| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... 13:58 - May 9 with 106093 views | hubble |
..posted by a good friend of mine on Facebook, thought I'd share it on here. He's a former professional footballer (briefly for Birmingham City) and a former copper, working mainly out of Camden police station. He grew up in Kilburn/Queens Park. He's now a writer (among other things).
Worth a read I think, hope you enjoy, whether you agree with him or not, even when he veers off-topic...
"Thoughts of the Week (part 1)
Let’s start with a subheading. ‘Dear, oh dear Diane Abbot!’
In the upcoming General Election campaign and apart from the ‘Leader’ (no, not Gary Glitter) no one is more important for the Labour Party campaign than the Shadow Home Secretary. Why’s this? You ask.
The reason is obvious: Theresa May —the strong woman, Ms subtle, but steely - was the former Home Secretary. A position which she used to inflict near terminal ravages of the nation’s police forces. Under her auspices we saw numbers cut, benefits cut and police stations closed willy-nilly to cash in, short-term, on the booming (especially in London) property market.
The short-sightedness of this policy is astounding. No matter the so-called austerity budget (which only seems to apply to the working classes, while the privileged elite continue to live the life of Riley) the question must be asked as to what will happen when there’s some serious social unrest — and you can feel it stirring. Remember 2011 when the riots broke out? We had anarchy and nihilism on the streets and the police force didn’t cope with it at all. Instead we had a grand mopping up campaign. Suddenly all those poor silly students who had been demonised as hard-core criminals after they smashed the windows of the Tory HQ — and received ridiculously harsh prison sentences for what were in the main first offences - were kicked out of the pokey and replaced by the new batch of rioters. The Criminal Justice system ground to a halt, the prison’s overflowed. The courts were as ram-jam packed as a back-in-the-day David Rodigan dance. In response what did the great Theresa May do? She further decimated the police force. She did the same to the prison service. The vaunted Border Force, our first defence, is comically short of manpower and morale as they attempt to hire staff on Mickey-Mouse contracts. Labour should be slaughtering Theresa May on what she’s done. Instead we got that car crash of an interview on LBC.
To be honest I resisted calls to listen to it for a time. Some of my more right-leaning pals were raving about it, but I thought they were overreacting due to a general contempt for the Hackney MP. I was wrong. When I actually got round to listening to it I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. It was stunningly incompetent, mind-blowingly nonsensical, embarrassing and shocking. Is this the Shadow Home Secretary who’s going to lead the challenge to Theresa May’s record? She should have stood down immediately and if not the great leader should have forced her hand, no matter past rendezvous in the sack. Of course it didn’t happen and Labour under Jeremy Corbyn has no hope in this election. What a shame it all is because there are loads of issues that they should be taking the government to task on. Just look at that bumbling Tommy Cooper impersonator of a Foreign Secretary, a million miles removed from a serious statesman: Mr Retraction — an embarrassment to the nation.
I’m voting Labour in the coming election, but not for Jeremy, more for the thought of the millions of people who are going to suffer under the coming five years of Tory rule: the working men and women who haven’t seen their wages rise, in real terms, for the last thirty years, while the fat cats, sharks and speculators are minted; the students starting out life saddled with debt; the millions who’ll never be able to afford a home; and in honour of the National Health Service, soon to be dismantled further, but remaining the brightest light in the nation’s modern history. What a rotten, unfair and unbalanced society we’ve become.
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 09:24 - May 20 with 2129 views | DWQPR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:10 - May 20 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
It's opens the door for care agents to whack up the prices and so that equity is gone like a rat down a drain pipe, it will fix nothing.
Dementia care is around 100k a year.
Their is a guy of 86 near me with no assets at all that has care in his home twice a day for a hour wash and feed him, but he has to buy the food and they take most of his pension to pay towards it, 23k or 100k makes not difference to him and won't to those with no asset as care is not free if you live as home. they also take the pension if you go in to a home. [Post edited 20 May 2017 8:27]
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If that is the case then regulation has to be tight, but it is an idea that can work well. When people go into care homes most of the pension is taken and the individuals still keep a weekly allowances to pay for such things as toiletries and hairdressing. Unfortunately for me the safest thing about growing old in the UK is that we don't look after our elders as in other countries whereby it is seen more as a privilege. We are just happy to shunt the care onto others and then moan when it has to be paid for out of what is considered to be our rightful inheritance. |  |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:32 - May 20 with 2102 views | DannytheR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 08:39 - May 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I've seen the words 'fact' and 'proven' used a lot in this thread.
