| SCOTLAND 02:12 - Sep 18 with 10946 views | SonofNorfolt |
BTW
NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
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| SCOTLAND on 11:34 - Sep 18 with 1168 views | TacticalR |
| SCOTLAND on 11:17 - Sep 18 by Clive_Anderson |
I sometimes wonder how exactly your brain works. Not very logically is my conclusion. |
Perhaps.
For my part I have always found your posts about politics to be 'a strange mix of naivety and cynicism' (to use phrase that was once aptly applied to Tony Benn). |  |
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| SCOTLAND on 11:45 - Sep 18 with 1135 views | Clive_Anderson |
| SCOTLAND on 11:34 - Sep 18 by TacticalR |
Perhaps.
For my part I have always found your posts about politics to be 'a strange mix of naivety and cynicism' (to use phrase that was once aptly applied to Tony Benn). |
And I'd say that you're so sure that your beliefs lead to a better world that you have to assume that anyone disagreeing is mad, evil or stupid. The idea that people having more freedom from centralisation could possibly help the worst off is not one that has ever crossed your mind.
Rather than trying to be clever and coming up with a dodgy example from 30 years ago, how's about considering whether Labour would be so opposed to Scottish independence if they voted Tory instead of for them. |  | | |
| SCOTLAND on 12:05 - Sep 18 with 1097 views | Aitch |
So, if Scotland ends up outside the EU will there be a quota on their football players playing in England? |  |
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| SCOTLAND on 13:16 - Sep 18 with 1001 views | PhilmyRs |
Scotland is its own country, voting overwhelmingly against a political party, yet having that party effectively leading them would annoy most people. However, to say they always get governments they don’t vote for is a blatant lie. We had a Labour government for years FFS, and I think there’s a good chance we’ll have another one again soon too. Whenever we’ve have had a so called right-wing Tory government (Thatcher and to a lesser extent Cameron) it’s been because the opposition parties have been so feeble. There simply has not been an alternative. England didn’t just become a country that doesn’t care about fairness, and one that turn its back on those in need. It just didn’t want to vote for an old man in a white coat calling for unilateral nuclear disarmament in the height of the cold war! Any credible alternative would have been elected.
For Scotland to rip up everything that’s been achieved, all the work we’ve done together, so they can ‘go it alone’, would be a big mistake. Throughout the campaign I’ve supported the No vote. I’ve wanted Scotland to remain part of the Union, to work with us and to continue our 300 year allegiance which is respected the world over. But over the last few weeks I’ve been amazed at how many Scots have been sucked into believing that Scotland is some kind of economic powerhouse, a centre left progressive country that given the chance will create a society that will be the envy of the world. Everything’s been about what they can do given the chance, not about how they’ll be able to do it.
It’s easy to challenge the status quo. You can promise the world, always questioning and criticising those in power. But when you’re in charge, when you have to make the tough decisions — fund free prescriptions, tuition fees, maintain a military capability, conduct emergency monetary operations — the grass isn’t always greener.
Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland have achieved so much together, they have so much more influence together, they are so much more respected throughout the world, together. The National Health Service wasn’t a SNP invention, it was thought up by the UK government and implemented by the UK government. In fact (from memory) it was the brain child of a Welshman. It was an example of all talents from the home nations coming together and producing something that was the envy of the industrialised world. For the SNP to now project themselves as the saviours of the NHS is a fcking disgrace.
In a world of economic uncertainty and continued world conflict, surely staying together would have been the right thing to do. Not enough has happened for Scotland to break up a 300 year relationship. A No vote would have seen additional powers going to Scotland, enabling the Scots to have even more power. Change would have happened whilst remaining united, not as an independent country.
If they do go, I’m sure Scotland will remain a friend, I personally have family over there so will always value what they’ve given us over the years, but make no mistake, they would no longer be part of the family. Every decision taken by the UK Government should be in the interests of the English, Welsh and Northern Irish people that it represents. No favourable separation terms, no ‘currency deals’.
