| what would american investors want 10:21 - Jan 28 with 10450 views | libertine |
is it a bad thing that the Americans are buying a big lump of our club.
what would they do?
as ive said on here many times we are in a very special place we are in wales and the only premier club, would they want o build it up?
something has to happen as we are in a bit of a panic alarm state
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| what would american investors want on 17:43 - Jan 28 with 1294 views | londonlisa2001 |
| what would american investors want on 17:21 - Jan 28 by Uxbridge |
It's an intriguing parallel but not one I would necessarily make.
In the same way that I was ok with the club buying back Mel's shares then in principle I'm ok with doing so for others ... All helps the Trust holding. Depends on price for me though, and personal opinion is that any beyond the Mel price would be quite distasteful. |
if what they'll want is the same as Mel's shares then they could sell them to the Trust since that figure is, or could be, affordable.
How much do you believe that is the figure being looked for though?
And as for the parallel, I simply can't see any difference. Club sells best players and uses money to enrich shareholders rather than the club itself. What's the difference? |  | | |
| what would american investors want on 17:50 - Jan 28 with 1284 views | johnlangy |
| what would american investors want on 13:10 - Jan 28 by sixpenses |
Have you looked at their history.
If not do a bit of reading then tell me taking big profits out of their investments is not their prime objective.
The reward for investment is Profit
The reward for naivety is getting your club screwed over |
'The reward for investment is Profit'.
They may very well turn out to be philanthropists looking to invest for the best of reasons (  ). We won't know until it happens.
But let's just assume they are simply being businessmen looking for a profit. The only way that profit could be realised is if we stay a PL Club. The assets of the Club, even if/when we buy the Stadium are not saleable to anyone else because there are no other Pl Clubs around to buy them (the land, for development, is not worth £30 m plus whatever other amounts they invest). So, the profits will come from remaining a PL Club plus developing the Club here and in America where everyone sees a huge growth in interest in the PL over the coming years.
If as a result the Club does grow domestically, which at least means expanding the Stadium, and Internationally via possibly very big sponsorship from America, and we stay a PL Club in the process where's the downside ? (there are downsides of course and i'm sure people have said/will say what they are).
If all that does happen we won't be the DIY darlings of the media any more of course, we'll be just another PL Club with stupidly rich outside investors.
Last comment. I haven't got a clue what's best. | | | |
| what would american investors want on 17:51 - Jan 28 with 1280 views | morningstar |
| what would american investors want on 17:43 - Jan 28 by londonlisa2001 |
if what they'll want is the same as Mel's shares then they could sell them to the Trust since that figure is, or could be, affordable.
How much do you believe that is the figure being looked for though?
And as for the parallel, I simply can't see any difference. Club sells best players and uses money to enrich shareholders rather than the club itself. What's the difference? |
I thought Katzen wanted out? If thats the case be rest assured he wants top dollar and it will be beyond the reach of the trust or indeed other shareholders.
In fact, if Katzen wants a full sale of his shares and the total share sale is 30%, thats means the other sharholders will only be selling 10%. So then, what is the club to do?
Run by the fans for the fans? Never has been when you have Brian Katzen owning 20% of our club. He doesn't exactly bleed back and white does he?
Now then, we have established the current shareholders cannot buy him out, so who would we all prefer to buy 30% of our club? Names anyone? Because it IS going too happen whether the other shareholders like it or not! |  |
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| what would american investors want on 17:54 - Jan 28 with 1271 views | Parlay |
| what would american investors want on 17:50 - Jan 28 by johnlangy |
'The reward for investment is Profit'.
They may very well turn out to be philanthropists looking to invest for the best of reasons ( ). We won't know until it happens.
But let's just assume they are simply being businessmen looking for a profit. The only way that profit could be realised is if we stay a PL Club. The assets of the Club, even if/when we buy the Stadium are not saleable to anyone else because there are no other Pl Clubs around to buy them (the land, for development, is not worth £30 m plus whatever other amounts they invest). So, the profits will come from remaining a PL Club plus developing the Club here and in America where everyone sees a huge growth in interest in the PL over the coming years.
