| Chairman's Christmas Message on 15:52 - Dec 23 with 6814 views | HullDale |
Agree, lots to digest.
A ~£1.2m loss in a year that includes ~£0.84m of shares being sold is incredibly concerning. Shares won't be sold every year, so if we carry on as we are that quickly becomes a £2m a year loss.
Also not sure the corporate sponsorship part is telling the full story. The simple question is, could the 3 commercial executives we currently employ have done any more to retain sponsors from the last few seasons, or attract new / lapsed ones? Its better to sell 90% of sponsorship available at 80% of the price (potentially with reduced benefits) than 50% sponsorship at 100% of the price.
There was a good thread on here recently with plenty of constructive ldeas - I hope those are offered to the club by those individuals, or via the trust, and the club take note. Its going to take a mammoth effort from all stakeholders in the club to turn this around - starting with people employed at the club earning their crust. [Post edited 23 Dec 2022 15:56]
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:03 - Dec 23 with 6774 views | EllDale |
Be interesting to see what form a revamped lottery takes and how much the revenue the club see it generating.
I wasn't sure to be part or fully depressed after reading that. Perhaps we all needed another harsh dose of realism. |  | | |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:17 - Dec 23 with 6733 views | AtThePeake |
We're losing £20k a week and putting THIS team out on the pitch every week?
Christ. |  |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:22 - Dec 23 with 6715 views | 442Dale |
Thanks go to the club for this. Detailed and transparent communication is always good and most appreciated.
As is the mention of looking to make improvements. Opportunities have already been missed on things like the club shop with Christmas already upon us, simply involving a supporter group in the last few months could have seen basics addressed which focus on potential customers. Finding out we had Ian Henderson’s goalscoring record merchandise a few days before Christmas being one such example. The new kit supplier news will be much anticipated and there presumably is already a plan in place to get fans involved as soon as an announcement is made.
The work done already has been admirable, however the future is now far more important than the past and it’s great to see mention and focus on being a community-based club. We need to not only continue the excellent progress with the local community as detailed, but specific involvement with the Dale fan community and the Trust to try and identify how much more fans can contribute in terms of time and ideas - the “volunteer army” mentioned at the AGM needs to be explained and established. These structures and basic ideology have to be in place to illustrate to any potential new investors exactly what our club is and how we want it to look going forward.
For now, we all have to appreciate that this sort of update from the club is still much more than other clubs afford their supporters, long may it continue on a consistent basis. [Post edited 23 Dec 2022 16:25]
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:43 - Dec 23 with 6615 views | blackdogblue |
Great to see open & honestness…
I read it twice and agree the financial loss is worrying, it was mentioned maybe a couple in / out in the transfer window. Things have to improve performance wise, not just to retain league status but also to attract people back…
Surprised at the Trust if I’m honest, nothing from them for seems a long time now, no e mails & nothing posted since November, wonder why all has gone quiet? |  |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:46 - Dec 23 with 6599 views | 442Dale |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:43 - Dec 23 by blackdogblue |
Great to see open & honestness…
I read it twice and agree the financial loss is worrying, it was mentioned maybe a couple in / out in the transfer window. Things have to improve performance wise, not just to retain league status but also to attract people back…
Surprised at the Trust if I’m honest, nothing from them for seems a long time now, no e mails & nothing posted since November, wonder why all has gone quiet? |
Although performances haven’t been great, attendances have held up quite well in the main. There was a thread about it on here recently.
The Trust do their monthly newsletters, but I would agree that on the back of this it may be worth them establishing what role they/fans have to play over the next few months to maximise the excellent links they have with the club. | |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:48 - Dec 23 with 6579 views | D_Alien |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 15:52 - Dec 23 by HullDale |
Agree, lots to digest.
A ~£1.2m loss in a year that includes ~£0.84m of shares being sold is incredibly concerning. Shares won't be sold every year, so if we carry on as we are that quickly becomes a £2m a year loss.
Also not sure the corporate sponsorship part is telling the full story. The simple question is, could the 3 commercial executives we currently employ have done any more to retain sponsors from the last few seasons, or attract new / lapsed ones? Its better to sell 90% of sponsorship available at 80% of the price (potentially with reduced benefits) than 50% sponsorship at 100% of the price.
There was a good thread on here recently with plenty of constructive ldeas - I hope those are offered to the club by those individuals, or via the trust, and the club take note. Its going to take a mammoth effort from all stakeholders in the club to turn this around - starting with people employed at the club earning their crust. [Post edited 23 Dec 2022 15:56]
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'Executives' ?
