| A Brexit Benefit 18:02 - Dec 27 with 4165 views | johnlangy |
I voted remain in the Brexit referendum but this to me appears to be an example of an enormous potential benefit to the UK of leaving the EU which I hadn’t thought of. Or rather an enormous potential benefit to working people in the UK of leaving the EU.
For the last fifty years or so businesses and governments have benefited enormously from access to cheap labour from the EU, mainly Eastern Europeans. Businesses didn’t have to bother particularly about recruitment and retention and training of UK workers because they could take the easy option of bringing in people who were already trained and who would work for less. Which means those businesses were more profitable.
Governments have taken the same attitude. Why spend a fortune training doctors for example when we can get them from other countries. Those countries will have borne the cost of the training and the UK could easily pay them more than their home countries. Everyone’s a winner.
Everyone except of course the other poorer countries who then had to spend more to train more doctors to replace the ones we’d stolen. Everyone also except the British people who may have wanted to train as doctors but found there were no training places for them. The government would have argued that because they were able to cut back on training places for our own doctors (because we’d imported foreign ones) that meant that there was more money available to spend elsewhere.
The problem is that eventually these things come back to bite you on the bum. And the problem has become so much worse over the last thirteen years. About a year ago a Health Trust in Cumbria asked for permission to train an extra thirty doctors that they desperately needed. The answer they got back from the NHS was that if they allowed them to do that they (the NHS) would have to cut thirty places elsewhere in the system. Because the government had cut back on investment in doctor training. This in the middle of a crisis in the numbers of doctors within the NHS.
Similar points could be made for nurses and care workers. Plus so many other groups. Remember two years ago when we didn’t have enough HGV drivers ? Again why train our own when we can take them from other countries.
Now we’ve got the strange situation of the government allowing three times as many immigrants into the country as compared with before Brexit in order to fill the gaps. You might ask what was the point of Brexit. And the answer might be that we’ve taken back control of our borders. The government is in control of who comes in which is what brexiteers wanted. Except people don’t want 750,000 immigrants coming in each year even when the government is in control.
So what’s going to happen ? What if we do really ‘take back control’ and the number of immigrants is cut drastically. Who is going to do the jobs that are left ? British people presumably. Except they’ll say no thank you. They’ll say why should I take a job in a care home, for example, at a low wage. Why should I take a job where I don’t get paid enough to live on, where I have to claim benefits just to get by.
And they’d be right to say no. It’s just a couple of years since people working in care homes were lauded as heroes. They were doing a crucial job in looking after the elderly. And many of them died doing that job because of the criminal decisions taken by the government. If it is a crucial job why doesn’t it pay more ?
And what about other jobs also shown to be crucial during Covid – binmen, supermarket workers, delivery drivers and so on. They are all basic jobs you might say but vitally important when it comes to the whole system working.
So, let’s say we stop most immigration. If businesses want to employ people they will have to actually train British workers to do all these jobs. And pay them a decent wage for doing them. And even if a lot of training is not needed for some jobs it’s been shown that those ‘basic’ jobs are so important in a decent society. So they also will have to be paid a decent, proper living wage.
Which all means that finally all British workers could start being paid a decent wage for their efforts. And in the sixth biggest economy in the world you would imagine that that is exactly as it should be.
Pie in the sky a lot of people will say. Maybe. But it appears that a large majority of British people don’t want mass immigration. So if that immigration is cut to the bone it’s either pay British workers a decent wage to do the jobs or the jobs don’t get done.
And the result of all those ‘crucial’ jobs not being done ? Ever bigger NHS waiting lists, less care home beds available etc etc,
We are in for some very interesting times. |  | | |  |
| A Brexit Benefit on 18:10 - Dec 27 with 2383 views | KeithHaynes |
And soon you will get a pint of wine soon too, just so the retailers can charge everyone the same price as a 750cl. |  |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 18:21 - Dec 27 with 2366 views | SullutaCreturned |
About a year after covid I suggested that people had forgotten we had been lauding so called worthless jobs as really very important. What would we do without cleaners and bin men, without care home workers and supermarket staff.
I agree with what you say and it was always supposed to be a benefit, the big problem being that the handsomely paid board members and senior management don't want to pay a fair wage because it means they get a few million less per year.
As it always has been and shall continue to be, the rich will screw us for every penny because they feel entitled to the vast riches they hoard. And governments will help them. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 18:36 - Dec 27 with 2351 views | Kilkennyjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 18:21 - Dec 27 by SullutaCreturned |
About a year after covid I suggested that people had forgotten we had been lauding so called worthless jobs as really very important. What would we do without cleaners and bin men, without care home workers and supermarket staff.
I agree with what you say and it was always supposed to be a benefit, the big problem being that the handsomely paid board members and senior management don't want to pay a fair wage because it means they get a few million less per year.
