| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? 11:48 - Mar 25 with 1478 views | saint901 |
There's a thread on here about how an average Champ player lives a live cushioned by a large salary which allows him to enjoy a big house and expensive car and no doubt other luxuries. And yes this is a charmed life but there are also some hard facts ignored in looking at his lifestyle.
I've worked with a few players and the following is all from their stories.
Had a client who joined us age 18 on the insistence of his parents. He was earning at that time around 4x the national wage and had just signed his first full time contract. He was playing for the junior teams but was expected to be a first term player within a season. Boxing Day he was training and tweaked his knee. Three months later he was told he would never play again. Within another three months he was paid out of his contract and on the job market. No educational qualifications, no work experience, no support network.
Next client was a first team player. He had addiction issues. We spoke with his club who were frankly not interested. He fell further and further into debt, his mental and physical health suffered, he dropped out the first team. Within two years was out of football. Took another three years of therapy for him to find his way again. Now works in sports agency trying to sign players.
He firmly believes that a lack of structure in his life outside training and a lack of program from the club which may have seen him develop in other areas of his life, caused his addiction problems which cost him his career, all his money and the fact that his now grown children don't talk to him.
Next client was a first team benchwarmer for many seasons. Eventually had enough and moved down a league or two. Found that his benchwarmer salary was sufficient for his lifestyle, but not the salary from a few divisions lower. Struggled to cope with the drop in lifestyle and had a number of financial, relationship and health issues. he was lucky in that his wife was supportive and he is now a coach at a pro club.
Next client was a first team player and had more money than he knew what to do with. The vultures found him and he entered a series of misadvised tax avoidance and "investment" opportunities all of which went wrong and we spent three years untangling them. Left him with perhaps a fifth of what he thought he should have after five seasons at the top level.
Finally had a client who played at a good level until his mid 30's. Drifted into the lower leagues and then semi pro. Finally finished in his early 40's. Has since had several major surgeries and operations and still cannot walk without sticks. (He's 52). There is no chance of him being pain free for the rest of his life and all of his interactions with his family and friends is driven by this fact. He's also exhausted his medical insurance and so operations to come are all at the convenience of the NHS.
So yes, players who make it past the youth ranks who have a career in the first team and these days take advantage of club programs to help them after football who invest wisely and look to the future, have a very nice life. It may be a brief few years in the sunshine. Would you think about this job given the above? |  | | |  |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 12:01 - Mar 25 with 1440 views | PatfromPoole |
Nobody is forced to be a professional footballer.
These people all have the option in life to go down whichever career path they feel best suited to.
When a scuffling left-back with very little ability and a bone-idle striker can both become millionaires in a pretty short space of time, my sympathy and empathy for the average player's struggles starts to wane somewhat. |  |
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 12:19 - Mar 25 with 1424 views | SaintNick |
I see your points and clubs these days do seem to look after players welfare a little bit more when a decade or so ago it was non existent.
It's sad to read these stories, but hard to sympathise, the 18 year old so at 4 times the national wage would have been on around £120k a year, so injury ends his career and he gets paid off £300 - 400k depending on his contract.
It's sad he has no educational qualifications, no work experience and no support network, but then again nor did those who were in the youth team with him and got dumped at 18 as they werent good enough and then those who have lived normal lives and it will take them 10 years to earn what he has been paid off.
some of the stories seem to be of people who had no interest in providing for the future and spent money like it was going out of fashion.
I'm sorry but the connection here is that they all had more money than the rest of us and when things went wrong they couldnt cope, i have sympathy for the man living in a house in Millbrook who is made redundant and is sat there wondering how he is going to pay the rent and buy his children birthday presents than footballers who had it and then wasted it.
Yes there were mitigating circumstances, but bad luck isnt being paid off a large contract or addiction issues or even just being unable to cope with a drop in lifestyle.
I don't begrudge footballers their money, I just have little sympathy for them when it dries up and they find themselves with nothing.
Yeah I would think about the job given the above, it is a chance in a lifetime, but I wouldnt whinge about it if It all went wrong, I would get on with life and be grateful that I had the chance |  |
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 12:56 - Mar 25 with 1397 views | SonicBoom |
Aside from just feeling sympathy for someone that struggles, are they any different from everyone else. they just have more money.