I have an intense dislike of trumped up terminology (not addressed to you HD) applied to such positions. Commercial staff will do, and the questions i raised about the cost-effectiveness of their 100+ hours (combined) per week, are brought into focus with the Chairman's message. Why three? Does anyone monitor their performance? With fans hard-pressed to hand over their cash, i'm at a loss to see how this expenditure can be justified
Players are judged on performance, the same should apply to other costs to the club, so this isn't just mindless criticism but a real questioning of how this department operates. To be fair, this has been an issue at the club for quite a long time [Post edited 23 Dec 2022 16:56]
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:56 - Dec 23 with 6538 views | 442Dale |
On the amount of shares sold so far, it must be worth reconsidering reducing the minimum purchase amount to say £50/20 shares.
Surely selling as many as possible has to be the aim and if five fans buy £250 worth, it’s got to be better than none of them being shareholders. | |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 17:28 - Dec 23 with 6438 views | blackdogblue |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:46 - Dec 23 by 442Dale |
Although performances haven’t been great, attendances have held up quite well in the main. There was a thread about it on here recently.
The Trust do their monthly newsletters, but I would agree that on the back of this it may be worth them establishing what role they/fans have to play over the next few months to maximise the excellent links they have with the club. |
Will drop them an e mail to see if I’m on the circulation list as not had one for months tbh 👠| |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 17:53 - Dec 23 with 6368 views | Newbury_Dale |
The decision to give a collection of lower league journeymen 2 year contracts becomes all the more unfathomable when you read things like this. | | | |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 08:39 - Dec 24 with 5859 views | Dalenet |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:17 - Dec 23 by AtThePeake |
We're losing £20k a week and putting THIS team out on the pitch every week?
Christ. |
But we'll survive as a non league club eh?
There is nothing in the Chairmans statement that wasn't provided to shareholders a few months ago. The Trust know this. We are really struggling and need people to get behind the team if we are to retain our league status. Its not helpful that some posters are staying away right now. It also shows the scale of the challenge when the second share issue has only sold 20,000 shares. I am not that surprised by that to be honest given that people complain about the cost of match tickets, the cost of a pint in the club bars or the cost of a pie. Why would you chuck cash into more shares that provide no return. The Board are up against it now and our reserves are pretty much depleted. Who'd be a drector right now? | | | |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 09:24 - Dec 24 with 5773 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 15:52 - Dec 23 by HullDale |
Agree, lots to digest.
A ~£1.2m loss in a year that includes ~£0.84m of shares being sold is incredibly concerning. Shares won't be sold every year, so if we carry on as we are that quickly becomes a £2m a year loss.
Also not sure the corporate sponsorship part is telling the full story. The simple question is, could the 3 commercial executives we currently employ have done any more to retain sponsors from the last few seasons, or attract new / lapsed ones? Its better to sell 90% of sponsorship available at 80% of the price (potentially with reduced benefits) than 50% sponsorship at 100% of the price.
There was a good thread on here recently with plenty of constructive ldeas - I hope those are offered to the club by those individuals, or via the trust, and the club take note. Its going to take a mammoth effort from all stakeholders in the club to turn this around - starting with people employed at the club earning their crust. [Post edited 23 Dec 2022 15:56]
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I'm not sure you've mapped the share issues to the right time periods HD.
In the 2021 financial year, prior to the ex-CEO being removed we made a loss of £1.2m. No new shares were issued (probably a good thing as they could have found their way to the hands of others)
In the 2022 financial year, the club issued new shares (in October 2021) of £0.8m and the statement is saying made a trading loss of £0.5m, presumably after the one off sale of players like Beesley and Morley that will have reduced the underlying trading losses. Those shares of course also put ownership in the hands of fans rather than the ex-CEO's nominated payroll company.
In the 2023 financial year, the club is issuing more shares and the statement is that the loss will be similar to 2021's - so £1.2m. That makes sense as there is no cup run or player sales flattering the underlying trading position.
I remember the late David Kilpatrick and Graham Morris saying at a fan's forum years ago that the club budgeted to lose £250,000 per year. That would have been in the mid-2000's as I think Killie stepped down as Chairman in 2006/07.
In the 15 years since all that has happened is the numbers are amplified; players wages increased, TV money increased and the arrival in football of a gambling mentality. That £250,000 then will be well over £1m now.
I'm increasingly concerned that football is broken at every level. There is no money in it and a number (not all) of those who are in the game are there for non-football reasons.
Gillingham have today been sold to US property tycoon; he may or may not be brilliant for them but its interesting to swap balmy Florida for a freezing cold Priestfield's in January!
