| The 20MPH punishments 08:34 - Aug 3 with 97645 views | SullutaCreturned |
Well the punishment for breaking the limit,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-confirm-how-punish-drivers-
Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness. |  | | |  |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:20 - Dec 19 with 1495 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:43 - Dec 19 by SullutaCreturned |
And what was the cause of those accidents, was it people driving safely or was it idiots/drunks/drug drivers and/or speeding?
Those safe drivers obeying the limit will still have accidents when they meet up with the idiots etc and what will the response from government be? Will they lower the limit again? |
What do we do then, leave things as they are so that 3 people a day are killed, seriously injured or injured on our roads every year in 30 mph limit zones? |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:34 - Dec 19 with 1460 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:20 - Dec 19 by lifelong |
What do we do then, leave things as they are so that 3 people a day are killed, seriously injured or injured on our roads every year in 30 mph limit zones? |
No, you go after the cause of the problem so you have more cameras, more police on the roads and greater punishments for speeding and dangerous driving.
Then you start teaching schoolkids how to cross the roads again, like we had when we were young.
Maybe go American and make jaywalking a crime.
Then, if we must reduce speed limits plan it properly and implement it properly getting the councils to nominate which roads need to be 20 and changing ONLY those. The way they have gone about it is berserk and with every road being changed it will cost more money again (that we don't have) when they start changing the newly exempted roads back, what a waste of money. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:57 - Dec 19 with 1428 views | lifelong |
But every 30mph roads haven’t been changed, take the Swansea area as an example, the main arterial roads leading into the city centre have not been changed. Carmarthen Road, Fabian Way ( I realise a short section) Mumbles Road/Oystermouth Road that were 30mph before the new legislation are still 30mph. The minor offshoots of these roads have been changed because they are mainly leasing into heavily populated areas.
I drove into the City Centre today and parked in Parc Tawe and genuinely saw no difference to the many times I have done this journey previous to the new restrictions. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:46 - Dec 19 with 1394 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:57 - Dec 19 by lifelong |
But every 30mph roads haven’t been changed, take the Swansea area as an example, the main arterial roads leading into the city centre have not been changed. Carmarthen Road, Fabian Way ( I realise a short section) Mumbles Road/Oystermouth Road that were 30mph before the new legislation are still 30mph. The minor offshoots of these roads have been changed because they are mainly leasing into heavily populated areas.
I drove into the City Centre today and parked in Parc Tawe and genuinely saw no difference to the many times I have done this journey previous to the new restrictions. |
You should get out and about more. The roads from the HoV to M4 there are many 20 mph through the villages on the main commute routes, this is Labour heartland and they are going to pay for it. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:49 - Dec 20 with 1323 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:20 - Dec 19 by lifelong |
What do we do then, leave things as they are so that 3 people a day are killed, seriously injured or injured on our roads every year in 30 mph limit zones? |
Only 3 people are not killed every day in 30mph zones. The total road deaths in Wales last year were 95. Only 30% of these were in 30 mph zones approximately 30 that is less than 3 a month.
The other 65 are mostly on the most dangerous roads in Wales are rural single carriageways with speed limits up to 60mph.
This is area the Welsh government should be targeting to reduce deaths by investing in new roads especially in know accident black spot. The evidence is clear the heads of the valley was Wales worst accident blackspot since the majority of it has been dualled it is now one of Wales safest roads. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 10:08 - Dec 20 with 1313 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:49 - Dec 20 by felixstowe_jack |
Only 3 people are not killed every day in 30mph zones. The total road deaths in Wales last year were 95. Only 30% of these were in 30 mph zones approximately 30 that is less than 3 a month.
The other 65 are mostly on the most dangerous roads in Wales are rural single carriageways with speed limits up to 60mph.
This is area the Welsh government should be targeting to reduce deaths by investing in new roads especially in know accident black spot. The evidence is clear the heads of the valley was Wales worst accident blackspot since the majority of it has been dualled it is now one of Wales safest roads. |
Much of the 483 is lethal and has national speed limit .
