| Amit’s put club up for sale! 00:46 - Oct 12 with 13554 views | Nov77 |
Just confirmed on sky sports news.
Last saturday Amit shanked a 7 iron into the woods on the fourteenth hole, said he’s had it with that club and put it on eBay.
[Post edited 12 Oct 2023 0:47]
|  |
| |  |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:12 - Oct 13 with 2256 views | Northernr |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 08:03 - Oct 13 by stevec |
In terms of buying the football club, any sensible new owner would tell this lot to convert any remaining debt into shares, hand over the keys to LR, then offer to relieve them of all future pain by placing a £1 coin on the table.
They’d separately sensibly agree to take over responsibility and payment for the training ground but as far as LR, in its capacity as only being a sports facility, and the playing side, £1 would be a perfectly reasonable offer.
Even that offer might only happen if we hurry up and get relegated to League One. |
You are still then immediately on the hook for the monthly loss, and because of FFP{ you've got a sht team that you can't do anything with. One would presume if you're buying a club you want to throw a bit of money about and make some signings, we struggle to do that and stay within the rules. |  | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:20 - Oct 13 with 2195 views | gazza1 |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:12 - Oct 13 by Northernr |
You are still then immediately on the hook for the monthly loss, and because of FFP{ you've got a sht team that you can't do anything with. One would presume if you're buying a club you want to throw a bit of money about and make some signings, we struggle to do that and stay within the rules. |
How can we get out of the 'hole' we are in then Norf?? |  | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:27 - Oct 13 with 2173 views | DavieQPR |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:20 - Oct 13 by gazza1 |
How can we get out of the 'hole' we are in then Norf?? |
It;s known as 'grin and bear it' for a couple of seasons and then hope the owners will pump more money in. |  | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:31 - Oct 13 with 2143 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
So Stoke... Lost £42.5m in 2021 but balanced some of that off by selling the stadium and training ground. Then lost £18.2m in 2022 but had £120m exceptional item income turning it into £101.8m profit.
What's going on there then?
By the rules we seem to play within (or try to) they'd be running at a £60.3m two year rolling loss, needing to make a £21m profit this year to comply. Even with the Souttar money, they surely couldn't change an £18m loss into a £20m profit?
And how are the EFL viewing this? Any idiot that can add up can see that within the spirit and intention of the rules they're at £-£60m. They're just going to allow this asset selling and exceptional income nonsense are they?
Also, just another complaint - if the rules that were invented with the intention of protecting football clubs financially are encouraging football clubs to sell off their only solid assets to individuals... What is the F-ing point? |  | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:56 - Oct 13 with 2044 views | Third_Division_South |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:20 - Oct 13 by gazza1 |
How can we get out of the 'hole' we are in then Norf?? |
Well, as I understand it the plan is/was get Ainsworth, a manager who can operate on next to no budget. Spend the bare minimum to scrape under FFP this season. Stay up! then next season we’ll have a few bob to spend. | | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 10:02 - Oct 13 with 2004 views | DejR_vu |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:31 - Oct 13 by Padulas_Shampoo |
So Stoke... Lost £42.5m in 2021 but balanced some of that off by selling the stadium and training ground. Then lost £18.2m in 2022 but had £120m exceptional item income turning it into £101.8m profit.
What's going on there then?
By the rules we seem to play within (or try to) they'd be running at a £60.3m two year rolling loss, needing to make a £21m profit this year to comply. Even with the Souttar money, they surely couldn't change an £18m loss into a £20m profit?
And how are the EFL viewing this? Any idiot that can add up can see that within the spirit and intention of the rules they're at £-£60m. They're just going to allow this asset selling and exceptional income nonsense are they?
Also, just another complaint - if the rules that were invented with the intention of protecting football clubs financially are encouraging football clubs to sell off their only solid assets to individuals... What is the F-ing point? |
Even more bizarre, is that when the EFL got the big hammer out, art of the club's argument was that the owners were converting debt to equity (i.e. damaging their personal balance sheets, not the club's) which wasn't allowed as a mitigating factor, but formed part of the punishment, weird.
Do the EFL prefer clubs selling the family silver or the owners taking the hit? Until recently, it seemed like the former.
