| 01:00 - Jan 1 with views | |
| | | |  |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 09:32 - Apr 30 with 1253 views | SPARTACUS |
without reading the article, I'll do that lunch time, I think Saints can improve without buying or selling, with the exception of a keeper!
Defensively, none of our key players (apart from Fonte) is at peak age, so should all improve
Midfield - Again, all very young (apart from Steve Davis, and he's not old!) so should improve
Attack - Similar situation, Lallana is peak age, Lambert is old (in player terms) but Rodriguez, Gaston, Gallagher all have years of improvement in them
Of course, we'd need to be very lucky to get through the season with such a thin squad... But I'm not worried about improvement of the key players. In reality they'll need supplementing thought:
Without selling we need extra:
GK
CB
FW | |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 09:36 - Apr 30 with 1246 views | Bison |
Good article Nick. I presume when valuing a club the assets (players) are taken into account. I suppose there is a list somewhere that values all the players , how much would that add upto ?
AL - 20m
LS - 30m
MS - 15m
DL - 10 m
Etc....
So if we did sell that would have big impact and the valuation of the club. I can understand selling off the older depreciating players but would it not be good business to keep the appreciating ones ? | |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 09:42 - Apr 30 with 1238 views | SPARTACUS |
MS - £15M? FFS
£150M! | |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 09:47 - Apr 30 with 1223 views | saints__fan__73 |
I stopped reading after the opening sentence of:
"There has been much talk in the press about how Saints need to sell Star players to balance the books after several seasons of wasting money"
Usual agenda ridden tripe. | |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 09:51 - Apr 30 with 1222 views | Bison |
Just going on the 'quoted' prices in press , I agree he worth more to us than that .
Player who I think we would miss most out of Jc , ms , vw and sd would be Steve Davies at moment. You can easily pearl 2 from 3 out of other 3 . I don't think JWP is quite upto their level yet but reckon next season he will be up there with them. | |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 09:57 - Apr 30 with 1215 views | SaintNick |
Spoken like a true man who refuses to consider anyone elses opinion other than his own, yet is quite prepared to condemn others views without reading them by dismissing them with a, agenda ridden put down sentence
I am quite sure that you cant see the link between yourself and those who write those pieces in the national press trying to undermine the club | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 10:06 - Apr 30 with 1206 views | saints__fan__73 |
Why can't you just write an article without having to constantly get in digs at Cortese?
We all know stopped you buying a season ticket and you are still livid. FFS, give it a rest.
"There has been much talk in the press about how Saints need to sell Star players to balance the books"
No there hasn't.
There were a couple of articles written after the accounts were published which said this due to them mis-reading that we have some outstanding transfer fees to pay as we spread our transfer payments out, as does every other PL club. After this time I haven't heard a single mention from the press that the reason that Morgan, Shaw and Lallana might go is to 'balance the books'. That is agenda ridden tripe from you.
"after several seasons of wasting money"
Yes, I mean in getting promotion to the PL, staying there last season and now finishing 8th, we really have been wasting money. You are an utter loon!
People trying to de-stabilise the club? Do you REALLY think that??????
We are a team outside the Big 6, yet we have several players good enough to play in the CL. OF COURSE the press are going to be linking them with moves to the 'Big Boys'!!!
It would be no different at all to if Stoke, WBA, Villa, etc were in our position, the press would be printing exactly the same amount of stories, it's just how football is now. It is VERY difficult for a PL club to hold on to players that are 'better' than that club's league position.
I'm begining to think in your addled mind you really do think the Cortese is sat in a villa in Italy feeding stories about a club he no longer works for to journalists who for some bizarre reason have extremely loyalty to him!!