Bluff and scaremongering were the terms used by Salmond throughout the campaign. Rather than have a plan B he persuaded the Scottish people that the UK Parliament were lying and will change their minds following a Yes vote. There may well end up being a currency pack, but if there is, I’m sure Trident won’t be going anywhere for a long time to come.
Promises get broken by people in power and deals get made, let’s see fat Alex explain that one to the Scottish people. Whether the No or Yes camp win, Scotland has been changed forever, unfortunately my view of Scotland has changed as well. | | | |
| SCOTLAND on 13:25 - Sep 18 with 980 views | Monahoop |
What if it is a draw? Absolute level pegging. Will there be extra time or a penalty shoot out? |  |
| There aint half been some clever bastards. |
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| SCOTLAND on 13:35 - Sep 18 with 955 views | TheBlob |
| SCOTLAND on 13:25 - Sep 18 by Monahoop |
What if it is a draw? Absolute level pegging. Will there be extra time or a penalty shoot out? |
I have it in writing that it's between Salmond and Darling who can piss up a wall the highest. |  |
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| SCOTLAND on 13:36 - Sep 18 with 950 views | Snipper |
| SCOTLAND on 11:16 - Sep 18 by BlackCrowe |
I would love echo that sentiment of never going again, but I'm off to the Ryder Cup next week. Does that make me a slag? I think it does. |
If it's a yes, does that mean that the British Open golf will only be held on English courses from 2017? |  | | |
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| SCOTLAND on 13:39 - Sep 18 with 937 views | CiderwithRsie |
| SCOTLAND on 08:54 - Sep 18 by kropotkin41 |
I don't want to get into a massive row about this because next to some questions Scottish independence is pretty trivial really.
To be honest, I hope the Scots vote yes just so that they stick their fingers up at all the knee-jerk Unionist twonks, self-identifying "British", and scaremongers who'd rather argue that all change is dangerous than actually try a different road.
The politics of Eeyore pretty much dominates this forum. |
Krop, I like that "politics of Eeyore" line, but I really can't see anything positive in parochial nationalism for any country. I don't get why it's bad to self-identify as British but great to self-identify as Scottish. I don't get why it's bad to slag off East Europeans [which it is] but OK to slag off Londoners. I don't get why Little Englanders are bad but Little Scotlanders are good. Bad to blame your problems on foreigners but fine to blame them on a freely elected parliament.
And I don't buy the idea that the SNP is on the side of ordinary people vs the elites, any more than I do for UKIP; have you noticed just how pally Alec Salmond is with Donald Trump? I note that Genial Rupert Murdoch seems pretty pleased with the idea of Scotland putting two fingers up to the "Westminster elite" - but then Westminster blocked his BSkyB bid, which Salmond was busy lobbying for. [I can't get the link to work, but try googling Ian Dunt's piece in politics.co.uk on Alec Salmond's right wing backers - Alec Salmond + News International will bring it up. The pieces by Ian Dunt and Justine Brian there make the progressive case for the union far better than I ever could.]
Unionism, whether it's a trade union, the United Kingdom or dare I say the European Union, needn't be the politics of Eeyore, it should be the politics of coming together to overcome problems. | | | |
| SCOTLAND on 13:41 - Sep 18 with 929 views | AgedR |
| SCOTLAND on 11:28 - Sep 18 by ElHoop |
We've got our own whisky now anyway. It's meant to be good:
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I've tasted it.
It's ok, but, not a favourite.
And not likely to be if I can get duty free numb numb by popping over to Gretna Green |  |
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| SCOTLAND on 13:45 - Sep 18 with 916 views | simmo |
| SCOTLAND on 13:39 - Sep 18 by CiderwithRsie |
Krop, I like that "politics of Eeyore" line, but I really can't see anything positive in parochial nationalism for any country. I don't get why it's bad to self-identify as British but great to self-identify as Scottish. I don't get why it's bad to slag off East Europeans [which it is] but OK to slag off Londoners. I don't get why Little Englanders are bad but Little Scotlanders are good. Bad to blame your problems on foreigners but fine to blame them on a freely elected parliament.
