| Ched Evans petition on 15:36 - Nov 14 with 2315 views | ElHoop |
I find it very difficult to work out what i think about this case. We don't really want people behaving like this for all sorts of reasons and if it brings about some sort of sea-change then it can't be bad, but that doesn't help Evans if he's been harshly treated. I can't get my head around the fact that Pistorius might have got a more lenient sentence than Evans did for instance, and OK it's different countries but does South Africa have a better system? The jury which gave the Evans verdict would no doubt have found Pistorius guilty and he might be guilty, but what if they were wrong in that case? If you have juries made up of people who might be blown around a bit then you really need to have an appeal system which compensates for that fact. I've no idea whether or not Evans deserved to go down, but it strikes me that his insistence of innocence is a bit deeper than I'd have expected were he as guilty as he's made out to be. Something doesn't quite add up anyway. |  | |  |
| Ched Evans petition on 16:13 - Nov 14 with 2283 views | scot1963 |
that blog puts very succinctly what I was thinking, from a legal perspective, having delved deeper into the case - but it's very difficult, on here, to even suggest that you see some difficulties with the conviction without getting abuse. If anyone makes such suggestions you are a 'rape apologist' or some such derogatory term - I am certainly no 'rape apologist', I am very much the opposite, I have posted on here previously bemoaning the lack of convictions in such cases and how the whole system seems to be weighted against the victim, but if anyone can be bothered to look further into this case it certainly raises doubts |  | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 16:31 - Nov 14 with 2250 views | PinnerPaul |
There was a good article in Eve Std (Yes I know!) last night quoting Gordon Strachan on football's morals.
Point he was making in the summer was that if Ched Evans was a 17 year old trainee with Sheff Utd, then given exact same set of circumstances he wouldn't be anywhere near the club now, in fact he would very likely have had any contract torn up on arrest, let alone conviction and he certainly would NOT have been offered training facilities after spending time inside.
Only reason Sheff Utd have been stalling on making a definitive statement is because they think Ched Evans is an asset that they don't want to lose.
That for me is the point, its less about the legal rights and wrongs and processes and more about what Sheff Utd SHOULD do rather than what they can and cannot do.
The debate about whether criminals should be allowed to play football has rather been decided by the fact there are so many of then playing currently, add to that the fact that at least one peer of the realm is a convicted criminal also rather ends that argument. |  | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 16:40 - Nov 14 with 2231 views | Jamie |
Perhaps I am repeating a point already made, but surely the best and maybe only way for Sheff Utd to act is to release a statement announcing that he is being allowed to train with them and absolutely no decision will be made until the result of the appeal hearing is announced. | | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 17:07 - Nov 14 with 2198 views | ElHoop |
According to Evans' website:
According to her evidence, the complainant awoke on Monday **th ***** 201* in the Premier Inn totally unaware as to how she had got there. Having searched for her bag and mobile phone she then proceeded to Reception. Her mother picked her up and took her to her friend’s house. Later that day she returned to work. At the end of her shift at 11pm she went to the reception of the Premier Inn and requested to see CCTV footage to see, she claimed, if she could find out how she got there earlier that morning. She did not get to see the CCTV footage but was told by the receptionist that the room had been booked and was occupied by footballers.
Later that evening the complainant contacted North Wales Police claiming her drink had been spiked and that she had lost her bag and mobile phone. The police launched their investigation.
Through CCTV and the booking references for Room 14 the police easily established that the complainant had arrived with Clayton and that Ched had paid for the room. They arrested both of them.
That link you've just put up which I assume is the official record of his attempt to appeal says only this:
'12. The complainant said that her next memory was waking up in the hotel room at about
11.30am. She realised that she was alone. She was naked and had urinated in the bed. She had a headache and was confused. She reported the matter to the police.
