| A Brexit Benefit 18:02 - Dec 27 with 4164 views | johnlangy |
I voted remain in the Brexit referendum but this to me appears to be an example of an enormous potential benefit to the UK of leaving the EU which I hadn’t thought of. Or rather an enormous potential benefit to working people in the UK of leaving the EU.
For the last fifty years or so businesses and governments have benefited enormously from access to cheap labour from the EU, mainly Eastern Europeans. Businesses didn’t have to bother particularly about recruitment and retention and training of UK workers because they could take the easy option of bringing in people who were already trained and who would work for less. Which means those businesses were more profitable.
Governments have taken the same attitude. Why spend a fortune training doctors for example when we can get them from other countries. Those countries will have borne the cost of the training and the UK could easily pay them more than their home countries. Everyone’s a winner.
Everyone except of course the other poorer countries who then had to spend more to train more doctors to replace the ones we’d stolen. Everyone also except the British people who may have wanted to train as doctors but found there were no training places for them. The government would have argued that because they were able to cut back on training places for our own doctors (because we’d imported foreign ones) that meant that there was more money available to spend elsewhere.
The problem is that eventually these things come back to bite you on the bum. And the problem has become so much worse over the last thirteen years. About a year ago a Health Trust in Cumbria asked for permission to train an extra thirty doctors that they desperately needed. The answer they got back from the NHS was that if they allowed them to do that they (the NHS) would have to cut thirty places elsewhere in the system. Because the government had cut back on investment in doctor training. This in the middle of a crisis in the numbers of doctors within the NHS.
Similar points could be made for nurses and care workers. Plus so many other groups. Remember two years ago when we didn’t have enough HGV drivers ? Again why train our own when we can take them from other countries.
Now we’ve got the strange situation of the government allowing three times as many immigrants into the country as compared with before Brexit in order to fill the gaps. You might ask what was the point of Brexit. And the answer might be that we’ve taken back control of our borders. The government is in control of who comes in which is what brexiteers wanted. Except people don’t want 750,000 immigrants coming in each year even when the government is in control.
So what’s going to happen ? What if we do really ‘take back control’ and the number of immigrants is cut drastically. Who is going to do the jobs that are left ? British people presumably. Except they’ll say no thank you. They’ll say why should I take a job in a care home, for example, at a low wage. Why should I take a job where I don’t get paid enough to live on, where I have to claim benefits just to get by.
And they’d be right to say no. It’s just a couple of years since people working in care homes were lauded as heroes. They were doing a crucial job in looking after the elderly. And many of them died doing that job because of the criminal decisions taken by the government. If it is a crucial job why doesn’t it pay more ?
And what about other jobs also shown to be crucial during Covid – binmen, supermarket workers, delivery drivers and so on. They are all basic jobs you might say but vitally important when it comes to the whole system working.
So, let’s say we stop most immigration. If businesses want to employ people they will have to actually train British workers to do all these jobs. And pay them a decent wage for doing them. And even if a lot of training is not needed for some jobs it’s been shown that those ‘basic’ jobs are so important in a decent society. So they also will have to be paid a decent, proper living wage.
Which all means that finally all British workers could start being paid a decent wage for their efforts. And in the sixth biggest economy in the world you would imagine that that is exactly as it should be.
Pie in the sky a lot of people will say. Maybe. But it appears that a large majority of British people don’t want mass immigration. So if that immigration is cut to the bone it’s either pay British workers a decent wage to do the jobs or the jobs don’t get done.
And the result of all those ‘crucial’ jobs not being done ? Ever bigger NHS waiting lists, less care home beds available etc etc,
We are in for some very interesting times. |  | | |  |
| A Brexit Benefit on 14:19 - Dec 29 with 908 views | onehunglow |
| A Brexit Benefit on 13:35 - Dec 29 by BarrySwan |
Absolute and utter nonsense.
The British public gave the British parliament the tools to make our own laws reject those imposed by other European entities such as the EU and make its own policies.
The fact that a largely remaining dominated House of Commons has fought against every attempt by a largely incompetent government to take full advantage of the opportunities and freedom to act given by the British electorate is of course another matter.
The frightening thing is that the thought that a labour government would be any better than the Conservative clowns is too laughable for words.
Just look at the state of Wales under Labour and have the cheek to suggest that they're any better than the Conservative incompetents. |
No ,it’s your viewpoint,no more no less.
As a UKIp man ,I fully understand your post but I see matters in a different light.
Nobody is 100% right,including you .
Nobody is 100% wrong.
One can be in a minority of one and still be right .
As regards the topic,I stand by every word.
