| The 20MPH punishments 08:34 - Aug 3 with 97547 views | SullutaCreturned |
Well the punishment for breaking the limit,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-confirm-how-punish-drivers-
Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness. |  | | |  |
| The 20MPH punishments on 16:03 - Dec 4 with 1159 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:29 - Dec 4 by majorraglan |
It’s not a tax raising scheme and I believe anyone who suggests otherwise is 100% misinformed or mistaken.
Money from courses goes to the safety camera partnership to improve road safety, money from fixed penalty’s and Court imposed fines hoes to the Treasury in London. Why would Drakers take action which would benefit the Conservative government in London?
I suspect Drakers and Waters genuinely believe in the benefits of the 20 mph speed limit as opposed to it being introduced for financial reasons. There’s a place for 20 mph limits, but not the way this has been rolled out. |
And anyone who believes that this and other insane policies which have been and yet to be | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:41 - Dec 4 with 1105 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:43 - Dec 4 by onehunglow |
And you need to move nearer to England as you seem to be missing out on badinage .
Lighten the fook up mun .
Wales is not the centre of the universe .
One always criticises that which is held dear .
I don’t think your e a bad sort at all,it’s just your views that we clash over .
What you don’t do is dig up old agenda in an attempt to deride a fellow fan .
anyway, I don’t agree with blanket 20 mph and don’t believe they are so vital as some other posters are . Inconsiderate ,feckless,driving grinds my gears as do the fook wits who drive after doing dope.
Then,we can add those who drive without insurance and then those who think their car is a phallic extension.
Moving back to Wales? Me? Why the hell would I uproot my family and live away from my grandkids and friends.
Next… [Post edited 4 Dec 2023 9:45]
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Its not a blanket 20 mph mun …🥳 |  |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:43 - Dec 4 with 1103 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:53 - Dec 4 by felixstowe_jack |
You saying no one is ever going to be fined for breaking the 20mph limit. Even Drakeford has said the fire service will enforce the limit. Just another way to raise extra taxes and nothing to do with road safety.
If Drakeford was really interested in getting people out of cars onto buses he would let tourists from the rest of the UK use their bus passes in Wales. |
Thats why i said 12 months …. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:58 - Dec 4 with 1095 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:31 - Dec 4 by Togg |
You were dead against it initially |
I certainly would not have done it when they did it, or how they did it.
They should have provided the compelling logic first to gain a general consensus, and that could take 18 months to 2 years.
Lets have the debate and agree its a good thing, maybe modify it and review it once operational.
Maybe do area by area so the sign changes were more manageable ?
But i accept its a welsh govt decision, and its not really caused me any grief to date.
So if it saves a few lives and prevents some Injuries, then its a good thing. Shirley ? [Post edited 4 Dec 2023 19:59]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 20:47 - Dec 4 with 1078 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:41 - Dec 4 by Kilkennyjack |
Its not a blanket 20 mph mun …🥳 |
Oh good
Now who defines what roads are? | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 23:40 - Dec 4 with 1023 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:47 - Dec 4 by onehunglow |
Oh good
Now who defines what roads are? |
Plaid ( now there's a laugh on a cold Monday Swansea evening ) had concerns regarding the underfunding of public service funding , I see those in cardiff yet again show a distinct lack of joined up thinking
"Plaid’s Llyr Gruffydd says bus cuts will leave communities “without public transport options”
A leaked letter from the Welsh Local Government Association (WLGA) has revealed that top Labour councillors believe the Welsh Government’s plans to cut bus funding will cut off communities.
Plaid Cymru MS Llyr Gruffydd said the letter showed his party’s serious concerns about the future of transport throughout Wales was shared by councillors in all parts of Wales and urged the Labour Government to rethink the funding cuts.
In a letter to the First Minister, Mark Drakeford, dated 13th March, Labour Councillors Andrew Morgan and Rob Stewart, the WLGA’s Leader and Deputy Leader, outlined several issues in the Welsh Government’s “Top-down” transport policy, which was causing a “perfect storm for communities”, and an approach to bringing about change in transport policy that is “all stick and no carrot”.
The letter to the First Minister outlined several areas of concern, including:
The Roads Review, where there was very limited contact with council Leaders after the review had reached its conclusions, and the “narrow and desk-based nature of much of the Roads Review work”.
‘Cart before horse’ planning, referring to the lack of investment in public transport alternatives needed to encourage people out of cars and on to public transport.
The “sheer volume of transport-related issues” which is leaving councils struggling to manage at present, with more proposals by the Welsh Government placing councils’ highways and transport staff under great pressure. It also raised concern that there would be implications from policies such as the default 20mph on school transport and winter service plans, with longer shifts needing to be covered.
