| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger 13:54 - Sep 6 with 7275 views | FredManRave |
Said it quite a bit recently, but I'll say it again, the almost immediate effect that this awesome foursome have had on the pitch has surely been better than anybody could have hoped for especially when taking into account their cumulative effect.
Still reading lots about the worry of strength in depth and whilst it's undoubtedly a concern, the flip side is that the longer we have the new recruits on the pitch, the longer the youngsters will gain valuable knowledge from watching (and training!) with them.
In addition, over the last 3/4 games we've been able to bring on the youngsters towards the end of games, enabling them to get valuable first team experience and, hopefully, confidence.
It's been a surprise the way things have started so far this season and could we really, genuinely have expected things to be so, relatively, positive, so soon?
sofa, so good.
Just need to give Willock a run in the team now! Just look at what it's done to the AFKAD! [Post edited 6 Sep 2023 13:59]
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| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 14:25 - Sep 6 with 5768 views | Boston |
...walked into a bar. |  |
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| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 15:08 - Sep 6 with 5608 views | LongsufferingR |
Yes I have to say I never really got the concern about giving the older ones 2 year deals either. I understand the financial implications and the lack of resale value, but even if we do find younger replacements for them for next season, they would still be valuable assets on the bench as back up. |  | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 15:58 - Sep 6 with 5444 views | Kensal_Ranger |
I like it, a lot 👌🏻 |  | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 17:00 - Sep 6 with 5258 views | stevec |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 15:08 - Sep 6 by LongsufferingR |
Yes I have to say I never really got the concern about giving the older ones 2 year deals either. I understand the financial implications and the lack of resale value, but even if we do find younger replacements for them for next season, they would still be valuable assets on the bench as back up. |
Nothing wrong with two year deals for over 30’s.
We similarly built a spine that we didn’t have 3 years ago, think we took something like 45 points from the last 23 games (promotion form) and enough in the first half of the following season that combined would have been enough for 3rd place.
It unravelled largely because Austin was on his last legs (that was spottable at WBA) and Johansen likewise (which was not so easy to predict). What never gets mentioned was the development side wasn’t anywhere near ready to supplement a sustained crack on promotion second half of 2022.
I’m not entirely sure this is any different this season. The oldies are capable, the others show it in fits and starts but Les’s old mates need to up their game lower down the order or we will hit another wall when Cook runs out of steam. On the plus side, Colback, Fox and Bergovic should be able to stay the course this time round.
It’s about time Ramsey and the crew started earning their corn. |  | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 22:25 - Sep 6 with 4842 views | stainrods_elbow |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 17:00 - Sep 6 by stevec |
Nothing wrong with two year deals for over 30’s.
We similarly built a spine that we didn’t have 3 years ago, think we took something like 45 points from the last 23 games (promotion form) and enough in the first half of the following season that combined would have been enough for 3rd place.
It unravelled largely because Austin was on his last legs (that was spottable at WBA) and Johansen likewise (which was not so easy to predict). What never gets mentioned was the development side wasn’t anywhere near ready to supplement a sustained crack on promotion second half of 2022.
I’m not entirely sure this is any different this season. The oldies are capable, the others show it in fits and starts but Les’s old mates need to up their game lower down the order or we will hit another wall when Cook runs out of steam. On the plus side, Colback, Fox and Bergovic should be able to stay the course this time round.
It’s about time Ramsey and the crew started earning their corn. |
Seconded! Too many at QPR have been at the club too long with far too little to show for it. Where are their performance reviews? (Do they even get any?) |  |
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| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 22:44 - Sep 6 with 4827 views | bosh67 |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 17:00 - Sep 6 by stevec |
Nothing wrong with two year deals for over 30’s.
We similarly built a spine that we didn’t have 3 years ago, think we took something like 45 points from the last 23 games (promotion form) and enough in the first half of the following season that combined would have been enough for 3rd place.
It unravelled largely because Austin was on his last legs (that was spottable at WBA) and Johansen likewise (which was not so easy to predict). What never gets mentioned was the development side wasn’t anywhere near ready to supplement a sustained crack on promotion second half of 2022.