If as a result the Club does grow domestically, which at least means expanding the Stadium, and Internationally via possibly very big sponsorship from America, and we stay a PL Club in the process where's the downside ? (there are downsides of course and i'm sure people have said/will say what they are).
If all that does happen we won't be the DIY darlings of the media any more of course, we'll be just another PL Club with stupidly rich outside investors.
Last comment. I haven't got a clue what's best. |
Another scenario.
They lend us £100m to invest in the team. We do a Cardiff and bomb. They then want to call in their loans and we find ourselves gone from a self sufficient mid table side to a championship side saddled with crippling debt with owners who couldn't give a toss about us a history of taking money and running. |  |
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| what would american investors want on 18:02 - Jan 28 with 1262 views | londonlisa2001 |
| what would american investors want on 17:51 - Jan 28 by morningstar |
I thought Katzen wanted out? If thats the case be rest assured he wants top dollar and it will be beyond the reach of the trust or indeed other shareholders.
In fact, if Katzen wants a full sale of his shares and the total share sale is 30%, thats means the other sharholders will only be selling 10%. So then, what is the club to do?
Run by the fans for the fans? Never has been when you have Brian Katzen owning 20% of our club. He doesn't exactly bleed back and white does he?
Now then, we have established the current shareholders cannot buy him out, so who would we all prefer to buy 30% of our club? Names anyone? Because it IS going too happen whether the other shareholders like it or not! |
I'd thought the same until Ux's post earlier today (well- I thought it was BK and LD).
And I agree with you on the pricing - I was simply answering Ux's hypothetical scenario.
In terms of who do we want? I don't want anyone. I don't see why we cannot continue to grow organically, particularly since FFP has now ruled out any investment led route to the top.
Expansion for extra seats / revenues. Someone that has a very strong commercial background in global sports marketing to be employed (on a significant salary) to maximise sponsorship and other partnerships including naming rights. Selling shirts. Merchandising in the UK and other countries. All these things will increase revenues and therefore allow us to grow. | | | |
| what would american investors want on 18:17 - Jan 28 with 1231 views | sixpenses |
| what would american investors want on 14:19 - Jan 28 by Private_Partz |
I am no financial expert as my credit card bills will testify so I tend to steer clear of all the technical discussion going on in relation to this.
I have a question however.
Given an investor wants to make a profit then where would such profit be made in relation to the club?
I would think if it all goes tits up then all that would be left is the stadium land (assuming we own the it by then) and a few highly paid players holding out for their wages.
The stadium could be sold for building but that would probably go for affordable housing. I would imagine the return would be more or less the same as the original sum used to purchase the club. It could even be a sizeable loss.
It seems to me that the only way any profit can be made is in supporting the clubs finances and retaining top flight status. Even then any profit would be minimal. Any views? |
I think they would constantly monitor for any sign of upward tit rotation. That ensures they can quickly do whatever is most likely to protect their own funds.
Of course we do well they do well - unless they decide to move us to Cardiff or for e.g. do the minimum to keep us in the PL to benefit from the TV Money. Obviously they will have big ideas to wring every penny from the club. We could capitalise ourselves if we bring in some substantial nous in those areas that can best bring in revenue - perhaps offering significant bonus / revenue sharing for exceptional achievement (as with players); thus giving strong impetus to achieve highly and potentially attracting interest from higher achievers who fancy their chances, whist keeping wages manageable.
The important thing is we are not looking for NVQs here and admin tasks like ensuring the database is up to date so adults are not still paying childrens prices. But substantial real world experience in successfully exploiting revenue streams with innovative ideas and strong high level networking contacts - not talking facebook here. | | | |
| what would american investors want on 18:25 - Jan 28 with 1218 views | morningstar |
| what would american investors want on 17:54 - Jan 28 by Parlay |
Another scenario.
