| The May and Juncker meeting leaks 08:33 - May 1 with 9246 views | Kilkennyjack |
May and that idiot Davis poorly briefed and unprepared.
Juncker said he left the meeting 'ten times as skeptical' as when he started it.
That went well then.
See @jeremycliffe on the Twitter.
Worth a read.
Strong and stable and clueless leadership.
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:12 - May 1 with 869 views | longlostjack |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:04 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
Nobody said we'd get a better deal, not sure why you mentioned that.
Overall we can take the short term hit on EU and achieve better deals with non-EU nations, so benefit longer term.
The EU are so concerned about rights of citizens that their priority is wanting to get money out of Britain before that's even discussed. So citizen rights aren't really high on EU's agenda.
Of course penalising Britain is the key. Le Pen is pushing a referendum on leaving. Anti-EU sentiment is growing across Europe. If Britain is a success after Brexit, then the EU project is undermined. So you've people like Juncker, who once said "Britain doesn't need the EU" leaking like a sieve to influence the general election - as he has with France by saying "Le Pen won't win". |
What would you consider to be a better deal with China ? What would it look like compared to the current situation? |  |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:22 - May 1 with 856 views | blueytheblue |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:12 - May 1 by longlostjack |
What would you consider to be a better deal with China ? What would it look like compared to the current situation? |
Given last year, Chinese media reported Chinese Ministry of Commerce wants to do a UK free trade deal, we'll have to see. |  |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:25 - May 1 with 852 views | longlostjack |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:22 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
Given last year, Chinese media reported Chinese Ministry of Commerce wants to do a UK free trade deal, we'll have to see. |
Hooray more cheap steel. | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:29 - May 1 with 843 views | blueytheblue |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:25 - May 1 by longlostjack |
Hooray more cheap steel. |
That's one thing I would disagree on, certainly.
I'd imagine China would want to get more into City of London if anything. Could well curb their dumping of steel here as a quid pro quo. | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:43 - May 1 with 835 views | Shaky |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:12 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
"Everybody"?
Should be easy then for you to give evidence of people saying we'd get a better deal from EU, which was the "claim".
Reality is, no better deal with EU. Better deal with nations outside EU. As our trade with EU has gone down year on year, it's better longer term to focus on your Chinas, Indias et al. |
Poor Bluey, have you already forgotten about the Leave campaign's aherm "pledge" to spend £350million per week going to the EU on the NHS/Science/Farming/Eeducation/Everythig else under the sun? You know, the red bus?
And the firm conviction of leading Brexiters that German car manufacturers would be so desperate to sell cars in the UK, they would insist on a free trade deal by order of her omnipotence, Mrs Anglea Merkel?
Free trade + no membership fees = the nitty gritty details of a better deal.
But moving swiftly on I see you are now purveying new slogans, yet to be discredited.
What has the EU share of the UK's external trade declined to Bluey? From 44.5% to 44.3%? Something like that anyway.
Yes, quite a lot of people in China and India, but do you think the mass markets there are clamouring to buy financial services? How about those looking to outsource their advertising and PR workloads to good old Brits?
Sadly not much there at all when you scratch the surface behind those braindead talking points and empty slogans you are so fond of. |  |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:45 - May 1 with 833 views | longlostjack |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:29 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
That's one thing I would disagree on, certainly.
I'd imagine China would want to get more into City of London if anything. Could well curb their dumping of steel here as a quid pro quo. |
The City of London is already open for Chinese business. Chinese are pouring money into the property market in London. EU places no restrictions on this. EU does place tariffs on manufactured goods including steel and textiles. Quite rightly so. In the case of steel they should have been higher but were blocked by the very party you support. Strange that. Oh and we musn't forget this. Pesky EU getting in the way of free trade with those oh so economically liberal Chinese again.
http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-faces-e2-billion-eu-payment-for-china-fraud-tr | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:50 - May 1 with 828 views | blueytheblue |
Red bus? Well, that wasn't the government but only a fool would expect that money will magically disappear and never be used internally.
Your point re German car manufacturers isn't relevant or valid at this point in time given talks haven't officially started.
EU share of trade in 2000 was over 50%. So yeah, Shaky, odd blip aside isn't been on a downward trend.
Rest of your comments are the usual rhetoric. Might wash where you normally post, but water off a ducks back to me. | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:51 - May 1 with 828 views | rock1n |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 15:35 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
Agree the negotiations are a waste of time.
EU gives not one single f*ck about rights of EU nationals here or about reciprocation. It's all about the money. They want to gouge as much as they can from Britain before we leave. A punishment beating attempt, to dissuade anyone else from going.
I'd tend to agree. If a reasonable deal is offered and can be reached ( unlikely ) then great. If not, take short term hit on WTO for longer term gain.
One thing is for sure, should we get decent enough deals with China, India et al, EU will want to strike a deal to gain a piece of the pie. |
What longer term gain? |  |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:53 - May 1 with 824 views | rock1n |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 14:35 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
Can trade under WTO, correct.