Rural concerns, where there is no public transport services in some areas – having a knock on effect on economic development, and where active travel is “simply not a realistic option”.
Social inequality and exclusion for many residents where “public transport is a lifeline as they either cannot afford, or are unable, to drive.”
Concerns about the Deputy First Minister’s conduct which has led councillors to be “concerned about the nature of the debate and tone of the meetings”.
Plaid Cymru held a debate in the Senedd on the future of the Bus Emergency Scheme earlier this week which called on the Welsh Government to extend the scheme for at least 18 months to provide longer-term financial security to bus operators across Wales. The motion also called on the government to bring forward long-term secure funding options to maintain bus services, as opposed to emergency funding schemes.
Both calls were rejected by the Labour Government and transport minister Lee Waters.
The leaked letter revels that Cllrs Andrew Morgan and Rob Stewart both agree with Plaid Cymru’s call and called on the Welsh Government to secure funding for buses in the long term, writing:
Agreeing with Plaid Cymru’s calls on the Welsh Government to secure funding for buses in the long term, Cllrs Andrew Morgan and Rob Stewart said:
“The fact [Bus Funding] is being extended was welcomed but there was a call for ways to be found to make the funding permanent so that services can be protected. Whilst passenger numbers have not recovered post-Covid, they never will if services start to be cut across Wales. […] “Loss of bus services is potentially devastating for these groups [older people, young people, people with disabilities and low income households], impacting on their well-being by restricting access to educational, economic, health and leisure services and to family and social contacts.”
Responding to the critical letter, Plaid Cymru’s spokesperson for Local Government, Llyr Gruffydd MS, said:
“It’s clear that Plaid Cymru’s serious concerns about the future of transport throughout Wales are shared by councillors in all parts of Wales. In particular, there is a great deal of concern about the future of bus services which, as they stand, will leave communities cut off. This is why Plaid Cymru put forward a debate in the Senedd this week on the future of the Bus Emergency Scheme.”
“The Welsh Government’s current plans on buses are set to leave communities without public transport options. This could be disastrous for many – particularly older people, vulnerable groups, poorer communities, and those who live in rural areas.
“It was also worrying to read in the WLGA’s letter to the First Minister that there are issues surrounding the conduct of the Deputy Minister for Transport, particularly the ‘nature of the debate and tone of the meetings’.
“At the centre of any plan to ensure a greener future for all of Wales must be a public transport system that is improved and equally available to all. Any plan to ensure this must take everyone in Wales along with it.”
WLGA letter to the First Minister, 13 March 2023
Dear First Minister,
TRANSPORT MATTERS: Roads review, bus funding/BES3 and franchising proposals, 20mph default, pavement parking, Active Travel and Regional Transport Plans
At the WLGA Executive Board meeting on 24th February, Leaders considered reports on the Roads Review and on Bus Funding. Together, the reports generated a long discussion which took up the majority of the meeting. Leaders are fully supportive of efforts to reduce carbon emissions and to improve public transport and active transport alternatives. However, a long list of concerns was aired and it was agreed these raise such important issues, transcending transport to impact on all other council service areas, that we should write to you as First Minister.
The main issues raised were as follows:
The lack of local engagement by the team that undertook the Roads Review: There was very limited contact with Leaders and then only after the review had reached its conclusions. There was no attempt to discuss the review with either of us, as WLGA Leader/Transport Spokesperson and Deputy Leader/Economy Spokesperson. Local communities that will be affected by the decisions were given no opportunity to input from their lived experiences. This ‘top down’ approach has raised wider concerns over Regional Transport Plans and the scope there will be for local discretion.
The narrow and desk-based nature of much of the Roads Review work: There is little knowledge or evidence of field work being undertaken by the team on the ground in the localities affected. Indeed, the team appears to have divided up the roads to carry out their assessments, with not all team members visiting or being involved in each case. The focus on the merits or otherwise of road proposals was felt to have overlooked much wider dependencies and issues of community resilience linked to such schemes.
‘Cart before horse’ planning: This phrase was used in the meeting, referring to the lack of investment in public transport alternatives needed to encourage people out of cars and on to public transport. The fact BES3 is being extended was welcomed but there was a call for ways to be found to make the funding permanent so that services can be protected. Whilst passenger numbers have not recovered post-Covid, they never will if services start to be cut across Wales. There were concerns it will result in a downward spiral of decline. The incongruity of having a concessionary pass but no bus to use it on was raised, predictably.
