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I know many of you are delighted by the turn of events but I'm not feeling anymore patriotic/Nationalistic.
I feel more European since the vote, I feel some regret that I didn't campaign. I don't like the way this Country is going, it's becoming insular, nasty and vindictive.
We are moving more and more to the hard right. I happen to love Europe, the culture, the lifestyle, the beautiful women etc etc. I don't want this Britain that we seem to be moving towards, before you say yes I am considering moving abroad.
I know many others who are thinking the same.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
6
Post Brexit Britain on 15:23 - Feb 11 with 1509 views
For possibly the only time ever, I agree totally (except the part about moving abroad). I hate the level of discourse in this country, I hate the fact that both main parties are now in the firm grip of extremes of left and right. I hate that anti-EU sentiment has been allowed to legitimise overt and ugly nationalistic tendencies. I hate the fact that the far right has been legitimised and has become the mainstream.
You'll still be European. We aren't going to drift off into the Atlantic, it'll still be there. It's just the end of a political union that nobody has ever really liked or wanted.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
You'll still be European. We aren't going to drift off into the Atlantic, it'll still be there. It's just the end of a political union that nobody has ever really liked or wanted.
The EU is fundamentally about bringing the Nations of Europe together to pull down Walls and move towards a World where we can cooperate. I believe in this, I don't believe in this Notion we're stronger for leaving, I think a strong Europe is important for the greater good.
Our vote has set off a chain of events which has led to Trump, possibly Le Pen and Wilders in the Netherlands, damaged Nato and strengthened Putin.
I think we'll look back with some serious regret, similar to Iraq. This speech by Ken Clarke is how I feel:
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
2
Post Brexit Britain on 15:31 - Feb 11 with 1479 views
I would like to add I don't mean to call into question all those that voted for it, I know many did with good values. I just feel their analysis is incorrect and they won over the mob.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
1
Post Brexit Britain on 15:35 - Feb 11 with 1468 views
I would like to add I don't mean to call into question all those that voted for it, I know many did with good values. I just feel their analysis is incorrect and they won over the mob.
This is part of the problem. If you express dissatisfaction with Brexit and the general direction the country is moving in you'll be variously accused of calling all leave voters racist thickies or of being a "remoaner". "The people have spoken, accept it you bad loser remoaners". It's pathetic.
This is part of the problem. If you express dissatisfaction with Brexit and the general direction the country is moving in you'll be variously accused of calling all leave voters racist thickies or of being a "remoaner". "The people have spoken, accept it you bad loser remoaners". It's pathetic.
It's the rhetoric of the bully, of insecurity if they were truly confident in their position they would be able to take criticism.
The truth is many who voted for it are fearful, but they won't admit it. As I said Iraq springs to mind, most of the population was for the invasion at the time. The mob are fickle.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
1
Post Brexit Britain on 15:50 - Feb 11 with 1432 views
It's the rhetoric of the bully, of insecurity if they were truly confident in their position they would be able to take criticism.
The truth is many who voted for it are fearful, but they won't admit it. As I said Iraq springs to mind, most of the population was for the invasion at the time. The mob are fickle.
Is it the rhetoric of the bully and does it show insecurity when one refers to a group of people with an alternative opinion as "the mob"?
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
It's the rhetoric of the bully, of insecurity if they were truly confident in their position they would be able to take criticism.
The truth is many who voted for it are fearful, but they won't admit it. As I said Iraq springs to mind, most of the population was for the invasion at the time. The mob are fickle.
Iraq's a good example. A huge majority were in favour and those of us who were against the obvious folly and said so were shouted down. Now everyone claims they knew it was a fool's errand all along. If Brexit does go badly (and at this stage none of us has a clue how or even if it will go) all the triumphant brexiteers will be claiming that they were remain voters all along.
Is it the rhetoric of the bully and does it show insecurity when one refers to a group of people with an alternative opinion as "the mob"?
As I've already alluded to there is an element within the brexit vote that has sound reasons for doing so but they have unleashed a strong army of vociferous bullies who are shutting down debate. It's the tactics of the extremes go back Centuries and it works.
As ECB said there is a real hostility to debate on the future direction of the Country at the moment and people are being silenced - when Farage lists MP's who have voted against Brexit he knows exactly what he's doing.
I find it perplexing that 16+million people are basically being shunned from the debate on the future direction of the Country on a binary choice that held in a different year would no doubt have produced a different result. Bare in mind this took place post Merkel opening the floodgates to Syrian refugees.
This is the most import Post War decision we've taken and we're being silenced I find that troubling.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
2
Post Brexit Britain on 15:59 - Feb 11 with 1397 views
Post Brexit Britain on 15:59 - Feb 11 by skippyjack
Rockin & ECB PSs brain's trust.. comparing an invasion of a Nation with EU membership.