I’m not entirely sure this is any different this season. The oldies are capable, the others show it in fits and starts but Les’s old mates need to up their game lower down the order or we will hit another wall when Cook runs out of steam. On the plus side, Colback, Fox and Bergovic should be able to stay the course this time round.
It’s about time Ramsey and the crew started earning their corn. |
Excellent post. |  |
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| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 22:47 - Sep 6 with 4808 views | colinallcars |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 17:00 - Sep 6 by stevec |
Nothing wrong with two year deals for over 30’s.
We similarly built a spine that we didn’t have 3 years ago, think we took something like 45 points from the last 23 games (promotion form) and enough in the first half of the following season that combined would have been enough for 3rd place.
It unravelled largely because Austin was on his last legs (that was spottable at WBA) and Johansen likewise (which was not so easy to predict). What never gets mentioned was the development side wasn’t anywhere near ready to supplement a sustained crack on promotion second half of 2022.
I’m not entirely sure this is any different this season. The oldies are capable, the others show it in fits and starts but Les’s old mates need to up their game lower down the order or we will hit another wall when Cook runs out of steam. On the plus side, Colback, Fox and Bergovic should be able to stay the course this time round.
It’s about time Ramsey and the crew started earning their corn. |
Too true - no one’s saying it's easy but they haven't really come up with much. |  | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 22:48 - Sep 6 with 4812 views | Rangersw12 |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 17:00 - Sep 6 by stevec |
Nothing wrong with two year deals for over 30’s.
We similarly built a spine that we didn’t have 3 years ago, think we took something like 45 points from the last 23 games (promotion form) and enough in the first half of the following season that combined would have been enough for 3rd place.
It unravelled largely because Austin was on his last legs (that was spottable at WBA) and Johansen likewise (which was not so easy to predict). What never gets mentioned was the development side wasn’t anywhere near ready to supplement a sustained crack on promotion second half of 2022.
I’m not entirely sure this is any different this season. The oldies are capable, the others show it in fits and starts but Les’s old mates need to up their game lower down the order or we will hit another wall when Cook runs out of steam. On the plus side, Colback, Fox and Bergovic should be able to stay the course this time round.
It’s about time Ramsey and the crew started earning their corn. |
Kolli and Armstrong seem to be developing well and the under 18s seem to be going in the right direction so "Ramsay and the crew" must be doing something right ! [Post edited 6 Sep 2023 23:14]
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| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 23:09 - Sep 6 with 4774 views | Match82 |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 17:00 - Sep 6 by stevec |
Nothing wrong with two year deals for over 30’s.
We similarly built a spine that we didn’t have 3 years ago, think we took something like 45 points from the last 23 games (promotion form) and enough in the first half of the following season that combined would have been enough for 3rd place.
It unravelled largely because Austin was on his last legs (that was spottable at WBA) and Johansen likewise (which was not so easy to predict). What never gets mentioned was the development side wasn’t anywhere near ready to supplement a sustained crack on promotion second half of 2022.
I’m not entirely sure this is any different this season. The oldies are capable, the others show it in fits and starts but Les’s old mates need to up their game lower down the order or we will hit another wall when Cook runs out of steam. On the plus side, Colback, Fox and Bergovic should be able to stay the course this time round.
It’s about time Ramsey and the crew started earning their corn. |
"It’s about time Ramsey and the crew started earning their corn"
Counterpoint: Ramsey helped identify and then oversaw the development of Eze |  | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 23:59 - Sep 6 with 4702 views | SydneyRs |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 23:09 - Sep 6 by Match82 |
"It’s about time Ramsey and the crew started earning their corn"
Counterpoint: Ramsey helped identify and then oversaw the development of Eze |
Also BOS and Manning and Willock. Wasn't Ramsey's fault that we didn't get decent money for them, or won't in the case of WIllock. | | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 07:32 - Sep 7 with 4490 views | stevec |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 23:59 - Sep 6 by SydneyRs |
Also BOS and Manning and Willock. Wasn't Ramsey's fault that we didn't get decent money for them, or won't in the case of WIllock. |
Possibly, but I thought BOS was an established favourite in the Blackpool first team rather than a development player at our place. At 27 years old, I’m not entirely sure Manning’s development was under the auspices of the regime in place for the last 8 years either.