The sheer volume of transport-related issues councils are struggling to manage at present: As the heading of this letter indicates, there is a long list of transport-related projects and requirements, all of which are being taken forward simultaneously. The proposal on pavement parking enforcement is just the most recent example. This is placing councils’ highways and transport staff under great pressure with much of it being on top of the ‘day job’, such as maintaining highways and structures, keeping daily bus services running smoothly. Difficulties recruiting technical staff are exacerbating the position.
Implications for home to school transport and winter service plans – serious concerns were raised about the implications of the current circumstances for school transport. For some time now councils have been faced with operators withdrawing services only to see costs escalate dramatically when routes are re-tendered. If we start to lose services, drivers and even some operators, the situation is only going to worsen. The 20mph default speed limit, whilst having considerable support, will lengthen some home to school journey times, add to operator costs and put further upward pressure on tender prices. There are also implications of the 20mph default limit for winter service, as gritters travel at an average 28mph so the new limit will extend the time needed for runs, impacting on operators’ hours.
Rural concerns - a number of Leaders from the more rural authorities spoke of there already being no public transport services in some areas. They fear this will become more extensive. In such communities active travel is simply not a realistic option for many journeys given distances, weather conditions, terrain and safety concerns. Attempts to attract businesses to rural areas to create local sources of employment and reduce the need to travel are felt to be at risk if vital highway improvements and access routes are effectively ruled out and public transport options are not available.
Social inequality and exclusion: The point was made that for many residents, especially older people, young people, people with disabilities and low income households, public transport is a lifeline as they either cannot afford, or are unable, to drive. Loss of bus services is potentially devastating for these groups, impacting on their well-being by restricting access to educational, economic, heath and leisure services and to family and social contacts.
Taken together, one Leader described the situation as a ‘perfect storm’ for communities. Another referred to the current approach as ‘all stick and no carrot’. There was a proposal, endorsed by all Leaders, to seek an urgent meeting with you, involving a cross-party delegation, including rural representation.
We believe there is a need to have an open and honest discussion with you on the best way to achieve the ends we all want to see: safer roads, transport choice and equality of access, reducing emissions, healthy communities and thriving local economies. The current set of highways and transport policies are all well-intentioned and laudable in their own right, but we feel there is a better way to approach them. Leaders’ general feeling was that they are being handed down to councils rather than being developed with us.
Whilst we have been grateful to the Deputy Minister for his readiness to engage with Leaders and Transport Cabinet Members on these issues, members have been concerned about the nature of the debate and tone of the meetings. Leaders stressed the importance of mutual respect in our discussions. This has been at the heart of our successful joint working across a wide range of service areas.
We would be grateful if your office could liaise with WLGA officials to find a suitable date for a cross-party group of Leaders to meet with you. We are sure we can table date for a cross-party group of Leaders to meet with you. We are sure we can work together to agree a mutually acceptable way to take these matters forward.
Yours faithfully
Councillor Andrew Morgan (WLGA Leader)
Councillor Rob Stewart (WLGA Deputy Leader | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
| |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:24 - Dec 5 with 973 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:41 - Dec 4 by Kilkennyjack |
Its not a blanket 20 mph mun …🥳 |
The default/blanket limit on urban roads in Wales is 20mph. Any exception to this default limit, to replace it by 30 mph zones have to be applied for. It use to be 30mph before Drakeford changed it.
In the rest of the Uk the default/blanket limit on urban roads is 30mp. Any exceptions to reduce it to 20mph outside schools, hospitals and accident blackspots has to be applied for.
Even you I am sure can spot the difference, 466,578 Welsh voters have signed the petition to rescind the 20 mph blanket law.
Only 5398 Welsh votes have signed the petition to keep the blanket 20mph law. [Post edited 5 Dec 2023 11:25]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 14:50 - Dec 5 with 930 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:47 - Dec 4 by onehunglow |
Oh good
Now who defines what roads are? |
Well ….. by my house nearly all the speed limits remain unchanged.
School areas and housing estates are newly 20, but its not everywhere.
Not much of a blanket ban tbh…. 🏴 | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 16:53 - Dec 5 with 901 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:24 - Dec 5 by felixstowe_jack |
The default/blanket limit on urban roads in Wales is 20mph. Any exception to this default limit, to replace it by 30 mph zones have to be applied for. It use to be 30mph before Drakeford changed it.
In the rest of the Uk the default/blanket limit on urban roads is 30mp. Any exceptions to reduce it to 20mph outside schools, hospitals and accident blackspots has to be applied for.
Even you I am sure can spot the difference, 466,578 Welsh voters have signed the petition to rescind the 20 mph blanket law.
Only 5398 Welsh votes have signed the petition to keep the blanket 20mph law. [Post edited 5 Dec 2023 11:25]
|
The speed limits near me were 30 and 40 previously ……. and remain 30 and 40 now.