It is is speed LIMIT . | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 10:12 - Dec 20 with 1310 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:34 - Dec 19 by SullutaCreturned |
No, you go after the cause of the problem so you have more cameras, more police on the roads and greater punishments for speeding and dangerous driving.
Then you start teaching schoolkids how to cross the roads again, like we had when we were young.
Maybe go American and make jaywalking a crime.
Then, if we must reduce speed limits plan it properly and implement it properly getting the councils to nominate which roads need to be 20 and changing ONLY those. The way they have gone about it is berserk and with every road being changed it will cost more money again (that we don't have) when they start changing the newly exempted roads back, what a waste of money. |
Successive Governments ,especially Mays saw brutal police cuts,especially to Traffic Departments,the very one that we need now to stop slaughter on the roads .
Consider the clowns who view motorways as having a “ fast” lane and see the “ middle” lane as a safe ,cruising lane .
Lorry drivers…don’t get me started . 40 ton tail gating at 60 mph with a half asleep jerk at the wheel reading his phone texts . | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 10:44 - Dec 20 with 1298 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:49 - Dec 20 by felixstowe_jack |
Only 3 people are not killed every day in 30mph zones. The total road deaths in Wales last year were 95. Only 30% of these were in 30 mph zones approximately 30 that is less than 3 a month.
The other 65 are mostly on the most dangerous roads in Wales are rural single carriageways with speed limits up to 60mph.
This is area the Welsh government should be targeting to reduce deaths by investing in new roads especially in know accident black spot. The evidence is clear the heads of the valley was Wales worst accident blackspot since the majority of it has been dualled it is now one of Wales safest roads. |
Again you seem to ignore the fact that over a thousand people a year are injured on 30mph roads, over 400 of which are seriously injured every year in Wales. | | | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 10:57 - Dec 20 with 1295 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:44 - Dec 20 by lifelong |
Again you seem to ignore the fact that over a thousand people a year are injured on 30mph roads, over 400 of which are seriously injured every year in Wales. |
Again you ignore the fact that most serious accidents and serious injuries do no occur on 30mph roads. Most accidents in 30 mph are minor and at low speeds because most vehicles have braked and slowed down before the collision.
If we followed your logic we would ban all cars and have no crashes. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 12:18 - Dec 20 with 1269 views | onehunglow |
Recently drove 200 miles on motorway network
Noted at least 20 driving holding a mobile four eating a sarnie at the wheel and one white van killer pouring a drink from a flask
These are the ones who kill several on one incident | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 13:41 - Dec 20 with 1237 views | JumpingJackFlash |
Lots of 50mph limits on motorways in South Wales. Most have been put in place fairly recently to “reduce pollution”. Port Talbot is an exception having always been 50mph on the elevated section.
If you drive an electric vehicle, logic suggests that you should be exempt from the speed limit put in place to reduce pollution and be lawfully able to drive at 70mph. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:21 - Dec 20 with 1221 views | pencoedjack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 13:41 - Dec 20 by JumpingJackFlash |
Lots of 50mph limits on motorways in South Wales. Most have been put in place fairly recently to “reduce pollution”. Port Talbot is an exception having always been 50mph on the elevated section.
If you drive an electric vehicle, logic suggests that you should be exempt from the speed limit put in place to reduce pollution and be lawfully able to drive at 70mph. |
If you are holidaying in West Wales after crossing the bridge you drive at 50 mph from Magor to Tredegar Park (except for the tunnels when you are lucky to get up to 20mph) then from Port Talbot past Swansea with the 'reduce pollution' signs as you drive pass a steel works.
Now whilst on holiday you are subjected to 20 mph speed limits.
Add on top the hotel tax, we are doing a great job in getting people to holiday in Wales. |  | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:56 - Dec 20 with 1213 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:21 - Dec 20 by pencoedjack |
If you are holidaying in West Wales after crossing the bridge you drive at 50 mph from Magor to Tredegar Park (except for the tunnels when you are lucky to get up to 20mph) then from Port Talbot past Swansea with the 'reduce pollution' signs as you drive pass a steel works.
Now whilst on holiday you are subjected to 20 mph speed limits.
