| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care 01:45 - Nov 22 with 17825 views | Daley_Lama |
Hi all
There have been two accidents at this junction the last two nights, both at approx 22:00
I perceive the following as the reason for both accidents, said without seeing either but asking about the cause of both.
If you are heading from Littleborough and wish to turn right onto Whitworth Road, there is a new filter lane but no filter light.
When the traffic from John St and Whitworth Road have had their turn, it is St Mary's Gates turn.
Traffic heading from Asda to Littleborough get a green light first.
15 seconds later traffic heading from Littleborough to Asda get a green light.
There is no filter light for the right turn onto Whitworth Road. They simply see a green light.
The lights heading from Asda to Littleborough however are still fully on green.
With no filter light cars heading from Littleborough turning onto Whitworth Road naturally do green for go and if a car is coming the other way - accident.
I don't think this presents much of an issue at day time as the weight of traffic along St Mary's gate means cars don't simply proceed
At 22:00 the traffic flow is different. There's little initial queueing traffic and cars are simply travelling at 40 with a green light ploughing into a car turning across them with a perceived green light.
If nothing else, please advise those you know to proceed with care. It's a BIG accident waiting to happen, the one I saw tonight had police, ambulance and fire engines but from what I saw nothing terminal.
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 22:33 - Nov 26 with 1762 views | 1mark1 |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 22:29 - Nov 26 by deeplishblue |
At least it's near the infirmary |
Any life threatening injury though wouldn't be able to be treated there though as it's not an accident and emergency hospital. |  |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 22:45 - Nov 26 with 1743 views | roccydaleian |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 22:33 - Nov 26 by 1mark1 |
Any life threatening injury though wouldn't be able to be treated there though as it's not an accident and emergency hospital. |
Doesn't have to life threatening, Infirmary is now just a walk in centre, if you're in an ambulance it's off to Oldham (or wherever else) is available you go. |  | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 22:53 - Nov 26 with 1728 views | 1mark1 |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 22:45 - Nov 26 by roccydaleian |
Doesn't have to life threatening, Infirmary is now just a walk in centre, if you're in an ambulance it's off to Oldham (or wherever else) is available you go. |
True. Not sure what what happen, but my guess is from there they would take someone to RI, and then transfer them if required. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 23:14 - Nov 26 with 1703 views | roccydaleian |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 22:53 - Nov 26 by 1mark1 |
True. Not sure what what happen, but my guess is from there they would take someone to RI, and then transfer them if required. |
This is the procedure now Mark. If you can make it to the walk in centre at the Infirmary on your own steam, so to speak, you can be assessed and transferred if required. If you're in an accident say on Whitehall Street for example, and you need an ambulance, you go to Oldham straight away. You'll not go to the Infirmary. | | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 23:58 - Nov 26 with 1659 views | D_Alien |
OK, before anyone cuts in to say isn't it disgraceful we don't get taken to RI anymore, it's as simple as this - there just aren't enough highly qualified specialists to go round all the district hospitals, 24/7. It's nowt to do with funding either, the vacancies for specialist consultants were advertised but just couldn't be filled. I'm talking about specialists in different types of trauma, e.g. head, abdominal, orthopaedic, etc.
Another simple fact is that your chances of surviving a major accident are greater now than they've ever been.
So, there are fewer A&E's with all the right people there, and if you or your loved ones had a life-threatening accident, you'd want them treated by the best people. Where these centres of excellence are situated is a matter of geography, i.e. where can ambulances get to in the shortest time, given the area they have to cover, plus the support facilities such as scanners, specialist beds with the right level of nursing and allied health professionals available.
[Post edited 27 Nov 2015 0:00]
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:04 - Nov 27 with 1646 views | 1mark1 |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 23:14 - Nov 26 by roccydaleian |
This is the procedure now Mark. If you can make it to the walk in centre at the Infirmary on your own steam, so to speak, you can be assessed and transferred if required. If you're in an accident say on Whitehall Street for example, and you need an ambulance, you go to Oldham straight away. You'll not go to the Infirmary. |
OK, cheers for that confirmation of the procedure. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:11 - Nov 27 with 1622 views | D_Alien |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:04 - Nov 27 by 1mark1 |
OK, cheers for that confirmation of the procedure. |
Sorry. that's not strictly true. it all depends on how the paramedic attending the scene assesses the injury. If it's something that can be treated at the UCC at RI, you'll still go there. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:39 - Nov 27 with 1577 views | 1mark1 |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:11 - Nov 27 by D_Alien |
Sorry. that's not strictly true. it all depends on how the paramedic attending the scene assesses the injury. If it's something that can be treated at the UCC at RI, you'll still go there. |
OK, cheers. If it's a broken leg on Whitworth Road, it will be taken to UCC, but if someone has life threatening injuries then will be taken to Oldham ?