13. She was examined by a doctor and various samples were taken. As a result of an examination of the samples, at that stage, notwithstanding the direct evidence that she had had a good deal to drink the evening before, no alcohol was detected. That may have been theconsequence of its elimination over the course of time. Expert evidence sought to reconstructthe amount of alcohol she had consumed at an earlier stage. The doctor found no injuries to the complainant. The tests also revealed traces of cocaine and cannabis. The evidence was consistent with cocaine and cannabis having been ingested some days earlier.'
It's the bit at the end of point 12 which seems odd - 'she reported the matter to the police'. What matter did she report - a rape? A missing handbag? Thinking that she had been drugged in some way? It's all a bit vague as to what she reported and why. | | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 17:27 - Nov 14 with 2171 views | themodfather |
ok, why has any appeal taken so long? why was he paroled to appeal?
he was found guilty by a jury etc....
he is now fighting to save any career, i assume he'd still get
£100k a year at some clubs....jessica ennis wants her name of the stand at bramall lane if they resign evans and its getting them a lot of bad publicity.
unless he wins an appeal ( then claims bundles in compensation) he will go on a sex register and so can't be around kids and most clubs have youth teams, mascots etc as well as womens teams so that in itself creates huge issues.
this could drag on thru human rights courts.... | | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 21:40 - Nov 14 with 2100 views | dsr_burnley |
FWIW, five years ago there would have been no question of a rape charge. It's only recently that it became law that in cases where the woman is too drunk to consent, it becomes rape unless proved otherwise. Personally, I think MacDonald ought to be getting the same treatment, good or bad, as Evans - they may have been on opposite sides of the line between guilty in law and not guilty in law, but morally there isn't a hair between them and what they did. | | | |
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| Ched Evans petition on 22:43 - Nov 14 with 2052 views | PunteR |
| Ched Evans petition on 13:52 - Nov 14 by pomanjou |
Its more than interesting. It should be compulsory reading. Especially for PunteR and anyone else who wants to hang him or whatever. |
I don't think he should be hanged or whatever,I just think he can't be a professional footballer again.
I don't know exactly what happened that night and neither do you, I just know he was trialed and convicted of rape.
Just to add. He could have quite easily got her pregnant,and that would be a life sentence.
second chances are few and far between in the real world. Why does he deserve one? [Post edited 15 Nov 2014 2:52]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Ched Evans petition on 08:49 - Nov 15 with 1985 views | hoopdog |
This does seem to have boiled up into a witch hunt against Evans in some ways .
Take the case against Remy the entire media world was prepared to await a verdict while he played on , yet the bandwagon of minor celebs and the media aren't willing to allow Evans the chance to even train while awaiting the outcome of his appeal ,What happens if he wins his appeal do all these people that signed partitions and the media and the protesters that aired their views via the media do they apologise publicly somehow I don't think so | | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 09:23 - Nov 15 with 1968 views | CHUBBS |
The thing i don't get is that its now become the blokes responsibility to stay sober and make sure the female is in a fit enough state to consent.
What ever happened to equality?
What if they are both as drunk as each other,end up having sex then the female regrets it and files for rape?
There are plenty of women having sex drunk without any knowledge of the details and its down to them not the man involved.
These days people seem to know their rights but not their responsibilities preferring to blame others for irresponsible behavior.
This girl sounds like a gold digging fool who fell for the old bills bollox and has come out unstuck big time.
As that report earlier says,they're both guilty or both innocent as they behaved exactly the same way.
If he has a decent defence team they should have little problem reversing the decision. |  | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 09:33 - Nov 15 with 1959 views | Watford_Ranger |
| Ched Evans petition on 22:43 - Nov 14 by PunteR |
I don't think he should be hanged or whatever,I just think he can't be a professional footballer again.
I don't know exactly what happened that night and neither do you, I just know he was trialed and convicted of rape.
Just to add. He could have quite easily got her pregnant,and that would be a life sentence.
second chances are few and far between in the real world. Why does he deserve one? [Post edited 15 Nov 2014 2:52]
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Because he was imprisoned for the 'crime' (personally I don't think he should have been found guilty from what I've read about the case). That was the punishment. How does it make sense to re-punish him by not allowing him to work? Or would it be ok for him to do a job that is less well paid? | | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 13:53 - Nov 17 with 1835 views | PinnerPaul |
| Ched Evans petition on 08:49 - Nov 15 by hoopdog |
This does seem to have boiled up into a witch hunt against Evans in some ways .
