| Two-tier justice? 03:02 - Feb 5 with 1348 views | AnotherJohn |
In a week when six of the Palestine Action activists who broke into an Elbit Systems facility to damage equipment were found not guilty of aggravated burglary, it emerges that Lord Hermer approved the fast-tracking of Lucy Connolly's social media post case. Was the Secret Barrister right to say there was no such thing as two-tier justice?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news
https://www.bbc.com/news/artic
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| Two-tier justice? on 09:00 - Feb 5 with 1283 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
None of them look like they’ve been on “hunger strike” or have been “close to death” anytime recently. |  |
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| Two-tier justice? on 09:18 - Feb 5 with 1257 views | Dr_Winston |
The Western European systems (I include places influenced by that like Australia) are f*cked. Everyone knows it, some pretend otherwise, those who say so are targeted. It's why Governments are trying to crack down on social media sites that they can't control and pretending it's for child protection. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Two-tier justice? on 21:36 - Feb 5 with 1190 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
Entering a British military station by force with the intent to damage extremely expensive warplanes should have seen them shot on the spot.
It was a hostile act and I expect the military to protect their assets in a time of heighten world politics. |  |
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| Two-tier justice? on 01:01 - Feb 6 with 1142 views | AnotherJohn |
| Two-tier justice? on 21:36 - Feb 5 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Entering a British military station by force with the intent to damage extremely expensive warplanes should have seen them shot on the spot.
It was a hostile act and I expect the military to protect their assets in a time of heighten world politics. |
Harsh, but many of us understand where you are coming from. Meanwhile, the leader of the Green Party says he is pleased with the verdicts on the six tried so far. The Police Federation was not amused.
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| Two-tier justice? on 09:06 - Feb 6 with 1085 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Two-tier justice? on 01:01 - Feb 6 by AnotherJohn |
Harsh, but many of us understand where you are coming from. Meanwhile, the leader of the Green Party says he is pleased with the verdicts on the six tried so far. The Police Federation was not amused.
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Perverse decision by the jury. | |
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| Two-tier justice? on 11:07 - Feb 6 with 1040 views | onehunglow |
| Two-tier justice? on 09:06 - Feb 6 by felixstowe_jack |
Perverse decision by the jury. |
and a dangerous one.
Here we see a crime being filmed and the perps celebrating
After this dumbarse verdict,a leader of a British political party celebrates it as being morally just | |
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| Two-tier justice? on 11:11 - Feb 6 with 1029 views | union_jack |
| Two-tier justice? on 11:07 - Feb 6 by onehunglow |
and a dangerous one.
Here we see a crime being filmed and the perps celebrating
After this dumbarse verdict,a leader of a British political party celebrates it as being morally just |
I really don’t know where this country is going but wherever it is I’m not sure I like it. |  |
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| Two-tier justice? on 11:27 - Feb 6 with 1014 views | onehunglow |
| Two-tier justice? on 11:11 - Feb 6 by union_jack |
I really don’t know where this country is going but wherever it is I’m not sure I like it. |
As we get old,we get more mardy and I question myself often so I don't turn out to be obsessed with ruminating about the past when nothing was meant to last .
However,I think we are totally lost. We have people questioning their own gender and encouraging children to doubt what they physically are , we refuse to truly punish who take or ruin the lives of others and we have politicians who are immoral and perverse.
Life really should be simple.
Its either us or them,good or bad.
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| Two-tier justice? on 11:32 - Feb 6 with 1002 views | AnotherJohn |
| Two-tier justice? on 11:07 - Feb 6 by onehunglow |
and a dangerous one.
Here we see a crime being filmed and the perps celebrating
After this dumbarse verdict,a leader of a British political party celebrates it as being morally just |
Apart from David Paulden (who thought a foreign sounding name would go down better with woke voters), Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have also expressed support for the verdict. What a double act they would have made had a GE result gone the other way! The defendants are "on the right side of history" according to Corbyn. | | | |
| Two-tier justice? on 16:29 - Feb 6 with 919 views | onehunglow |
| Two-tier justice? on 11:32 - Feb 6 by AnotherJohn |
Apart from David Paulden (who thought a foreign sounding name would go down better with woke voters), Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have also expressed support for the verdict. What a double act they would have made had a GE result gone the other way! The defendants are "on the right side of history" according to Corbyn. |
I’ve tried to delete those from
My brain | |
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| Two-tier justice? on 17:46 - Feb 6 with 902 views | max936 |
I don't really know where to start with this one, but this country is getting more and more dangerous when people with the power are making decisions like this example, something has to change and very quickly. |  |
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| Two-tier justice? on 09:32 - Feb 7 with 809 views | Boundy |
| Two-tier justice? on 17:46 - Feb 6 by max936 |
I don't really know where to start with this one, but this country is getting more and more dangerous when people with the power are making decisions like this example, something has to change and very quickly. |
People are concerned about Reform should they gain power and yet appear to tacitly support the other two major parties regardless of their history. Chairman Mao once said change must come through the barrel of a gun , I’m not saying for a moment we’re anywhere near that sort of environment but change must come and soon. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Two-tier justice? on 13:51 - Feb 7 with 768 views | Gwyn737 |
Secret barrister has had their say.