Please put my mind at rest and say that you are not mental enough to actually think this? [Post edited 30 Apr 2014 10:07]
| |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 10:41 - Apr 30 with 1164 views | SaintNick |
Its nothing to do with my season ticket, im still here Cortese isnt
Your whole argument always rests on the Premier league issue, that means by your own judgement, last season Cortese stood on the brink of disaster, so i would profer that a man whose whole management of a business relies on forces out of his control isnt a good businessman but a gambler
I dont know whether Cortese is sat in a villa somewhere feeding his friends in the press little snippets, but I would say this, if he could be bothered to spend so much time and effort (and there was a lot of time and effort spent including interviews with the football ombudsman etc) to try and crush an insignificant supporter like myself or engage in spats with ex players, do you not think he would be a whole lot more P*ssed off with someone who has just cost him a £2 million pound a year job | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 10:53 - Apr 30 with 1145 views | saints__fan__73 |
Well done, your second paragraph was utter gibberish and the third shows that we didn't have to scratch far under the surface to find out that paranoia and bitterness were indeed your inspiration for the article. | |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 11:04 - Apr 30 with 1127 views | Heisenberg |
For me it all depends on what happens to MP. If he leaves then I can see a number of our key players wanting to go to bigger clubs. If he stays I can only see him staying for another season which might convince the players to have another year before moving on. | |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 11:09 - Apr 30 with 1123 views | thedelldays |
the only supporters that didnt like NC were the ones who liked to know the comings and goings at SMS rather than just being a fan
it was quite something when fans got really interested in the adverts around the pitch
that is why the likes of duncan holly, nick and the old SISA crowd did not like NC as he never gave them a bone
the average fan loved his time here.
Nick, you come across so very bitter. | | | |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 11:14 - Apr 30 with 1116 views | saints__fan__73 |
Self-appointed uber fans who believed they had the right to talk on the behalf of all fans and felt they were being marginalised, yes? | |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 11:28 - Apr 30 with 1105 views | thedelldays |
it seems that way
no, I know for sure that NC was a bit of a coont. No doubt most chairmen are. he is not there to make friends, he was there to get us up to the prem in 5 years. and in turn maximise the investment for the owner
we got to the prem in 4 years, with some utterly remarkable memories on the way that will be talked about for generations. the managers choices were spot on. Sure things could have been handled better on a personal front but his duty was to maximise the owners investment first and foremost.
NC has left as it appeared, like adkins, he served his purpose. But under his stewardship, we had a brilliant time, playing some staggering football with some amazing players signed and brought through.
shame so many are so bitter. lets, hope ralph and co give the likes of Nick and SISA their pound of flesh or they will turn on him soon enough | | | |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 13:14 - Apr 30 with 1026 views | SPARTACUS |
Although I don't see where selling players to balance books due to wasted money has ever been mentioned, I can't see how anyone can suggest we haven't wasted a fair bit of cash at times in the last could of seasons.
Osvaldo, Forren, Mayuka - that's around £20m wasted just in transfer fees, of which we'll be lucky to get £10m back.
SF73, it's not necessary to attack Nick every time he says something [Post edited 30 Apr 2014 13:31]
| |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 13:50 - Apr 30 with 990 views | SaintNick |
"we got to the prem in 4 years, with some utterly remarkable memories on the way that will be talked about for generations. the managers choices were spot on. Sure things could have been handled better on a personal front but his duty was to maximise the owners investment first and foremost."
We did get to the premier with some remarkable memories, I was there for most of them, yes it will be talked about for generations, but what people will talk about is Fonte's winner at Brighton, Lallana's silky skills, Lamberts blockbustter goals, I guarantee you in 20 years no one will say remember the day at Brighton when Cortese changed the game for us or Lallana learned all of his skills off Cortese or Lambert couldnt hit a barn door before Cortese spent all those afternoons on the training ground with him.