No applications, no nothing.
Nothing has changed.
I guess as you dont live here, you dont get what i am saying. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The 20MPH punishments on 17:02 - Dec 5 with 899 views | Kilkennyjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 23:40 - Dec 4 by Boundy |
Plaid ( now there's a laugh on a cold Monday Swansea evening ) had concerns regarding the underfunding of public service funding , I see those in cardiff yet again show a distinct lack of joined up thinking
"Plaid’s Llyr Gruffydd says bus cuts will leave communities “without public transport options”
A leaked letter from the Welsh Local Government Association (WLGA) has revealed that top Labour councillors believe the Welsh Government’s plans to cut bus funding will cut off communities.
Plaid Cymru MS Llyr Gruffydd said the letter showed his party’s serious concerns about the future of transport throughout Wales was shared by councillors in all parts of Wales and urged the Labour Government to rethink the funding cuts.
In a letter to the First Minister, Mark Drakeford, dated 13th March, Labour Councillors Andrew Morgan and Rob Stewart, the WLGA’s Leader and Deputy Leader, outlined several issues in the Welsh Government’s “Top-down” transport policy, which was causing a “perfect storm for communities”, and an approach to bringing about change in transport policy that is “all stick and no carrot”.
The letter to the First Minister outlined several areas of concern, including:
The Roads Review, where there was very limited contact with council Leaders after the review had reached its conclusions, and the “narrow and desk-based nature of much of the Roads Review work”.
‘Cart before horse’ planning, referring to the lack of investment in public transport alternatives needed to encourage people out of cars and on to public transport.
The “sheer volume of transport-related issues” which is leaving councils struggling to manage at present, with more proposals by the Welsh Government placing councils’ highways and transport staff under great pressure. It also raised concern that there would be implications from policies such as the default 20mph on school transport and winter service plans, with longer shifts needing to be covered.
Rural concerns, where there is no public transport services in some areas – having a knock on effect on economic development, and where active travel is “simply not a realistic option”.
Social inequality and exclusion for many residents where “public transport is a lifeline as they either cannot afford, or are unable, to drive.”
Concerns about the Deputy First Minister’s conduct which has led councillors to be “concerned about the nature of the debate and tone of the meetings”.
Plaid Cymru held a debate in the Senedd on the future of the Bus Emergency Scheme earlier this week which called on the Welsh Government to extend the scheme for at least 18 months to provide longer-term financial security to bus operators across Wales. The motion also called on the government to bring forward long-term secure funding options to maintain bus services, as opposed to emergency funding schemes.
Both calls were rejected by the Labour Government and transport minister Lee Waters.
The leaked letter revels that Cllrs Andrew Morgan and Rob Stewart both agree with Plaid Cymru’s call and called on the Welsh Government to secure funding for buses in the long term, writing:
Agreeing with Plaid Cymru’s calls on the Welsh Government to secure funding for buses in the long term, Cllrs Andrew Morgan and Rob Stewart said:
“The fact [Bus Funding] is being extended was welcomed but there was a call for ways to be found to make the funding permanent so that services can be protected. Whilst passenger numbers have not recovered post-Covid, they never will if services start to be cut across Wales. […] “Loss of bus services is potentially devastating for these groups [older people, young people, people with disabilities and low income households], impacting on their well-being by restricting access to educational, economic, health and leisure services and to family and social contacts.”
Responding to the critical letter, Plaid Cymru’s spokesperson for Local Government, Llyr Gruffydd MS, said:
“It’s clear that Plaid Cymru’s serious concerns about the future of transport throughout Wales are shared by councillors in all parts of Wales. In particular, there is a great deal of concern about the future of bus services which, as they stand, will leave communities cut off. This is why Plaid Cymru put forward a debate in the Senedd this week on the future of the Bus Emergency Scheme.”
“The Welsh Government’s current plans on buses are set to leave communities without public transport options. This could be disastrous for many – particularly older people, vulnerable groups, poorer communities, and those who live in rural areas.
“It was also worrying to read in the WLGA’s letter to the First Minister that there are issues surrounding the conduct of the Deputy Minister for Transport, particularly the ‘nature of the debate and tone of the meetings’.
“At the centre of any plan to ensure a greener future for all of Wales must be a public transport system that is improved and equally available to all. Any plan to ensure this must take everyone in Wales along with it.”