I don't think those using them know what it means. |
Yep. I wonder if the same people would be interested in these actual facts?
Child poverty reduced dramatically between the late 90s and 2011. Since then, child poverty figures flat-lined, but have now risen for three years running. FACT
28% of British children are now classified as living in poverty. FACT
More than 2/3rds of children in poverty in the UK are from families where at least one parent is working. FACT [Post edited 20 May 2017 10:33]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:01 - May 20 with 2072 views | paulparker |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 10:32 - May 20 by DannytheR |
Yep. I wonder if the same people would be interested in these actual facts?
Child poverty reduced dramatically between the late 90s and 2011. Since then, child poverty figures flat-lined, but have now risen for three years running. FACT
28% of British children are now classified as living in poverty. FACT
More than 2/3rds of children in poverty in the UK are from families where at least one parent is working. FACT [Post edited 20 May 2017 10:33]
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Child poverty, child abuse etc has probably increased in this country since the late 90s but then so has the population of this country , the amount of people with large families has risen
Quick question do you really believe a labour government under Corbyn will address all of these issues , make them better , improve the NHS , tackle the problem of immigration etc , put the people of this country first ?
And before this turns into a slanging match with you I don't vote Tory and I don't think may is any good either |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:05 - May 20 with 2070 views | DannytheR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:01 - May 20 by paulparker |
Child poverty, child abuse etc has probably increased in this country since the late 90s but then so has the population of this country , the amount of people with large families has risen
Quick question do you really believe a labour government under Corbyn will address all of these issues , make them better , improve the NHS , tackle the problem of immigration etc , put the people of this country first ?
And before this turns into a slanging match with you I don't vote Tory and I don't think may is any good either |
Child poverty has only increased in the last three years, not since the late 90s.
It fell between the late 90s and 2011. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:22 - May 20 with 2050 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:01 - May 20 by paulparker |
Child poverty, child abuse etc has probably increased in this country since the late 90s but then so has the population of this country , the amount of people with large families has risen
Quick question do you really believe a labour government under Corbyn will address all of these issues , make them better , improve the NHS , tackle the problem of immigration etc , put the people of this country first ?
And before this turns into a slanging match with you I don't vote Tory and I don't think may is any good either |
I knew you was a secret Lib Dem Paul : ) |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:22 - May 20 with 2050 views | DannytheR |
Some more facts about poverty in the UK:
http://www.cpag.org.uk/child-poverty-facts-and-figures
The CPAG working definition of poverty is here:
"Individuals, families and groups in the population can be said to be in poverty when they lack resources to obtain the type of diet, participate in the activities and have the living conditions and amenities which are customary, or at least widely encouraged and approved, in the societies in which they belong."
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/what-is-poverty | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:28 - May 20 with 2039 views | MrSheen |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:22 - May 20 by DannytheR |
Some more facts about poverty in the UK:
http://www.cpag.org.uk/child-poverty-facts-and-figures
The CPAG working definition of poverty is here:
"Individuals, families and groups in the population can be said to be in poverty when they lack resources to obtain the type of diet, participate in the activities and have the living conditions and amenities which are customary, or at least widely encouraged and approved, in the societies in which they belong."
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/what-is-poverty |
CPAG use the relative income definition, after housing costs. They rely on the government figures. Their definition is from a paper written in 1979, but they don't have the resources to originate their own data.
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/uk-poverty-line |  | | |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:38 - May 20 with 2032 views | DannytheR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:28 - May 20 by MrSheen |
CPAG use the relative income definition, after housing costs. They rely on the government figures. Their definition is from a paper written in 1979, but they don't have the resources to originate their own data.
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/uk-poverty-line |
Yes, they use the statistics produced by the DWP, ONS, IFS and DfE.
I'm pretty comfortable saying I don't think the UK should have 4 million children and rising living in poverty as defined by the CPAG. [Post edited 20 May 2017 11:40]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:41 - May 20 with 2024 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:28 - May 20 by MrSheen |
CPAG use the relative income definition, after housing costs. They rely on the government figures. Their definition is from a paper written in 1979, but they don't have the resources to originate their own data.