Have you both seriously considered seeing someone?.. come on for f*ck sake.
We're not comparing, Skipmeister. We're talking about the fickle nature of public opinion on matters of huge national importance, often with the benefit of hindsight. Although if you want to compare, I'd suggest that leaving the EU is a far more monumental decision for the UK than the one to invade Iraq for no apparent reason.
The tory right have never had it so good, that is true.
Moderates of which believe it or not is the majority of the tory party are being silenced into submission.
Labour voting areas have voted for something they apparently despise, extreme economic liberalism, less public spending, less regulation, less rights etc.
I'm on the centre right and I find that is a troubling turn of events, I may provoke for debate on here but I genuinely believe in well funded public services, strong defence, international cooperation etc.
I honestly can't believe what's going on at the moment, maybe I'm wrong - but I believe in several years time people will look back and think sh1t that wasn't bad, was it?
The problem is the press only ever talk about the negatives of the EU of which there are many but there are a Hell of a lot of positives to membership and these things will vanish into the dust. It's not going to happen in 5 mins but it will happen.
I predict in 10-15 years we'll be doing a Ted Heath again and we'll be blocked from going back unless we agree with everything. We've shot ourselves in the foot.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
0
Post Brexit Britain on 16:15 - Feb 11 with 1357 views
As I've already alluded to there is an element within the brexit vote that has sound reasons for doing so but they have unleashed a strong army of vociferous bullies who are shutting down debate. It's the tactics of the extremes go back Centuries and it works.
As ECB said there is a real hostility to debate on the future direction of the Country at the moment and people are being silenced - when Farage lists MP's who have voted against Brexit he knows exactly what he's doing.
I find it perplexing that 16+million people are basically being shunned from the debate on the future direction of the Country on a binary choice that held in a different year would no doubt have produced a different result. Bare in mind this took place post Merkel opening the floodgates to Syrian refugees.
This is the most import Post War decision we've taken and we're being silenced I find that troubling.
Rockin.. Armies of people are in the streets campaigning against a DEMOCRATIC vote.
Around a million radicals within the UK being totalitarian rebels.
Politicians genuinely being Nazi.
I know you've been 'brainwashed' with this 'invincibility syndrome'..
But these 'views' have no place in a country that fought to eradicate such indoctrinated insular motives.
I don't think you understand.. you've got to accept a democratic vote.. or be heavily monitored by security..
If you actually want to honour the dead who sacrificed their livelihoods.. you've got to accept the vote.
The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds.
The tory right have never had it so good, that is true.
Moderates of which believe it or not is the majority of the tory party are being silenced into submission.
Labour voting areas have voted for something they apparently despise, extreme economic liberalism, less public spending, less regulation, less rights etc.
I'm on the centre right and I find that is a troubling turn of events, I may provoke for debate on here but I genuinely believe in well funded public services, strong defence, international cooperation etc.
I honestly can't believe what's going on at the moment, maybe I'm wrong - but I believe in several years time people will look back and think sh1t that wasn't bad, was it?
The problem is the press only ever talk about the negatives of the EU of which there are many but there are a Hell of a lot of positives to membership and these things will vanish into the dust. It's not going to happen in 5 mins but it will happen.
I predict in 10-15 years we'll be doing a Ted Heath again and we'll be blocked from going back unless we agree with everything. We've shot ourselves in the foot.
I honestly believe that the remain campaign would have stood a lot better chance if they had focused on the good things that the EU does for us rather than the ludicrous doomsday predictions they decided to peddle. The problem they had however was that they realised you can write the benefits of the EU on the back of a postage stamp.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Post Brexit Britain on 16:15 - Feb 11 by skippyjack
Rockin.. Armies of people are in the streets campaigning against a DEMOCRATIC vote.
Around a million radicals within the UK being totalitarian rebels.
Politicians genuinely being Nazi.
I know you've been 'brainwashed' with this 'invincibility syndrome'..
But these 'views' have no place in a country that fought to eradicate such indoctrinated insular motives.
I don't think you understand.. you've got to accept a democratic vote.. or be heavily monitored by security..
If you actually want to honour the dead who sacrificed their livelihoods.. you've got to accept the vote.
You have to accept the vote but that doesn't mean you can't oppose it.
The solution would be for the 16 million people who care so much about the EU would be to hold their noses and vote for the Liberal Democrats in the next General Election, as they are the only national party openly trying to block Brexit.
[Post edited 11 Feb 2017 16:22]
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
We're not comparing, Skipmeister. We're talking about the fickle nature of public opinion on matters of huge national importance, often with the benefit of hindsight. Although if you want to compare, I'd suggest that leaving the EU is a far more monumental decision for the UK than the one to invade Iraq for no apparent reason.