What benefits | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 15:44 - Dec 29 with 881 views | Flashberryjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 13:35 - Dec 29 by BarrySwan |
Absolute and utter nonsense.
The British public gave the British parliament the tools to make our own laws reject those imposed by other European entities such as the EU and make its own policies.
The fact that a largely remaining dominated House of Commons has fought against every attempt by a largely incompetent government to take full advantage of the opportunities and freedom to act given by the British electorate is of course another matter.
The frightening thing is that the thought that a labour government would be any better than the Conservative clowns is too laughable for words.
Just look at the state of Wales under Labour and have the cheek to suggest that they're any better than the Conservative incompetents. |
Well said  |  |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 17:22 - Dec 29 with 864 views | onehunglow |
Thought my comments were well said too.
It’s just you didn’t agree
Xx | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 19:06 - Dec 29 with 841 views | Flashberryjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 17:22 - Dec 29 by onehunglow |
Thought my comments were well said too.
It’s just you didn’t agree
Xx |
Well worked out, once a copper, always a copper, you never lose it eh !!
xxx | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 19:16 - Dec 29 with 833 views | Gwyn737 |
| A Brexit Benefit on 13:35 - Dec 29 by BarrySwan |
Absolute and utter nonsense.
The British public gave the British parliament the tools to make our own laws reject those imposed by other European entities such as the EU and make its own policies.
The fact that a largely remaining dominated House of Commons has fought against every attempt by a largely incompetent government to take full advantage of the opportunities and freedom to act given by the British electorate is of course another matter.
The frightening thing is that the thought that a labour government would be any better than the Conservative clowns is too laughable for words.
Just look at the state of Wales under Labour and have the cheek to suggest that they're any better than the Conservative incompetents. |
The middle paragraph was true on the day of the referendum - then they all ran away and left to the leavers to sort out.
After May went, Johnson had a massive majority AND a cabinet full of Brexiteers to sort it out.
Whether they made a huge mess of it or whether the mess was inevitable, we’ll never really know. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:26 - Dec 29 with 815 views | majorraglan |
| A Brexit Benefit on 13:35 - Dec 29 by BarrySwan |
Absolute and utter nonsense.
The British public gave the British parliament the tools to make our own laws reject those imposed by other European entities such as the EU and make its own policies.
The fact that a largely remaining dominated House of Commons has fought against every attempt by a largely incompetent government to take full advantage of the opportunities and freedom to act given by the British electorate is of course another matter.
The frightening thing is that the thought that a labour government would be any better than the Conservative clowns is too laughable for words.
Just look at the state of Wales under Labour and have the cheek to suggest that they're any better than the Conservative incompetents. |
Absolute and utter nonsense.
It’s been an absolute shambles and I say that as a Leave voter. As part of its preparation for the 2019 GE Boris an£ the Conservatives rooted out many of the Conservative “remainers” and replaced them with pro Brexit candidates - check it out. Boris and his successors have had huge majority’s and have failed to deliver.
The government have talked about divergence of standards etc, freedoms etc but in reality if our businesses diverge from EU standards they won’t be able to trade in the EU. Read the below article, 1 branch of government has stated we’ll continue to recognise the European CE mark, but another department has insisted we won’t and now require manufacturers to test products at a cost of up to £35k per product. The standards are the same. If the companies only do one test, they’ll not be able to access the other market. It’s the same with food - if we allow hormone treated meat to enter the food chain our businesses won’t be allowed to access the EU market.
Wha5 we’ve ended up with is a disaster.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/dec/29/were-out-of-step-how-post-brexi | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 11:08 - Dec 30 with 757 views | felixstowe_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:39 - Dec 27 by builthjack |
What idiots voted to leave the EU?
Most farmers I speak to, and I know hundreds, voted leave. The majority regret it now. |
What idiots voted to remain in the undemocratic EU. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 11:10 - Dec 30 with 757 views | felixstowe_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 19:46 - Dec 27 by Kilkennyjack |
This logic is spot on - and you end up with indy or devo max for Wales.
The under 40s dont give a rip about the BBC nor the Daily Fail.
The worry about another Johnson yoon govt has led me to indy. |
The remainers believed all the lies 3 million extra unemployed, the pound crashing yet some remainers wanted to leave a democratic UK and join rejoin the undemocratic EU | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 11:34 - Dec 30 with 744 views | BarrySwan |
| A Brexit Benefit on 20:26 - Dec 29 by majorraglan |
Absolute and utter nonsense.
It’s been an absolute shambles and I say that as a Leave voter. As part of its preparation for the 2019 GE Boris an£ the Conservatives rooted out many of the Conservative “remainers” and replaced them with pro Brexit candidates - check it out. Boris and his successors have had huge majority’s and have failed to deliver.
