| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors 01:14 - Sep 16 with 4994 views | Lord_Bony |
I seriously think we re becoming an attractive proposition,especially after the recent performances and film exposure to go with it.
The eyes of the footballing world are upon us and there is always big money looking to invest in profitable clubs.
Our profile is higher than its ever been.
Do you reckon we could attract some big outside investors now or in the future.? |  |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:26 - Sep 16 with 1047 views | hammy |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 11:27 - Sep 16 by Catullus |
I keep going through the pro's and cons, and a lot needs to be guaranteed before I'd be happy with a billionaire buy out.
And like others, I think the trust and the fact we don't own the stadium is a put off to potential buyers.
I don't think the small capacity is an issue. If someone can afford to buy the club, surely they can afford the money to expand?
Right, the guarantees,
1, Any money invested in the club is not put down as a loan to the club.
2, That we would keep on doing things our way, just with more money. I wouldn't want to see everything change and have stupid money spent when our way is working fairly well.
3, The trust remains, part of our success is based on accountability, having a voice and a rep at board meetings so nothing underhand can take place.
4, No big decisions are taken unilaterally, the trust is always involved.
5, No asset stripping, selling for a quick profit or price rises above inflation. Whoever comes in, is in for the long haul.
And if those guarantees were needed, I don't see anybody wanting to buy. Quite honestly, there aren't many people I can think of who I'd like to come in. Looking at those who have taken over Premier clubs, only the Citeh sheik and John Henry at Liverpool are what I'll call "proper investors" as in, they are spending big, improving the club across the board and not in it for a quick profit, people like that are very rare.
And a John Henry would be preferred as he has kept the identity of the club too. The Mancs I think of as a plaything for a mega rich, bored businessman. maybe that's not fair, but it's my opinion.
Ideally, we would buy the stadium ourselves, secure an investment for a large stake in the club and continue to trade without racking up any huge debts.
The best thing, in my eyes, would be for the trust to have 25%, for the current board to keep 26% and a new investor to have 49%. Highly unlikely, but it would mean nothing major could be done without at least one section of genuine fans having an input.
But an ideal buy out scenario, from our point of view, is never going to happen.
Anybody with the money to buy, will want full control. And like many others, I would rather stay as we are than risk doing a Cardiff, Leeds or Portsmouth.
We will, in all probability, get relegated one day. Hopefully not for a while. And hopefully, we will be strong enough to come back up without any major spending. |
What about extending the shareholding to lots of small investors up to the 49%, with the current board and the supporters trust keeping the 25% and 26% holdings as indicated above. Maybe the best of all worlds when we need to get to the next level ? |  |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:52 - Sep 16 with 1028 views | Uxbridge |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:26 - Sep 16 by hammy |
What about extending the shareholding to lots of small investors up to the 49%, with the current board and the supporters trust keeping the 25% and 26% holdings as indicated above. Maybe the best of all worlds when we need to get to the next level ? |
I can't see the current board voting for that ... |  |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:54 - Sep 16 with 1025 views | jackonicko |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:52 - Sep 16 by Uxbridge |
I can't see the current board voting for that ... |
I can't see lots of investors going for that either.
No voting power, no control over decision making, limited ROI, any yield is higher risk as dependent on staying in the PL.
Why would anyone put money in for that? |  | | |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:58 - Sep 16 with 1020 views | Shaky |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:26 - Sep 16 by hammy |
What about extending the shareholding to lots of small investors up to the 49%, with the current board and the supporters trust keeping the 25% and 26% holdings as indicated above. Maybe the best of all worlds when we need to get to the next level ? |
How many would be willing to invest?
For argument sake let's assume:
1) that season ticket holders are sufficiently devoted to put their hard earned cash into the club; and;
2) there are 10,000 season ticket holders.
How much do they invest each?
£100 = gets you £1 million; barely enough to sign a Championship journeyman
£1,000 = £10 million; almost enough for a single decent striker
£10,000 = £100 million; now you're talking, but alas there is no way you'll find 10,000 Swansea supporters each with £1,000 to invest, never mind £10,000. [Post edited 16 Sep 2014 15:02]
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:59 - Sep 16 with 1015 views | Uxbridge |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:54 - Sep 16 by jackonicko |
I can't see lots of investors going for that either.
