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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 20:09 - Sep 13 by flyerdale
University toffs who ridiculed the poor and working class as part of the Bullingdon club. These people despise even the middle classes never mind the working classes and poor. I really can't believe anybody other than the elite believe the crap and policies Cameron is imposing on the public of this country. WAKE UP ffs
I was born to a single mother and lived in a council house for the first eleven years of my life. My Grandparents and Mother have always had low paid jobs, yet I have always been a Tory supporter. Rather than let my circumstance dictate my future I worked hard at school and have been lucky enough to have a job of some form since the age of 11. Not every job has been that exciting or well paid but through hard work and dedication I have made a decent career.
In my opinion the Tory's manage the economy better which provides more opportunities for people to help themselves and provide for their families through work. One of my sisters who is totally non political voted for the Tories at the last election as in her words 'Labour care more for immigrants and the unemployed, whereas Tory policies are favour people who work and their families.' She especially cited the free childcare provision and increases in personal allowance.
So that is at least two people who are far from elite who believe in the policies of Cameron. To say people need to wake up is insulting. People are entitled to hold different opinions without being insulted. You will entirely disagree with this post, but I will certainly not reply to your opinions in such a manner as you have done to others.
[Post edited 13 Sep 2015 20:44]
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 20:47 - Sep 13 with 3070 views
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 20:38 - Sep 13 by isitme
I was born to a single mother and lived in a council house for the first eleven years of my life. My Grandparents and Mother have always had low paid jobs, yet I have always been a Tory supporter. Rather than let my circumstance dictate my future I worked hard at school and have been lucky enough to have a job of some form since the age of 11. Not every job has been that exciting or well paid but through hard work and dedication I have made a decent career.
In my opinion the Tory's manage the economy better which provides more opportunities for people to help themselves and provide for their families through work. One of my sisters who is totally non political voted for the Tories at the last election as in her words 'Labour care more for immigrants and the unemployed, whereas Tory policies are favour people who work and their families.' She especially cited the free childcare provision and increases in personal allowance.
So that is at least two people who are far from elite who believe in the policies of Cameron. To say people need to wake up is insulting. People are entitled to hold different opinions without being insulted. You will entirely disagree with this post, but I will certainly not reply to your opinions in such a manner as you have done to others.
[Post edited 13 Sep 2015 20:44]
How you can take my post so personally I will never know. Having an opinion on politics means others will disagree. Thanks for the life story though. Agree to disagree but maybe once the tenure of call me Dave is up you may just change your mind. Don't take general opinions so personally
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 07:16 - Sep 14 with 2934 views
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 03:50 - Sep 14 by flyerdale
How you can take my post so personally I will never know. Having an opinion on politics means others will disagree. Thanks for the life story though. Agree to disagree but maybe once the tenure of call me Dave is up you may just change your mind. Don't take general opinions so personally
I did not take your opinion personally, although I did use mine and other's personal experiences to explain why some people, who are not the elite favour the policies pursued by the Conservative Party which is what you asked earlier in the thread when you posted 'I can't believe anybody other than the elite ...'
What I do not agree with is the tone of your earlier post where you said that people who do not believe in your point of view regarding the Tory's need to wake up. As you say having an opinion on politics means that others will disagree, that does not mean they are stupid or some type of leper if that is something your find unpalatable.
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 12:39 - Sep 14 with 2847 views
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 12:35 - Sep 13 by mingthemerciless
Me , I've worked in the Engineering Industry in Rochdale nearly all my life. I'm 66 now but I'm still doing a bit. I know all about getting my hands dirty, do you ?
Your previous statement about people today never having had it so good made my head spin.
Have you walked down Yorkshire street recently ? If you mean we've never had this many pound shops, charity shops, bookies and pawnbrokers you're definitely right.
Regarding the mythical centre ground that the left is being accused of moving away from. I've got news for you, the Tories moved it over to the right years ago and are still moving it further to the right as we speak. The recent Labour governments made no attempt to return to a true centre ground, they just slavishly aped Tory thinking most of the time. Then they wonder why the electorate deserted them
People are fed up the way this country is being run for the benefit of the City spivs and their pals. I read today that before Thatcher and Blair came to power 2% of the workforce worked in " finance " , now it's 8%. The Tories got in this time not because they were liked or respected but because the electorate liked what they saw in the Labour Party less !
Have I got my hands dirty?