If there was a pregnant woman involved in a accident, then presumably they would take the precaution of getting her to Oldham, as that's the nearest maternity centre. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:47 - Nov 27 with 1575 views | roccydaleian |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:11 - Nov 27 by D_Alien |
Sorry. that's not strictly true. it all depends on how the paramedic attending the scene assesses the injury. If it's something that can be treated at the UCC at RI, you'll still go there. |
Well if that's correct (and not doubting it btw) That's one hell of a call for the paramedic to make. I suppose as well, will it depend on the staffing levels at the UCC. Is it staffed 24/7 do you know pal? | | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:48 - Nov 27 with 1573 views | D_Alien |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:39 - Nov 27 by 1mark1 |
OK, cheers. If it's a broken leg on Whitworth Road, it will be taken to UCC, but if someone has life threatening injuries then will be taken to Oldham ?
If there was a pregnant woman involved in a accident, then presumably they would take the precaution of getting her to Oldham, as that's the nearest maternity centre. |
A broken leg would go to Oldham.
A pregnant woman involved in an accident might still go to UCC if, for instance, she was badly shaken but not otherwise injured.
Paramedics will always take someone to Oldham (or in the case of a suspected heart attack, Manchester Royal Infirmary) if they're uncertain, e.g. someone could have a hidden abdominal injury if they've been impacted during the accident.
The point I wanted to make clear is someone might not be able to get to the UCC under their own steam, but unless there's evidence of trauma they might still go there. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:50 - Nov 27 with 1570 views | D_Alien |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:47 - Nov 27 by roccydaleian |
Well if that's correct (and not doubting it btw) That's one hell of a call for the paramedic to make. I suppose as well, will it depend on the staffing levels at the UCC. Is it staffed 24/7 do you know pal? |
Just read this after replying to 1mark1 - yes, I didn't intend to imply that paramedics are making serious calls, just that requiring an ambulance in itself doesn't necessarily mean you go to Oldham
Edit: and yes, it's 24/7
http://www.nhs.uk/Services/hospitals/Services/Service/DefaultView.aspx?id=104112
[Post edited 27 Nov 2015 0:53]
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:56 - Nov 27 with 1558 views | roccydaleian |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:48 - Nov 27 by D_Alien |
A broken leg would go to Oldham.
A pregnant woman involved in an accident might still go to UCC if, for instance, she was badly shaken but not otherwise injured.
Paramedics will always take someone to Oldham (or in the case of a suspected heart attack, Manchester Royal Infirmary) if they're uncertain, e.g. someone could have a hidden abdominal injury if they've been impacted during the accident.
The point I wanted to make clear is someone might not be able to get to the UCC under their own steam, but unless there's evidence of trauma they might still go there. |
You've pretty much answered my last post there pal. Cheers...
As an aside to this storey, looks like their's quite a few journo's taking an interest in this Townhead fiasco. Be interesting to see what happens. | | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 01:01 - Nov 27 with 1544 views | D_Alien |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:56 - Nov 27 by roccydaleian |
You've pretty much answered my last post there pal. Cheers...
As an aside to this storey, looks like their's quite a few journo's taking an interest in this Townhead fiasco. Be interesting to see what happens. |
I'd really like to see this Steve Reay guy taken to task for his blasé attitude to public safety. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 10:11 - Nov 27 with 1431 views | Daley_Lama |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 01:01 - Nov 27 by D_Alien |
I'd really like to see this Steve Reay guy taken to task for his blasé attitude to public safety. |
Legally he is correct, the cars turning right should give way to oncoming traffic.
When initially asked there was no way he would admit to poor planning as the solicitors for the car insurance companies would have a field day.
Add in that The junction upgrade has been heavily critisised for the length of time it took and lack of percieved benefit and the chap is probably sick of thr sight of it.
Having said all that he has not taken steps to make the junction safe despite the obvious issues here. A simple change so that Yorkshire St goes green only when St Mary's has gone red would stop the accidents.
Had that change been made last nights accident could not have happened.
This is where legally he is on sticky ground from a governance/care of duty perspective.
