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I think the biggest problem is that on the global scale the British Isles is small in both actual size and population. It really is.
India and the Asian sub-continent is huge. China is huge, the middle east is huge, Africa is huge.
If everyone comes over here then irrespective of the politics and religion, there simply isn't enough room & infrastructure. We simply cannot cope. That's before all the issues of having all these different cultures, faiths etc all trying (or not) to intergrate.
IMO there's too much guilt & pressure being put on us (from the Empire days) to accommodate the world's population from its own problems.
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:12 - Mar 23 with 3066 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:03 - Mar 23 by Juzzie
I think the biggest problem is that on the global scale the British Isles is small in both actual size and population. It really is.
India and the Asian sub-continent is huge. China is huge, the middle east is huge, Africa is huge.
If everyone comes over here then irrespective of the politics and religion, there simply isn't enough room & infrastructure. We simply cannot cope. That's before all the issues of having all these different cultures, faiths etc all trying (or not) to intergrate.
IMO there's too much guilt & pressure being put on us (from the Empire days) to accommodate the world's population from its own problems.
It hasn't suddenly appeared though has it? It's taken 200 years since the invention of the steam boat to get to 12% non British.
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:14 - Mar 23 with 3063 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:14 - Mar 23 by BazzaInTheLoft
Scale is different obviously. But fundamentally the same. Wholesale murder in the name of nationalism, religion, and politics.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2016 16:17]
I'm glad you've acknowledged that the bombings has something to do with religion i.e Islam. You don't hear that very often these days, especially from a self confessed lefty/ liberal.
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:12 - Mar 23 by BazzaInTheLoft
It hasn't suddenly appeared though has it? It's taken 200 years since the invention of the steam boat to get to 12% non British.
Population increase is exponential though.
UK;
World;
Same pattern.
200 hundred years ago there were just under 1 billion people, now it's 8 billion+.
This planet, let alone the UK, cannot cope with this rise.
I read an article a few years about "underground sun". If I recall it was alluding that population growth is linked to our ability to tap into underground resources; oil, iron ore, gold, silver and all other metals, rock of all kinds, salt, coal, minerals, even deep sea fishing. All the while we could just use surface resources (mainly farming/agriculture etc) the population was fairly level.
Once the industrial revolution kicked in and we got better & better at drawing on underground resources the population exploded.
One day they'll all start running out.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2016 16:43]
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:47 - Mar 23 with 2981 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:34 - Mar 23 by Pommyhoop
I'm glad you've acknowledged that the bombings has something to do with religion i.e Islam. You don't hear that very often these days, especially from a self confessed lefty/ liberal.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2016 16:35]
I think you'd have to be mental to not.
It's a broad spectrum though. All Islamic fundemnatalists are Muslim, but not all Muslims are fundamentally Islamic.
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:51 - Mar 23 with 2968 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:40 - Mar 23 by Juzzie
Population increase is exponential though.
UK;
World;
Same pattern.
200 hundred years ago there were just under 1 billion people, now it's 8 billion+.
This planet, let alone the UK, cannot cope with this rise.
I read an article a few years about "underground sun". If I recall it was alluding that population growth is linked to our ability to tap into underground resources; oil, iron ore, gold, silver and all other metals, rock of all kinds, salt, coal, minerals, even deep sea fishing. All the while we could just use surface resources (mainly farming/agriculture etc) the population was fairly level.
Once the industrial revolution kicked in and we got better & better at drawing on underground resources the population exploded.
One day they'll all start running out.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2016 16:43]
The world population is predicted to plateau at 11 billion in 2100.
There will be problems (climate change, migration, water and energy demand) but nothing current and future technology can't cope with.
I put a link to him earlier but research Hans Rosling if you can.
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 15:07 - Mar 23 by kensalriser
Clive, do you see London becoming less than 50% white British as a negative thing?