Yes. I've wiped literally hundreds of arses, including many belonging to people who were no longer in control of their sphincter. Furthermore, I was proud to do so. Sorry, but valuable though it is, engineering comes nowhere near.
Have I walked down Yorkshire Street lately? Erm... yes, and actually I'm trying to do summat about the state of it. What are you doing, apart from spewing out the hot air I referred to in a previous post?
As for making your head spin, it's no surprise. Economics in the real world is difficult enough for anyone to get their head round - but more so if you believe that socialism is capable of generating wealth, when every socialist regime in history has led to failure, poverty and worse - tyranny.
Action, not platitudes, reaches the parts that neither the left or the right wings can reach. When you're doing something positive, let me know.
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 12:39 - Sep 14 by D_Alien
Have I got my hands dirty?
Yes. I've wiped literally hundreds of arses, including many belonging to people who were no longer in control of their sphincter. Furthermore, I was proud to do so. Sorry, but valuable though it is, engineering comes nowhere near.
Have I walked down Yorkshire Street lately? Erm... yes, and actually I'm trying to do summat about the state of it. What are you doing, apart from spewing out the hot air I referred to in a previous post?
As for making your head spin, it's no surprise. Economics in the real world is difficult enough for anyone to get their head round - but more so if you believe that socialism is capable of generating wealth, when every socialist regime in history has led to failure, poverty and worse - tyranny.
Action, not platitudes, reaches the parts that neither the left or the right wings can reach. When you're doing something positive, let me know.
[Post edited 14 Sep 2015 12:56]
100% agree, Labour won't get in based on their policies and the lack of proportional representation in this country. We have had 36 years of capitalism, you can't turn back the clock with unsustainable economic policies whose cost outweighs the benefits to be gained. I do, however, agree with the scrapping of HS2.
Still more than 4 years of spending cuts to suffer yet, will there be sizeable public sector spending to rescue? Not a fan of Labour's throwing money at the public sector to solve problems and this guy will be no different.
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 15:56 - Sep 14 with 2749 views
The benefits of his politics have been done to death - personally think they are misguided to say the least.
But more than that is his personal politics: "friends" with Hamas; Hezbollah; IRA(?), as well as support for the likes of Putin and Chavez. We seem to measure every other politician on the personal merits as well as the political but because jezza has such a principled political postion - the left have forgotten all about this...
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 18:40 - Sep 14 with 2715 views
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 12:39 - Sep 14 by D_Alien
Have I got my hands dirty?
Yes. I've wiped literally hundreds of arses, including many belonging to people who were no longer in control of their sphincter. Furthermore, I was proud to do so. Sorry, but valuable though it is, engineering comes nowhere near.
Have I walked down Yorkshire Street lately? Erm... yes, and actually I'm trying to do summat about the state of it. What are you doing, apart from spewing out the hot air I referred to in a previous post?
As for making your head spin, it's no surprise. Economics in the real world is difficult enough for anyone to get their head round - but more so if you believe that socialism is capable of generating wealth, when every socialist regime in history has led to failure, poverty and worse - tyranny.
Action, not platitudes, reaches the parts that neither the left or the right wings can reach. When you're doing something positive, let me know.
[Post edited 14 Sep 2015 12:56]
I take it you work for the NHS. If the Tories would have had their way when the NHS was mooted you would have never had a job in the first place.
Maybe you would like a privatised health service ?
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 18:40 - Sep 14 by mingthemerciless
I take it you work for the NHS. If the Tories would have had their way when the NHS was mooted you would have never had a job in the first place.
Maybe you would like a privatised health service ?
Credit to the original vision from 70 years ago by Nye Bevan and co in the aftermath of WW2. As I posted earlier, we must be compassionate and help those who need our help. Why do you choose to ignore that?
In fact, your question is pretty disgusting to be honest, revealing more about your lack of understanding of what I've posted than anything else.
Back in 1945, the world was a very different place. Fast forward to 2015, and cancer survival rates in the NHS at five years from diagnosis lag behind virtually every developed nation on the planet. The billions of pounds the Labour administrations from 1997-2010 poured into the NHS were utterly wasted - I know, I was right there in the middle of it.
Future funding of the NHS - free at the point of use - to meet the challenges of demographic changes and advances in technology will require an economy capable of generating huge amounts of tax revenues from profitable companies and individuals working within them. These require competitive entrepreneurial skills which flourish only in a capitalist economy.
You clearly have little understanding of these issues, so that's my last word.