They lend us £100m to invest in the team. We do a Cardiff and bomb. They then want to call in their loans and we find ourselves gone from a self sufficient mid table side to a championship side saddled with crippling debt with owners who couldn't give a toss about us a history of taking money and running. |
Let's not forget of course that John Moores could eat our current board alive, Morgan included. They lend us the £100m, we bomb, he wants his money back, we can't pay. "Well lads theres always the rest of your shares I suppose and then we'll call it quits"! Game over. | |
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| what would american investors want on 18:30 - Jan 28 with 1215 views | sixpenses |
| what would american investors want on 17:51 - Jan 28 by morningstar |
I thought Katzen wanted out? If thats the case be rest assured he wants top dollar and it will be beyond the reach of the trust or indeed other shareholders.
In fact, if Katzen wants a full sale of his shares and the total share sale is 30%, thats means the other sharholders will only be selling 10%. So then, what is the club to do?
Run by the fans for the fans? Never has been when you have Brian Katzen owning 20% of our club. He doesn't exactly bleed back and white does he?
Now then, we have established the current shareholders cannot buy him out, so who would we all prefer to buy 30% of our club? Names anyone? Because it IS going too happen whether the other shareholders like it or not! |
If this IS going to happen. At what price IS it going to happen at
We cannot as far as I am aware directly stop shareholders selling their shares
(although there was a question as to if they could register them without approval)
However if we make clear the Trust will throw every legal and moral obstacle full in their faces to prevent or delay them ad infinitum from getting a controlling interest - then their ardour may soon cool and the potential shareprice even drop to the value when previous shares were sold back. | | | |
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| what would american investors want on 18:38 - Jan 28 with 1204 views | sixpenses |
| what would american investors want on 17:50 - Jan 28 by johnlangy |
'The reward for investment is Profit'.
They may very well turn out to be philanthropists looking to invest for the best of reasons ( ). We won't know until it happens.
But let's just assume they are simply being businessmen looking for a profit. The only way that profit could be realised is if we stay a PL Club. The assets of the Club, even if/when we buy the Stadium are not saleable to anyone else because there are no other Pl Clubs around to buy them (the land, for development, is not worth £30 m plus whatever other amounts they invest). So, the profits will come from remaining a PL Club plus developing the Club here and in America where everyone sees a huge growth in interest in the PL over the coming years.
If as a result the Club does grow domestically, which at least means expanding the Stadium, and Internationally via possibly very big sponsorship from America, and we stay a PL Club in the process where's the downside ? (there are downsides of course and i'm sure people have said/will say what they are).
If all that does happen we won't be the DIY darlings of the media any more of course, we'll be just another PL Club with stupidly rich outside investors.
Last comment. I haven't got a clue what's best. |
Sorry "The reward for investment is profit" is an old quote from economics lessons
Of course there can be other reasons (albeit generally considerably less common)
As I said read up on them and judge from their previous behaviour
My post above touches on some of the other points you raise | | | |
| what would american investors want on 19:20 - Jan 28 with 1165 views | bluenile |
What "panic alarm state" is that??......................................Christ on a bike! |  |
| Open the ipod bay doors Hal |
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| what would american investors want on 19:45 - Jan 28 with 1148 views | GeoffThom |
I cannot believe soon of the vitriol that is starting to appear towards our directors by some on here ,you would do well to remember how much they have done for this club because we're not doing to badly at the moment are we ,every dog has his day it may well not last but it's good at the moment and unless some of you have quite a few quid to stick in to buy shares do me a favour and tone it down because you sound like spoilt ungrateful children at the moment and what's more if any of the directors read this who could blame them for saying bollacks to it and sell up to anybody never mind the yanks |  | | |
| what would american investors want on 19:50 - Jan 28 with 1138 views | Parlay |
| what would american investors want on 19:45 - Jan 28 by GeoffThom |
I cannot believe soon of the vitriol that is starting to appear towards our directors by some on here ,you would do well to remember how much they have done for this club because we're not doing to badly at the moment are we ,every dog has his day it may well not last but it's good at the moment and unless some of you have quite a few quid to stick in to buy shares do me a favour and tone it down because you sound like spoilt ungrateful children at the moment and what's more if any of the directors read this who could blame them for saying bollacks to it and sell up to anybody never mind the yanks |
An example i gave before is, if i saved a cat from drowning 10 years ago, I'm not as a result given free reign to now mistreat it.