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/uk-poverty-line |
Are you really quibbling about the difference? | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:49 - May 20 with 2007 views | MrSheen |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:41 - May 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Are you really quibbling about the difference? |
No, pointing out that the data on the CPAG site is from the same source as the one I posted, so you won't see any new data by going there. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:57 - May 20 with 1998 views | DannytheR |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:49 - May 20 by MrSheen |
No, pointing out that the data on the CPAG site is from the same source as the one I posted, so you won't see any new data by going there. |
Although if you do go there, the CPAG detail a number of ways to support their fight against 1 in 4 British children having to live in poverty. So that's useful :)
http://www.cpag.org.uk/how-you-can-help [Post edited 20 May 2017 12:03]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 12:14 - May 20 with 1983 views | stowmarketrange |
Quite conveniently it was announced yesterday that the information on how many NHS trusts are in deficit will not now be released until after June 8th.
Would this news not be a thing you expect in a 3rd world dictatorship?
Just another scandal that will be swept to the inside pages in favour of Corbyn not wearing a tie splashed across the front pages. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 19:02 - May 20 with 1906 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 09:24 - May 20 by DWQPR |
If that is the case then regulation has to be tight, but it is an idea that can work well. When people go into care homes most of the pension is taken and the individuals still keep a weekly allowances to pay for such things as toiletries and hairdressing. Unfortunately for me the safest thing about growing old in the UK is that we don't look after our elders as in other countries whereby it is seen more as a privilege. We are just happy to shunt the care onto others and then moan when it has to be paid for out of what is considered to be our rightful inheritance. |
Well if they do win and this goes ahead it may change how people look after their elders if it means they will lose out on any expected inheritance.
I do think it's shameful that many don't look after them. |  |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 19:06 - May 20 with 1899 views | FDC |
They've really dropped a bollock on this. You wonder whether if this were any time other than an election campaign in which they've been saying "strong and stable" quite a lot they might have u-turned on this. Backed themselves into a bit of corner. I reckon they're are probably some quite intense meetings going on at CCHQ at the moment. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 19:45 - May 20 with 1871 views | johncharles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 11:01 - May 20 by paulparker |
Child poverty, child abuse etc has probably increased in this country since the late 90s but then so has the population of this country , the amount of people with large families has risen
Quick question do you really believe a labour government under Corbyn will address all of these issues , make them better , improve the NHS , tackle the problem of immigration etc , put the people of this country first ?
And before this turns into a slanging match with you I don't vote Tory and I don't think may is any good either |
Do I think that a Labour government lead by Jeremy Corbyn will address these problems ?
Yes I do, I've read the manifesto and the costings. Bloody boring but yes I have and it works. I've also tried to read the Tory manifesto but there's nothing in there. it just says Brexit (no figures) and Theresa May (no policies)
Don't take my word for it, read it yourself. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:14 - May 20 with 1853 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
I think people are starting to realise what a sham May is, one poll I've seen is that the gap between Tory and Labour has halved in the last week, the only polices she had come up with so far is the care one and that's backfiring on her.
If it were not for the anti Corbyn' press that's so far up May's arse and never really question her, maybe a lot more would see what a sham she is.
I do also blame a lot of the Labour mp's that were more interested in getting rid of Corbyn and not the Tories - otherwise the Tories would be out on their ear. [Post edited 20 May 2017 20:15]
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:30 - May 20 with 1826 views | stowmarketrange |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:14 - May 20 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
I think people are starting to realise what a sham May is, one poll I've seen is that the gap between Tory and Labour has halved in the last week, the only polices she had come up with so far is the care one and that's backfiring on her.
If it were not for the anti Corbyn' press that's so far up May's arse and never really question her, maybe a lot more would see what a sham she is.