Whenever I see/hear people talking about white people becoming a minority I think of Hari Kondabolu. The point being that being less than 50% of a population doesn't make you a minority
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 17:03 - Mar 23 with 2943 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 15:26 - Mar 23 by BazzaInTheLoft
Yes that is fair.
I also said every generation will be 'less Muslim' . See Irish, African, and Caribbean immigration since the 50s.
It's not wishful thinking. Granted Islam places a greater taboo on apostasy or disbelief than other religions and cultures, but again this will soften.
I have no idea about the trend in terror attacks. Does anyone? But going on previous terrorism campaigns by other groups it will eventually disappear. I'll admit this is no consolation to the victims in the mean time.
Degree education and social education are different things. The London, Paris and Brussels bombers etc, were used for their warped and exceptional backwards thinking and i'd say no amount of education would have helped them. There will always be those like that. Gun massacres in the states were committed by kids educated about gun safety. Although victims of terrorism number in the hundreds of thousands, the perpetrators would barely fill the Paddocks at LR. They are the exception etc.
It is 100% a ideology problem, but ideologies die. Sometimes suddenly.
"It's not wishful thinking. Granted Islam places a greater taboo on apostasy or disbelief than other religions and cultures, but again this will soften."
Why do you think this will suddenly happen after not happening for 1400 years? Do you accept it is possible that it might not suddenly change as you are expecting?
North Africa used to be part of classical civilisation before it was Islamised over the centuries. Ideologies don't always automatically improve by themselves.
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 17:37 - Mar 23 with 2882 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 17:30 - Mar 23 by Clive_Anderson
"It's not wishful thinking. Granted Islam places a greater taboo on apostasy or disbelief than other religions and cultures, but again this will soften."
Why do you think this will suddenly happen after not happening for 1400 years? Do you accept it is possible that it might not suddenly change as you are expecting?
North Africa used to be part of classical civilisation before it was Islamised over the centuries. Ideologies don't always automatically improve by themselves.
We're talking about islam in the UK arn't we? Islamification of the UK is the core of your worries am I right?
Islam in rural Afghanistan might not have changed in 1400 years but Islam in Europe and the West has, with barbaric exceptions.
There were no Konnie Huqs, Sadiq Khans, or Mo Farahs 1400 years ago.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2016 17:42]
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 17:40 - Mar 23 with 2880 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 17:30 - Mar 23 by Clive_Anderson
"It's not wishful thinking. Granted Islam places a greater taboo on apostasy or disbelief than other religions and cultures, but again this will soften."
Why do you think this will suddenly happen after not happening for 1400 years? Do you accept it is possible that it might not suddenly change as you are expecting?
North Africa used to be part of classical civilisation before it was Islamised over the centuries. Ideologies don't always automatically improve by themselves.
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 17:37 - Mar 23 by BazzaInTheLoft
We're talking about islam in the UK arn't we? Islamification of the UK is the core of your worries am I right?
Islam in rural Afghanistan might not have changed in 1400 years but Islam in Europe and the West has, with barbaric exceptions.
There were no Konnie Huqs, Sadiq Khans, or Mo Farahs 1400 years ago.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2016 17:42]
Islam in rural Afghanistan has changed a lot in the last 30 years. The Bamiyan statues (pre-Islamic, Buddhist) stood for 1500 years until the Taliban blew them up in 2001. Why do you think all change will be to your taste?
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 17:55 - Mar 23 with 2848 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 17:49 - Mar 23 by MrSheen
Islam in rural Afghanistan has changed a lot in the last 30 years. The Bamiyan statues (pre-Islamic, Buddhist) stood for 1500 years until the Taliban blew them up in 2001. Why do you think all change will be to your taste?
I don't and I never said it would.
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 18:00 - Mar 23 with 2823 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:47 - Mar 23 by Pommyhoop
Anyone got a chart for London?