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/sport/us-property-tycoon-completes-gillingham- |  |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 10:07 - Dec 24 with 5718 views | 442Dale |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 09:24 - Dec 24 by RAFCBLUE |
I'm not sure you've mapped the share issues to the right time periods HD.
In the 2021 financial year, prior to the ex-CEO being removed we made a loss of £1.2m. No new shares were issued (probably a good thing as they could have found their way to the hands of others)
In the 2022 financial year, the club issued new shares (in October 2021) of £0.8m and the statement is saying made a trading loss of £0.5m, presumably after the one off sale of players like Beesley and Morley that will have reduced the underlying trading losses. Those shares of course also put ownership in the hands of fans rather than the ex-CEO's nominated payroll company.
In the 2023 financial year, the club is issuing more shares and the statement is that the loss will be similar to 2021's - so £1.2m. That makes sense as there is no cup run or player sales flattering the underlying trading position.
I remember the late David Kilpatrick and Graham Morris saying at a fan's forum years ago that the club budgeted to lose £250,000 per year. That would have been in the mid-2000's as I think Killie stepped down as Chairman in 2006/07.
In the 15 years since all that has happened is the numbers are amplified; players wages increased, TV money increased and the arrival in football of a gambling mentality. That £250,000 then will be well over £1m now.
I'm increasingly concerned that football is broken at every level. There is no money in it and a number (not all) of those who are in the game are there for non-football reasons.
Gillingham have today been sold to US property tycoon; he may or may not be brilliant for them but its interesting to swap balmy Florida for a freezing cold Priestfield's in January!
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/sport/us-property-tycoon-completes-gillingham- |
Whilst again agreeing there are issues across the game as a whole and acknowledging the difficulties we face as a club (go back to the 90s under Kilpatrick and it was most certainly on the agenda then too, Kicking in the Wind provides an excellent glimpse into the world) we can only affect ourselves now and into the future.
What can we do differently? How can we maximise the support and skills of the supporters we do have? How can we attract more people to join that loyal fan base?
All those should be at the forefront of the minds of anyone connected with the club, whether it be those at Spotland or fans in pubs or on here. We’re all too aware of the difficulties and issues, the problems a relegation would bring, the football world at large; but it won’t achieve much going over that. If we can establish a longer term plan that everyone can buy into, with events like promotions and relegations factored in, it can serve to increase both awareness and inclusiveness of fans and anyone who wants to join the journey.
The first thing has to be to look at that share issue. There has been no valid reason given not to allow fans who may be able to afford a smaller amount to become involved in owning a part of their club. | |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 10:38 - Dec 24 with 5681 views | NorthernDale |
If we are losing money, it would be fair to suggest that most, if not all of the teams in league 1 and 2 are in the same position. In some cases the debt is being supported by the owners,but the Dale are a well run club and others may not be run in the same manner,so I would love to see the debt levels at the other clubs.
Yes we need to raise our income, I would restart the old lottery system, that our CEO scrapped and instead commenced with a less successful direct debit one, which was run if my memory serves me correct by an independent business, who took a percentage of the money raised. The old system was successful, it was run in-house and would reconnect the club with the community, so reactivate it.
Also in the pass we raise income through the sales of players, but at present who could sell out of the present squad, there may be youngsters coming through the academy, but it will take time to raise the value of these players. I am unsure if we have any income from add on's off players we have sold to come into the club in the next few months. Also in the past we have always had cup runs with visits to Newcastle or Manchester United to generate additional income, sadly this year thanks to a poor squad we have none.
I know that the EFL are talking about having three up and down from the National league, but EFL clubs could save money by having a league 2 north and south by merging the National league and league 2. it would potentially generate bigger gates with a closer proximity of other teams, but would many including myself would miss journeys down to distant southern teams, but I see the idea coming on the table at some stage.
The board have brought stability to the club after the last two years of chaos, now it is about keeping calm and planning carefully for the future, we need to generate income, but we must careful in who we attract as new investors. A cup run net season could change the financial situation and a change in the lottery could boost our income. | | | |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 11:03 - Dec 24 with 5660 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 10:07 - Dec 24 by 442Dale |
Whilst again agreeing there are issues across the game as a whole and acknowledging the difficulties we face as a club (go back to the 90s under Kilpatrick and it was most certainly on the agenda then too, Kicking in the Wind provides an excellent glimpse into the world) we can only affect ourselves now and into the future.
What can we do differently? How can we maximise the support and skills of the supporters we do have? How can we attract more people to join that loyal fan base?