Under NC some fans embraced the idea of the Chairman as being some sort of extension of the team, we were the only club to sing a song about our chairman lol
Yes by us getting into the Premier it maximised our investment, but since we got there we have tipped half of that down the drain in poor transfers, training ground follies and wasted commercial opportunities
My memories about the last five years are happy, they are all about going to games and seeing the team improve, some people though prefer the cult of chairman | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 13:53 - Apr 30 with 985 views | thedelldays |
no one prefers the cult of the chairman, just appreciate his part in all of this
much like lowes good work leading up to 2003 and his bad work there after
nothing more, stop pretending it is more than that [Post edited 30 Apr 2014 13:56]
| | | |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 14:02 - Apr 30 with 970 views | st_bangkok |
With the money Leibherr's put in it would have been harder to fail. I would suggest that most CEO's/Chairmen of worth would have succeeded. NC has likely been removed as he had a slap dash approach to spending other peoples money.
In any business you have a target, his was to get us to the PL AND be sustainable. He failed on part II so he is gone. In any business you would be removed for such a failure. | |
| Sometime people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed. | | Poll: | 9/11 - Conspiracy or not? |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 14:05 - Apr 30 with 967 views | thedelldays |
what are you now saying, that NC spent money he was not allowed to
I thought he was just a mere employee?????
which is it now?
he has gone. he tenure here was nothing but brilliant. sure we could have had a few more adverts around the pitch, which team couldnt. but on the field. like it or not (and this place really doesnt) he played his part in that.
like markus did, like Katerina did, like les reed, adkins, pardew. he played his part
how on earth are we not sustainable, by the way? [Post edited 30 Apr 2014 14:09]
| | | |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 14:15 - Apr 30 with 953 views | SaintNick |
I have always acknowledged Cortese's good work, sadly he undid most of it with his own ego and bungling
Yes we got to the Premier league, but we did it without major investment (Indeed with the sale of Chamberlain we probably spent less than we received) , so whose good work is that down to, Pardew and Adkins who built a team based on talent already at the club along with shrewd signings, or the Chairman's
I would say Cortese's achievments here are basically in appointing first Adkins and then Pochettino (Pardew was here before he got his feet under the table) but again how much of either was down to the influence of Les Reed ?
Unlike Lowe who had to raise funds to build a football ground and at the same time raise funds to keep us in the premier league, Cortese just sat back and took the plaudits that were earned by the skills of Pardew/Adkins & Pochettino backed by the money of the Liebherrs
Im actually struggling to find many positives about what he actually did for this club apart from the fact that we got promoted in his time here, no one has ever suggested to me that any of our past achievements be it promotions, the FA Cup or any other things were down to whoever was the Chairman at the time, | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 14:15 - Apr 30 with 953 views | patred |
There was indeed a lot of money wasted, not only in the pursuit of 'Marquee signings' but also in inflated prices paid to 'consultancies' to make these complicated signings from Italy.
These signings were made without reference to our own scouting department, definately without the manager(s) in charge approval, and most likely were a surprise to our own director of football.
You have to ask yourself if these signings were for 'football reasons' or to inflate the egotistic ambitions of a chairman whose power had gone to his head.
We can all remember the surprise expressed by Adkins on news that Ramirez had signed, all remember Mauricio denying he knew anything about Forren when it was apparent he was signed without Adkins knowing either.
Not for the first time this had happened, some of the later signings in the Pardew era were an absolute surprise to him...
It makes you wonder if someone was using his position to play Football Manager with someone elses money..
People will point to the fact that we gained promotion in his regime, yes we did!!! But was it because of him or was in despite of him.??? [Post edited 30 Apr 2014 14:25]
| |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 14:18 - Apr 30 with 945 views | ClickInsect |
Since joining this board, I've been massively surprised with the anti-Cortese sentiment. To me, it was an article of faith that we'd all be hugely appreciated of a guy that took us from the brink of liquidation to the best football I've seen in the 25 years I've supported the club.