I do also blame a lot of the Labour mp's that were more interested in getting rid of Corbyn and not the Tories - otherwise the Tories would be out on their ear. [Post edited 20 May 2017 20:15]
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The media will really to stir the sh@t about any old labour mistake now then.They all have too much to lose to allow a fair election only fought on policies. | | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:31 - May 20 with 1824 views | johncharles |
The Tory manifesto says that the winter fuel allowance will be cut, drastically, but no details and, crucially, where the money saved will be going. Anyone out there with some facts ? | |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:38 - May 20 with 1815 views | colinallcars |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:31 - May 20 by johncharles |
The Tory manifesto says that the winter fuel allowance will be cut, drastically, but no details and, crucially, where the money saved will be going. Anyone out there with some facts ? |
They haven't said how they will means test the WFA. It's a pretty fair bet they will restrict it to those on Pension Credit. So, only 2 or 3 million will get it instead of the 12 million at the moment.
Another thing they tried to postpone was their policy on air pollution which had to be dragged out of them by the courts. They propose to do bugger all basically, and load it all onto local councils but give them no resources. Tories eh, doncha love 'em. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 20:43 - May 20 with 1804 views | Brightonhoop |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 07:24 - May 20 by DWQPR |
So Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser. FACT. Thornberry is a sneering aloof snob who looks down at the working class and Abbott is a racist and hypocrit. As for McDonnell, a self-admitting Marxist. And common people think that they won't pay more and their standards of living won't fall if this rabid bunch get in then they better shut their eyes to what would be coming. Their manifesto commitments will increase taxes for the common man, a good number of the 5% are mobile enough to clear off, as they did under the Wilson/Callaghan government of the 70's. we end up borrowing more at higher rates as inflation increases due to sudden higher minimum wages are imposed on companies and people suddenly spend more. Unions having the power of the 70's which crippled the U.K. Companies start making redundancies because of the higher costs, strikes costs companies even more in costs, interest rates start increasing and mortgage costs become eye-watering for the many not the few.
And onto the Tories proposals for the elderly. The loss of the triple lock isn't too much of an issue for retired people, inflation or national average earnings increases seem fair enough. The issue over using the cost of your home to pay for care has always been there. But a big difference now and something that hasn't been highlighted. A good proportion of elderly people tend to be asset rich and cash poor. Therefore if care is needed they have little choice, a care home, whereby their house is sold and the proceeds are used to cover the cost of care until the funds hit a minimum of £23,500, at which point the state takes over. But these pensioners who are asset rich and cash poor have little choice if they need that care, they end up having to sell their property. Under the proposals whereby they can receive home care and the cost is deferred until the estate is settled then allows those who would prefer to continue to and live and more importantly for many of them, to die in their own homes the chance to do so and not be forced to sell up, which is their wonky real choice currently. They can have the home care paid for, which would be at a lower cost than if in a care home knowing that the bill can be settled after their death. And for both scenarios the guaranteed lowest amount that can be passed on after their death would be £100,000, a four-fold increase. Now if the families of those who end up going into a home are switched on enough to use som of the funds from the sale of a property to purchase a lifetime annuity to cover the care costs then although there is some risk in terms of longevity of the person in care, the annuity should mean that the cost of care is capped. Therefore in my eyes the proposed system is actually better, more flexible and if more people can stay in their own homes till their passing then this also frees up more spaces in care homes. |
Truly staggering that anyone could lace that sin on such a rotten olicy and not see through it for what it is.
Two simple things. A) NI and Tax have already paid for long term care of the elderly.
B) For the Tories to target and de-incentivise home ownership and wealth building in such a way by seeking to remove almost everything people work for through their lives is incredibly naive and stupid, showing just how out of touch they really are.
May risks the Election on this issue alone. |  | | |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 21:08 - May 20 with 1786 views | loftboy |
I'm a life long Tory voter, but having read it he manifestos I am seriously considering voting labour for the first time, only trouble is in Bracknell Dr Lee our MP (saw him in Sainsburys today) has a huge majority, he is rarely in the constituency and in nicknamed Dr Who, labour are putting up a candidate who is based locally and is working hard on his campaigning.seriously tempted |  |
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| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 21:26 - May 20 with 1759 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| On Diane Abbot, why we should vote Labour anyway, and more... on 21:08 - May 20 by loftboy |
I'm a life long Tory voter, but having read it he manifestos I am seriously considering voting labour for the first time, only trouble is in Bracknell Dr Lee our MP (saw him in Sainsburys today) has a huge majority, he is rarely in the constituency and in nicknamed Dr Who, labour are putting up a candidate who is based locally and is working hard on his campaigning.seriously tempted |
Do it and get everyone you know to do it | |
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