All those should be at the forefront of the minds of anyone connected with the club, whether it be those at Spotland or fans in pubs or on here. We’re all too aware of the difficulties and issues, the problems a relegation would bring, the football world at large; but it won’t achieve much going over that. If we can establish a longer term plan that everyone can buy into, with events like promotions and relegations factored in, it can serve to increase both awareness and inclusiveness of fans and anyone who wants to join the journey.
The first thing has to be to look at that share issue. There has been no valid reason given not to allow fans who may be able to afford a smaller amount to become involved in owning a part of their club. |
I don't disagree with any of that and there are two complementary but linked avenues to those arguments of long term progression.
First is financial. How do you stop a club losing, on average, £18,750 per week at League 2 level without having to resort to the one-off FA Cup tie or player sale? That figure is after TV/EFL money, sponsorships and all the current inflows so until the whole game wakes up for all lower division clubs this issue will persist. It's telling that our loss per week is wage of just 1 top Championship or average Premier League player and if that doesn't show the gulf in priorities currently from those who run the game then I don't know what does.
Second is engagement. How do you persuade a bigger proportion of 220,000 population of Rochdale to give their local football club a go as a paying customer? The list of activities being done is impressive and the community trust is now getting some excellent recognition for their work, but without that recurring long term engagement that brings people in then there is not sustainability in that model.
You're right that these have been the problems at Rochdale since time began; it was ever the case. | |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 11:24 - Dec 24 with 5635 views | 442Dale |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 11:03 - Dec 24 by RAFCBLUE |
I don't disagree with any of that and there are two complementary but linked avenues to those arguments of long term progression.
First is financial. How do you stop a club losing, on average, £18,750 per week at League 2 level without having to resort to the one-off FA Cup tie or player sale? That figure is after TV/EFL money, sponsorships and all the current inflows so until the whole game wakes up for all lower division clubs this issue will persist. It's telling that our loss per week is wage of just 1 top Championship or average Premier League player and if that doesn't show the gulf in priorities currently from those who run the game then I don't know what does.
Second is engagement. How do you persuade a bigger proportion of 220,000 population of Rochdale to give their local football club a go as a paying customer? The list of activities being done is impressive and the community trust is now getting some excellent recognition for their work, but without that recurring long term engagement that brings people in then there is not sustainability in that model.
You're right that these have been the problems at Rochdale since time began; it was ever the case. |
The subject of engagement is where the focus should be. As mentioned in an earlier post, the community side have done that fantastically well but there needs to be an admittance that improvements need to be made and an emphasis on engaging the current fan base is a priority to move the club forwards.
That includes:
- listening to and acting on constructive criticism which could lead to improvements.
- actively seeking new ideas through making effective use of the Trust’s links with the club (the “volunteer army”, over a month since the AGM and we’ve heard nothing more)
- having a clear, recognised plan which is available to all supporters (current and prospective) where they can see their role in moving their club forwards.
The simple things can be addressed immediately by having the above in place as an intrinsic part of the club.
Engagement starts with what we have, because from there others might see that they too want to be engaged as well. All fans who want their club to be better and point out where this could and should be achievable are vital, how can that be harnessed from now and into the future? | |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 18:31 - Dec 24 with 5266 views | bluevein64 |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 16:22 - Dec 23 by 442Dale |
Thanks go to the club for this. Detailed and transparent communication is always good and most appreciated.
As is the mention of looking to make improvements. Opportunities have already been missed on things like the club shop with Christmas already upon us, simply involving a supporter group in the last few months could have seen basics addressed which focus on potential customers. Finding out we had Ian Henderson’s goalscoring record merchandise a few days before Christmas being one such example. The new kit supplier news will be much anticipated and there presumably is already a plan in place to get fans involved as soon as an announcement is made.
The work done already has been admirable, however the future is now far more important than the past and it’s great to see mention and focus on being a community-based club. We need to not only continue the excellent progress with the local community as detailed, but specific involvement with the Dale fan community and the Trust to try and identify how much more fans can contribute in terms of time and ideas - the “volunteer army” mentioned at the AGM needs to be explained and established. These structures and basic ideology have to be in place to illustrate to any potential new investors exactly what our club is and how we want it to look going forward.