"Given time" big trade deal with States, China etc? Look at India. 9 years of talks between EU and India. No deal. Nowhere near close to a deal. 27 nations, all with different needs and requirements, hell even different regions within those nations can block things...
EU trade has increasingly become less relevant to Britain. Those outside Eu deals are far, far more important long term - EU will implode well before then. |
It won't, when Macron wins the EURO will shoot up in value. Germany will have to start loosening the purse strings and the EU will recover and we'll be p1ssing in from the outside. | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:54 - May 1 with 821 views | blueytheblue |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:51 - May 1 by rock1n |
What longer term gain? |
Reducing having eggs in the basket that is the imploding EU is a long term gain... | |
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| The Mop press. Buey thinks people who belived NHS way and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:55 - May 1 with 820 views | Shaky |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:50 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
Red bus? Well, that wasn't the government but only a fool would expect that money will magically disappear and never be used internally.
Your point re German car manufacturers isn't relevant or valid at this point in time given talks haven't officially started.
EU share of trade in 2000 was over 50%. So yeah, Shaky, odd blip aside isn't been on a downward trend.
Rest of your comments are the usual rhetoric. Might wash where you normally post, but water off a ducks back to me. |
Stop press. Buey thinks people who belived NHS would be better funded if they voted leave are fools.
Breathtaking arrogance - it's par for the course, folks. | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:56 - May 1 with 818 views | rock1n |
Still can't figure out why we'd want to do deals with Countries we have little in common with, which will involve free movement of both capital and 'labour' over our nearest neighbours.
What are we achieving? One day I'll get an answer, I'll have a hipster beard by then fully grey though | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| The Mop press. Buey thinks people who belived NHS way and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:57 - May 1 with 818 views | blueytheblue |
| The Mop press. Buey thinks people who belived NHS way and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:55 - May 1 by Shaky |
Stop press. Buey thinks people who belived NHS would be better funded if they voted leave are fools.
Breathtaking arrogance - it's par for the course, folks. |
"Red bus? Well, that wasn't the government but only a fool would expect that money will magically disappear and never be used internally. "
Stop press.
Shaky in "unable to actually read shocker".
I blame Swansea's Trust. | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:01 - May 1 with 813 views | blueytheblue |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:53 - May 1 by rock1n |
It won't, when Macron wins the EURO will shoot up in value. Germany will have to start loosening the purse strings and the EU will recover and we'll be p1ssing in from the outside. |
That presumes Macron wins.
Not convinced the Euro will shoot up in value in that instance either. | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:01 - May 1 with 811 views | rock1n |
If people were fools (which they were of course) why would they in every photo op have that 350m figure plastered behind them?
I remember some old labour women from North East saying she voted leave because of extra money for NHS
The leave campaign was an utter disgrace, many of the leave voters were used like useful idiots.
The red background to the bus and campaign material was hardly subtle either. There is a sizeable amount of labour support who could barely tell you who the leader is let alone tell you the policies - it's was a disgusting campaign | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:03 - May 1 with 809 views | blueytheblue |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 16:56 - May 1 by rock1n |
Still can't figure out why we'd want to do deals with Countries we have little in common with, which will involve free movement of both capital and 'labour' over our nearest neighbours.
What are we achieving? One day I'll get an answer, I'll have a hipster beard by then fully grey though |
If you mean my identifying China and India as two possibles, the reasoning is that both absolutely dwarf U in terms of potential trade. Both emerging economies so better to try to get on board now rather than 20 years down the line.
India in particular, EU talks have taken 9 years and achieved nothing. Any trade talks between EU and India have to consider 28 nations; UK - India only two. | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:04 - May 1 with 808 views | rock1n |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:01 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
That presumes Macron wins.
Not convinced the Euro will shoot up in value in that instance either. |
I really hope I've got this wrong but I expect you'll be talking a different tune in a year or two when we're in recession and we're all skint.
Already in the latest Times poll remain have pulled ahead, this will only widen.
The Sun/Express/Mail can't brainwash people forever | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:06 - May 1 with 805 views | blueytheblue |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:01 - May 1 by rock1n |
If people were fools (which they were of course) why would they in every photo op have that 350m figure plastered behind them?
I remember some old labour women from North East saying she voted leave because of extra money for NHS
The leave campaign was an utter disgrace, many of the leave voters were used like useful idiots.
The red background to the bus and campaign material was hardly subtle either. There is a sizeable amount of labour support who could barely tell you who the leader is let alone tell you the policies - it's was a disgusting campaign |
Ignore the fools comment; Shaky can't read.
£350m was the amount (claimed) going to EU before rebate. That's still a lot of money even with rebate.
Of course (insert percentage) of that money will be invested into infrastructure, NHS et al. Some may believe that money will disappear into a black hole, but those are the fools...