The problem seems to be that they're not cute enough to spot the loopholes, so they're always behind the curve. They're so desperate to prevent smaller clubs prospering at the expense of the bigger clubs, they tie themselves up in knots trying to dress this all up as protection against unscrupulous owners, when they are the real danger to clubs; let pretty much anyone own a club, let them destroy it, then punish the club, rather than the owner, for it. Surely, just let anyone spend what they like, as long as it's not debt against the club. | |
| |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 10:07 - Oct 13 with 1981 views | hubble |
The only thing I can add in terms of why we might still be sold is that maybe we're looking at it from a normal person's perspective. To our eyes those figures make us look like as hopeless case. But from a billionaire's perspective, all that is (almost) irrelevant. If you want to get into football, and you want a central London team, then we're the only option. A billionaire (possibly) doesn't care about the 2 million a month they'd have to stump up - that's chump change, if it means you've got a foothold. They could bear the loss, finance a promotion, take the risk, whatever. All I know is they don't think like you and I do. That's why they're billionaires. |  |
| |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 10:08 - Oct 13 with 1981 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:56 - Oct 13 by Third_Division_South |
Well, as I understand it the plan is/was get Ainsworth, a manager who can operate on next to no budget. Spend the bare minimum to scrape under FFP this season. Stay up! then next season we’ll have a few bob to spend. |
That's not true is it?
2021= -£4.1m
2022= -£22.7m (-£26.8m 2yr rolling, allowing -£12m)
2023= -£12m (assuming we're right on the FFP line. -£38.8m 2 yr rolling, allowing £0m)
2024= £0.
So even next year we're still going to have to somehow break even? And we won't really have access to any bob at all until the £22.7m season has dropped off? | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 10:12 - Oct 13 with 1945 views | Northernr |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:20 - Oct 13 by gazza1 |
How can we get out of the 'hole' we are in then Norf?? |
1 - accidentally stumble into the Premier League.
2 - Selling players. Selling players frequently, for large amounts of money, and investing some of that in other players who themselves can be sold for large amounts of money. The more you do it the more you can spend.
3 - In League One FFP still applies, but any debt converted to equity doesn't count. In th Championship it does. This is the way our owners fund the club so it's a much more favourable environment for us. Both Ipswich and Sunderland went down and used that to build bright, young squads capable of coming back into this league and competing with a few smart additions and loans. Of course you've got to have people at your club intelligent and talented enough to oversee an overhaul, otherwise you look like Derrby, or Bradford.
4 - Rich bloke buys it, ignores the FFP rules, spends £100m on a team, and gets promoted within 18 months before the accounts come out. | | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 10:15 - Oct 13 with 1899 views | stevec |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 10:02 - Oct 13 by DejR_vu |
Even more bizarre, is that when the EFL got the big hammer out, art of the club's argument was that the owners were converting debt to equity (i.e. damaging their personal balance sheets, not the club's) which wasn't allowed as a mitigating factor, but formed part of the punishment, weird.
Do the EFL prefer clubs selling the family silver or the owners taking the hit? Until recently, it seemed like the former.
The problem seems to be that they're not cute enough to spot the loopholes, so they're always behind the curve. They're so desperate to prevent smaller clubs prospering at the expense of the bigger clubs, they tie themselves up in knots trying to dress this all up as protection against unscrupulous owners, when they are the real danger to clubs; let pretty much anyone own a club, let them destroy it, then punish the club, rather than the owner, for it. Surely, just let anyone spend what they like, as long as it's not debt against the club. |
This is true. The Championship has to bring the rules into line with League One and Two.
At present, it’s virtually only Championship sides who are taking a points hit and it’s making every season in it a farce.
It’s one of the reasons I believe clubs like ours are only worth a quid. Why would you pay anymore when you know you will immediately be running at a loss if you wish to compete. And while that’s the case, it makes more sense to take over a League One side, knowing you can build a side with little risk of punishment and take a running start if you get into the Championship.
There’s no guarantee it’ll work but for any aspiring owner buying a side like ours, in the championship, under the present rules, is the definition of madness. [Post edited 13 Oct 2023 10:17]
|  | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 14:49 - Oct 13 with 1714 views | KensalT |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 13:56 - Oct 12 by Northernr |
Let's have a look at that attractive proposition, shall we?
The club, at the last set of accounts, loses £2m a month in its current state. You'd be on the hook for that as soon as you buy it. It's likely much less this season (well, we wanna hope it's much less this season or we're in breach of FFP), but still that's £24m a year as at the last set of accounts.