WLGA letter to the First Minister, 13 March 2023
Dear First Minister,
TRANSPORT MATTERS: Roads review, bus funding/BES3 and franchising proposals, 20mph default, pavement parking, Active Travel and Regional Transport Plans
At the WLGA Executive Board meeting on 24th February, Leaders considered reports on the Roads Review and on Bus Funding. Together, the reports generated a long discussion which took up the majority of the meeting. Leaders are fully supportive of efforts to reduce carbon emissions and to improve public transport and active transport alternatives. However, a long list of concerns was aired and it was agreed these raise such important issues, transcending transport to impact on all other council service areas, that we should write to you as First Minister.
The main issues raised were as follows:
The lack of local engagement by the team that undertook the Roads Review: There was very limited contact with Leaders and then only after the review had reached its conclusions. There was no attempt to discuss the review with either of us, as WLGA Leader/Transport Spokesperson and Deputy Leader/Economy Spokesperson. Local communities that will be affected by the decisions were given no opportunity to input from their lived experiences. This ‘top down’ approach has raised wider concerns over Regional Transport Plans and the scope there will be for local discretion.
The narrow and desk-based nature of much of the Roads Review work: There is little knowledge or evidence of field work being undertaken by the team on the ground in the localities affected. Indeed, the team appears to have divided up the roads to carry out their assessments, with not all team members visiting or being involved in each case. The focus on the merits or otherwise of road proposals was felt to have overlooked much wider dependencies and issues of community resilience linked to such schemes.
‘Cart before horse’ planning: This phrase was used in the meeting, referring to the lack of investment in public transport alternatives needed to encourage people out of cars and on to public transport. The fact BES3 is being extended was welcomed but there was a call for ways to be found to make the funding permanent so that services can be protected. Whilst passenger numbers have not recovered post-Covid, they never will if services start to be cut across Wales. There were concerns it will result in a downward spiral of decline. The incongruity of having a concessionary pass but no bus to use it on was raised, predictably.
The sheer volume of transport-related issues councils are struggling to manage at present: As the heading of this letter indicates, there is a long list of transport-related projects and requirements, all of which are being taken forward simultaneously. The proposal on pavement parking enforcement is just the most recent example. This is placing councils’ highways and transport staff under great pressure with much of it being on top of the ‘day job’, such as maintaining highways and structures, keeping daily bus services running smoothly. Difficulties recruiting technical staff are exacerbating the position.
Implications for home to school transport and winter service plans – serious concerns were raised about the implications of the current circumstances for school transport. For some time now councils have been faced with operators withdrawing services only to see costs escalate dramatically when routes are re-tendered. If we start to lose services, drivers and even some operators, the situation is only going to worsen. The 20mph default speed limit, whilst having considerable support, will lengthen some home to school journey times, add to operator costs and put further upward pressure on tender prices. There are also implications of the 20mph default limit for winter service, as gritters travel at an average 28mph so the new limit will extend the time needed for runs, impacting on operators’ hours.
Rural concerns - a number of Leaders from the more rural authorities spoke of there already being no public transport services in some areas. They fear this will become more extensive. In such communities active travel is simply not a realistic option for many journeys given distances, weather conditions, terrain and safety concerns. Attempts to attract businesses to rural areas to create local sources of employment and reduce the need to travel are felt to be at risk if vital highway improvements and access routes are effectively ruled out and public transport options are not available.
Social inequality and exclusion: The point was made that for many residents, especially older people, young people, people with disabilities and low income households, public transport is a lifeline as they either cannot afford, or are unable, to drive. Loss of bus services is potentially devastating for these groups, impacting on their well-being by restricting access to educational, economic, heath and leisure services and to family and social contacts.
Taken together, one Leader described the situation as a ‘perfect storm’ for communities. Another referred to the current approach as ‘all stick and no carrot’. There was a proposal, endorsed by all Leaders, to seek an urgent meeting with you, involving a cross-party delegation, including rural representation.
We believe there is a need to have an open and honest discussion with you on the best way to achieve the ends we all want to see: safer roads, transport choice and equality of access, reducing emissions, healthy communities and thriving local economies. The current set of highways and transport policies are all well-intentioned and laudable in their own right, but we feel there is a better way to approach them. Leaders’ general feeling was that they are being handed down to councils rather than being developed with us.
Whilst we have been grateful to the Deputy Minister for his readiness to engage with Leaders and Transport Cabinet Members on these issues, members have been concerned about the nature of the debate and tone of the meetings. Leaders stressed the importance of mutual respect in our discussions. This has been at the heart of our successful joint working across a wide range of service areas.
We would be grateful if your office could liaise with WLGA officials to find a suitable date for a cross-party group of Leaders to meet with you. We are sure we can table date for a cross-party group of Leaders to meet with you. We are sure we can work together to agree a mutually acceptable way to take these matters forward.