For now, we all have to appreciate that this sort of update from the club is still much more than other clubs afford their supporters, long may it continue on a consistent basis. [Post edited 23 Dec 2022 16:25]
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Regarding next seasons kit suppliers and generating Club financial income - I was speaking with the lad at the Club shop and it seems that the Club prefer Puma for next season , if thats the case this may/may not prove to be a massive hit however, according to my small group of Dale Fans friends the preference is unanimously Adidas, they all said that they would buy Adidas team shirts and leisure/outdoor ware whereas they've bought an Errea team shirt to attend games but wouldn't be seen dead (or something along similar lines) in Errea leisure/outdoor ware, I'm told the the smaller Kit suppliers allow some flexibility with kit design, I agree with my friends personally, I'd readily accept standard Adidas over Errea (smaller suppliers) design - as we all know "replica team kit" is a very lucrative business and it will be folly (in my opinion ) should the Club decide NOT to include Dale Fans/Supporters in the decision regarding next seasons Team ware suppliers ! |  | | |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 19:59 - Dec 24 with 5122 views | James1980 |
On the shares front perhaps the club could explain why the limit was set at 100 shares minimum and why having not sold the allocation, instead of reducing the limit they are looking for commercial investment. | |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 21:06 - Dec 24 with 5042 views | 442Dale |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 19:59 - Dec 24 by James1980 |
On the shares front perhaps the club could explain why the limit was set at 100 shares minimum and why having not sold the allocation, instead of reducing the limit they are looking for commercial investment. |
Exactly. Engagement.
Both in terms of communication if there’s a reason why this can’t be done or to admit a mistake and make a change. | |
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| Chairman's Christmas Message on 23:25 - Dec 24 with 4903 views | 49thseason |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 21:06 - Dec 24 by 442Dale |
Exactly. Engagement.
Both in terms of communication if there’s a reason why this can’t be done or to admit a mistake and make a change. |
The problem is, a £100 here and £100 there doesn't make much of a dent in the sort of numbers they are hoping for. And having only got interest in 20000, which indicates plenty of fairly big shareholders haven't thrown their weight behind it, they may have thought that its easier to try and get a fairly hefty shareholder on board. You can hardly blame them as they are in a hole for £10s of thousands apiece just buying out MH.
If there is a person prepared to put a wedge in, and it's a case of needs must, then with the best will in the world, its hard to complain.
My only thought on the matter was that they could have offered say £500 worth of shares with a 30% discount on the next 2 season tickets or some such offer, its borrowing from future years but may help to plug the hole in the current finances and buy some time to bring other initiatives on board..such as an all-singing and dancing lottery,
There is nothing really sustainable about running up debts in the hope they will be covered by a transfer or a cup game, how can we improve when the best players are sold simply to keep the not so good ones on the pitch??
We have to find £6m or so a year in income at which point we sell because we want to and money from cup games improves the club, not just keeps us stood still or worse in slow decline. In the 2021 accounts there were Staff costs of £3.2m and admin expenses of £2m, just to keep the lights on and a team on the pitch.
Clearly the way the money from TV etc is divided up by the EFL is killing teams in L1 and L2, which as noted by an earlier poster must be surely struggling to survive. . But when you consider that the PL gave £250m to prop up the EFL during the Covid days, and 48 lower league clubs received only £375k in L1 and £250k in L2 whilst the Championship clubs were offered interest-free loans from the remaining £200m, you can see why lower league football is virtually bust.
Maybe its now time to talk to RMBC about a move to Kingsway and a new ground with proper facilities and options for things like a truck stop / hotel to generate income, somewhere with car parking, a restaurant, a takeaway, conference facilities, the sort of thing that would give the whole town a big boost. Maybe the community Ownership fund could be used too?
"to move a community asset to a new, more appropriate location within the same community. This might be because a different location offers better value to continue the asset, or because the venue is in itself an asset of community value"
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/community-ownership-fund-prospectus/c
Oh, and I wonder how many of these have been approached for sponsorship or Hospitality Packages or even season tickets for staff and their kids?
Top 10 companies in Rochdale based on revenue
FERRARI FINANCIAL SERVICES GMBH
FOOTASYLUM LIMITED
ROCHDALE METROPOLITAN BOROUGH COUNCIL
STALLION HOLDINGS LIMITED
TAKEUCHI MFG. (U.K.) LIMITED
P.N.DALY LIMITED
PRECISION TECHNOLOGIES GROUP (PTG) LIMITED
SONOCO LIMITED
DECKERS HOSPITALITY GROUP LIMITED
FARREL LIMITED
The total amount of companies in Rochdale is 16.888. 14.461 of all companies in Rochdale are small businesses with 0 to 5 employees (86%). 2.174 companies in Rochdale are medium sized businesses with 5 — 50 employees. There are 253 top companies in Rochdale with at least 50 employees. |  | | |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 08:50 - Dec 26 with 4179 views | rkershaw |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 23:25 - Dec 24 by 49thseason |
The problem is, a £100 here and £100 there doesn't make much of a dent in the sort of numbers they are hoping for. And having only got interest in 20000, which indicates plenty of fairly big shareholders haven't thrown their weight behind it, they may have thought that its easier to try and get a fairly hefty shareholder on board. You can hardly blame them as they are in a hole for £10s of thousands apiece just buying out MH.