The training ground development is said to be £20m+ of which £7m+ was raised through the bond. So there's another £14m there which was more than likely not paid up front, will be done on finance and over time. You'd be picking up whatever is left there.
There is a historic FFP fine (£17m fine and £3m of EFL legal costs). They were paying that off in instalments over a ten year period, and the settlement was in 2018 so five years of that left = at the last set of accounts £10.2m.
We owe the EFL £6m for loans taken during the Covid lockdown.
At the last set of accounts we owed £2.1m in outstanding player transfer fees.
Our owners effectively write the debt off. They put money in to fund all of that, and then periodically they just convert the debt to equity. We're very fortunate they do, we'd be dead immediately without it. But as at the last set of accounts we owed £52m in shareholder loans. Like I say, they'll likely just convert that to equity in time (it's how Ruben has become the majority shareholder ahead of Fernandes, because he's picking up the cheque) but were they to sell the club at that point would they be expecting some/all of that back from whoever is buying it?
Anyway, conservative estimate, as at the last set of accounts, just to get the keys to the door would cost you £69.5m
That's before you even start with what you're buying.
The reason the club is so screwed FFP wise is because it has an antiquated, small stadium which generates no income, and apparently is very difficult to improve. Even if you could improve it with a new stand, hospitality, "digging down", revolving restaurant, how much does that all cost?
You're also inheriting a squad that needs significant improvement in every area, but to do so breaches the rules of the league because of the FFP situation. Your options would just be to completely ignore FFP, build the team you wanted, and get it promoted within 12 months (Wolves), but if you miss then you become Sheff Wed or Derby because that's what they did. Or you settle in for a seriously long rebuild under the rules, which given the state of the team now would almost certainly include a drop into League One (inconveniently just as the Championship gets a nice new double your money TV deal).
So £69m to get the keys to a millstone stadium you can't improve with the division's worst team you can't do anything with. But, yeh, you're right, we are in London.
It's what Jeff said above. If they could find anybody stupid enough to do it they'd have been off like a shot years ago. It's a money pit.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
You make a grim case.
I think there are a lot of counter-arguments but I'm no financial wiz so it would mostly be rhetorical stuff like...... "if we're such a car crash why don't our experienced and successful businessmen owners do a Mel Morris and cut their losses?", etc.
However, Niall probably does know more about this stuff than I do and at the time Tony Fernandes sold up he suggested that TF's shares would have been worth around £30m.
At the recent Fans Forum it was stated that the existing owners bought the Fernandes shares.
If that is true, and assuming they paid at or near market value then that is a big chunk of change to throw into the pot if you really believe you are holding a losing hand!
Perhaps our owners are reckless optimists. They might be naively chasing losses they'll never get back. Or maybe they see opportunities in all of this that simple financial illiterates like me can't see. | | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 14:58 - Oct 13 with 1689 views | Mick_S |
Nov - glad to see you are only 0-1 down now on the post votes. Just hang in there and it will be ok. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
| |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 15:49 - Oct 13 with 1595 views | kensalriser |
Stoke's 120m exceptional income. What is it and why hasn't it been taxed? |  |
| |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 15:53 - Oct 13 with 1589 views | Northernr |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 15:49 - Oct 13 by kensalriser |
Stoke's 120m exceptional income. What is it and why hasn't it been taxed? |
Ground sale to owner, actively encouraged under Shaun Harvey’s reign, since rightly discounted. | | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 16:09 - Oct 13 with 1517 views | NewBee |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 09:31 - Oct 13 by Padulas_Shampoo |
So Stoke... Lost £42.5m in 2021 but balanced some of that off by selling the stadium and training ground. Then lost £18.2m in 2022 but had £120m exceptional item income turning it into £101.8m profit.
What's going on there then?
By the rules we seem to play within (or try to) they'd be running at a £60.3m two year rolling loss, needing to make a £21m profit this year to comply. Even with the Souttar money, they surely couldn't change an £18m loss into a £20m profit?
And how are the EFL viewing this? Any idiot that can add up can see that within the spirit and intention of the rules they're at £-£60m. They're just going to allow this asset selling and exceptional income nonsense are they?