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 18:59 - Sep 13 by Brierls
I know very little about politics. I don't really care about politics. But I simply can not see Corbyn as PM.
If my novice view is a common one, what the bloody hell are Labour's members thinking of?!
Totally agree. Somebody who has just won a historically unprecedented election victory is totally unelectable. Hate politics? You've all the credentials to be a pollster.
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 04:00 - Sep 13 by flyerdale
No I don't and only bomb if its justified. I am more concerned about how citizens of this country are treated by governments who only look after the elite classes. That OK for you after your wrong judgement of me?
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 20:12 - Sep 14 by BigDaveMyCock
Totally agree. Somebody who has just won a historically unprecedented election victory is totally unelectable. Hate politics? You've all the credentials to be a pollster.
Toni Polster? Austrian (ex) goal machine.
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 21:15 - Sep 14 with 2582 views
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 20:00 - Sep 14 by D_Alien
Credit to the original vision from 70 years ago by Nye Bevan and co in the aftermath of WW2. As I posted earlier, we must be compassionate and help those who need our help. Why do you choose to ignore that?
In fact, your question is pretty disgusting to be honest, revealing more about your lack of understanding of what I've posted than anything else.
Back in 1945, the world was a very different place. Fast forward to 2015, and cancer survival rates in the NHS at five years from diagnosis lag behind virtually every developed nation on the planet. The billions of pounds the Labour administrations from 1997-2010 poured into the NHS were utterly wasted - I know, I was right there in the middle of it.
Future funding of the NHS - free at the point of use - to meet the challenges of demographic changes and advances in technology will require an economy capable of generating huge amounts of tax revenues from profitable companies and individuals working within them. These require competitive entrepreneurial skills which flourish only in a capitalist economy.
You clearly have little understanding of these issues, so that's my last word.
[Post edited 14 Sep 2015 20:02]
Fair enough, there's nothing much else I can say when I'm obviously debating with a genius.
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 01:24 - Sep 15 with 2514 views
Didn't I read somewhere recently that 'call me Dave' appointed someone to the upper chamber who decided it was reasonable to charge his moat cleaning to the British taxpayer.
Hopefully the 300 quid a day he gets from the taxpayer will be enough to cover future moat cleanings.
Yes there is no room for people like JC in british politics...he doesnt screw the taxpayer. Check out his expense claims
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 03:59 - Sep 15 with 2504 views
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 20:38 - Sep 13 by isitme
I was born to a single mother and lived in a council house for the first eleven years of my life. My Grandparents and Mother have always had low paid jobs, yet I have always been a Tory supporter. Rather than let my circumstance dictate my future I worked hard at school and have been lucky enough to have a job of some form since the age of 11. Not every job has been that exciting or well paid but through hard work and dedication I have made a decent career.
In my opinion the Tory's manage the economy better which provides more opportunities for people to help themselves and provide for their families through work. One of my sisters who is totally non political voted for the Tories at the last election as in her words 'Labour care more for immigrants and the unemployed, whereas Tory policies are favour people who work and their families.' She especially cited the free childcare provision and increases in personal allowance.
So that is at least two people who are far from elite who believe in the policies of Cameron. To say people need to wake up is insulting. People are entitled to hold different opinions without being insulted. You will entirely disagree with this post, but I will certainly not reply to your opinions in such a manner as you have done to others.
[Post edited 13 Sep 2015 20:44]
"So that is at least two people who are far from elite who believe in the policies"
Make that 3. Although it does not have as much significance any more.
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 08:29 - Sep 15 with 2455 views
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 07:16 - Sep 14 by isitme
I did not take your opinion personally, although I did use mine and other's personal experiences to explain why some people, who are not the elite favour the policies pursued by the Conservative Party which is what you asked earlier in the thread when you posted 'I can't believe anybody other than the elite ...'
What I do not agree with is the tone of your earlier post where you said that people who do not believe in your point of view regarding the Tory's need to wake up. As you say having an opinion on politics means that others will disagree, that does not mean they are stupid or some type of leper if that is something your find unpalatable.
What tone? I just made a statement yes it's not what you believe in but its of my opinion. Where have I said people are stupid ? This is all just weird and your trying to drag me into an argument for arguments sake because you don't agree with me.
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 11:23 - Sep 17 with 2300 views
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 20:00 - Sep 14 by D_Alien
Credit to the original vision from 70 years ago by Nye Bevan and co in the aftermath of WW2. As I posted earlier, we must be compassionate and help those who need our help. Why do you choose to ignore that?