If there is a person prepared to put a wedge in, and it's a case of needs must, then with the best will in the world, its hard to complain.
My only thought on the matter was that they could have offered say £500 worth of shares with a 30% discount on the next 2 season tickets or some such offer, its borrowing from future years but may help to plug the hole in the current finances and buy some time to bring other initiatives on board..such as an all-singing and dancing lottery,
There is nothing really sustainable about running up debts in the hope they will be covered by a transfer or a cup game, how can we improve when the best players are sold simply to keep the not so good ones on the pitch??
We have to find £6m or so a year in income at which point we sell because we want to and money from cup games improves the club, not just keeps us stood still or worse in slow decline. In the 2021 accounts there were Staff costs of £3.2m and admin expenses of £2m, just to keep the lights on and a team on the pitch.
Clearly the way the money from TV etc is divided up by the EFL is killing teams in L1 and L2, which as noted by an earlier poster must be surely struggling to survive. . But when you consider that the PL gave £250m to prop up the EFL during the Covid days, and 48 lower league clubs received only £375k in L1 and £250k in L2 whilst the Championship clubs were offered interest-free loans from the remaining £200m, you can see why lower league football is virtually bust.
Maybe its now time to talk to RMBC about a move to Kingsway and a new ground with proper facilities and options for things like a truck stop / hotel to generate income, somewhere with car parking, a restaurant, a takeaway, conference facilities, the sort of thing that would give the whole town a big boost. Maybe the community Ownership fund could be used too?
"to move a community asset to a new, more appropriate location within the same community. This might be because a different location offers better value to continue the asset, or because the venue is in itself an asset of community value"
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/community-ownership-fund-prospectus/c
Oh, and I wonder how many of these have been approached for sponsorship or Hospitality Packages or even season tickets for staff and their kids?
Top 10 companies in Rochdale based on revenue
FERRARI FINANCIAL SERVICES GMBH
FOOTASYLUM LIMITED
ROCHDALE METROPOLITAN BOROUGH COUNCIL
STALLION HOLDINGS LIMITED
TAKEUCHI MFG. (U.K.) LIMITED
P.N.DALY LIMITED
PRECISION TECHNOLOGIES GROUP (PTG) LIMITED
SONOCO LIMITED
DECKERS HOSPITALITY GROUP LIMITED
FARREL LIMITED
The total amount of companies in Rochdale is 16.888. 14.461 of all companies in Rochdale are small businesses with 0 to 5 employees (86%). 2.174 companies in Rochdale are medium sized businesses with 5 — 50 employees. There are 253 top companies in Rochdale with at least 50 employees. |
I realise that this suggestion will prompt a mixed response. However, as a supporter of both clubs I am prepared to put my neck on the line for the sake of both club's survival. Rochdale AFC and Rochdale Hornets RLFC need to join forces and work together in terms of selling a Rochdale sports brand within the town / community; carrying a shared identity. I propose that the chairmen of both clubs make their new year's resolution to support each other and perhaps embark on a cross skills sharing exercise. Dale have got a new board of directorsr whom, I would suggest need a little external guidance / support. Hornets have recently attracted people of substantial experience (especially in terms of media relations) in a bid to grow their brand. What about starting witht a shared season ticket / club shop loyalty card whereas supporters of both clubs would benefit from reduced stadium admission and club shop purchase. Try to nurture a Rochdale brand rather than separate Dale / Hornets brands. Hornets season tickets have recently been released. The rrugby league world cup was a great success and will have no doubt attracted new supporters / players to the sport.(even Dale fans). Both clubs desperately need more supporters through the turnstiles on a Saturday / Sunday afternoon. Hornets only have x9 home games this season as West Wales Raiders have sadly folded. I strongly advocate that the olive branch be further extended between Messrs Gauge and Mazey for the sake of professional sport withiin the borough!! | | | |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 09:44 - Dec 26 with 4066 views | kel |
After the way Mazey has behaved I wouldn’t give him the steam off my shite. Just my opinion though. |  | | |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 10:02 - Dec 26 with 4032 views | A_Newby |
I have previously commented about this on the last share issue thread.
As a club we lose about £1.5m a year, excluding any income from player sales or cup runs.