As it always has been and shall continue to be, the rich will screw us for every penny because they feel entitled to the vast riches they hoard. And governments will help them. |
This is true.
For example, King Charles benefits personally from people who pass away with no wills and no family. Why would this very wealthy man need more money ?
Maybe he could start with him paying the inheritance tax that he avoiding when the Queen passed.
Only the same as everyone else - no more and no less.
Be good for our roads, schools, armed forces and health care.
King Charles has not done the right thing. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| A Brexit Benefit on 18:37 - Dec 27 with 2351 views | johnlangy |
| A Brexit Benefit on 18:21 - Dec 27 by SullutaCreturned |
About a year after covid I suggested that people had forgotten we had been lauding so called worthless jobs as really very important. What would we do without cleaners and bin men, without care home workers and supermarket staff.
I agree with what you say and it was always supposed to be a benefit, the big problem being that the handsomely paid board members and senior management don't want to pay a fair wage because it means they get a few million less per year.
As it always has been and shall continue to be, the rich will screw us for every penny because they feel entitled to the vast riches they hoard. And governments will help them. |
I agree Cat. It's the way it's always been. But I believe things are about to change.
The internet, and therefore the access to almost anything a person wants to find out about, has only really been around for a relatively short time. Now this generation is so savvy it will not accept the BS that 'they' could get away with in the past.
It could very well happen soon that the Tory party breaks apart into factions, not to mention Labour if they don't make a big success of their first term in office. And if/when that happens the governance of the country will radically change.
As I say, interesting times. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 19:46 - Dec 27 with 2307 views | Kilkennyjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 18:37 - Dec 27 by johnlangy |
I agree Cat. It's the way it's always been. But I believe things are about to change.
The internet, and therefore the access to almost anything a person wants to find out about, has only really been around for a relatively short time. Now this generation is so savvy it will not accept the BS that 'they' could get away with in the past.
It could very well happen soon that the Tory party breaks apart into factions, not to mention Labour if they don't make a big success of their first term in office. And if/when that happens the governance of the country will radically change.
As I say, interesting times. |
This logic is spot on - and you end up with indy or devo max for Wales.
The under 40s dont give a rip about the BBC nor the Daily Fail.
The worry about another Johnson yoon govt has led me to indy. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 20:26 - Dec 27 with 2294 views | JumpingJackFlash |
Unfortunately British people don’t seem to want to do many of these jobs. We are 28% down on applications to do a nursing degree at Swansea University compared to last year. Cardiff University is 34% down.
We had an agreement to bring 50 overseas applicants to Swansea to start the course but around half have withdrawn since the government announcement regarding minimum salary to bring family to Britain.
We now can’t get British students or overseas students.
It’s a massive mess and people are suffering. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:39 - Dec 27 with 2279 views | builthjack |
What idiots voted to leave the EU?
Most farmers I speak to, and I know hundreds, voted leave. The majority regret it now. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| A Brexit Benefit on 21:18 - Dec 27 with 2264 views | Kilkennyjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:39 - Dec 27 by builthjack |
What idiots voted to leave the EU?
Most farmers I speak to, and I know hundreds, voted leave. The majority regret it now. |
I blame the people who sold them lies tbh, but yes they were easily led. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| A Brexit Benefit on 21:24 - Dec 27 with 2258 views | Kilkennyjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:26 - Dec 27 by JumpingJackFlash |
Unfortunately British people don’t seem to want to do many of these jobs. We are 28% down on applications to do a nursing degree at Swansea University compared to last year. Cardiff University is 34% down.
We had an agreement to bring 50 overseas applicants to Swansea to start the course but around half have withdrawn since the government announcement regarding minimum salary to bring family to Britain.
We now can’t get British students or overseas students.
It’s a massive mess and people are suffering. |
Thanks for posting that.
You have sumed up one of the big problems of Brexit so clearly.
And it will be normal people who suffer in the end, not the likes of Johnson and Mogg.
They need to be prosecuted like any shyster business man would be, if he lied and misled about his company.
There needs to be consequences at an individual level. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 22:27 - Dec 27 with 2214 views | majorraglan |
Some very pertinent issues raised. I’ve recently had some dealings with a pretty big company employing over a 1,000 workers across a number of sites. The work isn’t a particularly glamorous and recruiting Brits is difficult so they employ lots of European workers and others who are generally hard working. In terms of wages I’m guessing they are just above minimum wage and lots of Brit’s won’t work for that.
While there’s also going to be an increase in the minimum wage next year, there also going to be an increase in the threshold for bringing workers in to the U.K. The company faces a situation where they may not be able to recruit Brits as we don’t want to do the job, but equally they may not be able to bring in overseas workers. What happens then? Maybe the wages will go up, but what if people still won’t work there? Will the places have to close? If wages go up, then that will feed through to higher prices in the shops.