Also, just another complaint - if the rules that were invented with the intention of protecting football clubs financially are encouraging football clubs to sell off their only solid assets to individuals... What is the F-ing point? |
"So Stoke... Lost £42.5m in 2021 but balanced some of that off by selling the stadium and training ground. Then lost £18.2m in 2022 but had £120m exceptional item income turning it into £101.8m profit.
What's going on there then?"
Yep, Stoke used creative accounting to (appear to) make the debt go away. Derby County too (possibly even twice?), while the idiot at Sheff Wed tried to do so, but made the schoolboy error of booking the sale in the wrong financial year, meaning that he failed to get the desired benefit:
" As reported by The Athletic, Wednesday were found to have exceeded [their permitted loss] by more than £18 million, despite selling Hillsborough to owner Dejphon Chansiri for £60 million in an attempt to avoid exceeding the limit.
The EFL based their reasoning for imposing the charges on the fact that Wednesday should not have included profits from the sale of Hillsborough Stadium in the club’s financial statements for the period ending in July 2018."
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/news/sheffield-wednesday-named-eur
Anyhow, the point is that the EFL have since closed that particular loophole, so no-one else may now utilise it to massage their debts. | | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 16:25 - Oct 13 with 1471 views | NewBee |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 10:02 - Oct 13 by DejR_vu |
Even more bizarre, is that when the EFL got the big hammer out, art of the club's argument was that the owners were converting debt to equity (i.e. damaging their personal balance sheets, not the club's) which wasn't allowed as a mitigating factor, but formed part of the punishment, weird.
Do the EFL prefer clubs selling the family silver or the owners taking the hit? Until recently, it seemed like the former.
The problem seems to be that they're not cute enough to spot the loopholes, so they're always behind the curve. They're so desperate to prevent smaller clubs prospering at the expense of the bigger clubs, they tie themselves up in knots trying to dress this all up as protection against unscrupulous owners, when they are the real danger to clubs; let pretty much anyone own a club, let them destroy it, then punish the club, rather than the owner, for it. Surely, just let anyone spend what they like, as long as it's not debt against the club. |
"They're so desperate to prevent smaller clubs prospering at the expense of the bigger clubs etc etc"
When you say "they", who do you mean? For when referring to the EFL, you overlook the fact that the league is the clubs, both "big" and "small".
For it is the clubs (i.e. their owners) who vote in the Rules, with the league Executive merely charged with carrying them out.
Perhaps the best example of this is the Fit & Proper Test for club owners. Everyone knows this is not worth the (toilet) paper it's written on, but why does it persist?
Quite simply because everytime a new guy buys a club, it's always done in the knowledge that one day he may need, or choose, to sell it.
In which case he won't want to vote in anything to reduce the pool of potential buyers out there, whether they be war criminals or rapists, or got the purchase money from robbing old ladies' funeral pots etc.
Which is why, so long as there's even a remote possibility he can come up with a cheque which doesn't bounce immediately, that latest chancer aiming to buy Birmingham City is still been given a hearing, instead of being run out of town on a rail at the earliest opportunity. | | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 16:37 - Oct 13 with 1422 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 08:53 - Oct 13 by Third_Division_South |
This graph just shows the difference between well run and poorly run clubs. Watford just a couple of places above us now.Coventry and Luton in last year’s playoff final. Luton now a Premier League club. Vast income certainly helps but good business practice, scouting and coaching can sometimes trump that. |
Agree, but weirdly, there's clearly a positive to going down in some cases. The championship is unforgiving. You cannot afford to have too many players bought with the idea of 'one for the future' - if they're 'for the future' almost by definition, they're not good enough yet. You only need to see posts on this board from people saying we should 'bin' Armstrong, or writing off Kolli to show how both fans and the league itself does not have the patience to wait.
League One and League Two however, are more forgiving. There you can, if you're clever, get cheaper players who you can afford to let develop in your squad hopefully without fear of relegation. Then you can build more sustainably. People constantly say how awful the Champ is, but the reality is that it murders weakness. Just look at us. You cannot just suddenly say 'let's be Luton' or 'let's be Brentford' - all of those clubs on an upswing: Luton, Brentford, Brighton, Cov, Sunderland etc (in years gone by, Swansea, Southampton) rebuilt carefully in the relative safety of a lower league, so that when they got to the Champ (or above) they had good, young players, signed early, so on cheaper wages, already bedded in, believing in the club, with a positive atmosphere about future success.