Match day income is approximately £1.3m over a season of around 29 home games with an average gate of about 2,900 (Average gate for 2021/22 from footballworld.net). Of the average gate of 2,900, around 2,400 are home supporters.
The average income for each home match is 1,300,000 divided by 29 games or approximately £46,000 per game.
Therefore, the average contribution to club income per fan attending is £46,000 divided by 2,900 or approximately £16 per fan per game.
To “break even” with the same size crowd each supporter would need to contribute around at least £33 per game. (£33 x 2,900 fans = £96,000 per game, £96,000 x 29 games = £2.8 million)
Alternatively, if the contribution per fan per game remained the same at £16 per match, then we would need to average around 6,000 fans per game. (£16 x 6,000 fans = £96,000, £96,000 x 29 games = £2.8m)
In conclusion without any new non match day related income to subsidise the football, to “break even” we would need, to either roughly double the attendances at matches with the same income per fan or double the amount of income from each fan attending, or some combination of both.
Attendance.....Income fan......Income match.........Income season 29 matches
3000.................. £32.....................£96,000............................£2.78m
4000...................£24.....................£96,000............................£2.78m
5000...................£19.....................£95,000............................£2.75m
6000...................£16.....................£96,000............................£2.78m
I personally would aim to try to reach an average gate of 4,500 with an average match day income per fan of about £22 per match.
This would mean getting a regular home contingent of 4,000 supporters which I know is an ambitious target and may not be achievable, but we need to aim for something.
If we could accomplish this, it would also leave any income from player sales and cup runs as “surplus” which could be used to develop the squad.
At the trust AGM, the board were asking what, after the recent drive to raise funds for legal fees, would the fans like to see them doing. I would like the trust to concentrate their valuable time and efforts solely on increasing the attendance / fanbase both in the short and long term.
For example, raising funds to invite and pay for a whole year 6 primary school class and their parents to attend a match.
Today I will be going to the match with a friend. We normally go in the bar and have a pint before the match. We have started going to the matches a bit earlier and having an extra pint in the bar adding an extra £3 each to our match day spending and probably £1.50 each in income / profit to the club.
We have also started buying an extra 50:50 half time draw ticket each. This adds money directly into the club coffers with no extra costs for the club, increases the prize money pay-out and increases our chances of winning it.
Simple things like this are ways to increase the club’s income that all fans can do. As with the money raised for the legal battle, every little helps. |  | | |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 10:11 - Dec 26 with 4006 views | Dalenet |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 23:25 - Dec 24 by 49thseason |
The problem is, a £100 here and £100 there doesn't make much of a dent in the sort of numbers they are hoping for. And having only got interest in 20000, which indicates plenty of fairly big shareholders haven't thrown their weight behind it, they may have thought that its easier to try and get a fairly hefty shareholder on board. You can hardly blame them as they are in a hole for £10s of thousands apiece just buying out MH.
If there is a person prepared to put a wedge in, and it's a case of needs must, then with the best will in the world, its hard to complain.
My only thought on the matter was that they could have offered say £500 worth of shares with a 30% discount on the next 2 season tickets or some such offer, its borrowing from future years but may help to plug the hole in the current finances and buy some time to bring other initiatives on board..such as an all-singing and dancing lottery,
There is nothing really sustainable about running up debts in the hope they will be covered by a transfer or a cup game, how can we improve when the best players are sold simply to keep the not so good ones on the pitch??
We have to find £6m or so a year in income at which point we sell because we want to and money from cup games improves the club, not just keeps us stood still or worse in slow decline. In the 2021 accounts there were Staff costs of £3.2m and admin expenses of £2m, just to keep the lights on and a team on the pitch.
Clearly the way the money from TV etc is divided up by the EFL is killing teams in L1 and L2, which as noted by an earlier poster must be surely struggling to survive. . But when you consider that the PL gave £250m to prop up the EFL during the Covid days, and 48 lower league clubs received only £375k in L1 and £250k in L2 whilst the Championship clubs were offered interest-free loans from the remaining £200m, you can see why lower league football is virtually bust.
Maybe its now time to talk to RMBC about a move to Kingsway and a new ground with proper facilities and options for things like a truck stop / hotel to generate income, somewhere with car parking, a restaurant, a takeaway, conference facilities, the sort of thing that would give the whole town a big boost. Maybe the community Ownership fund could be used too?
"to move a community asset to a new, more appropriate location within the same community. This might be because a different location offers better value to continue the asset, or because the venue is in itself an asset of community value"
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/community-ownership-fund-prospectus/c
Oh, and I wonder how many of these have been approached for sponsorship or Hospitality Packages or even season tickets for staff and their kids?
