| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... 13:58 - May 9 with 106168 views | hubble |
..posted by a good friend of mine on Facebook, thought I'd share it on here. He's a former professional footballer (briefly for Birmingham City) and a former copper, working mainly out of Camden police station. He grew up in Kilburn/Queens Park. He's now a writer (among other things).
Worth a read I think, hope you enjoy, whether you agree with him or not, even when he veers off-topic...
"Thoughts of the Week (part 1)
Let’s start with a subheading. ‘Dear, oh dear Diane Abbot!’
In the upcoming General Election campaign and apart from the ‘Leader’ (no, not Gary Glitter) no one is more important for the Labour Party campaign than the Shadow Home Secretary. Why’s this? You ask.
The reason is obvious: Theresa May —the strong woman, Ms subtle, but steely - was the former Home Secretary. A position which she used to inflict near terminal ravages of the nation’s police forces. Under her auspices we saw numbers cut, benefits cut and police stations closed willy-nilly to cash in, short-term, on the booming (especially in London) property market.
The short-sightedness of this policy is astounding. No matter the so-called austerity budget (which only seems to apply to the working classes, while the privileged elite continue to live the life of Riley) the question must be asked as to what will happen when there’s some serious social unrest — and you can feel it stirring. Remember 2011 when the riots broke out? We had anarchy and nihilism on the streets and the police force didn’t cope with it at all. Instead we had a grand mopping up campaign. Suddenly all those poor silly students who had been demonised as hard-core criminals after they smashed the windows of the Tory HQ — and received ridiculously harsh prison sentences for what were in the main first offences - were kicked out of the pokey and replaced by the new batch of rioters. The Criminal Justice system ground to a halt, the prison’s overflowed. The courts were as ram-jam packed as a back-in-the-day David Rodigan dance. In response what did the great Theresa May do? She further decimated the police force. She did the same to the prison service. The vaunted Border Force, our first defence, is comically short of manpower and morale as they attempt to hire staff on Mickey-Mouse contracts. Labour should be slaughtering Theresa May on what she’s done. Instead we got that car crash of an interview on LBC.
To be honest I resisted calls to listen to it for a time. Some of my more right-leaning pals were raving about it, but I thought they were overreacting due to a general contempt for the Hackney MP. I was wrong. When I actually got round to listening to it I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. It was stunningly incompetent, mind-blowingly nonsensical, embarrassing and shocking. Is this the Shadow Home Secretary who’s going to lead the challenge to Theresa May’s record? She should have stood down immediately and if not the great leader should have forced her hand, no matter past rendezvous in the sack. Of course it didn’t happen and Labour under Jeremy Corbyn has no hope in this election. What a shame it all is because there are loads of issues that they should be taking the government to task on. Just look at that bumbling Tommy Cooper impersonator of a Foreign Secretary, a million miles removed from a serious statesman: Mr Retraction — an embarrassment to the nation.
I’m voting Labour in the coming election, but not for Jeremy, more for the thought of the millions of people who are going to suffer under the coming five years of Tory rule: the working men and women who haven’t seen their wages rise, in real terms, for the last thirty years, while the fat cats, sharks and speculators are minted; the students starting out life saddled with debt; the millions who’ll never be able to afford a home; and in honour of the National Health Service, soon to be dismantled further, but remaining the brightest light in the nation’s modern history. What a rotten, unfair and unbalanced society we’ve become.
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:32 - May 28 with 1577 views | TGRRRSSS |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:26 - May 28 by BazzaInTheLoft |
At the risk of taking your insulting bullshit seriously....
Some people love their country by singing Ten German Bombers in European cities and throwing plastic chairs at foreign Cafe owners.
Some people love their country by bombing 50 shades of shit out of another one against all advice and low likelihood of success.
Some people love their country by getting on, paying their taxes and obeying the law in both spirit and letter. [Post edited 28 May 2017 11:28]
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But those people ( the ten German bombers thing will not be in with a shout of running this country so thats totally irrelevant.