Armstrong we can identify with this regime, that’s fair enough. Kolli very early days and there’s a few others who may step up in the next year or so but it’s scant return for eight years work. | | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 12:45 - Sep 7 with 4201 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 23:09 - Sep 6 by Match82 |
"It’s about time Ramsey and the crew started earning their corn"
Counterpoint: Ramsey helped identify and then oversaw the development of Eze |
Whilst I don't subscribe to the original point about Ramsey, your counterpoint is somewhat misleading. Eze wasn't developed at QPR from childhood, he joined at the age of 18, having previously been let go by Arsenal, Fulham, Reading and Millwall. Ramsey can some credit for identifying Eze at his trial but he was developed by Gareth whilst on loan at Wycombe, and then Holloway/McClaren on his return to QPR. |  | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 12:50 - Sep 7 with 4174 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 22:48 - Sep 6 by Rangersw12 |
Kolli and Armstrong seem to be developing well and the under 18s seem to be going in the right direction so "Ramsay and the crew" must be doing something right ! [Post edited 6 Sep 2023 23:14]
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Let's not get carried away. There are some encouraging signs with the emergence of Armstrong and, to a lesser degree, Kolli, SDM, Dixon-Bonner and Drewe. However, it's been a long time coming and, Armstrong aside, they're still a long way from being established first team players. | | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 13:03 - Sep 7 with 4125 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 23:59 - Sep 6 by SydneyRs |
Also BOS and Manning and Willock. Wasn't Ramsey's fault that we didn't get decent money for them, or won't in the case of WIllock. |
BOS was developed by Blackpool and joined QPR as a pro at the age of 20.
Willock was developed by Arsenal and Benfica before embarking on loan spells with WBA and Huddersfield. He joined QPR as a pro at the age of 22.
Manning was signed by Harry Redknapp at the age of 19 and then overlooked by Chris Ramsey and Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink when they were manager. He was eventually handed his chance by Ian Holloway before being loaned out to Rotherham.
In short, none of these players were developed by Ramsey or his team. [Post edited 7 Sep 2023 13:09]
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| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 13:46 - Sep 7 with 4052 views | SydneyRs |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 13:03 - Sep 7 by Benny_the_Ball |
BOS was developed by Blackpool and joined QPR as a pro at the age of 20.
Willock was developed by Arsenal and Benfica before embarking on loan spells with WBA and Huddersfield. He joined QPR as a pro at the age of 22.
Manning was signed by Harry Redknapp at the age of 19 and then overlooked by Chris Ramsey and Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink when they were manager. He was eventually handed his chance by Ian Holloway before being loaned out to Rotherham.
In short, none of these players were developed by Ramsey or his team. [Post edited 7 Sep 2023 13:09]
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All of them became much better players than when they arrived while with us, so we must have been doing something right. | | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 13:47 - Sep 7 with 4037 views | Benny_the_Ball |
There appears to be an unhealthy fascination with offering 2 year deals to over-30s because of the eventual demise of Austin and Johansen. The simple truth is it depends on the player. Some keep themselves fit and can play at a high level well into their 30s (e.g. Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Young, Sheringham) whilst others are less health conscious or suffer serious injuries, and therefore tail off earlier (e.g. Rooney, Owen, Austin).
Much also depends on the player's position and whether they're prepared to adapt their game as they get older. Generally speaking, it's easier to organically extend your career as a goalkeeper or central defender, particularly if your strength is reading of the game. Conversely, midfielders and forwards need to adapt to extend their careers. Forwards who ran at players from deep in their youth may adapt to out-and-out strikers who operate purely in and around the penalty area. Midfielders in the 8 role will lose their ability to go box-to-box as they get older and likely move to a holding role. Indeed, our own Jack Colback is benefitting by playing the holding role alongside Sam Field. This, in turn, has freed up Dozzell to move further forward and we're starting to see what the latter is capable of.
Given the choice, I'd rather offer contracts to consummate professionals like Cook and Colback than younger but more fragile players like Richards and JCS. This is why Smyth is such a breath of fresh air. Not only is he performing well but his attitude is first class.