Take the case against Remy the entire media world was prepared to await a verdict while he played on , yet the bandwagon of minor celebs and the media aren't willing to allow Evans the chance to even train while awaiting the outcome of his appeal ,What happens if he wins his appeal do all these people that signed partitions and the media and the protesters that aired their views via the media do they apologise publicly somehow I don't think so |
Hang on, Remy wasn't even charged.
Evans has been convicted and his case reexamined by a judge who didn't think an appeal was warranted.
Not the same at all! | | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 13:59 - Nov 17 with 1826 views | ElHoop |
| Ched Evans petition on 13:53 - Nov 17 by PinnerPaul |
Hang on, Remy wasn't even charged.
Evans has been convicted and his case reexamined by a judge who didn't think an appeal was warranted.
Not the same at all! |
I think that an appeal is only allowed permitted if there were grounds for believing that the original trial was unfair in terms of new evidence or whatever. I might be mistaken here, but just because a verdict might have been wrong it isn't enough grounds for a retrial is it? By the same token, a guy found innocent can't be retried unless there is new evidence which suggests his guilt?
Anyhow they would never allow a retrial as there couldn't be one now after all of the furore about Sheff Utd. The defence would immediately slap in a claim that he couldn't get a fair trial in the circumstances. So it's either a case of it all stands as it is, or he gets pardoned. I know which my money is on. | | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 15:29 - Nov 17 with 1741 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ched Evans petition on 09:23 - Nov 15 by CHUBBS |
The thing i don't get is that its now become the blokes responsibility to stay sober and make sure the female is in a fit enough state to consent.
What ever happened to equality?
What if they are both as drunk as each other,end up having sex then the female regrets it and files for rape?
There are plenty of women having sex drunk without any knowledge of the details and its down to them not the man involved.
These days people seem to know their rights but not their responsibilities preferring to blame others for irresponsible behavior.
This girl sounds like a gold digging fool who fell for the old bills bollox and has come out unstuck big time.
As that report earlier says,they're both guilty or both innocent as they behaved exactly the same way.
If he has a decent defence team they should have little problem reversing the decision. |
Jesus Christ. |  |
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| Ched Evans petition on 16:17 - Nov 17 with 1700 views | stevec |
| Ched Evans petition on 15:29 - Nov 17 by Antti_Heinola |
Jesus Christ. |
You can be dismissive of what Chubbs says but consider this.
The way the law stands now, if you have sex with a woman who's had a few drinks, she is perfectly entitled to go to the Police and say you raped her and you WILL end up in a court of law, irrespective of whether you are completely innocent.
Don't ask 'why would she do that'.Whether she feels guilty the next morning, whether she's concerned about her boyfriend finding out she's been cheating, whether she doesn't want to look 'easy' in front of her girlfriends or family. Whether you didn't bother to ask for her phone number. None of these things are relevant. If she sticks to her story you will be in a situation where the only thing keeping you from a 5 year prison sentence is who is the most presentable in front of a judge and jury.
Have a think about that. |  | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 16:54 - Nov 17 with 1671 views | paulparker |
| Ched Evans petition on 16:17 - Nov 17 by stevec |
You can be dismissive of what Chubbs says but consider this.
The way the law stands now, if you have sex with a woman who's had a few drinks, she is perfectly entitled to go to the Police and say you raped her and you WILL end up in a court of law, irrespective of whether you are completely innocent.
Don't ask 'why would she do that'.Whether she feels guilty the next morning, whether she's concerned about her boyfriend finding out she's been cheating, whether she doesn't want to look 'easy' in front of her girlfriends or family. Whether you didn't bother to ask for her phone number. None of these things are relevant. If she sticks to her story you will be in a situation where the only thing keeping you from a 5 year prison sentence is who is the most presentable in front of a judge and jury.