As I am sure your well aware. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:39 - May 28 with 1543 views | TacticalR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:32 - May 28 by TGRRRSSS |
But those people ( the ten German bombers thing will not be in with a shout of running this country so thats totally irrelevant.
As I am sure your well aware. |
Rogan Taylor, Chairman of the Football Supporters' Association, interviewed some hoolies at the Euros in West Germany in 1988.
Taylor: 'Aren't you embarrassed that the world looks at us and thinks what a bunch of scum? Mrs. Thatcher is constantly pointing this out'.
Hoolie: 'Mrs. Thatcher handbags 'em in Brussels, we handbag 'em on the streets'.  |  |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:40 - May 28 with 1556 views | DWQPR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:28 - May 28 by TacticalR |
A note on Fallon from our former man in Uzbekistan:
'I enjoyed, as much as anybody, Emily Thornberry’s ambush of Michael Fallon over his past cultivation of Assad. It is notable that the media themselves have interviewed Fallon continually during this election — he has been put out as May’s deflector shield — and no member of the media has ever mentioned it to him. Contrast that with the media’s treatment of Labour and SNP politicians.
I remember back further into Fallon’s past. 32 years ago, when I was the young occupant of the South Africa (Political) desk in the FCO, Fallon was a positive enthusiast for apartheid. Together with fellow St Andrews extreme Tory ideologue Michael Forsyth, Fallon was among those stiffening Thatcher in opposing all international sanctions against the apartheid regime, and opposing all British government interventions in individual cases of human rights abuse. I recall him arguing that apartheid South Africa had the "rule of law" and we should not interfere in its internal affairs.'
Giving Up on Honesty
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/05/giving-up-on-honesty/ |
I have a couple of South African friends, cape coloureds, and they still have their families in South Africa, they have told me on more than a few ocassions that the corruption and human rights abuses going on in South Africa now are far worse than ever it was under apartheid. The ANC has badly failed its own people and things are getting steadily worse. The general populace is starting to turn and they very much fear a second Zimbabwe.
On another note how anybody can 'enjoy' Emily 'White Van' Thornberry in any shape must need a labotomy. |  |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:41 - May 28 with 1553 views | johncharles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:22 - May 28 by essextaxiboy |
You speak of borrowing as if there were no.payments to be made , no.interest however low to be paid ..
How much do you think it will cost to take back those industries , to assume the pension liabilities and to invest in new technology . Then keep.costs.down for.the consumer who has no.alternative supplier
This on top of giving unions more power , how long do you think.it will take them to.realise that they have us over a barrel and start turning the lights out again ?
Labour does not understand money , how to make it , how to use it , how to save it |
After seven years of Tory cut backs and austerity, selling off national assets such as Royal Mail, the deficit is larger than when they took over.
And you're telling me Labour doesn't understand money ??  [Post edited 28 May 2017 14:48]
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| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:54 - May 28 with 1518 views | TacticalR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:40 - May 28 by DWQPR |
I have a couple of South African friends, cape coloureds, and they still have their families in South Africa, they have told me on more than a few ocassions that the corruption and human rights abuses going on in South Africa now are far worse than ever it was under apartheid. The ANC has badly failed its own people and things are getting steadily worse. The general populace is starting to turn and they very much fear a second Zimbabwe.
On another note how anybody can 'enjoy' Emily 'White Van' Thornberry in any shape must need a labotomy. |
Yes, if Corbyn is going to drag us back to the 70s with his nationalisation schemes I don't see why we shouldn't go the whole hog and bring back apartheid as well. | |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:56 - May 28 with 1528 views | TGRRRSSS |
With regards to South Africa I saw a interview (not really much was made of the comments) from Springboks star Bryan Habana who now plays for Toulon in France, he'd indicated that whenm asked if he'd return to SA he said that for the future of his family he felt not, it simply wasnt safe anymore and crime is totally out of control.
Thats from a wealthy guy who could probably afford the best security out there. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:59 - May 28 with 1524 views | TGRRRSSS |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 19:30 - May 26 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
But Labour are the only ones saying they will do anything about them |
Which is worse when they then subsequently fail to do so. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 15:04 - May 28 with 1526 views | LythamR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 14:22 - May 28 by essextaxiboy |
You speak of borrowing as if there were no.payments to be made , no.interest however low to be paid ..