And I don't buy the idea that the SNP is on the side of ordinary people vs the elites, any more than I do for UKIP; have you noticed just how pally Alec Salmond is with Donald Trump? I note that Genial Rupert Murdoch seems pretty pleased with the idea of Scotland putting two fingers up to the "Westminster elite" - but then Westminster blocked his BSkyB bid, which Salmond was busy lobbying for. [I can't get the link to work, but try googling Ian Dunt's piece in politics.co.uk on Alec Salmond's right wing backers - Alec Salmond + News International will bring it up. The pieces by Ian Dunt and Justine Brian there make the progressive case for the union far better than I ever could.]
Unionism, whether it's a trade union, the United Kingdom or dare I say the European Union, needn't be the politics of Eeyore, it should be the politics of coming together to overcome problems. |
Good post and interesting article
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/09/15/the-right-wing-business-tycoons-behin |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| SCOTLAND on 13:49 - Sep 18 with 908 views | CiderwithRsie |
| SCOTLAND on 10:12 - Sep 18 by willis1980 |
scotland isnt the leftie love-in you think it is, only marginally less people voted for the tories than did the snp.
you cant expect them to put up with right wing governments?? Have i missed something here? The same party that is behind the "yes" campaign is the SNP with some of the most right wing policies since thatcher! |
There was an academic from a Scottish university on Radio 4 the other day saying that on all social attitudes surveys - attitudes to immigration, gay marriage, benefits or whatever - there's virtually no difference between Scots and English. But she did say Scots *think* they are more tolerant [much like Northerners in my experience.] Probably because they've all been told that everyone south of the Humber is an Old Etonian and have never actually been there themselves.
My Scottish mother-in-law gets the ScottishSunday Post, and it makes the Sun look like the Grauniad.
Weren't the SNP nick-named Tartan Tories at one time? | | | |
| SCOTLAND on 14:30 - Sep 18 with 847 views | onlyrinmoray |
I went down to vote this morning A YES representative was standing outside So I asked him a question that hasn't been mentioned on the news or media "If Scotland becomes independent will I still be able to cross the border to watch QPR " He said" well after seeing your teams performance on Sunday Im sorry to say you will be able to"
So I voted NO  |  | | |
| SCOTLAND on 14:33 - Sep 18 with 840 views | robith |
Even by the river dredging quality of political debate in modern Britain, the calibre of discourse in this campaign has been pitiful
Yes seems to to just ignore every major flaw and mistake dissatisfaction with the current situation for extrapolating it forever
No (while obviously at a rhetorical disadvantage) has just relied on fear. In fact until Brown stepped up to the plate yesterday, the only real attempt at coherency was Cameron delivering the pleading I can change apology of a 17 year old being dumped by the girl that gave him his first handie |  | | |
| SCOTLAND on 14:35 - Sep 18 with 837 views | simmo |
| SCOTLAND on 14:30 - Sep 18 by onlyrinmoray |
I went down to vote this morning A YES representative was standing outside So I asked him a question that hasn't been mentioned on the news or media "If Scotland becomes independent will I still be able to cross the border to watch QPR " He said" well after seeing your teams performance on Sunday Im sorry to say you will be able to"
So I voted NO |
Just read that apparently up to 8% of voters will vote incorrectly after being confused about the difference between voting 'Yes' or 'No'.
I.E. 'Yes' i want to stay as part of Britain
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| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| SCOTLAND on 15:53 - Sep 18 with 758 views | billericaydicky |
Looks like it will be a No - shame really as I'd like to see the Scots go it alone and see what happens.