Not saying we should do that, but it's a route that's been very successful over the last 20 years for a lot of clubs. |  |
| |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 17:02 - Oct 13 with 1373 views | captainmycaptian |
I think the teams ability to win was stuck in a bunker on the 1st | | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 17:39 - Oct 13 with 1311 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 15:53 - Oct 13 by Northernr |
Ground sale to owner, actively encouraged under Shaun Harvey’s reign, since rightly discounted. |
I don't think that's correct mate. The stadium and ground sale are listed in the 2021 column in a specific row. I think the £120m is to do with them writing off debt. Having done a little more reading about it, I don't think that whole £120m has been excluded from FFP but Stoke have 'convinced' (literally the word used in the article) the EFL that they should have more allowable COVID losses than other clubs, getting them back below the threshold.
That would have been for the 2022 accounts though, where they were £60m for a 2 year period - not sure what they lost in 2020.
For 2023 they're still subject to that £60m and still have to submit the 2023 accounts of course, so if they were only above the threshold last year due to specially allowable COVID costs I can't imagine they'll break even this year. But perhaps they will with the Souttar sale.
This whole things stinks to me. Even the asset selling and being allowable under FFP rules - I get that essentially used to be allowed but has since been outlawed but that's surely still a competitive advantage that some clubs have over others that didn't do the same things. So Stoke still have that extra £32m they were allowed to lose more than us for example, it's still in the 3 year period and still will be next year.
So you end up in this situation where different clubs are subject to different rules. Surely to goodness this stuff could be challenged in court? It's literally different rules for different clubs.
What a complete and utter farce. [Post edited 13 Oct 2023 17:41]
| | | |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 17:48 - Oct 13 with 1292 views | Hooping_Mad |
Has Lee Hoo's run out of ideas?
Genuine question. He's reduced the losses to where they are, but if we still operate at a multimillion pound loss every quarter what more is he likely to achieve?
This isn't about singling the man out at all, he did do great work in his first few years and it may just be that his hands are tied by our owners.
This leads me to wonder what the new American investor makes of all of this, I'd love to know why he decided to sign up to a money pit if he didn't have some fresh idea's as to how to run the place.
I feel like we are stuck in one of those Star trek episodes where times keeps looping back and we do it all again, all in the knowledge Dr Frazier Crane is about to appear from a giant space cloud and cause a head on collision.
We need the 2 part special with Leonard Nimoy et al to the rescue. Beam me up. [Post edited 13 Oct 2023 18:32]
| |
| Chairman of the Junior Hoilett appreciation society |
| |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 18:51 - Oct 13 with 1203 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 23:16 - Oct 12 by Northernr |
You've taken one very basic metric, from one year. And even that doesn't look great at all. Everything below us on that graph there is a team in receipt of a parachute payment, a club that has got away with things through significant player sales, or a club that you'd generously class as abysmally run. Or combinations of those three. You've described them as in much worse situations than us - three of them are now in the Premier League, and have stayed up at least one season.
I've shown you my workings, on multiple different problems you'd have on your plate the second you take control of the place having, as I've shown, paid north of £60m just to do that.
Like I say, if anybody was half stupid enough to do it you wouldn't see the current owners for dust. This is currently a bonfire for their money. They'd be shot of it at the first possible opportunity. They can't get rid of it for the reasons I've given.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
While I of course acknowledge and respect your forensic analysis, Northern, I maintain my graphic has some general/qualified validity for the context/point I've extrapolated, and you're conceding some ground here anyway by acknowledging it shows at a minimum some clubs are (even) worse run than ours. However, it's a myth that we're in some kind of financial netherworld of our own, which myth, in my wearied opinion, plays into the hands of those at/around the club who have been driving down expectations for years, using FFP as a catch-all excuse for our general footballing plight and instilling a culture of mediocrity at best.
We also don't know how the present owners might calibrate their contributions to e.g the training ground in the event of a sale. Re the EFL fine, Hoos has made clear (assuming he's not lying) it's been ringfenced by the owners, and while it of course shows up on our balance sheet, we're led to believe it has no impact on transfer recruitment/contracts (and it's not impossible, with more muscular and savvy new and enthused owners, it could be re-negotiated with the EFL, assuming that august institution doesn't changes its rules yet again to allow us to legally re-challenge it).