It's clear, to anybody that paid an interested, that the man was a colossal dick with a Napoleon complex. But like the general himself, he commanded huge loyalty and respect from those closest to him. Through his behavior he ensured that he did not have a single shred of goodwill to call in from the media & fan groups. But because he delivered on the pitch, he never needed to call any in. That's why the opinion of "Saints Fans" will always be markedly different to some posters on this forum. If your experience during the last four years amounted to going to matches & following the club, it's pretty much impossible to feel anything but gratitude.
If you post nothing but polemic, then you satisfy those who already have the same opinion as you, but you alienate the overwhelming majority of the fan-base. Most people think he was an arse hole & that it was inevitable he would leave, because he was an employee who refused to accept that. But that shouldn't mean that every achievement he made, should be rubbished. He is not Julius Ceaser and you are not Cato.
This is becoming like prime minster's question time, but:
"£7 million pounds per year less than the likes of Fulham, West Brom and Stoke to name but three".
Can you confirm that these figures were taken from a year in which Saints had just come off back to back promotions and had deals which were signed while we were a member of the football league?
"Morgan is probably the player we could most do without" - Short sighted. He's the first name on the team-sheet & with him, with have three CDMs for two positions. The reason why Morgan is so important is because he validates our high press. We have an honest group, so our first line press is good enough to stop defenders and defensive midfielders from being able to look up. Morgan however, has the athleticism and intensity required to not only get to the player (JWP does that much) but to win a tackle. The movement reminds me of a quarterback sack in American football. The difference between forcing a pass & winning the ball back. Morgan is exceptional. We bought Wanyama and overpaid for him last season, because MoPo considered him one of the few players in Europe that had similar characteristics. Cork contributes loads as well, but doesn't have the same intensity in his sprints, so a lot of his tackles as due to positioning as opposed to the press.
"But if Doomsday did happen then we would have a hell of a kitty to replace those who have gone." - Yes, but we'd have the following problems.
1. When do we know who is staying or going and how much money we have?
2. How over-priced were are players when we sold them? Can we find comparable quality for the money?
We already need to bring in 4-5 without players leaving. If the managers goes to, I've no idea how we'd identify & attract players for less money & with the same quality as the players that have left. We'd also be left integrating a huge number of new faces into a club whose recent success has been down to the bond in the dressing room.
Generally speaking though.
Scenario 1: Doesn't constitute improvement as doesn't address the squad size. 15 million doesn't replace Jay-Rod till Christmas. Jos & Guly will also leave. Two attacking midfielders and a CB for that money isn't beyond the realms of possibility. But to improve on 8th doing it, would be.
Scenario 2: Osvaldo is a given (so should be part of Scenario 1), we will end up taking whatever we are offered. It was always stupid to send him to Juve, but I don't know what the loan fee was so perhaps it made some sense. We should take a fee for Yoshida as he has a profile but isn't upto it. I rate Gaston at about eight million. It's clear he has fantastic ability and he's a good lad, but he has Pahars levels of fitness and his agent is a prick. He needs to make his mind up this summer.
Scenario 3: This will happen if a buying club values one of our players, higher than we do. For e.g. Carroll & Fellani deals. The fact that the papers think we'll be grateful for 15 million for our captain, playmaker, tallisman and poster boy is absurd. Well it's not really, as they are hacks producing words & don't care as long as the story has LIVERPOOL, LALLANA in it.
Scenario 4: I'd say there was another scenario, because you've not factored the manager into any of these scenarios and I'd say that whether he stays or goes with be an indication of what happens next.
A scenario that isn't likely, is that MoPo goes then we keep and invest in the squad. Always possible though.
But what is really bizarre is...... that out of all your scenarios, you've not put the scenario that has happened for the past four years? The club make a significant capital investment into improving the squad? | |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 14:20 - Apr 30 with 939 views | webberg |
Perhaps three issues here to pick up on.
Firstly, the ones who gain most from the merry go round of players is the agents and "advisers". In exchange for a few bits of gossip to the press, they can get almost anything published with a few to creating unsettled players. Unfortunately the press, who should be reporting the news, often try to make the news and are in a unique position to do that. I usually dismiss 80% of football pages as worthless gossip.