Add on top the hotel tax, we are doing a great job in getting people to holiday in Wales. |
Throw in the incoming pub closures because the increased business tax. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:05 - Dec 20 with 1178 views | Togg |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:57 - Dec 20 by felixstowe_jack |
Again you ignore the fact that most serious accidents and serious injuries do no occur on 30mph roads. Most accidents in 30 mph are minor and at low speeds because most vehicles have braked and slowed down before the collision.
If we followed your logic we would ban all cars and have no crashes. |
Country roads most accidents and fatalities. Care of my last and only Drive Awareness course. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:28 - Dec 20 with 1150 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:44 - Dec 20 by lifelong |
Again you seem to ignore the fact that over a thousand people a year are injured on 30mph roads, over 400 of which are seriously injured every year in Wales. |
And AGAIn, what speed were those drivers doing, were they driving safely or were any of them under the influence of alcohol or drugs?
30 mph limits aren;t the cause of the accidents, the drivers are. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:59 - Dec 20 with 1129 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:28 - Dec 20 by SullutaCreturned |
And AGAIn, what speed were those drivers doing, were they driving safely or were any of them under the influence of alcohol or drugs?
30 mph limits aren;t the cause of the accidents, the drivers are. |
Would you like to comment regarding my earlier post regarding the results of the Hull survey over a long period of time some years ago? | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:28 - Dec 20 with 1085 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:59 - Dec 20 by lifelong |
Would you like to comment regarding my earlier post regarding the results of the Hull survey over a long period of time some years ago? |
And would you care to comment whether the money spent thus far and the predicted losses (welsh government figures) on the economy and with that an impact on taxes raised ,could have been better spent on saving lives of cancer patients or are you only focused on the lower numbers but seemingly more important | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 23:29 - Dec 20 with 1042 views | lifelong |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:28 - Dec 20 by Boundy |
And would you care to comment whether the money spent thus far and the predicted losses (welsh government figures) on the economy and with that an impact on taxes raised ,could have been better spent on saving lives of cancer patients or are you only focused on the lower numbers but seemingly more important |
I am focused on the subject of this thread which is whether the 20mph will reduce the number of fatalities, seriously injured and injured people in 30mph limit roads in Wales.
The results of the study in Hull were remarkable, it stated that over a five year period if the 20mph limit had been implemented in the whole of Yorkshire it could have, potentially, prevented 140 children being killed or seriously injured.
If you are quoting what the Welsh Government have said they said initially that the setting up of the new legislation cost £32m with the potential of saving the NHS £95m.
Of course more money should be available for serious health conditions like cancer, heart disease, dementia etc. The Welsh Government will be spending £11 billion on the health service next year with £435m extra being made available from cuts they are making. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 07:35 - Dec 21 with 996 views | felixstowe_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 23:29 - Dec 20 by lifelong |
I am focused on the subject of this thread which is whether the 20mph will reduce the number of fatalities, seriously injured and injured people in 30mph limit roads in Wales.
The results of the study in Hull were remarkable, it stated that over a five year period if the 20mph limit had been implemented in the whole of Yorkshire it could have, potentially, prevented 140 children being killed or seriously injured.
If you are quoting what the Welsh Government have said they said initially that the setting up of the new legislation cost £32m with the potential of saving the NHS £95m.
Of course more money should be available for serious health conditions like cancer, heart disease, dementia etc. The Welsh Government will be spending £11 billion on the health service next year with £435m extra being made available from cuts they are making. |
I like your first line could have but did not actually save tye numbers you claim. The Befast study showed it made no significant difference.
Very few serious injuries are caused by motorist driving in a safe manner under 30mph.
The main causes of accidents in 30mph are
Excessive speed drivers doing OVER 30mph
Drink driving
Drug driving
Dangerous driving
Careless driving
Using mobiles
Unqualified drivers
Banned drivers.
The money spent on ineffective 20mph signs and restrictions would be better spent on a crackdown of the causes listed above with extra police checks.
That way deaths and serious injuries would be reduced and cost to NHS reduced. It might even lead to cheaper insurance for everyone.
Guess that solution is too radical for Drakeford and his Senedd friends. | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 16:44 - Dec 21 with 922 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 07:35 - Dec 21 by felixstowe_jack |
I like your first line could have but did not actually save tye numbers you claim. The Befast study showed it made no significant difference.