This isn’t a comment on where the result is right or wrong, but the fact that it’s a jury trial compared to Connolly’s magistrate one and for two completely different offences, I don’t see how it can be made into an argument for two tier justice.
I agree that from what I know, the verdict seems nuts. But evidence of two tier? No. | | | |
| Two-tier justice? on 14:37 - Feb 7 with 753 views | onehunglow |
| Two-tier justice? on 13:51 - Feb 7 by Gwyn737 |
Secret barrister has had their say.
This isn’t a comment on where the result is right or wrong, but the fact that it’s a jury trial compared to Connolly’s magistrate one and for two completely different offences, I don’t see how it can be made into an argument for two tier justice.
I agree that from what I know, the verdict seems nuts. But evidence of two tier? No. |
“ Barrister”
That’s enough for me
Ych a fi | |
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| Two-tier justice? on 14:52 - Feb 7 with 741 views | AnotherJohn |
| Two-tier justice? on 13:51 - Feb 7 by Gwyn737 |
Secret barrister has had their say.
This isn’t a comment on where the result is right or wrong, but the fact that it’s a jury trial compared to Connolly’s magistrate one and for two completely different offences, I don’t see how it can be made into an argument for two tier justice.
I agree that from what I know, the verdict seems nuts. But evidence of two tier? No. |
I saw this and thought TSB was rather sitting on the fence, while still implying that there was a possible line of legal reasoning that would lead to the verdicts handed down. My impression (which may be highly subjective) is that the technical considerations mentioned that could lead to a not guilty verdict, such as presence of intention to cause harm and the threshold for GBH, wouldn't be seen as applicable or compelling by most average juries in this case. I thought the question put by the jury to the judge about whether the moral feelings leading to action could be considered was very revealing,
Yes, it is true the two cases are very different, not least because Connolly (in my view mistakenly) pleaded guilty. My concern is more with the broad brush picture, including the pattern of outcomes across several cases and the urgency with which government law officers get involved in certain cases rather than others. [Post edited 7 Feb 14:53]
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| Two-tier justice? on 15:03 - Feb 7 with 732 views | Gwyn737 |
| Two-tier justice? on 14:52 - Feb 7 by AnotherJohn |
I saw this and thought TSB was rather sitting on the fence, while still implying that there was a possible line of legal reasoning that would lead to the verdicts handed down. My impression (which may be highly subjective) is that the technical considerations mentioned that could lead to a not guilty verdict, such as presence of intention to cause harm and the threshold for GBH, wouldn't be seen as applicable or compelling by most average juries in this case. I thought the question put by the jury to the judge about whether the moral feelings leading to action could be considered was very revealing,
Yes, it is true the two cases are very different, not least because Connolly (in my view mistakenly) pleaded guilty. My concern is more with the broad brush picture, including the pattern of outcomes across several cases and the urgency with which government law officers get involved in certain cases rather than others. [Post edited 7 Feb 14:53]
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You could well be right but for me, I haven’t seen enough empirical evidence of there being two tier in application of the law.
In some cases, I think the constant highlighting of events is making achieving justice more challenging.
From the way this case has been framed, you’d think the person who hurt the police officer had got off. They haven’t. They’re still in custody.
Yet we have Badenoch and others calling two tier justice which ironically may prejudice a future trial. It could then be called two tier justice. Again. | | | |
| Two-tier justice? on 23:12 - Feb 7 with 699 views | KeithHaynes |
| Two-tier justice? on 21:36 - Feb 5 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Entering a British military station by force with the intent to damage extremely expensive warplanes should have seen them shot on the spot.