Have a think about that. |
Having been on the receiving end of being nicked with 4 others for an attempted rape
many years ago I can back up what you say,
funny thing was no one had sex with the woman who made the claim so they can still nick you even if the woman believes she has had sex , its all on the woman's say so,
what I will say about evans is he walked in on his mates say so after he had a go on the girl which was consensual , the woman was intoxicated and didn't consent to Evans joining the party so to speak, also wasn't there were a load of other blokes waiting to have a go after ?? that's rape no matter how you dress it up
evans took the opportunity thinking he was in some kind of porn film (btw why would you ever want to stir someone else's porridge)
its like shagging a corpse & why would you do that,?? |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Ched Evans petition on 16:58 - Nov 17 with 1669 views | simmo |
| Ched Evans petition on 16:17 - Nov 17 by stevec |
You can be dismissive of what Chubbs says but consider this.
The way the law stands now, if you have sex with a woman who's had a few drinks, she is perfectly entitled to go to the Police and say you raped her and you WILL end up in a court of law, irrespective of whether you are completely innocent.
Don't ask 'why would she do that'.Whether she feels guilty the next morning, whether she's concerned about her boyfriend finding out she's been cheating, whether she doesn't want to look 'easy' in front of her girlfriends or family. Whether you didn't bother to ask for her phone number. None of these things are relevant. If she sticks to her story you will be in a situation where the only thing keeping you from a 5 year prison sentence is who is the most presentable in front of a judge and jury.
Have a think about that. |
I am glad it's easy for a girl to have a rape claim properly investigated, or anybody for that matter. We had years of these things not being taken seriously and it caused a terrible number of abusers to do as they pleased. I think there should be more severe repercussions if it's discovered the claim is false, but other than that all legitimate claims should be investigated to the full extent. In this case it has led to a conviction, so the last thing we should do is try to shame the girl. What does that say to the next girl that gets raped by a high profile individual? That she shouldn't for fear of being labelled a 'slag' or a 'gold digger'? |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Ched Evans petition on 17:13 - Nov 17 with 1655 views | Watford_Ranger |
Out of interest, how was she sober enough to consent with Clayton whatsisname but not with Evans? | | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 17:24 - Nov 17 with 1644 views | johncharles |
| Ched Evans petition on 17:13 - Nov 17 by Watford_Ranger |
Out of interest, how was she sober enough to consent with Clayton whatsisname but not with Evans? |
Because the Police said so, and told her to say so. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Ched Evans petition on 17:29 - Nov 17 with 1631 views | WeaverQPR |
My pal nipped a burds arse on a night out as he walked past her, next thing two plods come in drag him out and arrest him for sexual assault. Worlds gone mad, you need written consent these days. |  |
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| Ched Evans petition on 17:30 - Nov 17 with 1627 views | ElHoop |
I get the impression that the CPS thought that both were guilty as she said that she didn't know what she was doing, but the judge told the jury that they could make one or other of them guilty if they felt that way inclined. She couldn't have said that she consented to the first guy but not the second, as she couldn't remember anything, so presumably the jury assumed that she consented to the other guy but not to Evans. Maybe the evidence led them that way or maybe Evans looked to be more of an arsehole. | | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 17:40 - Nov 17 with 1613 views | hopphoops |
| Ched Evans petition on 17:29 - Nov 17 by WeaverQPR |
My pal nipped a burds arse on a night out as he walked past her, next thing two plods come in drag him out and arrest him for sexual assault. Worlds gone mad, you need written consent these days. |
are you the guy with the beard?
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| Ched Evans petition on 18:39 - Nov 17 with 1578 views | Clive_Anderson |
Seems a strange state of affairs where you can have a man and woman equally drunk have sex and the man is deemed capable of giving consent but the women isn't. | | | |
| Ched Evans petition on 19:05 - Nov 17 with 1560 views | CHUBBS |
| Ched Evans petition on 15:29 - Nov 17 by Antti_Heinola |
Jesus Christ. |
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