The board did wonders in the takeover and their management of the club on our way up. However they are now seemingly putting the club back in jeopardy for no other reason than money. They earn an arm and a leg out of our club and have given themselves lucrative contracts for their own private businesses too. Its not like they are short of a bob or two. | |
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| what would american investors want on 20:00 - Jan 28 with 1132 views | pencoedjack |
| what would american investors want on 19:45 - Jan 28 by GeoffThom |
I cannot believe soon of the vitriol that is starting to appear towards our directors by some on here ,you would do well to remember how much they have done for this club because we're not doing to badly at the moment are we ,every dog has his day it may well not last but it's good at the moment and unless some of you have quite a few quid to stick in to buy shares do me a favour and tone it down because you sound like spoilt ungrateful children at the moment and what's more if any of the directors read this who could blame them for saying bollacks to it and sell up to anybody never mind the yanks |
That's how I see it
Its happening no keyboard warrior is going to stop it .. |  | | |
| what would american investors want on 20:02 - Jan 28 with 1125 views | Parlay |
| what would american investors want on 20:00 - Jan 28 by pencoedjack |
That's how I see it
Its happening no keyboard warrior is going to stop it .. |
Nobody is suggesting we can stop it. Doesn't make you a keyboard warrior to express your concerns on a forum designed specifically for that though.
This is a very dangerous time for the club, no doubting that. Fans will be concerned, it would be weird if they werent. | |
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| what would american investors want on 20:12 - Jan 28 with 1109 views | pencoedjack |
| what would american investors want on 20:02 - Jan 28 by Parlay |
Nobody is suggesting we can stop it. Doesn't make you a keyboard warrior to express your concerns on a forum designed specifically for that though.
This is a very dangerous time for the club, no doubting that. Fans will be concerned, it would be weird if they werent. |
Out of interest
If you had invested 50k of your own money (having to remortgage you house in the process) into a company that you loved (which BK probably doesn't) & someone offered you millions when it was at the peak of it sale value ... What would you do ? | | | |
| what would american investors want on 20:20 - Jan 28 with 1097 views | Parlay |
| what would american investors want on 20:12 - Jan 28 by pencoedjack |
Out of interest
If you had invested 50k of your own money (having to remortgage you house in the process) into a company that you loved (which BK probably doesn't) & someone offered you millions when it was at the peak of it sale value ... What would you do ? |
If i was Katzen? Sell. He didnt have to remortgage his house btw.
Katzen isnt the board though, he is one member. If you think the americans are getting on board for 30% of the club though, you are barking. Is the beginning. | |
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| what would american investors want on 20:28 - Jan 28 with 1083 views | GeoffThom |
| what would american investors want on 19:50 - Jan 28 by Parlay |
An example i gave before is, if i saved a cat from drowning 10 years ago, I'm not as a result given free reign to now mistreat it.
The board did wonders in the takeover and their management of the club on our way up. However they are now seemingly putting the club back in jeopardy for no other reason than money. They earn an arm and a leg out of our club and have given themselves lucrative contracts for their own private businesses too. Its not like they are short of a bob or two. |
Ok then you buy some shares then to keep it local because unless your a millionaire this club is going to have to be sold to move forward and if it means these guys making from it bloody good luck to them they deserve it I would love local guys with plenty of money to control the club but I don't see any riding over the hill | | | |
| what would american investors want on 20:29 - Jan 28 with 1081 views | pencoedjack |
| what would american investors want on 20:20 - Jan 28 by Parlay |
If i was Katzen? Sell. He didnt have to remortgage his house btw.
Katzen isnt the board though, he is one member. If you think the americans are getting on board for 30% of the club though, you are barking. Is the beginning. |
I know Katzen didn't remortgage his house ....
Yes or no would you sell if you were a board member ? I don't need a lecture just a straight yes or no will do.
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| what would american investors want on 20:31 - Jan 28 with 1078 views | Parlay |
| what would american investors want on 20:29 - Jan 28 by pencoedjack |
I know Katzen didn't remortgage his house ....