We are all unsupervised once we leave work and some people do alright in life and some people start drinking or drugs or get depression. It doesn't seem something peculiar to footballers, it's just a bit more a surprise as they seem to have more advantages. |  | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 13:59 - Mar 25 with 1358 views | sledger |
almost brought a tear to my eye,almost. | | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 14:21 - Mar 25 with 1346 views | solent_toffee |
Until last year, I spent eight and a half years working in football (for the EFL Trust) and spent most weeks with one club or another up and down the country. It’s a brutal business. Obviously if you are one of top percentage who remain injury and relatively trouble free, the riches are beyond what most ‘normal’ people can imagine.
But as you say, there are loads that don’t make it who end up with no qualifications, no career options and no support. Loads within the game don’t get the right advice or support, even when offered it by the PFA. Many are one injury away from leaving themselves in a vulnerable situation. Careers advice just isn’t there, despite what the PFA might say and the pressure from parents, family, agents etc can be unbearable. I’ve spoken to players who were told not to mention mental health issues to the club for fear that they wouldn’t be given a new contract. These were young players told by their agents.
And then there’s the peer pressure from fellow players.
As I say, it’s a brutal business that is not a reflection on society or a normal workplace. | | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 15:10 - Mar 25 with 1287 views | saint901 |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 12:01 - Mar 25 by PatfromPoole |
Nobody is forced to be a professional footballer.
These people all have the option in life to go down whichever career path they feel best suited to.
When a scuffling left-back with very little ability and a bone-idle striker can both become millionaires in a pretty short space of time, my sympathy and empathy for the average player's struggles starts to wane somewhat. |
Bone idle?
Many top players in the game have natural talents such as great CV fitness, perfect timing, quick over a short distance, etc. That is not enough and all of these talents need to be honed and practiced and perfected and then do it all again.
The salary level is not a product of their talent, their ability to train or whether they spend a hour a week training of five hours a day. It's a product of the way the game is marketed and funded.
TV companies will pay literally billions for rights because they know that their advertisers will pay more. Billions coming into the game mean that the top clubs want top talent and to get that the market dictates the price.
Players are no different to top class entertainers - how much is Taylor Swift worth? (Just north of $1bn apparently). No different to movie stars. No different to those who can spot financial gaps for hedge funds. They are all millionaires (at least) because they have a rare talent that they have all taken time to perfect.
Money never buys happiness or contentment or even a sense of achievement. I've met millionaires who hate their lives. I've met people who literally survive from one wage to the next who have their health, their family and their friends and who want nothing else. Please do not equate money with anything. | | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 15:19 - Mar 25 with 1278 views | saint901 |
"Yeah I would think about the job given the above, it is a chance in a lifetime, but I wouldnt whinge about it if It all went wrong, I would get on with life and be grateful that I had the chance"
Good advice.
I was part of a cohort of young players training with Saints. At 14 there were perhaps 30+ of us. By 16, half that. In those days first pro contract was at 18 and that was the final cut. Make it past that and a life in pro football was yours.
I failed that cut. Perhaps six of us failed it. The rest joined what was then the youth team and of them only two went on to full pro. One at Saints and one at Bournemouth and then Norwich.
I was lucky and accidentally found a job I loved and was good at and still do it. Most of the other boys eventually found a way to be happy and successful in their own ways. All bar two.
One spent a few years in self destruct mode before becoming a plumber and then a counsellor for those battling addiction. He absolutely had the talent but not the necessary application.
The other ended his own life at age 25 after the latest in a series of injuries playing semi pro.
Absolutely find your own way and don't criticise those making the most of talent granted them for a few short years. | | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 17:44 - Mar 25 with 1189 views | NYC_Saint |
I thought this was a very interesting read. It's very true that a lot of wealthy, successful people are not happy and that we should not equate money with happiness. The commonality through all of this is that there is no support or eduction for the players. They should be helped to understand putting money aside is critical and that injury will cut many careers very far short of their potential.
I can understand people not feeling sorry for them - it's one hell of an opportunity most of us would love to have (as I've said before, I'd play for saints for free if I was good enough!). Personally I do empathize that they often have smoke blown up them by agents, "friends" etc that just want their pound of flesh. When it all goes wrong no one is there for them and the "if only" thoughts would take a long to to recover from.
