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I wanted to understand what people see as the basic merits of each approach?
I know it was touched upon on another thread but I don't want to keep propping up a thread entitled "Monk - Coward" or similar.
I see pressing as superior for two reasons. This is the approach I least preferred to play against and the approach which is most effective when used against us.
An example would be the Palace 1-1 last season. Coasting the first half then they changed tactics and we didn't have an answer.
Also another example would be the difference between when West Brom came down here in that perfect 3-1 game and then when Lambert's Norwich used to cone down here, show us zero respect, give us no time to breathe and reap the rewards. I don't think it was just our own endeavours why those games turned out so differently. West Brom stood off us to I assume keep shape and Norwich pressed us.
The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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Pressing v Keeping Shape on 17:56 - Jan 18 with 2676 views
Pressing v Keeping Shape on 17:56 - Jan 18 by C_jack
You can (and some of the best do) combine the both, effectively.
Exactly. Saw a brilliant demo of Bayern. They have the greyhound who presses straight and as soon as the hound has a sniff the 'pack' hunt to win it back. If the pacxk don't get a sniff, they don't bother.
The problem with "pressing", which I firmly believe is the best way to play any team is that you need a core of good, very Fit, very fast and preferably young players. They not only need to be quick enought to get to the player with the ball to close them down, or to intercept the passes, but they also need the stamina to last about 70 minutes before being replaced by like forl ike players. Do you think that the current Swansea Squad fit that description?
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Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:11 - Jan 18 with 2633 views
Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:04 - Jan 18 by waynekerr55
Exactly. Saw a brilliant demo of Bayern. They have the greyhound who presses straight and as soon as the hound has a sniff the 'pack' hunt to win it back. If the pacxk don't get a sniff, they don't bother.
Barcelona the most classic example. Their awesome possession stats aren't built on their passes, it's built on their reaction once they lose it.
Yeah I suppose there's always time to mix it but most I'd imagine who be more one or the other.
Less point pressing long-ball merchants in their own half than possession-based teams. And I can't imagine many would have given a team like Chelsea so much time whilst attacking near the penalty area.
The pressing approach was for me why we had such a good record under Rogers against the big teams at home. And why Laudrup's was less so.
The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:15 - Jan 18 with 2614 views
Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:11 - Jan 18 by C_jack
Barcelona the most classic example. Their awesome possession stats aren't built on their passes, it's built on their reaction once they lose it.
The guy who did the presentation is on twitter @louislancs - he did a years analysis on Henckyes team that won the treble then compared that with Pep's team.
Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:09 - Jan 18 by A_Fans_Dad
The problem with "pressing", which I firmly believe is the best way to play any team is that you need a core of good, very Fit, very fast and preferably young players. They not only need to be quick enought to get to the player with the ball to close them down, or to intercept the passes, but they also need the stamina to last about 70 minutes before being replaced by like forl ike players. Do you think that the current Swansea Squad fit that description?
So would a midfield of Carroll, Fulton, Dyer and Routs (leaving Siggy more advanced) have been able to do this do you think?
I think they could have.
And also out of interest does anyone have examples of successful teams who hardly ever press?
The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:28 - Jan 18 with 2569 views
Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:09 - Jan 18 by A_Fans_Dad
The problem with "pressing", which I firmly believe is the best way to play any team is that you need a core of good, very Fit, very fast and preferably young players. They not only need to be quick enought to get to the player with the ball to close them down, or to intercept the passes, but they also need the stamina to last about 70 minutes before being replaced by like forl ike players. Do you think that the current Swansea Squad fit that description?
Sorry but you're being ridiculous. Why can't our squad be as fit as any other squad?
Hasn't Monk repeatedly blown his own trumpet suggesting we're working so hard on all these off the field areas?
It's not so much the fitness it's the tactic of not doing it. Players need to step outside a zone or two and work hard to get at the ball and the man, our play needs to be more dynamic and fluid and we need to roll with the punches more. We need to really boss teams with our football and our desire to stay on the football.
You're all out of time....the past was yours but the future's mine.
Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:28 - Jan 18 by VetchitBack
So would a midfield of Carroll, Fulton, Dyer and Routs (leaving Siggy more advanced) have been able to do this do you think?
I think they could have.
And also out of interest does anyone have examples of successful teams who hardly ever press?
Well you had 3 out of the 4 and it certainly didn't look like it to me. A fit Britton may have made a difference, but even he hasn't been quite so effective since his injury.
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Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:32 - Jan 18 with 2559 views
Sorry but you're being ridiculous. Why can't our squad be as fit as any other squad?
Hasn't Monk repeatedly blown his own trumpet suggesting we're working so hard on all these off the field areas?
It's not so much the fitness it's the tactic of not doing it. Players need to step outside a zone or two and work hard to get at the ball and the man, our play needs to be more dynamic and fluid and we need to roll with the punches more. We need to really boss teams with our football and our desire to stay on the football.
Or we should do our jobs properly. Like you say I think the players folded after the 1st goal, and if we are going to sit off the idea is NOT to let your opponents to play inbetween the lines
Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:31 - Jan 18 by A_Fans_Dad
Well you had 3 out of the 4 and it certainly didn't look like it to me. A fit Britton may have made a difference, but even he hasn't been quite so effective since his injury.
Not sure I understand what you mean?
My gripe is about tactics not personnel
The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:40 - Jan 18 with 2525 views
Tje technical sde of our game has fallen so far behind what it used to be that a minimal amount of pressure on the ball means the opposition get it back easy.
It always used to be that teams knew what we were going to do but we were good enough for it to not matter too much, once we weathered the first 15 mins of intense pressing teams strikers would start to get lazy, nowadays the opposition know it will bare fruit!
The extra work that monks talks about doing with the players in training must not be including the ball and to be honest it shows! the likes of Dyer look rusty as fook nowadays and we don't move into spaces like we used to.
The Villa game this season was an eye opener for me, they basically out played us for long spells and made as look a real run of the mill team, it seems that the team is a jumble, not knowing when to press or keep shape, players look all over the place and don't seem to be as well drilled as we were perhaps led to believe with Garry's double sessions!
Lot's of hard work ahead but i think the players will get the wins they need but slack off when they fancy a rest or not up for a battle, truth be told we have invested heavily but haven't progressed our football one bit.
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Pressing v Keeping Shape on 19:13 - Jan 18 with 2456 views
I'd rather us have lost 8-3 having pressed them and tackled and harried in the first half, than lose like we did and surrender like lambs in the first half. IMO it was a one off result and more importantly performance, and we must learn from it
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Pressing v Keeping Shape on 21:39 - Jan 18 with 2341 views
Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:04 - Jan 18 by waynekerr55
Exactly. Saw a brilliant demo of Bayern. They have the greyhound who presses straight and as soon as the hound has a sniff the 'pack' hunt to win it back. If the pacxk don't get a sniff, they don't bother.
Pressing v Keeping Shape on 18:45 - Jan 18 by icecoldjack
Tje technical sde of our game has fallen so far behind what it used to be that a minimal amount of pressure on the ball means the opposition get it back easy.
It always used to be that teams knew what we were going to do but we were good enough for it to not matter too much, once we weathered the first 15 mins of intense pressing teams strikers would start to get lazy, nowadays the opposition know it will bare fruit!
The extra work that monks talks about doing with the players in training must not be including the ball and to be honest it shows! the likes of Dyer look rusty as fook nowadays and we don't move into spaces like we used to.
The Villa game this season was an eye opener for me, they basically out played us for long spells and made as look a real run of the mill team, it seems that the team is a jumble, not knowing when to press or keep shape, players look all over the place and don't seem to be as well drilled as we were perhaps led to believe with Garry's double sessions!
Lot's of hard work ahead but i think the players will get the wins they need but slack off when they fancy a rest or not up for a battle, truth be told we have invested heavily but haven't progressed our football one bit.
Spot on - we used to defend by keeping the ball whatever, not now. Now its counter attack style but our 2 holding centre mids need to be on the money or we cant absorb the pressure despite having possibly our best ever goal keeper.
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