Yours faithfully
Councillor Andrew Morgan (WLGA Leader)
Councillor Rob Stewart (WLGA Deputy Leader |
Perhaps the billions in funding that was stolen from Wales as part of HS2 would provide some investment in welsh transport needs.
England got HS2 money.
Scotland got HS2 money.
The north of Ireland got HS2 money.
Cymru got nothing.
Cymru did get to provide taxation to fund HS2 though.
I know its only £5billion between friends, but we in Wales have been feckin swindled. [Post edited 5 Dec 2023 17:03]
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| Beware of the Risen People
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:14 - Dec 5 with 868 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:02 - Dec 5 by Kilkennyjack |
Perhaps the billions in funding that was stolen from Wales as part of HS2 would provide some investment in welsh transport needs.
England got HS2 money.
Scotland got HS2 money.
The north of Ireland got HS2 money.
Cymru got nothing.
Cymru did get to provide taxation to fund HS2 though.
I know its only £5billion between friends, but we in Wales have been feckin swindled. [Post edited 5 Dec 2023 17:03]
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Drakeford was offered full funding for the M4 relief road as part of the UK infrastructure programme. He turned it down.
Wales also gets an annual subsidy from Westminster, worth about £7 billion, under the Barnett formula. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:18 - Dec 5 with 867 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 16:53 - Dec 5 by Kilkennyjack |
The speed limits near me were 30 and 40 previously ……. and remain 30 and 40 now.
No applications, no nothing.
Nothing has changed.
I guess as you dont live here, you dont get what i am saying. |
You are wrong the default/blanket speed limit in urban areas in Wales is 20mph. Exceptions for higher speed limits have to be applied for.
Why you can't see this is beyond comprehensive.
"There are none as blind as those that will not see" | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 19:35 - Dec 5 with 864 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:18 - Dec 5 by felixstowe_jack |
You are wrong the default/blanket speed limit in urban areas in Wales is 20mph. Exceptions for higher speed limits have to be applied for.
Why you can't see this is beyond comprehensive.
"There are none as blind as those that will not see" |
I remember that song Felix.
You? | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 20:39 - Dec 5 with 846 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:24 - Dec 5 by felixstowe_jack |
The default/blanket limit on urban roads in Wales is 20mph. Any exception to this default limit, to replace it by 30 mph zones have to be applied for. It use to be 30mph before Drakeford changed it.
In the rest of the Uk the default/blanket limit on urban roads is 30mp. Any exceptions to reduce it to 20mph outside schools, hospitals and accident blackspots has to be applied for.
Even you I am sure can spot the difference, 466,578 Welsh voters have signed the petition to rescind the 20 mph blanket law.
Only 5398 Welsh votes have signed the petition to keep the blanket 20mph law. [Post edited 5 Dec 2023 11:25]
|
And the nglish version is what Wales should have done. Looked at the roads, decided which roads needed to be 20 and changed only those roads.
it would have been easier, cheaper and much more efficient to just change those roads that actually needed changing.
There again, at the same time they are attacking motorists they are also cutting bus funding. Even Plaid are calling them on it.
I wonder if Lee Waters will give up his car and use "active travel" but I think I know, he won't because he's a politician and it's do as I say not as I do. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:07 - Dec 8 with 665 views | Boundy |
This published in 2017
Serious road casualties fall
There are more motorists on the roads of Wales than there were 20 years ago - but fewer serious crashes.
Just over 1,000 people were badly injured on Wales' roads last year, with more than 100 killed.
This is however half way towards a target of cutting serious casualties by 40% from the average between 2004 and 2008.
This is also despite the numbers of cars on the roads in Wales rising by 427,000 since 1997. Traffic volume has also risen from 24.18 billion km to 28.40 billion km.
There is a target of cutting serious motorcycle casualties by 25% by 2020, although little progress has been made on this | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
| |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:13 - Dec 8 with 627 views | majorraglan |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:07 - Dec 8 by Boundy |
This published in 2017
Serious road casualties fall
There are more motorists on the roads of Wales than there were 20 years ago - but fewer serious crashes.
Just over 1,000 people were badly injured on Wales' roads last year, with more than 100 killed.
This is however half way towards a target of cutting serious casualties by 40% from the average between 2004 and 2008.
This is also despite the numbers of cars on the roads in Wales rising by 427,000 since 1997. Traffic volume has also risen from 24.18 billion km to 28.40 billion km.
There is a target of cutting serious motorcycle casualties by 25% by 2020, although little progress has been made on this |
The increase in cars and distance travelled and the reduction in casualties puts some context on the matter. 100 people killed and over 1,000 hurt isn’t good, but we really need the detail to be able ascertain the exact picture because if 90% of those killed and seriously injured were on national speed limit roads or related drink and drugs then the arguments for the 20mph are diminished. The increased road usage is a major factor and I suggest has been overlooked by some.