It's a shame the main Westminster politicians had to go to Scotland and bribe them with the promise of reforms, which of course will be funded largely by the English taxpayer - and will probably cost us much more than the currently discredited Barnett Formula.
At least we are finally getting some decent debate south of the border over the 'West Lothian question' as well as how much we subsidise the Scots by each year - eye opening when you see the numbers. |  | | |
| SCOTLAND on 15:58 - Sep 18 with 750 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
A lot of economists, politicians, and philosophers on here today.
Do you do your ranting on the clock or during you meal break at the UN? |  | | |
| SCOTLAND on 16:07 - Sep 18 with 738 views | DWQPR |
Have they gone yet? | |
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| SCOTLAND on 16:12 - Sep 18 with 730 views | paulparker |
| SCOTLAND on 15:58 - Sep 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
A lot of economists, politicians, and philosophers on here today.
Do you do your ranting on the clock or during you meal break at the UN? |
no its mainly called an opinion , when people have debates or discuss current affairs they normally have them, no different to discussing things over a pint with friends/acquaintances in the pub , difference here its on a MB
haven't seen any rants on this subject so I don't know what your point is ? |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| SCOTLAND on 16:24 - Sep 18 with 715 views | londonscottish |
Well I'm up in Edinburgh today and it's funny to see how people are trying hard not to display their allegiances but just can't help themselves. Myself included.
Just seen the poll in the Standard giving the No vote a six point lead.
Just showed that to my English mate at the airport much to the annoyance of the hairy fella sitting next to us.
I guess he's one of those people who think that Braveheart was a documentary and that William Wallace was a four foot high anti-Semitic Aussie. [Post edited 18 Sep 2014 16:41]
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| SCOTLAND on 16:30 - Sep 18 with 704 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| SCOTLAND on 16:12 - Sep 18 by paulparker |
no its mainly called an opinion , when people have debates or discuss current affairs they normally have them, no different to discussing things over a pint with friends/acquaintances in the pub , difference here its on a MB
haven't seen any rants on this subject so I don't know what your point is ? |
Opinions are great.
But have a read through . Some of them are hilarious.
'I bumped into a Scottish tramp outside Euston, I didn't give him a pound so he pissed YES onto the wall so I think they'll vote YES' | | | |
| SCOTLAND on 16:32 - Sep 18 with 699 views | karl |
I voted this morning too.
Couple of points; the age group 16-24 yr old have consistently been a narrow No vote in all the polls so whatever happens it cannot be blamed on their 'idealism' skewing the vote.
It has been only mentioned in passing about Shetland and Orkney separating from Scotland, I did see last night that our joint MP, Alastair Carmichael, had raised the point again but there has been no open honest debate about it to my knowledge. |  | | |
| SCOTLAND on 16:34 - Sep 18 with 696 views | SomersetHoops |
The Scots already get more of the national money cake per head than any other region and who knows what has been promised to keep them on board. I think it will be a shame for historic reasons , but we in England and Wales may actually be better off without them.
If they split It would end the ridiculous situation where Scottish MP's vote on internal English and Welsh issues, when MP's can't vote in Westminster on those issues in Scotland because they are devolved to the Scottish parliament.
It might also make our politicians realise with our reduced size that their posturing and wasting loads of money pretending we are a world power needs to end and we should only spend our national income in our own interest rather than in the interest of America.
On the whole although I have nothing against the Scots, I hope they decide to go it alone. In any case if the yes people lose to a close vote they will want to have another go in a couple of years, so best to get it out of the way now. |  |
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| SCOTLAND on 16:37 - Sep 18 with 688 views | TheBlob |
Why do lefties always sound as if they're reading from a prepared statement? | |
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| SCOTLAND on 16:38 - Sep 18 with 682 views | CiderwithRsie |
| SCOTLAND on 16:37 - Sep 18 by TheBlob |
Why do lefties always sound as if they're reading from a prepared statement? |
"Cos they can read? | | | |
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