and then let him just run past you..football is a contact sport, make some contact! .
The only thing that has really become apparent is that if a decisionof some sort isnt made quickly, we will end up back in the National League next season. My plan would be a January clear out and rebuld the spine together with a new game plan based on nicking points wherever possible, we know what the target is ..50+ points .. lets set up to do that now with what we have , do some business in January and pray it's enough... Whatever the original plan was, it simply has not survived first contact with the enemy and has to change quickly... And if Watson can't change we will have to find someone who can...!! |
I honestly don't remember the board stating they wanted 'technical players' for the jump upto League 2. I remember Simon Gauge at the forum saying we needed a different profile of player in League 2 but it was more athletic,physical I'm sure he said. We haven't got it though! |  |
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