No voting power, no control over decision making, limited ROI, any yield is higher risk as dependent on staying in the PL.
Why would anyone put money in for that? |
For their love of the Swans mun. | |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:01 - Sep 16 with 1008 views | jackonicko |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:59 - Sep 16 by Uxbridge |
For their love of the Swans mun. |
Good point. I'll mortgage my house.  | | | |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:03 - Sep 16 with 1002 views | Shaky |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:01 - Sep 16 by jackonicko |
Good point. I'll mortgage my house. |
For the love of God, don't do anything without first asking a friend to double check your sums. | |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:08 - Sep 16 with 995 views | jackonicko |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:03 - Sep 16 by Shaky |
For the love of God, don't do anything without first asking a friend to double check your sums. |
Aw shucks. And I was just about to post that I agreed with your earlier effort.
Get yourself over to Starksy's thread - he needs you. | | | |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:19 - Sep 16 with 986 views | Uxbridge |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:01 - Sep 16 by jackonicko |
Good point. I'll mortgage my house. |
I was expecting you to make an appearance there  . Disappointed I was. | |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:45 - Sep 16 with 962 views | Johnw102 |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:08 - Sep 16 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
I'd welcome investment towards putting another 5,000 seats or so in the stadium and in return the investment company gets the ticket revenue from any number of seats over the current 20,500 sold each week - or something similar along those lines.
Anything regarding selling shares to an outsider concerns me. |
Do we need extra seats? At the moment there are still tickets available for Saints game. |  |
| Never knew getting old would happen so quick! |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:55 - Sep 16 with 954 views | Brynmill_Jack |
What we have to be careful of is some investors buying the club and the stadium then demolishing it to pave the way for a mini athletics stadium and a few AstroTurf pitches |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:56 - Sep 16 with 952 views | Bloodyhills |
Just read the Mail, article, they said that we signed Ki from Sunderland, their journalists need a kick up the arse. Apart from that it was interesting to read. |  |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 16:15 - Sep 16 with 937 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:45 - Sep 16 by Johnw102 |
Do we need extra seats? At the moment there are still tickets available for Saints game. |
Every game in this league has been a home sell out, meaning we have missed out on the walk up crowds every time.
You only have to look at the Rotherham game to realise the huge numbers who will only decide on attending a match a couple of hours before kick off. |  |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 16:32 - Sep 16 with 917 views | Starsky |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 15:45 - Sep 16 by Johnw102 |
Do we need extra seats? At the moment there are still tickets available for Saints game. |
Are you really going to ask that question ? |  |
| It's just the internet, init. |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 16:54 - Sep 16 with 903 views | Fuggie |
To invest in a football club I believe you need to be one of the following (not exhaustive);
1. Committed, Loyal Supporter of the club who is prepared to commit funds to the club to ensure their survival/growth. You are in it for the long term and do not expect to see any major personal benefit.
2. More money than sense. See the club as a status symbol and spend vast sums of money on players/wages etc without the prospect of any major return on your investment.
3. Asset stripper. Involved in acquiring a small or even large football club at a low price and then proceeding to sell all the major assets of the club and pocketing the proceeds before disappearing into the sunset.
4. Dodgy character. Using the club to move around large sums of money without it raising any signifcant issues with the local police/taxman. Quite willing to lose significant sums if it means it will benefit you in the future and make you look more legitimate.
5. Mad. Similar to point 2 but wants a say in all matters dealing with the club. Cannot delegate control to other individuals and wants things done his own way. Has a hissy fit when something does not go his and threatens to bankrupt the club despite the horrendous loss to himself.
I believe the Financial Fair Play rules stop most investors from doing what has happened in Man City/Utd, Chelsea, Cardiff in recent years. IE funds need to be provided as Equity and not Loans to cover funding shortfalls. Though only a small difference a loan is recoverable before equity in the event of insolvency/bankruptcy and can charge interest, even if loss making, whereas you can only receive dividends from your equity if there are profits.