The government have talked about divergence of standards etc, freedoms etc but in reality if our businesses diverge from EU standards they won’t be able to trade in the EU. Read the below article, 1 branch of government has stated we’ll continue to recognise the European CE mark, but another department has insisted we won’t and now require manufacturers to test products at a cost of up to £35k per product. The standards are the same. If the companies only do one test, they’ll not be able to access the other market. It’s the same with food - if we allow hormone treated meat to enter the food chain our businesses won’t be allowed to access the EU market.
Wha5 we’ve ended up with is a disaster.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/dec/29/were-out-of-step-how-post-brexi |
I see, so all the trade dealings really successful countries around the world who seem to manage their exports and imports with EU countries quite happily and are not in the EU are disasters as well then?
As I mentioned earlier, in my opinion the incompetent fools that are commonly described as the Conservative government are a complete and utter shambles.
That isn't the fault of those who voted Brexit as the country seems to be falling to pieces in all directions from previous EU and non EU related areas of control........ from law and order to education, health service, local authorities, national debt, housing immigration etc etc etc.
These are matters that both recent Conservative and labour governments have proved to be hopelessly out of their depth in administering.
The shambles that is the Northern Ireland situation indicates just what a mess the Conservative government is. The very thought that they have allowed the EU to have any say in how NI runs or trades is just ludicrous.
Just one perfect example of the tools handed to the British government free of EU control is the recent announcement of the UK's banning of live animal exports ( whatever anyones thoughts on the subject are) something that they seemed unable to do so as an EU member.
Voters can only give those in power the tools to work with not the competence to do so. [Post edited 30 Dec 2023 12:04]
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| A Brexit Benefit on 12:48 - Dec 30 with 711 views | controversial_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 11:10 - Dec 30 by felixstowe_jack |
The remainers believed all the lies 3 million extra unemployed, the pound crashing yet some remainers wanted to leave a democratic UK and join rejoin the undemocratic EU |
So, what have been the benefits of leaving? | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:11 - Dec 30 with 685 views | majorraglan |
| A Brexit Benefit on 11:34 - Dec 30 by BarrySwan |
I see, so all the trade dealings really successful countries around the world who seem to manage their exports and imports with EU countries quite happily and are not in the EU are disasters as well then?
As I mentioned earlier, in my opinion the incompetent fools that are commonly described as the Conservative government are a complete and utter shambles.
That isn't the fault of those who voted Brexit as the country seems to be falling to pieces in all directions from previous EU and non EU related areas of control........ from law and order to education, health service, local authorities, national debt, housing immigration etc etc etc.
These are matters that both recent Conservative and labour governments have proved to be hopelessly out of their depth in administering.
The shambles that is the Northern Ireland situation indicates just what a mess the Conservative government is. The very thought that they have allowed the EU to have any say in how NI runs or trades is just ludicrous.
Just one perfect example of the tools handed to the British government free of EU control is the recent announcement of the UK's banning of live animal exports ( whatever anyones thoughts on the subject are) something that they seemed unable to do so as an EU member.
Voters can only give those in power the tools to work with not the competence to do so. [Post edited 30 Dec 2023 12:04]
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In terms of the trade dealings countries who export to the EU have to comply with their standards and requirements.
We have a situation where in many cases our government is introducing new U.K. standards which are identical to the EU standards. We have a situation developing where some departments accept and allowing UK companies to continue using the previous EU certifications so they can trade here and in the EU, however Michael Gove’s department are insisting U.K. companies complete a U.K. test which is identical to the existing EU standards. The tests for the construction company in the article are going to cost £35k per test just for the U.K. market and about £400k in total, it’s duplication because they’ve already met the standards required as part of the previous tests they completed to be able to sell in EU. The question is why are some departments rolling over tests and standards and others aren’t - it’s madness.
In terms of Northern Ireland, given the previous sensitivities around the troubles, the GFA and legal issues arising from that the Government have very little room to manoeuvre. Also factor in most of NI voted to remain in the EU. The only way things can work without a hard border on the island is to have a trade border in the Irish Sea which nobody wanted, so we end up with what we have now. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:18 - Dec 30 with 674 views | SullutaCreturned |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:11 - Dec 30 by majorraglan |
In terms of the trade dealings countries who export to the EU have to comply with their standards and requirements.