The Remain campaign was hardly great either. Predictions of financial apocalypse not upon leaving but upon a leave vote... FT have had to perform major reverse ferrets. | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:08 - May 1 with 802 views | rock1n |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:03 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
If you mean my identifying China and India as two possibles, the reasoning is that both absolutely dwarf U in terms of potential trade. Both emerging economies so better to try to get on board now rather than 20 years down the line.
India in particular, EU talks have taken 9 years and achieved nothing. Any trade talks between EU and India have to consider 28 nations; UK - India only two. |
We can trade with these Countries, we've been pimping them for years.
Arch remainer Osborne was close to signing a lucrative deal with China regarding financial services. Why do we want a comprehensive deal? The likes of Germany and France are liberal democracies call me paranoid but I'd rather be doing comprehensive deals with them than communist regimes.
It's all pie in the sky, I don't want a fast trade deal with these huge economies - I'd happily sign one in time but not in 2/3 years that's crazy. They're immensely complicated if you fck it up that could mean sky high employment, security risks.................................................... a loss of sovereignty | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:09 - May 1 with 797 views | perchrockjack |
so...debate then
Seems the left first to chuck barns around at with whom they disagree | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:09 - May 1 with 797 views | blueytheblue |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:04 - May 1 by rock1n |
I really hope I've got this wrong but I expect you'll be talking a different tune in a year or two when we're in recession and we're all skint.
Already in the latest Times poll remain have pulled ahead, this will only widen.
The Sun/Express/Mail can't brainwash people forever |
We were told recession would start after a leave vote, yet the economy has performed better than expected with predictions generally revised upwards.
Sky hasn't fallen in.
The prediction we'll be in recession and all skint as as wrong as predicting we'll all be millionaires with unicorns...
Have you a non-paywall link to that poll? I'd be interested to see it. | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:11 - May 1 with 793 views | blueytheblue |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:08 - May 1 by rock1n |
We can trade with these Countries, we've been pimping them for years.
Arch remainer Osborne was close to signing a lucrative deal with China regarding financial services. Why do we want a comprehensive deal? The likes of Germany and France are liberal democracies call me paranoid but I'd rather be doing comprehensive deals with them than communist regimes.
It's all pie in the sky, I don't want a fast trade deal with these huge economies - I'd happily sign one in time but not in 2/3 years that's crazy. They're immensely complicated if you fck it up that could mean sky high employment, security risks.................................................... a loss of sovereignty |
I agree with the point you don't rush those deals.
That's why I'd expect short term issues, preliminary deals on smaller issues which eventually get merged into larger more comprehensive deals over time. | |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:12 - May 1 with 790 views | rock1n |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:06 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
Ignore the fools comment; Shaky can't read.
£350m was the amount (claimed) going to EU before rebate. That's still a lot of money even with rebate.
Of course (insert percentage) of that money will be invested into infrastructure, NHS et al. Some may believe that money will disappear into a black hole, but those are the fools...
The Remain campaign was hardly great either. Predictions of financial apocalypse not upon leaving but upon a leave vote... FT have had to perform major reverse ferrets. |
You but you and I follow politics, we look at the detail.
That was retail politics and it was clever because they knew that your average bod is going to pick up the tabloids and read:
'Germans making us pay 350m each week to them IT'S A DISGRACE WE DIDN'T FIGHT WAR FOR NUFFINK'
Come on bluey you know how this works.
Leave provided simple solutions to complex problems. It's Jeremy Corbyn on drugs with his free unicorns and chocolate rivers with right wing Colonels in the bargain | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:15 - May 1 with 779 views | rock1n |
| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:09 - May 1 by blueytheblue |
We were told recession would start after a leave vote, yet the economy has performed better than expected with predictions generally revised upwards.
Sky hasn't fallen in.
The prediction we'll be in recession and all skint as as wrong as predicting we'll all be millionaires with unicorns...
Have you a non-paywall link to that poll? I'd be interested to see it. |
That was a mistake, I don't think anyone denies this.
But one of the reasons was the huge amount of money ploughed into the economy through QE and interest rates reduced to 0.25% also May became PM very quickly and weren't signing article 50 quickly.
I expect a mild recession to come and then we'll grow below trend with similar levels of immigration and lower spending.
So my question is, why | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
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| The May and Juncker meeting leaks on 17:17 - May 1 with 773 views | blueytheblue |
Of course it was clever in that regard.
Soundbite politics.
It's what the public want. You look at m=newspapers now as opposed to 30-40-50 years ago. Society has become dumbed down, more concerned with Kardashians...
That's why I've always been against TV debates because two second slogans resonate more than a point made over five minutes.
The general point of that bus was correct - we're given money to EU, receive less back. Why not just not bother sending it to EU and use it ourselves how we choose?
And yes, NHS was mentioned fairly cynically. Same as Labour using NHS as a political football. | |
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