In fact, your question is pretty disgusting to be honest, revealing more about your lack of understanding of what I've posted than anything else.
Back in 1945, the world was a very different place. Fast forward to 2015, and cancer survival rates in the NHS at five years from diagnosis lag behind virtually every developed nation on the planet. The billions of pounds the Labour administrations from 1997-2010 poured into the NHS were utterly wasted - I know, I was right there in the middle of it.
Future funding of the NHS - free at the point of use - to meet the challenges of demographic changes and advances in technology will require an economy capable of generating huge amounts of tax revenues from profitable companies and individuals working within them. These require competitive entrepreneurial skills which flourish only in a capitalist economy.
You clearly have little understanding of these issues, so that's my last word.
[Post edited 14 Sep 2015 20:02]
...Or start charging for the NHS. We have an ageing population with increased life expectancy resulting in more burden being placed on the NHS. The concept of a free NHS is now over with.
Not stating we should go completely private but we could go more down the Dutch route of providing 80% of health care free and it is up to the person to purchase the remaining 20% on top.
70% of A&E's weekly traffic comes from alcohol related injuries - charge them.
If you start with the amount of money that is required to support the NHS to deliver a balanced budget and then convert that to the requirement from the tax and then convert that to the revenue influx required within the country you will end up with the GDP of a few eastern European countries combined.
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 12:50 - Sep 17 with 2245 views
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 11:23 - Sep 17 by watford_dale
...Or start charging for the NHS. We have an ageing population with increased life expectancy resulting in more burden being placed on the NHS. The concept of a free NHS is now over with.
Not stating we should go completely private but we could go more down the Dutch route of providing 80% of health care free and it is up to the person to purchase the remaining 20% on top.
70% of A&E's weekly traffic comes from alcohol related injuries - charge them.
If you start with the amount of money that is required to support the NHS to deliver a balanced budget and then convert that to the requirement from the tax and then convert that to the revenue influx required within the country you will end up with the GDP of a few eastern European countries combined.
OK, I said I'd posted my last word, but since you've contributed something worth commenting on...
It's something the NHS already does - charging - in specific instances, such as foreign nationals seeking treatment whilst "visiting" the UK. There's a moral duty to do this, I believe, to discourage health tourism.
However, the wider extension of this principle could end up as an administrative nightmare, with the NHS spending almost as much income as was generated in chasing up the payments - and perhaps more importantly - the time and focus being taken away from the actual delivery of quality healthcare.
It'd be interesting to see how others such as the Dutch deliver this, and I've no doubt NHS England will be very well aware of most successful models of financing healthcare across the globe. The over-riding principle would need to remain one of healthcare provision which the poorest in society could take up without a second thought to whether they could afford it or not.
This principle needs to be set against the significant amount of NHS resource currently being utilised to meet the demands of unhealthy lifestyles. The focus right now needs to be on finding ways to deter people from over-eating, over-drinking (I love a drink myself) and smoking. Some of the reasons for admission to hospital or attendance at A&E would've had Bevan turning in his grave.
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 12:50 - Sep 17 by D_Alien
OK, I said I'd posted my last word, but since you've contributed something worth commenting on...
It's something the NHS already does - charging - in specific instances, such as foreign nationals seeking treatment whilst "visiting" the UK. There's a moral duty to do this, I believe, to discourage health tourism.
However, the wider extension of this principle could end up as an administrative nightmare, with the NHS spending almost as much income as was generated in chasing up the payments - and perhaps more importantly - the time and focus being taken away from the actual delivery of quality healthcare.
It'd be interesting to see how others such as the Dutch deliver this, and I've no doubt NHS England will be very well aware of most successful models of financing healthcare across the globe. The over-riding principle would need to remain one of healthcare provision which the poorest in society could take up without a second thought to whether they could afford it or not.
This principle needs to be set against the significant amount of NHS resource currently being utilised to meet the demands of unhealthy lifestyles. The focus right now needs to be on finding ways to deter people from over-eating, over-drinking (I love a drink myself) and smoking. Some of the reasons for admission to hospital or attendance at A&E would've had Bevan turning in his grave.
Your points in your last paragraph are the key. When people overeat, smoke and drink ( I also drink quite a bit !!) you are not immediately sick in most cases. The bill to the health service comes later. However money for preventative education/treatment is spent now. I still don't think governments understand ( or want to understand) the need to spend now on prevention for a saving in later years.