In any event, our current financial situation dictates that needs must. With the Eze revenue due to fall off the FFP books next year, this season QPR need to retain their championship status on a limited budget. Once the FFP accounts are balanced then the board and senior management can consider an alternative strategy. | | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 13:50 - Sep 7 with 4018 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 13:46 - Sep 7 by SydneyRs |
All of them became much better players than when they arrived while with us, so we must have been doing something right. |
Yes, but not because of Ramsey and the development team (which was the point you were making earlier). They came to QPR as adults and improved either on loan or in the first team. [Post edited 8 Sep 2023 14:33]
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| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 15:28 - Sep 7 with 3871 views | francisbowles |
In the best traditions of 'suit my narrative' and 'it's all Chris Ramsey's fault', it's being 'overlooked' that Eze was with us in the development squad for over a year before he made his league debut at WW under GA. During this period he had 18 minutes of an FA cup tie before having to come off due to 'injury'.
So from Millwall 'cast off' to 'tearing up' League 2, suggests that in that interim period Ramsey and his team did help to develope EE into a professional footballer. | | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 16:04 - Sep 7 with 3829 views | Northernr |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 12:50 - Sep 7 by Benny_the_Ball |
Let's not get carried away. There are some encouraging signs with the emergence of Armstrong and, to a lesser degree, Kolli, SDM, Dixon-Bonner and Drewe. However, it's been a long time coming and, Armstrong aside, they're still a long way from being established first team players. |
But by the same token let's also not get carried away with the impact a couple of 30-somethings have made in three or four games. Long winter ahead. Cook is already injured.
Maybe if last season taught us all anything it's best to let things play out and not rush to snap judgements. This time last year we were about to stick eight wins on the board in a dozen games and go top of the league.
Also, it's fans forum in two weeks, and we know how things usually go after one of those!
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 23:25 - Sep 7 with 3539 views | numptydumpty |
Last season, the average age was very young.
In anything it is all about balance.
Was said last season there were no obvious leaders.
Seems currently we have that but yes looks good for last few games but let's get a couple of months down the line before we say this new model is more successful.
Early days [Post edited 7 Sep 2023 23:26]
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| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 00:08 - Sep 8 with 3517 views | loftupper |
I wonder how long it takes to setup a decent development process when pretty much starting from scratch. Then how quickly that development process can start producing players. Obviously if you are picking up youngsters that will be a five to ten year process, so we should start to see players coming through now, which I believe we are. | | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 00:48 - Sep 8 with 3497 views | californiahoop |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 07:32 - Sep 7 by stevec |
Possibly, but I thought BOS was an established favourite in the Blackpool first team rather than a development player at our place. At 27 years old, I’m not entirely sure Manning’s development was under the auspices of the regime in place for the last 8 years either.
Armstrong we can identify with this regime, that’s fair enough. Kolli very early days and there’s a few others who may step up in the next year or so but it’s scant return for eight years work. |
Manning was part of this set up, it would appear like we have learned our lesson with the recruiting of development players, only a couple from the prem.
I like the CB from Stevenage and the lad from Maidenhead plus, another kid from non league on trial.
Ramsey appears to be developing players that are first team squad ready, well done to him. | | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 07:05 - Sep 8 with 3340 views | Hastings_Hoops |
Excuse my ignorance, but haven’t Armstrong and Koli come straight through from Furlong’s u18’s? |  | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 07:16 - Sep 8 with 3333 views | Northernr |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 07:05 - Sep 8 by Hastings_Hoops |
Excuse my ignorance, but haven’t Armstrong and Koli come straight through from Furlong’s u18’s? |
Micah Hyde's U18s, as I was corrected on a week or so back. | | | |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 07:24 - Sep 8 with 3307 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| The Cook, The Fox, The Smyth and Our Ginger on 15:28 - Sep 7 by francisbowles |
In the best traditions of 'suit my narrative' and 'it's all Chris Ramsey's fault', it's being 'overlooked' that Eze was with us in the development squad for over a year before he made his league debut at WW under GA. During this period he had 18 minutes of an FA cup tie before having to come off due to 'injury'.
So from Millwall 'cast off' to 'tearing up' League 2, suggests that in that interim period Ramsey and his team did help to develope EE into a professional footballer. |
Agreed.
He has also praised Ramsey, Impey and Hall on numerous occasions for improving/developing him. |  |
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