I had a councillor knock on my door this evening canvassing support for the Labour MP who will be represent this area at the next GE following the boundary changes. I expressed my displeasure with the way the 20mph limit had been introduced (annd in particular Lee Waters) and Drakers proposed increase in the number of politicians in the Senedd. Seems I wasn’t the only person to have bent the councillors ear over the issues - pretty much everyone she’s spoken to said the same, the councillor tried to put some distance between themselves and Waters at the Senedd!
It may not have any impact, but I sure felt better giving them a piece of my mind and getting it off my chest! [Post edited 8 Dec 2023 22:15]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 22:29 - Dec 8 with 617 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:07 - Dec 8 by Boundy |
This published in 2017
Serious road casualties fall
There are more motorists on the roads of Wales than there were 20 years ago - but fewer serious crashes.
Just over 1,000 people were badly injured on Wales' roads last year, with more than 100 killed.
This is however half way towards a target of cutting serious casualties by 40% from the average between 2004 and 2008.
This is also despite the numbers of cars on the roads in Wales rising by 427,000 since 1997. Traffic volume has also risen from 24.18 billion km to 28.40 billion km.
There is a target of cutting serious motorcycle casualties by 25% by 2020, although little progress has been made on this |
3 people a day badly injured and 2 people a week killed on our roads, for a small country like Wales those are dreadful statistics. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 23:43 - Dec 8 with 598 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:29 - Dec 8 by lifelong |
3 people a day badly injured and 2 people a week killed on our roads, for a small country like Wales those are dreadful statistics. |
No death is a good death but put it into context , life is a risk so even at 20 mph are you suggesting that anyone hit by a car is exempt from serious and yes death, current concerns by the Fire and rescue are such that studies show that a adult hit by a car travelling at 30 mph is just as likely to survive the impact as someone hit by a car travelling at 20mph. car design is such now ( with the exception of some SUVs) that sloping bonnets push the casualty up and away from the vehicle , at 20mph you're more likely to be hit and run over .
You keep repeating statistics regarding deaths on our roads , I'd be more concerned about the lack of screening for pancreatic ( where survival rates in Wales are one of the lowest not just in the UK but the world), or prostate cancer where a simple blood test could provide a early sign of the offset of the disease
It seems to me that most politician and voters priorities are all wrong. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 10:17 - Dec 9 with 539 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 23:43 - Dec 8 by Boundy |
No death is a good death but put it into context , life is a risk so even at 20 mph are you suggesting that anyone hit by a car is exempt from serious and yes death, current concerns by the Fire and rescue are such that studies show that a adult hit by a car travelling at 30 mph is just as likely to survive the impact as someone hit by a car travelling at 20mph. car design is such now ( with the exception of some SUVs) that sloping bonnets push the casualty up and away from the vehicle , at 20mph you're more likely to be hit and run over .
You keep repeating statistics regarding deaths on our roads , I'd be more concerned about the lack of screening for pancreatic ( where survival rates in Wales are one of the lowest not just in the UK but the world), or prostate cancer where a simple blood test could provide a early sign of the offset of the disease
It seems to me that most politician and voters priorities are all wrong. |
Yes, ok then.
Let’s just scrap the 20mph limit because somebody hit by a car doing 30mph will bounce off the vehicle… bloody hell. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:31 - Dec 9 with 535 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:17 - Dec 9 by lifelong |
Yes, ok then.
Let’s just scrap the 20mph limit because somebody hit by a car doing 30mph will bounce off the vehicle… bloody hell. |
You’ve made your point.
Boundy has a different perspective, so do I.
More are killed by lack of observation,anticipation ,concentration and motor vehicle control.
A dxxxhead driving at 20 mph is still lethal.
Until drivers start to realise driving a vehicle requires 100 %concentration 100% of the time ,people will get killed . Most drivers are preoccupied with their wife/ husband,work worries,the time ,where to go on holidays, or what to have for tea . Fact.
“ it all happened so fast” is a phrase I encountered too many times and it’s branded on my brain forever.
Recall the appalling attitudes towards cyclists on the very site. It’s all about attitude ,in fact | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 11:26 - Dec 9 with 521 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:13 - Dec 8 by majorraglan |
The increase in cars and distance travelled and the reduction in casualties puts some context on the matter. 100 people killed and over 1,000 hurt isn’t good, but we really need the detail to be able ascertain the exact picture because if 90% of those killed and seriously injured were on national speed limit roads or related drink and drugs then the arguments for the 20mph are diminished. The increased road usage is a major factor and I suggest has been overlooked by some.