The science of health economics has come a long way and always suggest prevention is better if it can be implemented. However it is one of those cases where governments ( not just in the UK) are only looking at today
Some form of "penalty" via a co-payment sounds logical where you have partly brought the issue on yourself, but the reality is that it would be difficult to implement. There was a bit of an outcry i think in Wythenshaw hospital in the 80s/90s where smokers went lower down the waiting list for cardiac surgery even though medically it made sense to use limited resource on non smokers. Also a bit of an outcry when George Best got a liver transplant but continued to drink
NHS and it's funding is going to be a difficult and controversial topic for years to come irrespective of who is in power
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 13:54 - Sep 17 with 2197 views
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 12:50 - Sep 17 by D_Alien
OK, I said I'd posted my last word, but since you've contributed something worth commenting on...
It's something the NHS already does - charging - in specific instances, such as foreign nationals seeking treatment whilst "visiting" the UK. There's a moral duty to do this, I believe, to discourage health tourism.
However, the wider extension of this principle could end up as an administrative nightmare, with the NHS spending almost as much income as was generated in chasing up the payments - and perhaps more importantly - the time and focus being taken away from the actual delivery of quality healthcare.
It'd be interesting to see how others such as the Dutch deliver this, and I've no doubt NHS England will be very well aware of most successful models of financing healthcare across the globe. The over-riding principle would need to remain one of healthcare provision which the poorest in society could take up without a second thought to whether they could afford it or not.
This principle needs to be set against the significant amount of NHS resource currently being utilised to meet the demands of unhealthy lifestyles. The focus right now needs to be on finding ways to deter people from over-eating, over-drinking (I love a drink myself) and smoking. Some of the reasons for admission to hospital or attendance at A&E would've had Bevan turning in his grave.
"This principle needs to be set against the significant amount of NHS resource currently being utilised to meet the demands of unhealthy lifestyles. The focus right now needs to be on finding ways to deter people from over-eating, over-drinking (I love a drink myself) and smoking."
No doubt about that and this principle extends beyond the NHS too. We were flying back from hols recently and my g/f and I were debating the "fairness" of the airline charging £16/kg for luggage that was over weight. I am no stick insect myself but there were people on that flight who were easily 25kg heavier than me but flew at the same price. Might even have been people paying the same price and were 25kg less than me.
Whilst being taxed for "lifestyle choices" is a grey area, we all have to pay the piper eventually anyway. Never stopped me indulging in the occasional rag pudding at the WL chippy though.
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 13:54 - Sep 17 by DaleiLama
"This principle needs to be set against the significant amount of NHS resource currently being utilised to meet the demands of unhealthy lifestyles. The focus right now needs to be on finding ways to deter people from over-eating, over-drinking (I love a drink myself) and smoking."
No doubt about that and this principle extends beyond the NHS too. We were flying back from hols recently and my g/f and I were debating the "fairness" of the airline charging £16/kg for luggage that was over weight. I am no stick insect myself but there were people on that flight who were easily 25kg heavier than me but flew at the same price. Might even have been people paying the same price and were 25kg less than me.
Whilst being taxed for "lifestyle choices" is a grey area, we all have to pay the piper eventually anyway. Never stopped me indulging in the occasional rag pudding at the WL chippy though.
[Post edited 17 Sep 2015 13:57]
" Never stopped me indulging in the occasional rag pudding at the WL chippy though"
Much healthier than indulging in rag pudding behind the WL chippy
New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 11:23 - Sep 17 by watford_dale
...Or start charging for the NHS. We have an ageing population with increased life expectancy resulting in more burden being placed on the NHS. The concept of a free NHS is now over with.
Not stating we should go completely private but we could go more down the Dutch route of providing 80% of health care free and it is up to the person to purchase the remaining 20% on top.
70% of A&E's weekly traffic comes from alcohol related injuries - charge them.
If you start with the amount of money that is required to support the NHS to deliver a balanced budget and then convert that to the requirement from the tax and then convert that to the revenue influx required within the country you will end up with the GDP of a few eastern European countries combined.
Funny how we seemingly can't afford a free NHS anymore but have absolutely no issue in spending 100 billion in renewing Trident.
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New Labour and Blairism consigned to the dust bin of history on 18:16 - Sep 17 with 2073 views
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