Secondly, NC might have an interest in creating an unsettled team/club. Perhaps he is sore at having had his bluff called and wants to head a financial group to buy the club from Kat for no other reason than ego. He would be well served by the press nonsense we've seen.
Thirdly, there has been a lot of mention of "the project" and the fact that MP and the players have bought into this. It would be nice to know if the project aims have been adjusted to take into account the rapid rise to top 8 and some assessment done of what it takes (money, players, money, manager, money, facilities, money, off field activities, money) to get to top 6 or top 5 (or - whisper it gently - top 4). If that assessment has been done, why can't Krueger or Kat come spell it out?
At the moment we're unsure whether Kat has the resources or ambition to match the big spenders or whether she/Krueger thinks that Financial Fair Play will bring the big spenders back towards us and therefore she is looking for maintenance rather than improvement?
The key is ambition. Chelski are driven by one man's ego to be recognised but like others is actually all money, no class.
City are driven by Arab money where having a high profile is seen as a sign of national necessity.
Utd have suffered as their owners want to see cash out. Arsenal are in maintenance mode waiting for FFP. Spurs are clueless and have wasted their opportunity. Liverpool just happen to have several players in the form of their lives and Suarez.
The teams below us are arguably nowhere near as resourced as we could potentially be.
Stick with the project. A modest investment in a decent striker and keeper and top 5 is within our grasp. | | | |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 14:33 - Apr 30 with 918 views | SaintNick |
With regard to the figures, I have compared saints figures for our first season back in the premier ie 2012/13 with the most up to date complete list which is 2011/12, so if anything the other clubs figures may have risen
Im interested in your remark about considerable cash investment into the squad.
2009/10 , Lambert £1.2, Hammond £750k, Fonte, £800k, Barnard £300k, Puncheon £300k
= £approx £3.3 yes a significant investment made by Liebherr
2010/11 Forte £100k, Chaplow ?, Jack Stephens £150k
Total £250 k
Transfers out Chamberlain £15 million
Running profit in transfers approx £11 million
2011/12
Cork £750k, De Ridder £1.2, Fox £2 million, Hooiveld £1 million, Sharp £1.8 million
Total £6.75 million
So basically transfer fees paid out to get us to the Premier league approx £11 million if we round it up by about 10%, transfer fees received £15 million so that shows there was actually no capital investment made into the squad, only about 3/4 of the actual amount we received. | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 14:38 - Apr 30 with 914 views | saints__fan__73 |
"Morgan is probably the player we could most do without"
Did he really write that?
Yep, what would we want with arguably the very best defensive midfielder in the PL.
No doubt if we sold him we could buy a nippy winger or two...... | |
| |
| Can Saints Buy And Improve Without Selling Key Players on 14:39 - Apr 30 with 911 views | ClickInsect |
The reason why you'll never win the argument and seem so out of touch, is because of the issue of expectation. What do you expect of a chairman? Because what he did obviously isn't good enough for you, to the point where you make snide remarks about him in articles on a daily basis.
Take away all the minor line items like corporate box availability etc & try to focus on the bottom line while answering me this question.
It's the day the liquidation of Southampton F.C is stopped. You come on the message board and somebody asks you what you would rate Cortese's performance out of ten IF in five years time the club had:
* Wins the Paints Trophy
* Win promotion to the Championship
* Win promotion to the Premiership at first time of asking
* Finish 14th in the Premiership
* Finish 8th in the Premiership
* Have four players in the England squad
* Have five English teenagers in the first team
* Have a playing squad worth 100m +
* Have a club worth estimated 300m
* For a total investment of about 50m
Honestly tell me now what you would have given the chairman out of 10. Please don't add caveats of why the points I've made aren't important, unless they change the bottom line. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