Also a good reminder the grass isn't always that much greener despite the Range Rover and big house showed in the Manning video. | | | |
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 17:54 - Mar 25 with 1171 views | Southamptonfan |
In relation to the Manning thread, of course money doesn't buy happiness and anyone can develop depression and the rest of it. But the point is, doctors, nurses, members of the services, carers, plumbers whoever, get paid much, much, much less and don't get a free breakfast, a free lunch, an afternoon to do whatever they want, plus high luxury. Nurses have to pay for a parking space at the hospital and no free food in sight and they are working 12 hour shifts saving lives.
The point is, I hope these players realise how priveledged and lucky they are to be paid so much money to "work" what 3 hours a day? I would suggest they don't have a clue how hard it is for the majority, in the real world. I would argue that the addiction problems come about as they have so much money and time, that they don't know what to do with it. [Post edited 25 Mar 17:58]
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 19:14 - Mar 25 with 1126 views | sledger |
why are pro footballers problems any different from the man in the street,surely its all part of life and the cards you are dealt | | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 09:18 - Mar 26 with 986 views | saint901 |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 17:54 - Mar 25 by Southamptonfan |
In relation to the Manning thread, of course money doesn't buy happiness and anyone can develop depression and the rest of it. But the point is, doctors, nurses, members of the services, carers, plumbers whoever, get paid much, much, much less and don't get a free breakfast, a free lunch, an afternoon to do whatever they want, plus high luxury. Nurses have to pay for a parking space at the hospital and no free food in sight and they are working 12 hour shifts saving lives.
The point is, I hope these players realise how priveledged and lucky they are to be paid so much money to "work" what 3 hours a day? I would suggest they don't have a clue how hard it is for the majority, in the real world. I would argue that the addiction problems come about as they have so much money and time, that they don't know what to do with it. [Post edited 25 Mar 17:58]
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The problem here is that people do not get paid according to their value to society.
That is not a product of individual skill or application or hard work but a function of economics.
The NHS is funded by tax paid by most of the working population. That tax take will vary according to how well the economy is performing. It's also a fact that medical science advances and the glittery prizes of cures for cancer and other conditions are eye wateringly expensive. So does the NHS spend money on nurses and providing a base level of care (which would please those wishing to see nurses paid more) or do they spend money providing cutting edge treatments.
We, the voting public, are greedy and we want both but we're not prepared to see our taxes increase to do it. If we granted every NHS worker below the grade of consultant a 10% wage rise, taxes need to go up around 0.5% to 1% - every year.
To blame a well paid footballer for a broken economic model seems harsh and is certainly unfair.
If we don't like the fact that entertainers and sports players and bang average presenters on TV get 2 or 3 times the salary of a nurse or a street cleaner or a road mender, then get elected and change the system.
As for not a clue about the real world, I would say that 90% of those I've met have parents unconnected with sports and who have jobs ranging from IT specialists to factory workers. Most of those parents have spent years ferrying the kids around to games, training camps and training. The kids almost certainly know how hard their parents have worked to give them the opportunity and how difficult real life can be.
I would also hesitate to lay the blame for addiction at the feet of having too much time. I'm sure that is part of the equation but there is also a chemical reason and a mental health reason. There is also opportunity. Some become addicted to drugs, others to video games.
Don't get my defence of players wrong here. They are immensely privileged and whilst most are grateful for the chance and make the most of it, some frankly do not and arguably don't deserve to be defended. | | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 09:27 - Mar 26 with 981 views | SaintNick |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 09:18 - Mar 26 by saint901 |
The problem here is that people do not get paid according to their value to society.
That is not a product of individual skill or application or hard work but a function of economics.
The NHS is funded by tax paid by most of the working population. That tax take will vary according to how well the economy is performing. It's also a fact that medical science advances and the glittery prizes of cures for cancer and other conditions are eye wateringly expensive. So does the NHS spend money on nurses and providing a base level of care (which would please those wishing to see nurses paid more) or do they spend money providing cutting edge treatments.
We, the voting public, are greedy and we want both but we're not prepared to see our taxes increase to do it. If we granted every NHS worker below the grade of consultant a 10% wage rise, taxes need to go up around 0.5% to 1% - every year.
To blame a well paid footballer for a broken economic model seems harsh and is certainly unfair.
If we don't like the fact that entertainers and sports players and bang average presenters on TV get 2 or 3 times the salary of a nurse or a street cleaner or a road mender, then get elected and change the system.
As for not a clue about the real world, I would say that 90% of those I've met have parents unconnected with sports and who have jobs ranging from IT specialists to factory workers. Most of those parents have spent years ferrying the kids around to games, training camps and training. The kids almost certainly know how hard their parents have worked to give them the opportunity and how difficult real life can be.