It’s not straightforward and there are lots of factors to be considered. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:32 - Dec 27 with 2203 views | majorraglan |
| A Brexit Benefit on 18:10 - Dec 27 by KeithHaynes |
And soon you will get a pint of wine soon too, just so the retailers can charge everyone the same price as a 750cl. |
That’s exactly what went through my mind! | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:47 - Dec 27 with 2194 views | onehunglow |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:39 - Dec 27 by builthjack |
What idiots voted to leave the EU?
Most farmers I speak to, and I know hundreds, voted leave. The majority regret it now. |
Cameron's most poisonous legacy was giving us a referendum which he could never believe would result in us leaving
The coward crawled away after damage done
Benefit of leaving?
Zero , and the foreigners still come ! | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 23:41 - Dec 27 with 2173 views | Boundy |
| A Brexit Benefit on 18:37 - Dec 27 by johnlangy |
I agree Cat. It's the way it's always been. But I believe things are about to change.
The internet, and therefore the access to almost anything a person wants to find out about, has only really been around for a relatively short time. Now this generation is so savvy it will not accept the BS that 'they' could get away with in the past.
It could very well happen soon that the Tory party breaks apart into factions, not to mention Labour if they don't make a big success of their first term in office. And if/when that happens the governance of the country will radically change.
As I say, interesting times. |
But for the population to benefit from this potential shouldn't there also be a change in attitude towards work ,many families on low pay have tax credits ( and I don't mean to generalise ) but with that added benefit goes the incentive for one to better oneself ,I know someone who is now a nurse who moans that he hasn't enough time off , the hours are not suited to his life style, or the jobs' boring , he's been in post for just over a year .Or others who are prepared to accept their lot as long as they have enough to buy a car on PCP ( if the income from flogging ganja isnt enough).
We have a Welsh government who have cut back drastically on apprenticeship schemes and some employers using youngsters as cheap labour used, abused and let go. There have been many changes in society in my lifetime and imo work ethic is one of them to the detriment of the country .
Even though I'm now retired I still have a profile on Linkedin and look on Indeed with a view on maybe returning to work part time and just to see what job opportunities there are but at moment for a kids leaving school in Swansea then thers still a lot to be done by government and employers to allow progression into meaningful employment | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 10:46 - Dec 28 with 2087 views | controversial_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:47 - Dec 27 by onehunglow |
Cameron's most poisonous legacy was giving us a referendum which he could never believe would result in us leaving
The coward crawled away after damage done
Benefit of leaving?
Zero , and the foreigners still come ! |
Record levels of immigration too. What's their answer , a dodgy scheme to Rwanda. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 12:33 - Dec 28 with 2044 views | FatJack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:39 - Dec 27 by builthjack |
What idiots voted to leave the EU?
Most farmers I speak to, and I know hundreds, voted leave. The majority regret it now. |
I was one of the idiots that voted to leave, I now wish I hadn't listen to Johnson and his bunch of liars, I know quite a few that would vote remain now, |  | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 12:39 - Dec 28 with 2039 views | SullutaCreturned |
| A Brexit Benefit on 23:41 - Dec 27 by Boundy |
But for the population to benefit from this potential shouldn't there also be a change in attitude towards work ,many families on low pay have tax credits ( and I don't mean to generalise ) but with that added benefit goes the incentive for one to better oneself ,I know someone who is now a nurse who moans that he hasn't enough time off , the hours are not suited to his life style, or the jobs' boring , he's been in post for just over a year .Or others who are prepared to accept their lot as long as they have enough to buy a car on PCP ( if the income from flogging ganja isnt enough).
We have a Welsh government who have cut back drastically on apprenticeship schemes and some employers using youngsters as cheap labour used, abused and let go. There have been many changes in society in my lifetime and imo work ethic is one of them to the detriment of the country .
Even though I'm now retired I still have a profile on Linkedin and look on Indeed with a view on maybe returning to work part time and just to see what job opportunities there are but at moment for a kids leaving school in Swansea then thers still a lot to be done by government and employers to allow progression into meaningful employment |
I don't agree with tax credits, work should pay enough to lve on and the credits just allow companies to pay low wages and take more in profit to pay senior management and board members hgher wages than they deserve.
Top end wages HAVE TO come down, rich people have to share the wealth more and low end wages HAVE TO rise. It's only fair that the people who keep the world moving get enough to live on.
British people have to take jobs, we can't have Uni graduates refusing a job because they think a degree makes them too good for some jobs. We can't have people thinking it's ok to live on benefits and not put anything back into the country.