How much do you think it will cost to take back those industries , to assume the pension liabilities and to invest in new technology . Then keep.costs.down for.the consumer who has no.alternative supplier
This on top of giving unions more power , how long do you think.it will take them to.realise that they have us over a barrel and start turning the lights out again ?
Labour does not understand money , how to make it , how to use it , how to save it |
"You speak of borrowing as if there were no.payments to be made , no.interest however low to be paid"
No i didnt
i quite clearly said
borrowing is effective provided there is an identified return on investment which can be reasonably achieved
you obviously chose not to read it |  | | |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:12 - May 28 with 1469 views | 1BobbyHazell |
Now we have Tories attempting to provide evidence to support a man's views that apartheid was a good thing.
Jesus f*cking Christ. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:23 - May 28 with 1457 views | DannytheR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:12 - May 28 by 1BobbyHazell |
Now we have Tories attempting to provide evidence to support a man's views that apartheid was a good thing.
Jesus f*cking Christ. |
Yeah, I think this is a bit of a low even by that poster's standards. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:25 - May 28 with 1456 views | essextaxiboy |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 15:04 - May 28 by LythamR |
"You speak of borrowing as if there were no.payments to be made , no.interest however low to be paid"
No i didnt
i quite clearly said
borrowing is effective provided there is an identified return on investment which can be reasonably achieved
you obviously chose not to read it |
I read it , you did type "reasonably achieved"
I translated that into Labour fag packet economics and got "leave it to the next generation to deal with" [Post edited 28 May 2017 16:37]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:43 - May 28 with 1429 views | easthertsr |
This is all a bit rich coming from a party whose manifesto is shall we say a bit sketchy when it comes to costings! | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:45 - May 28 with 1425 views | DannytheR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:25 - May 28 by essextaxiboy |
I read it , you did type "reasonably achieved"
I translated that into Labour fag packet economics and got "leave it to the next generation to deal with" [Post edited 28 May 2017 16:37]
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"leave it to the next generation to deal with"
Isn't that your approach though? "You're responsible for you, I'm responsible for me" and all that?
You didn't have much concern for the younger generation earlier this week, essex... [Post edited 28 May 2017 16:47]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:53 - May 28 with 1411 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:45 - May 28 by DannytheR |
"leave it to the next generation to deal with"
Isn't that your approach though? "You're responsible for you, I'm responsible for me" and all that?
You didn't have much concern for the younger generation earlier this week, essex... [Post edited 28 May 2017 16:47]
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Yes that was what he said |  |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:13 - May 28 with 1392 views | essextaxiboy |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:45 - May 28 by DannytheR |
"leave it to the next generation to deal with"
Isn't that your approach though? "You're responsible for you, I'm responsible for me" and all that?
You didn't have much concern for the younger generation earlier this week, essex... [Post edited 28 May 2017 16:47]
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I think you know that we were talking then in the context of social care and inheritance .
We were talking about our immediate families and whether the state should pick up the tab for our care while our children retained their full inheritance .
This is about the national debt , relating to future taxation and the wealth of the nation . | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:20 - May 28 with 1385 views | easthertsr |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:13 - May 28 by essextaxiboy |
I think you know that we were talking then in the context of social care and inheritance .
We were talking about our immediate families and whether the state should pick up the tab for our care while our children retained their full inheritance .
This is about the national debt , relating to future taxation and the wealth of the nation . |
Cop out | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:27 - May 28 with 1363 views | essextaxiboy |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:20 - May 28 by easthertsr |
Cop out |
Page 7 | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:30 - May 28 with 1358 views | MrSheen |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 01:47 - May 28 by DannytheR |
Which, the bit about them wanting to subjugate the non-believer? No, of course, subjugation of the non-believer is what they're all about. Although it's worth remembering that they include in that the vast number of Muslims who aren't strict enough to satisfy their interpretation of Islam. Despite the atrocities visited on the Yazidi and western captives, the vast majority of people killed by ISIS have been other Muslims.