We have a situation where in many cases our government is introducing new U.K. standards which are identical to the EU standards. We have a situation developing where some departments accept and allowing UK companies to continue using the previous EU certifications so they can trade here and in the EU, however Michael Gove’s department are insisting U.K. companies complete a U.K. test which is identical to the existing EU standards. The tests for the construction company in the article are going to cost £35k per test just for the U.K. market and about £400k in total, it’s duplication because they’ve already met the standards required as part of the previous tests they completed to be able to sell in EU. The question is why are some departments rolling over tests and standards and others aren’t - it’s madness.
In terms of Northern Ireland, given the previous sensitivities around the troubles, the GFA and legal issues arising from that the Government have very little room to manoeuvre. Also factor in most of NI voted to remain in the EU. The only way things can work without a hard border on the island is to have a trade border in the Irish Sea which nobody wanted, so we end up with what we have now. |
I agree with what you say but it really is an example of political incompetence. it didn't mean that Brexit was a guaranteed disaster, the disaster has been delivered by god awful politicians in a god awful government.
The duplication of tests is, as you say, a totally stupid idea and an unnecessary expense for businesses. That it happens is down to an incompetent politician not because Brexit meant it had to happen. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:24 - Dec 30 with 673 views | Dr_Winston |
The single biggest problem with Brexit is that the initial stages of it were negotiated by a British Government who didn't want it.
Both May and Hammond were staunch remainers. The senior Civil Service were staunch remainers. We entered negotiations as supplicants rather than insistents, and got exactly what we deserved as a result. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 12:01 - Dec 31 with 612 views | SullutaCreturned |
| A Brexit Benefit on 19:16 - Dec 29 by Gwyn737 |
The middle paragraph was true on the day of the referendum - then they all ran away and left to the leavers to sort out.
After May went, Johnson had a massive majority AND a cabinet full of Brexiteers to sort it out.
Whether they made a huge mess of it or whether the mess was inevitable, we’ll never really know. |
Sorry but that's not entirely true. The Houses of commons was still loaded ith remainers who fought against Brexit all they could. We also had Bercow who did everything he could to thwart proceedings, even breaking rules, doing things the speaker shouldn't do. Bercow is an odious little creep, a slimy looking person who is yet another stain on UK politics.
Bojo got rid of anyone who disagreed with him in the cabinet but he couldn't sack all the MP's who disagreed with Brexit.
The government made a huge mess of it. It started with May who was so wishy washy a good gust of wind would have blown her over. Then we got lumbered with Bojo, the king of bat faeces crazy who made a mess of all he touched. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 14:51 - Dec 31 with 591 views | Gwyn737 |
| A Brexit Benefit on 12:01 - Dec 31 by SullutaCreturned |
Sorry but that's not entirely true. The Houses of commons was still loaded ith remainers who fought against Brexit all they could. We also had Bercow who did everything he could to thwart proceedings, even breaking rules, doing things the speaker shouldn't do. Bercow is an odious little creep, a slimy looking person who is yet another stain on UK politics.
Bojo got rid of anyone who disagreed with him in the cabinet but he couldn't sack all the MP's who disagreed with Brexit.
The government made a huge mess of it. It started with May who was so wishy washy a good gust of wind would have blown her over. Then we got lumbered with Bojo, the king of bat faeces crazy who made a mess of all he touched. |
Didn’t 20 odd conservative detractors loose the whip over not being supportive enough?
I remember bits of it as Amber Rudd was my MP at the time and she resigned in protest.
As I mention earlier, two points of view are now prevalent. Leavers say it’s rubbish because our MPs cocked it up. Remainers say it was all inevitable as what we were promised was pie in the sky.
It’s not a hot topic for me anymore as the direction of travel looks pretty nailed on. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 15:54 - Dec 31 with 576 views | builthjack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 11:10 - Dec 30 by felixstowe_jack |
The remainers believed all the lies 3 million extra unemployed, the pound crashing yet some remainers wanted to leave a democratic UK and join rejoin the undemocratic EU |
How come this country has gone downhill ever since, and is getting worse?
I bet you read the Mail and watch Sky news. Guaranteed. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| A Brexit Benefit on 17:28 - Dec 31 with 561 views | onehunglow |
| A Brexit Benefit on 15:54 - Dec 31 by builthjack |
How come this country has gone downhill ever since, and is getting worse?
I bet you read the Mail and watch Sky news. Guaranteed. |
We’ve had a betting thread
I did warn you all about betting
I do not know Felix nor what he reads
Same with you.
Never ASSume | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 17:38 - Dec 31 with 558 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| A Brexit Benefit on 22:24 - Dec 30 by Dr_Winston |
The single biggest problem with Brexit is that the initial stages of it were negotiated by a British Government who didn't want it.