Things have to change or the country will continue to rot from both ends and one day the rot will meet in the middle and we're all screwed. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 12:40 - Dec 28 with 2034 views | controversial_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 12:39 - Dec 28 by SullutaCreturned |
I don't agree with tax credits, work should pay enough to lve on and the credits just allow companies to pay low wages and take more in profit to pay senior management and board members hgher wages than they deserve.
Top end wages HAVE TO come down, rich people have to share the wealth more and low end wages HAVE TO rise. It's only fair that the people who keep the world moving get enough to live on.
British people have to take jobs, we can't have Uni graduates refusing a job because they think a degree makes them too good for some jobs. We can't have people thinking it's ok to live on benefits and not put anything back into the country.
Things have to change or the country will continue to rot from both ends and one day the rot will meet in the middle and we're all screwed. |
That's capitalism for you | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:05 - Dec 28 with 1949 views | Boundy |
Do you honestly believe that greed is the preserve of capitalism? | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 21:25 - Dec 28 with 1934 views | Kilkennyjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:05 - Dec 28 by Boundy |
Do you honestly believe that greed is the preserve of capitalism? |
Well the Tory model is to attack workers rights so they get back in line. Get on your knees.
And frankly Brexit enables this.
Then allow the so-called entrepreneurs to grab the profits and to point at trickle down economics if challenged. See Lady Mone for profits: and trickle down economics rarely works.
Greed is the starting point and driver in capitalism.
At least the start point for socialism is trying to look after everyone in society.
But i take your point that people are people and checks and balances are essential.
This free port crap worries me.
Nothing good will flow from it. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 21:29 - Dec 28 with 1933 views | Flashberryjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:05 - Dec 28 by Boundy |
Do you honestly believe that greed is the preserve of capitalism? |
Communism is much the same as capitalism, except there are more super rich, and more super poor with communism. |  |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 21:51 - Dec 28 with 1926 views | Gwyn737 |
| A Brexit Benefit on 21:29 - Dec 28 by Flashberryjack |
Communism is much the same as capitalism, except there are more super rich, and more super poor with communism. |
I completely agree with this.
For a society to work it needs to be capitalist but with a socialist safety net. This works well when the economy is doing well but when it’s not, those who love only capitalism want to pull the drawbridge up.
In a civilised society, this ends up costing more in the long run.
There are difficult times ahead, I’m afraid. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 23:19 - Dec 28 with 1901 views | Scotia |
| A Brexit Benefit on 21:51 - Dec 28 by Gwyn737 |
I completely agree with this.
For a society to work it needs to be capitalist but with a socialist safety net. This works well when the economy is doing well but when it’s not, those who love only capitalism want to pull the drawbridge up.
In a civilised society, this ends up costing more in the long run.
There are difficult times ahead, I’m afraid. |
I agree but I'd add that the safety net needs to be set a bit closer to the ground than we've seen in the UK for a long time.
It's too easy and beneficial to be economically inactive in the UK at the moment whereas it should be a last resort.
I know too many people working over full time hours and struggling to make ends meet, but equally know a lot of people (indirectly in some cases) who have more disposable cash than I do purely through benefits.
Honestly the examples make me weep. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 10:37 - Dec 29 with 1858 views | onehunglow |
| A Brexit Benefit on 21:51 - Dec 28 by Gwyn737 |
I completely agree with this.
For a society to work it needs to be capitalist but with a socialist safety net. This works well when the economy is doing well but when it’s not, those who love only capitalism want to pull the drawbridge up.
In a civilised society, this ends up costing more in the long run.
There are difficult times ahead, I’m afraid. |
Gwynn.
There have always been difficult times .
Always crises | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 12:10 - Dec 29 with 1821 views | SullutaCreturned |
| A Brexit Benefit on 10:37 - Dec 29 by onehunglow |
Gwynn.
There have always been difficult times .
Always crises |
Yes and there always will be but poverty today realtive to poverty 150 years ago is a different animal.
Maybe we need to reinstate workhouses and give people a taste of what Victorian Britain was like, see if it encourages them to work! I doubt it would because some people are just entitled, we have entitled rich and powerful and we have entitled people on benefits. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 13:35 - Dec 29 with 1799 views | BarrySwan |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:47 - Dec 27 by onehunglow |
Cameron's most poisonous legacy was giving us a referendum which he could never believe would result in us leaving
The coward crawled away after damage done
Benefit of leaving?
Zero , and the foreigners still come ! |
Absolute and utter nonsense.
The British public gave the British parliament the tools to make our own laws reject those imposed by other European entities such as the EU and make its own policies.
The fact that a largely remaining dominated House of Commons has fought against every attempt by a largely incompetent government to take full advantage of the opportunities and freedom to act given by the British electorate is of course another matter.
The frightening thing is that the thought that a labour government would be any better than the Conservative clowns is too laughable for words.
Just look at the state of Wales under Labour and have the cheek to suggest that they're any better than the Conservative incompetents. | | | |
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