I might stand for local election, it might be the quickest way to effect change. | |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 10:54 - Nov 27 with 1382 views | number30 |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:11 - Nov 27 by D_Alien |
Sorry. that's not strictly true. it all depends on how the paramedic attending the scene assesses the injury. If it's something that can be treated at the UCC at RI, you'll still go there. |
That is correct. The attending clinician follows a pathway to decide where the patient goes.
Minor injury or illness can still go via ambulance to the Infirmary, if after assessment the patient fits certain criteria.
All medical patients, who when RI was an A&E would have gone there, should be taken to Fairfield along with minor trauma.
Moderate trauma goes to Oldham, major trauma to Manchester Royal.
Any maternity patient should not be taken to RI by ambulance.
Paediatric cases should go to Oldham or Crumsal |  | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 10:56 - Nov 27 with 1379 views | number30 |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:39 - Nov 27 by 1mark1 |
OK, cheers. If it's a broken leg on Whitworth Road, it will be taken to UCC, but if someone has life threatening injuries then will be taken to Oldham ?
If there was a pregnant woman involved in a accident, then presumably they would take the precaution of getting her to Oldham, as that's the nearest maternity centre. |
Broken leg should not be taken by ambulance to RI, the patient should be able to walk to go there by ambulance.
Correct on the maternity. | | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 10:58 - Nov 27 with 1375 views | number30 |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 00:47 - Nov 27 by roccydaleian |
Well if that's correct (and not doubting it btw) That's one hell of a call for the paramedic to make. I suppose as well, will it depend on the staffing levels at the UCC. Is it staffed 24/7 do you know pal? |
Ambulance crews make that call all the time when attending any job in Rochdale.
RI is what is known as a "Kitemark 1" UCC so has to have minimum staffing levels and qualifications. It should be fully staffed 24/7 | | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 11:22 - Nov 27 with 1349 views | pioneer |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 23:58 - Nov 26 by D_Alien |
OK, before anyone cuts in to say isn't it disgraceful we don't get taken to RI anymore, it's as simple as this - there just aren't enough highly qualified specialists to go round all the district hospitals, 24/7. It's nowt to do with funding either, the vacancies for specialist consultants were advertised but just couldn't be filled. I'm talking about specialists in different types of trauma, e.g. head, abdominal, orthopaedic, etc.
Another simple fact is that your chances of surviving a major accident are greater now than they've ever been.
So, there are fewer A&E's with all the right people there, and if you or your loved ones had a life-threatening accident, you'd want them treated by the best people. Where these centres of excellence are situated is a matter of geography, i.e. where can ambulances get to in the shortest time, given the area they have to cover, plus the support facilities such as scanners, specialist beds with the right level of nursing and allied health professionals available.
[Post edited 27 Nov 2015 0:00]
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So why arent there enough specialists to go round.if its not a funding issue?
the funded positions cannot be filled presumably because there arent enough specialists being trained
As always with the NHS thepopuation are being told what is good for them by the provider elites who have a vested interest. |  | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 11:49 - Nov 27 with 1334 views | roccydaleian |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 10:54 - Nov 27 by number30 |
That is correct. The attending clinician follows a pathway to decide where the patient goes.
Minor injury or illness can still go via ambulance to the Infirmary, if after assessment the patient fits certain criteria.
All medical patients, who when RI was an A&E would have gone there, should be taken to Fairfield along with minor trauma.
Moderate trauma goes to Oldham, major trauma to Manchester Royal.
Any maternity patient should not be taken to RI by ambulance.
Paediatric cases should go to Oldham or Crumsal |
Incorrect about Ri patients needing surgical/trauma and medical issues going to Fairfield, they all now go to Oldham.They will be assessed in A&E and then a decision made where to admit.Oldham has orthopaedic trauma ward and emergency surgery.If the hospital is full then patients may be sent to NMGH if beds are available there. | | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 11:51 - Nov 27 with 1328 views | roccydaleian |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 10:56 - Nov 27 by number30 |
Broken leg should not be taken by ambulance to RI, the patient should be able to walk to go there by ambulance.
Correct on the maternity. |
This doesn't make sense, please explain. | | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 11:55 - Nov 27 with 1325 views | roccydaleian |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 10:58 - Nov 27 by number30 |
Ambulance crews make that call all the time when attending any job in Rochdale.
RI is what is known as a "Kitemark 1" UCC so has to have minimum staffing levels and qualifications. It should be fully staffed 24/7 |
Can't believe that about ambulance crews, can you be more specific please. | | | |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 12:37 - Nov 27 with 1279 views | D_Alien |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 11:22 - Nov 27 by pioneer |
So why arent there enough specialists to go round.if its not a funding issue?
the funded positions cannot be filled presumably because there arent enough specialists being trained
As always with the NHS thepopuation are being told what is good for them by the provider elites who have a vested interest. |
I just knew someone with a left wing agenda would post something like this.