The only way Swansea will obtain a major investor is by sacrificing either our core values or a number of our supporters win the euromillions. | | | |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 17:59 - Sep 16 with 827 views | hammy |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 14:58 - Sep 16 by Shaky |
How many would be willing to invest?
For argument sake let's assume:
1) that season ticket holders are sufficiently devoted to put their hard earned cash into the club; and;
2) there are 10,000 season ticket holders.
How much do they invest each?
£100 = gets you £1 million; barely enough to sign a Championship journeyman
£1,000 = £10 million; almost enough for a single decent striker
£10,000 = £100 million; now you're talking, but alas there is no way you'll find 10,000 Swansea supporters each with £1,000 to invest, never mind £10,000. [Post edited 16 Sep 2014 15:02]
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Fair comments.
I suppose I didn't really mean small investors purely from the supporter base, but it could make up a reasonable contribution. How about looking to get business people with up to £1M each to invest giving them some form of VIP access to the club / facilities. Could soon make up £50M+ which could be put to very good use to get the club moving forward.
The Swans board has shown that it can be very different to normal football clubs in the recent past and now has a very good track record in running a sporting business whilst being competitive on the field.
How to sustain this and also mover to a slightly higher level. | |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 18:52 - Sep 16 with 792 views | londonlisa2001 |
I am actually not certain that we are a particularly good investment for a 'big investor' - I say that though with the caveat that I am assuming that the current shareholders do not particularly want to sell or 'cash out' a substantial part of their holding.
I say this partly because we are so well run and because of the success we are achieving currently, and the level of TV money we receive - I realise that this may sound strange.
But, assuming that current owners don't want to sell and therefore, that there is no prospect of picking up the club 'on the cheap', any investor is going to look at the extra investment needed to generate more profit than is happening at the moment.
The strange situation that we are in, is that there are only limited ways of significantly increasing our profits, and I think the level of investment that would be needed to do this would be huge.
Given the vast sums on money now given to the Premier League by Sky, and the relatively fair way of apportioning this money, there is not a massive difference in profitability from TV money between finishing say 9th and finishing 5th (I say 5th deliberately).
We also know from experience that there is not an awful lot of money to be made from participation in the Europa league (again a few million, but nothing earth shattering).
So the real 'additional' profitability can really only be generated in a few ways. Extra seats, sponsorship and commercial income and Champions League.
Some of the extra seats though would already be built into a valuation of the club effectively, since we are told that the club has sufficient funds set aside for the first phase of development (c. 5,000 seats). So on top of that, how many seats could we realistically add in the medium term that would be filled - another 5,000-7,000, taking the capacity up to about 32,000? That would add (evening out here between seasons, walk ups and discounts) to max. of £500 per season per seat. That's £5-6m extra income a year, and of that, about £2.5m has already been 'accounted for' in the proposed 1st phase expansion. Even assuming that those people spend the same again in commercial income (which would be a very generous estimate) it's not that much extra income.
In my view the commercial income of the club could be improved substantially, but again, we'd only be talking in a different ball park for things such as sponsorship, shirts, naming rights and so on, if we could become one of those clubs that have a truly global following. Now that can actually happen quite quickly - look at Man City, but it only happens when you're talking Champions League / challenging for title type stuff.
And that is the problem. For us to get to a point where we could achieve Champions League for 2 or 3 years and start getting a following in the big commercial markets (Asia, US etc) how much would an investor have to put in to the club? You'd be talking taking one of Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd out (and that still only gets you to 5th) plus there's Everton and Spurs.
The money required to truly move us up to that level - in my view, is £100m plus - probably double that really when you take wages into consideration and also look at Liverpool spending over £100m this year, plus Man Utd - at least one of them will miss out again.
That's a lot of money to risk on the chance that we could take out one of the 'big boys'. And if we can't take them out, then there's really not an awful lot more money we could generate really.
That still leaves one of the 'other' reasons to buy a club - the status symbol (why not buy Everton), the property development angle (it's Swansea, not London or a 'big city') or the 'oligarch trying to make himself more respectable' - possibly - there's a lot of them, but hopefully we wouldn't countenance selling to them.