It was a hostile act and I expect the military to protect their assets in a time of heighten world politics. |
There are three that still exist today that would have seen them potentially lose their lives. |  |
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| Two-tier justice? on 23:17 - Feb 7 with 696 views | KeithHaynes |
| Two-tier justice? on 09:06 - Feb 6 by felixstowe_jack |
Perverse decision by the jury. |
More about personal politics than anything else. Do that at someone’s house and you wont see the light of day for at least six years. | |
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| Two-tier justice? on 01:57 - Feb 8 with 677 views | Robbie |
Just skim read this thread , some details far too much for me to understand with my limited knowledge on the Palestine and would never dare to get involved in a discussion on the rights and wrongs of this mess ongoing since 1948 , way above my pay grade anyway .
Zack Polanski and his Party will be bottom of my X pencil vote at the Ballot Box again .
Just where do these public speakers get their ideas from , the lot of them too .
I despair sometimes on our politicians across all parties .
Twp maybe . | | | |
| Two-tier justice? on 10:29 - Feb 8 with 617 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Two-tier justice? on 11:32 - Feb 6 by AnotherJohn |
Apart from David Paulden (who thought a foreign sounding name would go down better with woke voters), Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have also expressed support for the verdict. What a double act they would have made had a GE result gone the other way! The defendants are "on the right side of history" according to Corbyn. |
Wonder if Corbyn will be protesting outside the Iranian Embassy after they killed 6000 of their own citizens just for peacefully protesting about equal rights for women. | |
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| Two-tier justice? on 23:14 - Feb 9 with 386 views | majorraglan |
The Secret Barrister is correct with his comments. The article by the Daily Telegraph states Lord Hermer approved the fast tracking of Lucy Connolly’s case, but in reality what has actually happened is due process has been followed.
Following the 2011 riots, the government conducted a wide ranging review which identified that swift justice was required when dealing with offenders. After the horrendous Southport murders, the police were required to identify, arrest and deal with offenders quickly to prevent the disorder escalating and that is exactly what they did. There’s no better deterrent to a would be offender than seeing another offender being arrested within hours of committing the offence and then getting a serious stretch at Her Majesty’s pleasure the following day. A stretch in prison can certainly focus some people’s minds.
Many years ago decisions on Charging suspects would have been a matter for the Custody Officer at a police custody unit, however government reforms were introduced which mandated that the police had to refer cases where they believed there was sufficient evidence to Charge a suspect to the Crown Prosecution for a decision. The intention was to improve standard, lower discontinuance rates at Court and I dare say a fair dollop of saving money. If the police thought they had enough evidence they would either release the suspect on bail pending submission of an advice file to the CPS to obtain a Charging decision from the CPS, or in those cases where the police had the suspect in custody, thought they had enough evidence to Charge AND felt it necessary to remand the suspect to prison whilst awaiting trial, they would need to refer the case directly to CPS, in cases where the Charging decision would be likely to be required outside office hours the case would go to CPS Direct.
The changes resulted in significant delays in prosecutions being initiated and a massive increase in the number of cases being referred to the CPS (which was already under huge pressure resource wise.) The problems were subsequently identified and subsequent tweaks to the guidance restored some of the police powers to Charge suspects accused of more minor offending, but the CPS still make most of the calls. Connolly’s case would not fit the criteria for a police charging decision.
Connolly was Charged on indictment with an offence of inciting racial hatred contrary to section 19(1) of the Public Order Act 1986. No proceedings for an offence under this Part may be instituted in England and Wales except by or with the consent of the Attorney General hence Lord Hermer’s involvement. The referral to the CPS for a Charging decision for an offence of this nature at a time of mass disorder would be standard practice.
What is of concern to me is that Chris Philp, a former Minister Of State for Crime, Policing and Fire and now the shadow home secretary, said: “This clearly shows that the Government wanted to make an example of Lucy Connolly ... she was scapegoated by the Government, and it appears to me that, had she pleaded not guilty, she would have had a good chance of being acquitted.”
Is he bumping his gums off for the sake of being heard and political point scoring or does he not understand what has actually happened? She admitted the offence in interview, what part of that doesn’t he understand? How can she admit the offence in a police interview and then go on and deny it in Court? Beggars belief! She would have been laughed out of Court and from her perspective lost the opportunity to maximise her discount for an early guilty plea. It’s a frightening thought that we once had Philip in charge.
In terms of the Palestinian Action activists, the abhorrent decision to acquit them is in my opinion a perverse decision and I’m of the view they should be serving a 10+ year stretch at King Charles pleasure as should the miscreants who toppled the Colston statue in Bristol a few years ago. The fact that the defendants in those cases were acquitted is nothing to do with the government or Starmer - they were acquitted by jury. I am against removing the right to trial by jury, but there are the odd occasions when we get verdicts like this that I think there could just be a bit of mileage in it! [Post edited 10 Feb 18:04]
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