Very few serious injuries are caused by motorist driving in a safe manner under 30mph.
The main causes of accidents in 30mph are
Excessive speed drivers doing OVER 30mph
Drink driving
Drug driving
Dangerous driving
Careless driving
Using mobiles
Unqualified drivers
Banned drivers.
The money spent on ineffective 20mph signs and restrictions would be better spent on a crackdown of the causes listed above with extra police checks.
That way deaths and serious injuries would be reduced and cost to NHS reduced. It might even lead to cheaper insurance for everyone.
Guess that solution is too radical for Drakeford and his Senedd friends. |
I would say the reason they changed the limts and didn't do those other things is because they took the cheapest option.
They must make sure there is enough money to increase their numbers in the Senedd. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:08 - Dec 21 with 894 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 16:44 - Dec 21 by SullutaCreturned |
I would say the reason they changed the limts and didn't do those other things is because they took the cheapest option.
They must make sure there is enough money to increase their numbers in the Senedd. |
There are literally thousands out there driving without having bothered with a driving test,nor indeed any training whatsoever.
Now,imagine being afforded the opportunity to drive a ton of metal with an engine around the roads free of any legal requirements at all.
To get caught,means you’re unlucky .
If you’re stopped in certain localities , your chums will gather sound and harass police officers charged with making our roads free of clown in cars . They will have their mobiles out.
This is by far a greater problem or issue that driving at 20 rather than 30. These cretins laugh at speed limits | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 17:48 - Dec 27 with 673 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 23:29 - Dec 20 by lifelong |
I am focused on the subject of this thread which is whether the 20mph will reduce the number of fatalities, seriously injured and injured people in 30mph limit roads in Wales.
The results of the study in Hull were remarkable, it stated that over a five year period if the 20mph limit had been implemented in the whole of Yorkshire it could have, potentially, prevented 140 children being killed or seriously injured.
If you are quoting what the Welsh Government have said they said initially that the setting up of the new legislation cost £32m with the potential of saving the NHS £95m.
Of course more money should be available for serious health conditions like cancer, heart disease, dementia etc. The Welsh Government will be spending £11 billion on the health service next year with £435m extra being made available from cuts they are making. |
Sorry missed this, that study is about something that obviously wasn't implemented and so is not proof of anything.
Now the Senedd figures, we all know that any government will put out figures to either back up or disprove something, depending on what they want. In this case the figures back up the 20mph BUT they could be wrong. Given the number of deaths in the last few weeks they may easily be wrong.
Now this "extra" money for the NHS, isnt it true that the NHS is facing cuts too? And they are talking about increasing dentistry costs.
Drakeford says we have no money but still he will increase the number of politicians when every penny counts.
It's been a long held opinion of mine that the more politicians we have, the worse things get. Nothing has happened in many years to change that opinion. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:50 - Dec 29 with 584 views | AnotherJohn |
The latest move in the "war on motorists" is a proposal from Monmouthshire County Council to reimpose Severn bridge toll fees. The intention appears to be to reduce traffic flowing in to South Wales for environmental reasons.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/welsh-labour-council-moves-to-reintroduce-
Of course, the WG would need to be convinced this made sense, but I have no faith in their judgment. A cringeworthy interview with Drakeford was broadcast recently in which he reviewed his achievements, and said the only problem with the default 20mph policy was that more should have been done to educate the public in advance. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 11:00 - Dec 29 with 582 views | controversial_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:50 - Dec 29 by AnotherJohn |
The latest move in the "war on motorists" is a proposal from Monmouthshire County Council to reimpose Severn bridge toll fees. The intention appears to be to reduce traffic flowing in to South Wales for environmental reasons.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/welsh-labour-council-moves-to-reintroduce-
Of course, the WG would need to be convinced this made sense, but I have no faith in their judgment. A cringeworthy interview with Drakeford was broadcast recently in which he reviewed his achievements, and said the only problem with the default 20mph policy was that more should have been done to educate the public in advance. |
i'm not sure what educating means, surely a speed limit is not exactly rocket science? | | | |
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