I would also hesitate to lay the blame for addiction at the feet of having too much time. I'm sure that is part of the equation but there is also a chemical reason and a mental health reason. There is also opportunity. Some become addicted to drugs, others to video games.
Don't get my defence of players wrong here. They are immensely privileged and whilst most are grateful for the chance and make the most of it, some frankly do not and arguably don't deserve to be defended. |
You have brought a very well reasoned and well presented debate to the table here, i would suspect that like most areas of life, there is a majority who are decent human beings who just get on with life, but they are tarred with the same brush as a minority who make the headlines for all the wrong reasons.
I would also add that I dont get upset that a player spends his money on what he likes and can afford, sometimes i think people expect a player who is out of form to hide away, sell his expensive car and drive an old banger until they hit form again.
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 10:04 - Mar 26 with 967 views | saintwizzler |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 19:14 - Mar 25 by sledger |
why are pro footballers problems any different from the man in the street,surely its all part of life and the cards you are dealt |
You would of thought so but having a lot of money brings problems as well as not having money does.
It’s down to the individual how they deal with these problems.
Employing a trusted PA/chauffeur and a chat with a financial advisor would surely be wise for any overnight millionaire when signing a contract.
WE MARCH ON |  |
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 11:05 - Mar 26 with 954 views | GRIM |
If you compare a Premier lge players salary with that of our Prime minister.
Majority of Premier players earn (or should I say get) more in one week than the PM gets in a year.
I know which job I'd rather have. | | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 12:02 - Mar 26 with 920 views | saint901 |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 10:04 - Mar 26 by saintwizzler |
You would of thought so but having a lot of money brings problems as well as not having money does.
It’s down to the individual how they deal with these problems.
Employing a trusted PA/chauffeur and a chat with a financial advisor would surely be wise for any overnight millionaire when signing a contract.
WE MARCH ON |
My experience with footballers (and entertainers) is that the successful go from (relatively) low incomes to super high incomes very quickly and that is a function of their career taking off.
They therefore tend to have many, many things going on in their lives and no time to interview financial advisers to see who they can trust or get on with. Instead they go with whatever their agent says and that is where the problems can start.
True story.
I knew a football agent with a good number of established and younger players on his book. He had an agreement with a financial adviser who would take on his clients. The agent got pad a commission. That commission was worth perhaps £500k a year.
A different financial adviser came along and offered a "better" services which also paid more commission. The agent switched and int he nest year got close to £1m in commission. (who do you think paid for that?).
The new financial adviser needed to make super returns and turned to tax avoidance schemes. These work for a short time and they inevitably crash and burn. The financial adviser did very well for two/three years, then skipped the country when HMRC got too close.
The players were involved in a tax enquiry for about four years. Cost them a fortune. Instead of making a few percent post tax on their savings, the player actually lost about 20% of their money. Plus another 10% in fees.
And the agent? carried on, moved to another financial outfit, took commissions and claimed that the financial adviser fooled him as well.
We are in Court later this year suing the agent for negligence. | | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 12:03 - Mar 26 with 919 views | SaintNick |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 11:05 - Mar 26 by GRIM |
If you compare a Premier lge players salary with that of our Prime minister.
Majority of Premier players earn (or should I say get) more in one week than the PM gets in a year.
I know which job I'd rather have. |
Yes The PM seems to have got less of a rough ride than Ryan Manning lately so PM for me | |
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 09:56 - Mar 27 with 792 views | GRIM |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 12:03 - Mar 26 by SaintNick |
Yes The PM seems to have got less of a rough ride than Ryan Manning lately so PM for me |
You'd make a good PM Nick.
You'll get my vote. | | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 11:15 - Mar 27 with 754 views | Butty101 |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 09:56 - Mar 27 by GRIM |
You'd make a good PM Nick.
You'll get my vote. |
Im not sure about PM, more like Comical Ali. Everything is fine, as we get relegated.... |  |
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 15:02 - Mar 27 with 716 views | SaintNick |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 11:15 - Mar 27 by Butty101 |
Im not sure about PM, more like Comical Ali. Everything is fine, as we get relegated.... |
If you can find anything I have written last season that said that "Everything" was fine when we went down I would be very surprised, I can find plenty of opinions to the contrary from those who predicted we would be in for another relegation battle this season | |
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 08:10 - Mar 28 with 594 views | saintwizzler |
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 08:20 - Mar 28 with 590 views | PatfromPoole |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 15:02 - Mar 27 by SaintNick |
If you can find anything I have written last season that said that "Everything" was fine when we went down I would be very surprised, I can find plenty of opinions to the contrary from those who predicted we would be in for another relegation battle this season |
TBF I thought we would comfortably finish 17th.