Interestingly there was a dip for a few decades after WWII but has been growing rapidly since the early 90's, as this one shows;
Is this down to birth or immigration?
I think what some may be alluding to is that the indigenous population is being pushed out and replaced by non-indigenous people. It's not about being black or white, racist or non-racist but it's clear there are less and less British people now in London.
And yes, I do feel this is a bad thing in the same way it was bad that indigenous native Indians in America got forced off their land by mainly Europeans (could bringing up that analogy be 'Sioux's Law?'!). I think it's perfectly possible to have these thoughts and concerns without being racist or the fear of being branded so. Is it 'racist' that Spanish people don't like swathes of English people taking over the Costa del Sol?
It's this situation where people are scared of saying anything and of being branded as such that plays straight into the hands of others and they get away with all sorts. We've become afraid to say anything to, or about, non-British people for fear of being branded racist.
As I said recently on another thread, a few months ago I went into a butchers in Hounslow High Street and everyone there was staring at me, the only white English person in the shop. Felt very strange.
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 18:26 - Mar 23 with 2782 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 09:23 - Mar 22 by paulparker
Sorry but its not just a "few" or the "minority" its a very large network behind this with a very large percentage of people & networks who support them its not a lone wolf nutter , that would be a "minority" like it or not we are at war with these people , there is no talking to them now is the time we pull out of Syria and start defending these shores , use our resources to nick or deport those with extreme views , its time we got tough , if those who don't want to be here who hate western values and our cultures let them go elsewhere im sick of this happening and it will keep happening unless we do something
Agree with this.
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 19:16 - Mar 23 with 2718 views
Some pretty remarkable statistics here. Western Europe has had less deaths resulting from terrorist attacks in the last decade than at any time since the 70s.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2016 19:17]
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 19:17 - Mar 23 with 2713 views
I think belief that Islam will get "watered" down or less barbaric as time goes on is beyond wishful thinking. The extreme version that I S follow apparently is Wahabi . Anyone see the documentary on ITV (tuesday night I think it was) using hidden cameras inside Saudi Arabia? It's being churned out over there in schools, mosques and everyday life with a sort of religious police enforcing the population don't stray
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport (n/t) on 19:29 - Mar 23 with 2689 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 16:40 - Mar 23 by Juzzie
Population increase is exponential though.
UK;
World;
Same pattern.
200 hundred years ago there were just under 1 billion people, now it's 8 billion+.
This planet, let alone the UK, cannot cope with this rise.
I read an article a few years about "underground sun". If I recall it was alluding that population growth is linked to our ability to tap into underground resources; oil, iron ore, gold, silver and all other metals, rock of all kinds, salt, coal, minerals, even deep sea fishing. All the while we could just use surface resources (mainly farming/agriculture etc) the population was fairly level.
Once the industrial revolution kicked in and we got better & better at drawing on underground resources the population exploded.
One day they'll all start running out.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2016 16:43]
[Post edited 23 Mar 2016 19:35]
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 19:31 - Mar 23 with 2684 views
Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 19:17 - Mar 23 by Clive_Anderson
"There were no Konnie Huqs, Sadiq Khans, or Mo Farahs 1400 years ago."
Eh? How do you know?
Seems odd to accuse people of tarnishing all Muslims with the same brush and then say there were no good Muslims 1400 years ago.
I'm sure there were good people then much as there is now, but the it's the underlying ideology that is the problem hence the lack of any improvement.
North Africa was the UK of its time before Islam showed up.
Never said there were no good Muslims 1400 years ago.
Muslims at one point were the leading drivers of science and discovery.
I can safely say with some confidence, that there were not millions of westernised muslims who 1400 years ago successfully adapted their culture and beliefs to the country they, or their parents, or their grandparents moved to.
Anyway it feels like we are both pissing in the wind here so let's save our time and energy eh.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2016 19:33]
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Two explosions this morning at Brussels Airport on 19:36 - Mar 23 with 2666 views
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