So I'm not sure how many investors that really leaves? | | | |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 18:56 - Sep 16 with 782 views | Oldjack |
Vincent Tan Chee Yioun maybe on the lookout for new investments ,billionaire he is plus not afraid too splash the cash |  |
| Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 18:58 - Sep 16 with 779 views | Jackfath |
If they directors were to put the club up for sale, what would be the asking price? |  |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 18:59 - Sep 16 with 780 views | Brynmill_Jack |
I would prefer the trust to increase it's shareholding. As has been already stated in this thread could you imagine us being like a Leeds or a Portsmouth with the guts ripped out of the club by some carpetbaggers? Or become so much in debt like Cardiff and get a megalomaniac owner who changes all we have dear on a whim (add Hull to that). No thanks, we've done the hard bit, the constitution of the club must make it impossible for what happened to the aforementioned clubs to happen to us. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 19:58 - Sep 16 with 741 views | Shaky |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 17:59 - Sep 16 by hammy |
Fair comments.
I suppose I didn't really mean small investors purely from the supporter base, but it could make up a reasonable contribution. How about looking to get business people with up to £1M each to invest giving them some form of VIP access to the club / facilities. Could soon make up £50M+ which could be put to very good use to get the club moving forward.
The Swans board has shown that it can be very different to normal football clubs in the recent past and now has a very good track record in running a sporting business whilst being competitive on the field.
How to sustain this and also mover to a slightly higher level. |
In my view it would be equally problematic finding 50 people each willing to invest £1 million. Remember there is not even a remote prospect of realising their investment, because the whole rationale for this discussion is to prevent a future takeover of the club. What you are in effect asking for is a sort of endowment and I just don't think that could be found on anywhere near that scale.
More generally the key question when discussing shareholdings is whether changes are the result of new shares being created or existing shares changing hands. As I see it the club currently has no great need for significant new capital because it is largely self financing, so it makes no sense to sell new shares at the moment.
The reality is that it is relatively easy to sell shares when everything is going well, but that becomes significantly more problematic if and when fortunes start to decline. And as I have argued before I consider the weakness I have already pointed out in your initial thoughts is already present in the current shareholding structure, because nobody has significant capital they can put into the club if it suddenly needs to raise cash. That goes for not only the Trust, but also for the other private shareholders possibly with the exception of Morgan.
As I see it the way to secure the future of the club in the long term would therefore to bring in a strategic investor with deep pockets to fund any future downturn, but negotiating the right terms for that is obviously easier said than done. | |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 21:12 - Sep 16 with 697 views | blobby2 |
I had a text today that claimed the board will be meeting on Thursday to sell the club to an American financial institution with the sticking point expected to be the trusts holdings.
Don't know if this is true or not , any one else had any whispers? |  |
| on the north bank in 64 currently in 2 seats in the upper east and proudly supporting Wales ONLY premier league team. Prosser is a twonk! |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 21:22 - Sep 16 with 685 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 21:12 - Sep 16 by blobby2 |
I had a text today that claimed the board will be meeting on Thursday to sell the club to an American financial institution with the sticking point expected to be the trusts holdings.
Don't know if this is true or not , any one else had any whispers? |
well if that was true, then my caveat that I assumed the current owners didn't want to cash in would be through the window. There have been many such rumours over the years though, and none have been true and for the life of me I couldn't see why an American financial institution would want to buy a football club. | | | |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 21:27 - Sep 16 with 678 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 21:22 - Sep 16 by londonlisa2001 |
well if that was true, then my caveat that I assumed the current owners didn't want to cash in would be through the window. There have been many such rumours over the years though, and none have been true and for the life of me I couldn't see why an American financial institution would want to buy a football club. |
Blobby could just be stirring things and has not provided evidence of said text, why haven't you attacked him and called him a liar? | |
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| Swansea FC attractive to some Big Investors on 21:29 - Sep 16 with 674 views | perchrockjack |
As it happens both Everton and Liverpool are now clear to build or develop new stadium | |
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