Sure, if you wanted every former district general hospital to have a full A&E, staffed with all the attendant facilities for dealing with every type of major trauma, with huge amounts of land available for all of the above and the type of environment that top notch specialists would thrive in from a career point of view - lets just put the basic rate of tax up to 35-40% for everyone, because that's the type of increase we'd be talking about to fund such facilities in every locality. BUT EVEN THEN the top notch specialists wouldn't take up those posts. Why not?
Because top notch specialists, or those seeking to become the best they can be, need to be dealing with dozens, if not hundreds of cases involving different problems/conditions every year to learn what they need to know, and to keep those skills updated. A place like Rochdale simply wouldn't have enough throughput of patients with specific injuries to enable them to do that.
If you want to be treated following a major accident resulting in multiple injuries by someone who's never seen those type of injuries before, or it was more than 12 months ago when they did, then fine, just continue with your blinkered left wing agenda.
As stated before, your chances of surviving a major trauma are now greater than ever before, because the best specialists are concentrated together. The time it takes to deliver you there by ambulance is insignificant in terms of survival rate - in fact, it allows the team at the hospital to be prepared for your arrival. Yes, it's inconvenient for relatives to visit, but at least they won't be visiting a cemetery instead.
[Post edited 27 Nov 2015 12:39]
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 14:43 - Nov 27 with 1176 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 12:37 - Nov 27 by D_Alien |
I just knew someone with a left wing agenda would post something like this.
Sure, if you wanted every former district general hospital to have a full A&E, staffed with all the attendant facilities for dealing with every type of major trauma, with huge amounts of land available for all of the above and the type of environment that top notch specialists would thrive in from a career point of view - lets just put the basic rate of tax up to 35-40% for everyone, because that's the type of increase we'd be talking about to fund such facilities in every locality. BUT EVEN THEN the top notch specialists wouldn't take up those posts. Why not?
Because top notch specialists, or those seeking to become the best they can be, need to be dealing with dozens, if not hundreds of cases involving different problems/conditions every year to learn what they need to know, and to keep those skills updated. A place like Rochdale simply wouldn't have enough throughput of patients with specific injuries to enable them to do that.
If you want to be treated following a major accident resulting in multiple injuries by someone who's never seen those type of injuries before, or it was more than 12 months ago when they did, then fine, just continue with your blinkered left wing agenda.
As stated before, your chances of surviving a major trauma are now greater than ever before, because the best specialists are concentrated together. The time it takes to deliver you there by ambulance is insignificant in terms of survival rate - in fact, it allows the team at the hospital to be prepared for your arrival. Yes, it's inconvenient for relatives to visit, but at least they won't be visiting a cemetery instead.
[Post edited 27 Nov 2015 12:39]
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well I am of a left wing persuasion, and whilst the idea of regional specialist centres sounds great, the reality is that Oldham is not big enough to deal with the amount of people using it. The place is a shambles, Crumpsall is due to lose its a and e dept. if you are critically ill, the length of time it would take to get to the MRI or Salford is a factor in you survival chances,its not called the golden hour after trauma for nothing. If your relatives have no transport, you wont be getting visitors v often. Rochdale infirmary was run down over years, to the point it couldn't recruit the staff, if we still had a and e , the more serious cases could still go to regional centres. its not a choice between the two, we need both |  |
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| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 16:14 - Nov 27 with 1143 views | mingthemerciless |
| Whitworth Road/St Mary's Gate Junction: Procede with care on 14:43 - Nov 27 by rochdaleriddler |
well I am of a left wing persuasion, and whilst the idea of regional specialist centres sounds great, the reality is that Oldham is not big enough to deal with the amount of people using it. The place is a shambles, Crumpsall is due to lose its a and e dept. if you are critically ill, the length of time it would take to get to the MRI or Salford is a factor in you survival chances,its not called the golden hour after trauma for nothing. If your relatives have no transport, you wont be getting visitors v often. Rochdale infirmary was run down over years, to the point it couldn't recruit the staff, if we still had a and e , the more serious cases could still go to regional centres. its not a choice between the two, we need both |
You talk a lot of sense there. Access to the facilities at Oldham are chaotic. The hospital has been allowed to out grow the site. Best not say too much though. Just shut up and accept what your betters have planned for you. | | | |
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