Top 10 companies in Rochdale based on revenue
FERRARI FINANCIAL SERVICES GMBH
FOOTASYLUM LIMITED
ROCHDALE METROPOLITAN BOROUGH COUNCIL
STALLION HOLDINGS LIMITED
TAKEUCHI MFG. (U.K.) LIMITED
P.N.DALY LIMITED
PRECISION TECHNOLOGIES GROUP (PTG) LIMITED
SONOCO LIMITED
DECKERS HOSPITALITY GROUP LIMITED
FARREL LIMITED
The total amount of companies in Rochdale is 16.888. 14.461 of all companies in Rochdale are small businesses with 0 to 5 employees (86%). 2.174 companies in Rochdale are medium sized businesses with 5 — 50 employees. There are 253 top companies in Rochdale with at least 50 employees. |
The last thing we need now is the distraction of a new stadium. It has been reported that it costs c500k a year to keep the lights on at Spotland. With a new town centre Hilton hotel coming on stream and Norton Grange about to be extended, I wonder whether we could make the ground a 24/7 venue. But with losses building and league survival not guaranteed our focus has to be on revenue now.
Have we reached the point where we need to appeal to the town to back us or lose us. A rest of the season ticket for £100 to try and get bums on seats. A concerted local and social media campaign. Of course it would help if the quality of football improved. As you say - we need £5-£6m of income each year. We'll get half that in the conference. Carpe Diem has never been more critical | | | |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 10:32 - Dec 26 with 3920 views | 442Dale |
| Chairman's Christmas Message on 10:02 - Dec 26 by A_Newby |
I have previously commented about this on the last share issue thread.
As a club we lose about £1.5m a year, excluding any income from player sales or cup runs.
Match day income is approximately £1.3m over a season of around 29 home games with an average gate of about 2,900 (Average gate for 2021/22 from footballworld.net). Of the average gate of 2,900, around 2,400 are home supporters.
The average income for each home match is 1,300,000 divided by 29 games or approximately £46,000 per game.
Therefore, the average contribution to club income per fan attending is £46,000 divided by 2,900 or approximately £16 per fan per game.
To “break even” with the same size crowd each supporter would need to contribute around at least £33 per game. (£33 x 2,900 fans = £96,000 per game, £96,000 x 29 games = £2.8 million)
Alternatively, if the contribution per fan per game remained the same at £16 per match, then we would need to average around 6,000 fans per game. (£16 x 6,000 fans = £96,000, £96,000 x 29 games = £2.8m)
In conclusion without any new non match day related income to subsidise the football, to “break even” we would need, to either roughly double the attendances at matches with the same income per fan or double the amount of income from each fan attending, or some combination of both.
Attendance.....Income fan......Income match.........Income season 29 matches
3000.................. £32.....................£96,000............................£2.78m
4000...................£24.....................£96,000............................£2.78m
5000...................£19.....................£95,000............................£2.75m
6000...................£16.....................£96,000............................£2.78m
I personally would aim to try to reach an average gate of 4,500 with an average match day income per fan of about £22 per match.
This would mean getting a regular home contingent of 4,000 supporters which I know is an ambitious target and may not be achievable, but we need to aim for something.
If we could accomplish this, it would also leave any income from player sales and cup runs as “surplus” which could be used to develop the squad.
At the trust AGM, the board were asking what, after the recent drive to raise funds for legal fees, would the fans like to see them doing. I would like the trust to concentrate their valuable time and efforts solely on increasing the attendance / fanbase both in the short and long term.
For example, raising funds to invite and pay for a whole year 6 primary school class and their parents to attend a match.
Today I will be going to the match with a friend. We normally go in the bar and have a pint before the match. We have started going to the matches a bit earlier and having an extra pint in the bar adding an extra £3 each to our match day spending and probably £1.50 each in income / profit to the club.
We have also started buying an extra 50:50 half time draw ticket each. This adds money directly into the club coffers with no extra costs for the club, increases the prize money pay-out and increases our chances of winning it.
Simple things like this are ways to increase the club’s income that all fans can do. As with the money raised for the legal battle, every little helps. |
Things like that idea for the Trust are a good aim for a supporters organisation which is why the focus has to be on engagement. That HAS to come from the club initially to establish a plan and direction.
This needs setting up as soon as possible because, having also been present at the Trust AGM, there did not seem to be real concern over club finances which would require immediate Trust involvement to introduce campaigns like the one you mentioned.
The ball is firmly in the club’s court with the Trust and supporters willing to step over the net and help them choose whether to play a lob or a backhand. Movement needs to come from those holding the racket though. | |
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