Re-read it.. you are.. you definitely are..
I'm not really sure ECB.. the EU delay funds and prop up worldwide debt.. and everytime the economic debt has increased.. a WAR has erupted to finance such things for the Elites.
We're feeding a machine that is preparing for war.
The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds.
I honestly believe that the remain campaign would have stood a lot better chance if they had focused on the good things that the EU does for us rather than the ludicrous doomsday predictions they decided to peddle. The problem they had however was that they realised you can write the benefits of the EU on the back of a postage stamp.
Absolute nonsense and they did talk about the benefits, the problem is the news cycle and the need for soundbites.
That's why there's so much anger over the NHS bus thing because it was a clear retail offer like a general election. That was frankly disgusting.
Without Boris and Jeremy Corbyn, there is no way the brexit side would have won.
Brexit had the soundbites, they knew this it boiled down to:
'take back control' 'control our borders' 'take back control' 'britain back british' '350m for NHS'' 'take back control' ummm 'let's take back control'
It was so unbelievably simplistic, but that was the tactic and it worked.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
0
Post Brexit Britain on 16:32 - Feb 11 with 1320 views
You have to accept the vote but that doesn't mean you can't oppose it.
The solution would be for the 16 million people who care so much about the EU would be to hold their noses and vote for the Liberal Democrats in the next General Election, as they are the only national party openly trying to block Brexit.
[Post edited 11 Feb 2017 16:22]
I will be voting for them, even though there's more steel in a ball of fluff.
It doesn't matter though I think Theresa will get 45%+
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
0
Post Brexit Britain on 16:35 - Feb 11 with 1310 views
It's the rhetoric of the bully, of insecurity if they were truly confident in their position they would be able to take criticism.
The truth is many who voted for it are fearful, but they won't admit it. As I said Iraq springs to mind, most of the population was for the invasion at the time. The mob are fickle.
So how do you know many are "fearful"? Are you projecting what you think?
I would like to add I don't mean to call into question all those that voted for it, I know many did with good values. I just feel their analysis is incorrect and they won over the mob.
As of course opposed to the mob who voted remain.
May I wish you well in your new life in mainland Europe ( if of course your choice of country decides that it needs your skill set or other attributes)
Please rest assured that those of us left behind will continue to work hard, pay our taxes and sustain the country that you will have left if you ever have need to return for health treatment or any other reason.
Thank you for your previous contribution to this country.
2
Post Brexit Britain on 16:39 - Feb 11 with 1304 views
Absolute nonsense and they did talk about the benefits, the problem is the news cycle and the need for soundbites.
That's why there's so much anger over the NHS bus thing because it was a clear retail offer like a general election. That was frankly disgusting.
Without Boris and Jeremy Corbyn, there is no way the brexit side would have won.
Brexit had the soundbites, they knew this it boiled down to:
'take back control' 'control our borders' 'take back control' 'britain back british' '350m for NHS'' 'take back control' ummm 'let's take back control'
It was so unbelievably simplistic, but that was the tactic and it worked.
"Clear retail offer" - fact? Which political party made that pledge - was it none of them?
Boris, yes but do you seriously claim Brexit won because of Corbyn? That his inactivity campaigning to remain cost them the vote? That's more bizarre than anything I've ever posted...
Remains tactic was the message that the economic world would implode upon a Leave vote win. Remember Gideon's "emergency budget" claim?
Remains tactic was unbelievably simplistic, but that was the tactic and it failed.
You have to accept the vote but that doesn't mean you can't oppose it.
The solution would be for the 16 million people who care so much about the EU would be to hold their noses and vote for the Liberal Democrats in the next General Election, as they are the only national party openly trying to block Brexit.
[Post edited 11 Feb 2017 16:22]
The majority wanted change, fed up being screwed. Nobody knows what post Brexit will bring, but lets give it chance and don't listen to so called experts and think tanks.
Even when you know, you never know?
-1
Post Brexit Britain on 16:40 - Feb 11 with 1290 views
Post Brexit Britain on 16:39 - Feb 11 by blueytheblue
"Clear retail offer" - fact? Which political party made that pledge - was it none of them?
Boris, yes but do you seriously claim Brexit won because of Corbyn? That his inactivity campaigning to remain cost them the vote? That's more bizarre than anything I've ever posted...
Remains tactic was the message that the economic world would implode upon a Leave vote win. Remember Gideon's "emergency budget" claim?
Remains tactic was unbelievably simplistic, but that was the tactic and it failed.
Their tactic was a tried and tested one. People usually vote with their wallets, so an economic doomsday scenario is a powerful tool.
The problem was that Project Fear kept telling us that if we voted leave then we would have to face austerity, job insecurity, cuts to public services when we've been facing that for the last 10+ years anyway so it fell on deaf ears.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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