Their initial goal was to take as much land in Syria and Iraq as possible, aided in part by western recruits to who they happily painted western foreign policy and society in general as being indiscriminately anti-Muslim. Now, with the Iraqi Army (more Muslims) having actually "got tough" with them on the ground, they've lost huge amounts of territory and so are now trying to remain relevant with terrorist atrocities in the west. For that, again, it's very useful to be able to sweet talk the gullible and give the psychopathic a pretext by pointing out that the west *does* bomb Muslim countries and often ends up killing civilians in the process.
But no matter how often this pattern is repeated, there's a certain sort of person loudly pressuring politicians into short-sighted and self indulgent action in exchange for votes — people who have got no closer to armed conflict themselves than reading Andy McNab books in Surrey, but who want to be seen as hard men *more* outraged by little girls getting blown up than anyone else and demanding "toughness" at all costs.
For instance, I just read on here a demand that we "bomb the fück out of" ISIS - when they are very deliberately embedded among the civilian population in the territory they still control. I think it was Mr Sheen who posts here who posted a link to a first hand account of life in Mosul which is sadly well worth reading, partly because of the nightmarish detail about what those cnts are doing there but also it because it mentions how physically they're now using half a million ordinary people (yes, Muslims again) as human shields. *
You don't need to be a military strategist to see that dropping bombs on those civilians to hopefully get a few ISIS into the bargain is not only questionable morally, but spectacularly thick and counter productive. You're not going to thank American and Britain for "liberating" you if their bombs have killed your whole family in the process. You may even want to bomb them back.
* Mr Sheen's link is also worth reading because it makes clear how much ISIS rely for training and manpower on the Chechnyans, which it makes all the more unfortunate we're now palling up to a US president who appears to be in the pocket of Putin, who in turn sponsors the Chechnyan regime. [Post edited 28 May 2017 1:57]
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Here you go.
http://forum.planetrugby.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79589&hilit=Mo%27sul
Chechnya's story over the last two centuries is one catastrophe after another. Putin's man in Chechnya, Kadyrov, is the son of a separatist leader who changed sides and was then murdered. Putin gives the son a free hand in Chechnya and he uses it to steal and murder, including Putin's political rivals in Moscow. Most of the Chechens in ISIS are exiled opponents of his, but he has his own Islamic-influenced reign of terror going at home.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/08/putins-dragon [Post edited 28 May 2017 17:37]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:35 - May 28 with 1354 views | DannytheR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:13 - May 28 by essextaxiboy |
I think you know that we were talking then in the context of social care and inheritance .
We were talking about our immediate families and whether the state should pick up the tab for our care while our children retained their full inheritance .
This is about the national debt , relating to future taxation and the wealth of the nation . |
Hm, all seems a bit of a flip flop me. Then again, you were about to vote UKIP last week, so I can only assume you've gone down with a touch of the old strong-and-stables.
The context might be different, but the substance is exactly the same - our responsibilities to the generation after us.
Let's not be disingenuous here, if you were interested in giving them a fair shake, the very first thing you would be insisting on is adequate spending on education. But I've honestly never seen a word out of you on that subject.
I'm afraid what it looks like is that your real concern doesn't much stretch beyond your own pension and your own tax bill. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:40 - May 28 with 1346 views | stowmarketrange |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:13 - May 28 by essextaxiboy |
I think you know that we were talking then in the context of social care and inheritance .
We were talking about our immediate families and whether the state should pick up the tab for our care while our children retained their full inheritance .
This is about the national debt , relating to future taxation and the wealth of the nation . |
Don't you mean the national wealth of the top 5%?The only ones who haven't had to face austerity for the last 7 years. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 18:01 - May 28 with 1323 views | essextaxiboy |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 17:35 - May 28 by DannytheR |
Hm, all seems a bit of a flip flop me. Then again, you were about to vote UKIP last week, so I can only assume you've gone down with a touch of the old strong-and-stables.