“Relegation battle” is stretching it a tad. | |
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| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 10:15 - Mar 28 with 558 views | Newdawn2014 |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 09:18 - Mar 26 by saint901 |
The problem here is that people do not get paid according to their value to society.
That is not a product of individual skill or application or hard work but a function of economics.
The NHS is funded by tax paid by most of the working population. That tax take will vary according to how well the economy is performing. It's also a fact that medical science advances and the glittery prizes of cures for cancer and other conditions are eye wateringly expensive. So does the NHS spend money on nurses and providing a base level of care (which would please those wishing to see nurses paid more) or do they spend money providing cutting edge treatments.
We, the voting public, are greedy and we want both but we're not prepared to see our taxes increase to do it. If we granted every NHS worker below the grade of consultant a 10% wage rise, taxes need to go up around 0.5% to 1% - every year.
To blame a well paid footballer for a broken economic model seems harsh and is certainly unfair.
If we don't like the fact that entertainers and sports players and bang average presenters on TV get 2 or 3 times the salary of a nurse or a street cleaner or a road mender, then get elected and change the system.
As for not a clue about the real world, I would say that 90% of those I've met have parents unconnected with sports and who have jobs ranging from IT specialists to factory workers. Most of those parents have spent years ferrying the kids around to games, training camps and training. The kids almost certainly know how hard their parents have worked to give them the opportunity and how difficult real life can be.
I would also hesitate to lay the blame for addiction at the feet of having too much time. I'm sure that is part of the equation but there is also a chemical reason and a mental health reason. There is also opportunity. Some become addicted to drugs, others to video games.
Don't get my defence of players wrong here. They are immensely privileged and whilst most are grateful for the chance and make the most of it, some frankly do not and arguably don't deserve to be defended. |
I have recently spent some time in hospital and also A & E , and have seen and experienced fantastic care and compassion from Doctors/nurses et al , whatever they get paid it will never be enough.
as far as football players wages its supply and demand V clubs with limitless funds , I love our club and would not want to ever be one of the " big " clubs. | | | |
| Is it all sunshine and roses for football players? on 13:12 - Mar 28 with 510 views | saint901 |
Interesting snippet about Miroslav Klose.
When I was a teenager, playing football - initially with the other kids on the estate and then in a more organised fashion - was not the only recreational choice, but it was perhaps one of a very limited number of choices.
Given that lack of choice and driven I suspect by a slightly (OK very) obsessional character, I spent literally hours practising basic ball skills. As I got older and met coaches etc, those drills became more sophisticated but I was still doing non fitness ball skills training at least a hour a day and usually longer.
In short I was absolutely committed and because I had a small dose of talent, my hard work was rewarded by playing for district, county, try outs at pro clubs and eventually training with Saints youth teams.
I was prepared (and did) sacrifice personal relationships, education, social events and much more in my attempt to play at pro level. I was not thinking of the financial rewards (this was the early 1970's and kids playing at reserve level were not known for being well paid) but rather to repay myself for all those hours. I would have happily at that time played for free.
I was not good enough and although I tried hard at semi pro and then high amateur level, my dedication was broken and long before injury ended my playing career at 28, I had lost my love of the game.
I turned to coaching for a local "all ages" club. We had kids from U6 to full adult. I quickly found this frustrating. Kids with any talent at football tend to be good at many sports and by the 1990's could make a choice between them. We (me and the coaching team) would put hours into a particular kid only to see him prefer to play tennis or basketball or rugby or just doss around with his mates.
I was by the age of 40 disillusioned with the game in all its aspects and stopped going to games or watching it in TV.
Only in the last 15 years perhaps have I come back to the game and certainly the antics of the "pro's" as seen on TV and live, irritate and anger me. They all seem to be precious and entitled and their interpretation of the "spirit" of the game is very different from where I was.
And I accept that the rose tinted glasses looking at the past are not suitable for viewing today's game but the basics remain true.
Players need to love the game - and not the rewards - if they are to be seen as genuine and dedicated. Unfortunately that group gets fewer every year. | | | |
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