Yes or no would you sell if you were a board member ? I don't need a lecture just a straight yes or no will do.
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There is no yes or no. Each board member should act differently.
If i was katzen then i would sell to anyone, of i was one of the ones that claim to have the club at heart then if i wanted out i would only sell to the right people. Not a bloke that just left his last club after pocketing $200m of their TV right deal. | |
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| what would american investors want on 20:35 - Jan 28 with 1074 views | GeoffThom |
| what would american investors want on 20:20 - Jan 28 by Parlay |
If i was Katzen? Sell. He didnt have to remortgage his house btw.
Katzen isnt the board though, he is one member. If you think the americans are getting on board for 30% of the club though, you are barking. Is the beginning. |
Bk is a shroud businessman who buys and sells bankrupt company's he has absolutely no ties with Swansea but has put his money were his mouth is and held his side of the bargain up so who can blame him for now selling up and moving on who knows if the shit hits the fan in the future he wouldn't help us again | | | |
| what would american investors want on 20:39 - Jan 28 with 1068 views | pencoedjack |
| what would american investors want on 20:31 - Jan 28 by Parlay |
There is no yes or no. Each board member should act differently.
If i was katzen then i would sell to anyone, of i was one of the ones that claim to have the club at heart then if i wanted out i would only sell to the right people. Not a bloke that just left his last club after pocketing $200m of their TV right deal. |
Who would you class as a right investor ?
You would risk losing money on your shares waiting for the right investor (wealthy enough to move us to the next stage) ?
You have a couple of successful businesses correct ? | | | |
| what would american investors want on 20:40 - Jan 28 with 1068 views | libertine |
| what would american investors want on 18:38 - Jan 28 by sixpenses |
Sorry "The reward for investment is profit" is an old quote from economics lessons
Of course there can be other reasons (albeit generally considerably less common)
As I said read up on them and judge from their previous behaviour
My post above touches on some of the other points you raise |
have you any places to read up on them? | | | |
| what would american investors want on 20:42 - Jan 28 with 1059 views | Parlay |
| what would american investors want on 20:35 - Jan 28 by GeoffThom |
Bk is a shroud businessman who buys and sells bankrupt company's he has absolutely no ties with Swansea but has put his money were his mouth is and held his side of the bargain up so who can blame him for now selling up and moving on who knows if the shit hits the fan in the future he wouldn't help us again |
I said if i was Katzen id sell.
The likes of Huw Jenkins and Martin Morgan have no such excuse however. They have lauded themselves as saviours of Swansea and fans of the club that took over to save it. Even stuck a million quid of the clubs money into a move to document their ownership.
They make mega bucks from the club and have had their investment back more than 10 fold.
If they are to sell they have a duty to make sure the club is in good hands. John Moores is not good hands. | |
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| what would american investors want on 20:50 - Jan 28 with 1036 views | GeoffThom |
| what would american investors want on 20:42 - Jan 28 by Parlay |
I said if i was Katzen id sell.
The likes of Huw Jenkins and Martin Morgan have no such excuse however. They have lauded themselves as saviours of Swansea and fans of the club that took over to save it. Even stuck a million quid of the clubs money into a move to document their ownership.
They make mega bucks from the club and have had their investment back more than 10 fold.
If they are to sell they have a duty to make sure the club is in good hands. John Moores is not good hands. |
If you think they're not right as I said buy into it ,I for one couldn't and I don't know if you could or couldn't as I said I don't see anyone else riding into town to take the swans over ,if we want this club to remain at the top table we need money men some of our directors would be ok in the lower leagues but that's it we've been lucky so far gone are the days of the butcher baker and candlestick maker owning the local club times have moved on | | | |
| what would american investors want on 20:52 - Jan 28 with 1029 views | perchrockjack |
If our team do eell so do the yanks .
Why would they wanting shaft us.
It's in their own interests for us to prosper.
Parochial,small time thinking has held back swansea in every way. This could be the genesis of our club ,city really moving up in the world.. | |
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