The context might be different, but the substance is exactly the same - our responsibilities to the generation after us.
Let's not be disingenuous here, if you were interested in giving them a fair shake, the very first thing you would be insisting on is adequate spending on education. But I've honestly never seen a word out of you on that subject.
I'm afraid what it looks like is that your real concern doesn't much stretch beyond your own pension and your own tax bill. |
I dont know enough about education to pass comment . To be honest i struggle to get information that after a small amount of research turns out the the provider has skin in the game and a natural bias.
My Boys are 31, 25 and 22 . The youngest did his last exam at Uni last week . Its years since I talked first hand to a teacher and got a view from the coalface . I am simply not informed enough to comment .
My flirtation with UKIP was triggered by Suzanne Evans appearing to take a more prominent role . I think she is the most sensible of the lot of them . My UKIP candidate lives in Hemel and Nuttall is a thug in a funny suit IMO . It didnt last the day out . | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 18:32 - May 28 with 1279 views | DannytheR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 18:01 - May 28 by essextaxiboy |
I dont know enough about education to pass comment . To be honest i struggle to get information that after a small amount of research turns out the the provider has skin in the game and a natural bias.
My Boys are 31, 25 and 22 . The youngest did his last exam at Uni last week . Its years since I talked first hand to a teacher and got a view from the coalface . I am simply not informed enough to comment .
My flirtation with UKIP was triggered by Suzanne Evans appearing to take a more prominent role . I think she is the most sensible of the lot of them . My UKIP candidate lives in Hemel and Nuttall is a thug in a funny suit IMO . It didnt last the day out . |
Well, it's hard to put much faith in someone holding forth about the future of the nation if they wilfully ignore a programme of ongoing cuts in our schools.
Not only is it short changing a whole generation of British kids, it's also very obviously going to damage the whole country long term. We want to keep pace in an ever more competitive world economy while endlessly cutting back on education for 93% of our kids? Eh? If you actively wanted to reduce the country to a nation without prospects, that would be a great place to start.
If your party are losing public support, it may be because people are increasingly angry at being told only they can bring financial stability at a time when - after seven years in power and for the first time in my middle-aged lifetime - schools are having to lay off teaching staff and seriously discussing moving to a four day teaching week.
Seriously, what the fk are we doing as a country?
Anyone still voting Tory in the light of that is making their personal priorities very, very clear. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 18:44 - May 28 with 1261 views | stowmarketrange |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 18:32 - May 28 by DannytheR |
Well, it's hard to put much faith in someone holding forth about the future of the nation if they wilfully ignore a programme of ongoing cuts in our schools.
Not only is it short changing a whole generation of British kids, it's also very obviously going to damage the whole country long term. We want to keep pace in an ever more competitive world economy while endlessly cutting back on education for 93% of our kids? Eh? If you actively wanted to reduce the country to a nation without prospects, that would be a great place to start.
If your party are losing public support, it may be because people are increasingly angry at being told only they can bring financial stability at a time when - after seven years in power and for the first time in my middle-aged lifetime - schools are having to lay off teaching staff and seriously discussing moving to a four day teaching week.
Seriously, what the fk are we doing as a country?
Anyone still voting Tory in the light of that is making their personal priorities very, very clear. |
Why should the tories worry about a whole generation of kids not being properly funded at their schools?Who else is going to fill those zero hour contracts jobs that they love so much? | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 18:51 - May 28 with 1249 views | LythamR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 16:25 - May 28 by essextaxiboy |
I read it , you did type "reasonably achieved"
I translated that into Labour fag packet economics and got "leave it to the next generation to deal with" [Post edited 28 May 2017 16:37]
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Well i guess if your going to choose your own translations...
points you have made above regarding the potential pitfalls of re nationalisation have merit and would need to be addressed but they are not insurmountable and i consider the medium to long term benefits outweigh those challenges.
IF we carry on as we have been doing this country will bleed out economicaly, the standard of living will end up being dramatically reduced for the majority including the very people that are going to vote the tories in | | | |
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