I had a councillor knock on my door this evening canvassing support for the Labour MP who will be represent this area at the next GE following the boundary changes. I expressed my displeasure with the way the 20mph limit had been introduced (annd in particular Lee Waters) and Drakers proposed increase in the number of politicians in the Senedd. Seems I wasn’t the only person to have bent the councillors ear over the issues - pretty much everyone she’s spoken to said the same, the councillor tried to put some distance between themselves and Waters at the Senedd!
It may not have any impact, but I sure felt better giving them a piece of my mind and getting it off my chest! [Post edited 8 Dec 2023 22:15]
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I totally agree , a review of all data which roads are continually having the same type of accidents i e collisions with pedestrians, a review of all existing pedestrian crossings where they exist and then a review of where they should be installed. This would be an exercise in common sense thinking, they believe that by reducing the speed limits . The fixed speed camera on Peniel Green road was installed due to a lady being knocked down ,that section of road between Skewen and the traffic lights at Peniel Green is the only controlled crossing a distance of 3 miles (TBC) then after that a further mile until a pelican crossing adjacent to the Chinese take away . This road is residential so ask yourself this , if you have to rely on your senses ( which maybe failing ) or a physical impairment then how is one supposed to cross the road safely , without walking further than you need to ,that's why many take a chance when crossing the road . How many of us as drivers have seen pedestrians crossing a road 2o yards forma controlled crossing , I know I have many a time. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 11:32 - Dec 9 with 519 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:17 - Dec 9 by lifelong |
Yes, ok then.
Let’s just scrap the 20mph limit because somebody hit by a car doing 30mph will bounce off the vehicle… bloody hell. |
You have your opinion on the speed reduction ,which looks like you're more concerned about saving 3 lives than perhaps hundreds due to the lack of of preventative health monitoring.
Please could you provide anecdotal evidence of how those weekly deaths occurred ? | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 12:43 - Dec 9 with 506 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:26 - Dec 9 by Boundy |
I totally agree , a review of all data which roads are continually having the same type of accidents i e collisions with pedestrians, a review of all existing pedestrian crossings where they exist and then a review of where they should be installed. This would be an exercise in common sense thinking, they believe that by reducing the speed limits . The fixed speed camera on Peniel Green road was installed due to a lady being knocked down ,that section of road between Skewen and the traffic lights at Peniel Green is the only controlled crossing a distance of 3 miles (TBC) then after that a further mile until a pelican crossing adjacent to the Chinese take away . This road is residential so ask yourself this , if you have to rely on your senses ( which maybe failing ) or a physical impairment then how is one supposed to cross the road safely , without walking further than you need to ,that's why many take a chance when crossing the road . How many of us as drivers have seen pedestrians crossing a road 2o yards forma controlled crossing , I know I have many a time. |
Therein lies the problem, the Senedd has presented THEIR information and stats to back up their idea but if we saw all of the info, all of the relevant stats it may blow their arguments away.
And yes, I regularly see people crossing roads just a short distance from a crossing point. In fact, take a drive up to Morriston hospital, sit outside the main entrance and just watch how many people ignore the 2 crossings that are only about 100 yards apart and walk straight across the road, often walking out in front of oncoming traffic, a lot of them are staff too. Taken a bit further, I also see a lot f people driving through the hospital clearly going too fast AND ignoring road markings. Take the diabetic centre, there's an entrance and an exit for cars but a lot of people ignore it and I have had several near misses there with the other driver often having a go at me at which point I mention the road markings, some crawl up their own behinds but a few just say "oh eff off" or words to that effect.
Too many people don't give a shit, they do what the hell the please when they please and if it all goes wrong they say it's not their fault. The world is full of idiots.
Just yesterday I was coming home, I got to a roundabout and the person to my left didn't give way, he accelerated across the front of me and nearly crashed, it was his fault but he launched into a tirade at the car he nearly hit.
People are stupid. So, regardless of laws and speed limits accidents will continue to happen because of mass stupidity. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:04 - Dec 9 with 500 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:32 - Dec 9 by Boundy |
You have your opinion on the speed reduction ,which looks like you're more concerned about saving 3 lives than perhaps hundreds due to the lack of of preventative health monitoring.
Please could you provide anecdotal evidence of how those weekly deaths occurred ? |
What do you mean I am more concerned about saving three lives than perhaps hundreds due to lack of preventive health monitoring?
You know nothing about me and my family circumstances, perhaps if you did you wouldn’t throw out such a comment.
I have great concerns about cancer monitoring, it is a totally different subject to this thread, you put out the stats regarding road accidents and I replied to it. | | | |
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