Both May and Hammond were staunch remainers. The senior Civil Service were staunch remainers. We entered negotiations as supplicants rather than insistents, and got exactly what we deserved as a result. |
It wasn’t just May and Hammond. Clarkson was against it too. |  |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 17:51 - Dec 31 with 553 views | SullutaCreturned |
| A Brexit Benefit on 14:51 - Dec 31 by Gwyn737 |
Didn’t 20 odd conservative detractors loose the whip over not being supportive enough?
I remember bits of it as Amber Rudd was my MP at the time and she resigned in protest.
As I mention earlier, two points of view are now prevalent. Leavers say it’s rubbish because our MPs cocked it up. Remainers say it was all inevitable as what we were promised was pie in the sky.
It’s not a hot topic for me anymore as the direction of travel looks pretty nailed on. |
The direction of travel can still be changed but we need better politicians.
Those tory MP's who lost the whip, they were still sitting MP's who still had their vote.
To me the government cocked it up AND Bojo promised us things he never should have but we can still find a success through this, we have to because we have no choice. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 18:07 - Dec 31 with 550 views | Gwyn737 |
| A Brexit Benefit on 17:51 - Dec 31 by SullutaCreturned |
The direction of travel can still be changed but we need better politicians.
Those tory MP's who lost the whip, they were still sitting MP's who still had their vote.
To me the government cocked it up AND Bojo promised us things he never should have but we can still find a success through this, we have to because we have no choice. |
I really hope so, Cat.
I take no pleasure in what’s transpired.
I just see lots of problems that are still popping up. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 18:10 - Dec 31 with 546 views | SullutaCreturned |
| A Brexit Benefit on 18:07 - Dec 31 by Gwyn737 |
I really hope so, Cat.
I take no pleasure in what’s transpired.
I just see lots of problems that are still popping up. |
Well it was never going to have instant good results bt Nojo with his oven ready nonsense gave people a false impression.
I hope, though I have little faith, that Starmer and labour are in Downing street next year and they build a new relationship with the EU. I honestly think Von der Leyen is open to it as the EU has had a rough time too and a mutually beneficial deal should be what we all want. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 13:17 - Jan 1 with 492 views | felixstowe_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 15:54 - Dec 31 by builthjack |
How come this country has gone downhill ever since, and is getting worse?
I bet you read the Mail and watch Sky news. Guaranteed. |
Don't have Sky and have never had it. Occasionally read Western Mail online but it seems very left wing and fully supports whatever mess Drakeford's labour gets Wales into.
I agree with you Wales has gone downhill since devolution.
The UK is struggling like the rest of the EU since covoid and the global supply crisis plus the Russian invasion of Ukraine which led to Global inflation due to high oil and gas prices.
Very little if any is due to Brexit as Germany has suffered the most while the £ continues to increase in value against both the $ and the €.
2024 will see inflation fall, oil and gas prices stabilise while electricity and gas are predicted to fall. People who work will be better off due to NI cuts from today. Wages are also growing faster than inflation.
Try looking on the bright side for a change. | |
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| A Brexit Benefit on 18:13 - Jan 1 with 459 views | SullutaCreturned |
| A Brexit Benefit on 15:54 - Dec 31 by builthjack |
How come this country has gone downhill ever since, and is getting worse?
I bet you read the Mail and watch Sky news. Guaranteed. |
In which case maybe you should take your own advice? Remember what you said about people moaning?
Or is it only moaning about the Senedd that's not allowed?
People always ignore other global events that have affected many countries worldwide when it suits them. Yes Brexit also had an effect but t is far from all that has made things worse.
Having a totally shite government hasnt helped the UK, or Wales. | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 09:23 - Jan 2 with 412 views | controversial_jack |
| A Brexit Benefit on 13:17 - Jan 1 by felixstowe_jack |
Don't have Sky and have never had it. Occasionally read Western Mail online but it seems very left wing and fully supports whatever mess Drakeford's labour gets Wales into.
I agree with you Wales has gone downhill since devolution.
The UK is struggling like the rest of the EU since covoid and the global supply crisis plus the Russian invasion of Ukraine which led to Global inflation due to high oil and gas prices.
Very little if any is due to Brexit as Germany has suffered the most while the £ continues to increase in value against both the $ and the €.
2024 will see inflation fall, oil and gas prices stabilise while electricity and gas are predicted to fall. People who work will be better off due to NI cuts from today. Wages are also growing faster than inflation.
Try looking on the bright side for a change. |
We will have a recession, and it's doubtful if oil and gas prices will remain stable, because of the trouble in the middle east | | | |
| A Brexit Benefit on 11:07 - Jan 2 with 390 views | Kilkennyjack |
You cant bullshite reality …. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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