Neither do I necessarily accept wthat the main factor holding us back is the club's wilful neglect of LR while it f*cks up a variety of studies and approaches for other sites, during which time the opportunities for purchasing land and/or improving stands have been missed or ignored. Even Hoos, I think, said somewhere that Prem clubs are less and less dependent on gate receipts as a key proportion of their income, most of which increasingly comes from Sky/broadcasting fees, sponsorship and related commercial contracts. As the below Soccer Noise study shows, only about 15% of Prem League income in 2021/22 came from gate monies, by contrast with 55% from broadcasting contracts (which do vary from club to club, but not by as much as you might think). Even with an optimally designed new stadium and riding high in the top tier a la 1993/4, it's highly unlikely anyway we'd be drawing in more than average crowds of 22,000 or so - we simply don't have that large a core fanbase. Clubs with similar-sized or significantly smaller grounds than ours (Palace, Burnley, Bournemouth) have made a very decent fist of it in the Prem, and while I don't have their corporate revenue/hospitality figures to hand (perhaps someone else does), I would be highly surprised if their revenue streams were so stratospherically high it catapulted them into another economic universe.
Far more significantly pivotal to our bigger picture is the abject failure of player development, Eze apart, a point you, with commendable sourness, made to Les in your last interview with him. Our historic performance in developing and/or selectively selling on our in-house playing personnel, by comparison with Charlton, Millwall, Brentford and most recently Luton, has been utterly and uncontroversially atrocious for decades. If the likes of Luton, with a ground so inadequate they've had to rebuild a quarter of it (while also planning to move to a new 23K 'Power Court' stadium - sigh!) can reach the big time, that only makes our failings, on- and off-pitch, all the more embarrassing. To reiterate, there is absolutely NO a priori reason why the likes of Fulham, MIllwall and Luton should have left us in their slipstream in the way they have, and it has little or nothing to do with LR or our being somehow peculiarly more financially handicapped than other teams. In whatever proportions, it's down to bad management, bad coaching, bad recruitment, bad squad development, and a lack of standards, quality and accountabiiity.
https://soccernoise.com/how-much-revenue-does-the-english-premier-league-generat
https://worldsoccertalk.com/tv/how-much-each-premier-league-club-earned-in-tv-re
To sum up, in my view, (i) things are certainly not great, but could be a lot worse, on the business side, (ii) the club and some of its adherents have used/are using FFP ad nauseam as a crutch to legitimise our appalling/systemic failings and (iii) we, the fans, going forwards, need to do one hell of a lot more to call this out and start demanding better results rather than wallowing in pessimism (as I, ahem, confess I occasionally enjoy).
In short, it's not primarily that we've been unlucky, mistreated, or infrastructurally hampered. We've been, and continue to be, surreally feckless, amateurish and inept. [Post edited 13 Oct 2023 19:21]
|  |
| |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 19:21 - Oct 13 with 1146 views | Mick_S |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 14:58 - Oct 13 by Mick_S |
Nov - glad to see you are only 0-1 down now on the post votes. Just hang in there and it will be ok. |
0-0 now. Result  | |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
| |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 00:20 - Oct 14 with 1020 views | Nov77 |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 14:58 - Oct 13 by Mick_S |
Nov - glad to see you are only 0-1 down now on the post votes. Just hang in there and it will be ok. |
I know, remarkable isn’t it, i was -10 at one stage! Closing in on rangers -12 goal difference. | |
| |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 00:51 - Oct 14 with 997 views | HAYESBOY |
| Amit’s put club up for sale! on 10:12 - Oct 13 by Northernr |
1 - accidentally stumble into the Premier League.
2 - Selling players. Selling players frequently, for large amounts of money, and investing some of that in other players who themselves can be sold for large amounts of money. The more you do it the more you can spend.
3 - In League One FFP still applies, but any debt converted to equity doesn't count. In th Championship it does. This is the way our owners fund the club so it's a much more favourable environment for us. Both Ipswich and Sunderland went down and used that to build bright, young squads capable of coming back into this league and competing with a few smart additions and loans. Of course you've got to have people at your club intelligent and talented enough to oversee an overhaul, otherwise you look like Derrby, or Bradford.
4 - Rich bloke buys it, ignores the FFP rules, spends £100m on a team, and gets promoted within 18 months before the accounts come out. |
No 4 please. |  |
| Smells like a trout farm in here |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
