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The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 21:45 - Nov 20 by longlostjack
Of course it has - you only need to read the Merchant of Venice ! You are also right in saying that if Zionism didn't 't exist we may well still have anti-semitism. But has it helped in quelling anti-semitism? Has it hell - and that is the real tragedy.
The problem with the "Zionism fuels anti-semitism" argument is it's bordering on blaming the victim. If you look at the high level definition of Zionism, ie the establishment of a "Jewish" homeland in Israel, well arguably that's the aim of the Palestinian side - establishing a homeland, albeit without the history, culture etc of Jews in the land.
If Israel didn't exist, there would still be anti-semitism. It would still be the same old shoit the usual suspects come out with, "Jews control media", "Jews have all the money".
After all, a lot of the anti semitism aimed ( especially at Israel ) is usually by people who couldn't give a shoit about Palestinians either. Just hate Jews more.
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 22:38 - Nov 20 by reddythered
The problem with the "Zionism fuels anti-semitism" argument is it's bordering on blaming the victim. If you look at the high level definition of Zionism, ie the establishment of a "Jewish" homeland in Israel, well arguably that's the aim of the Palestinian side - establishing a homeland, albeit without the history, culture etc of Jews in the land.
If Israel didn't exist, there would still be anti-semitism. It would still be the same old shoit the usual suspects come out with, "Jews control media", "Jews have all the money".
After all, a lot of the anti semitism aimed ( especially at Israel ) is usually by people who couldn't give a shoit about Palestinians either. Just hate Jews more.
I m not being funny mate but no one here is anti semitic.
What you don t seem to grasp is the unfairness of this.
There are about 300 Palestinian men,women and children killed by Israelis for every one death they suffer.
It s very simple.
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 10:53 - Nov 21 by Lord_Bony
I m not being funny mate but no one here is anti semitic.
What you don t seem to grasp is the unfairness of this.
There are about 300 Palestinian men,women and children killed by Israelis for every one death they suffer.
It s very simple.
I'm not being funny mate but for people who aren't anti-semitic they aren't slow to use the "Jews own the media, Jews own the money" angles. You know, the tropes that anti-semites used.
Indeed, when I asked which "Jews" control the British media ( Richard Desmond and that's about it ) there was no reply, funnily enough.
What you don't seem to grasp is you seem to want to hold Israel to a far higher standard than Hamas et al. You and others believe the PA account. As seen at Jenin, that was massively inflated and quit frankly a lie. Given the numerous photos ( a lot from Syria, indeed one the slaughter of a Jewish family including a young baby ) that have falselt been claimed to be those of Israeli atrocities, given the ISM videos with gaping holes in them, it's amazing people only seem to want to question one side.
EDIT: Indeed, that Israel is so like evil, one of the top Hamas guys had I believe his niece sent there for medical treatment. No hypocracy there.
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 12:41 - Nov 21 by reddythered
I'm not being funny mate but for people who aren't anti-semitic they aren't slow to use the "Jews own the media, Jews own the money" angles. You know, the tropes that anti-semites used.
Indeed, when I asked which "Jews" control the British media ( Richard Desmond and that's about it ) there was no reply, funnily enough.
What you don't seem to grasp is you seem to want to hold Israel to a far higher standard than Hamas et al. You and others believe the PA account. As seen at Jenin, that was massively inflated and quit frankly a lie. Given the numerous photos ( a lot from Syria, indeed one the slaughter of a Jewish family including a young baby ) that have falselt been claimed to be those of Israeli atrocities, given the ISM videos with gaping holes in them, it's amazing people only seem to want to question one side.
EDIT: Indeed, that Israel is so like evil, one of the top Hamas guys had I believe his niece sent there for medical treatment. No hypocracy there.
[Post edited 21 Nov 2014 12:43]
RE "you seem to want to hold Israel to a far higher standard than Hamas "
Since Hamas is designated as a terrorist organisation by EU, US, UK, I would hope Israel has higher standards then Hamas.
If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
0
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 15:57 - Nov 21 with 699 views
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 15:57 - Nov 21 by reddythered
Israel does.
After all, if Israel adopted the same tactics Hamas did, there would be far more dead. Can't recall any schools in Israel with rockets in.
Oh FFS ...the whole world knows Netanyahu and his crazy government of Israel would have no problem in sending in a couple of F16 jets or tanks to blow up a school or apartment block .
It happens all the time ...all Hamas can do is fight back with a couple of rockets...
Stop trying to justify the one sided slaughter thats going on mate...theres a lot more of it to come now .... You d soon have enough to say if it was the other way round....
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 15:57 - Nov 21 by reddythered
Israel does.
After all, if Israel adopted the same tactics Hamas did, there would be far more dead. Can't recall any schools in Israel with rockets in.
If is a small word with a big meaning. For example IF the Palestinians had the same military help from the USA as Israel has, maybe Israel would think twice before it carried out military operations against the Palestinians.
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:16 - Nov 21 by Lord_Bony
Oh FFS ...the whole world knows Netanyahu and his crazy government of Israel would have no problem in sending in a couple of F16 jets or tanks to blow up a school or apartment block .
It happens all the time ...all Hamas can do is fight back with a couple of rockets...
Stop trying to justify the one sided slaughter thats going on mate...theres a lot more of it to come now .... You d soon have enough to say if it was the other way round....
LOL. Seriously, just lol.
I note you've had nothing to say about Jenin. Any reason?
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:22 - Nov 21 by dgt73
If is a small word with a big meaning. For example IF the Palestinians had the same military help from the USA as Israel has, maybe Israel would think twice before it carried out military operations against the Palestinians.
Exactly, any powerful military force that attacks defenseless men,women and children in a small area they cant escape from and the subjects them to terror and humiliation day after day are a bunch of cowards for want of a better word.
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:22 - Nov 21 by dgt73
If is a small word with a big meaning. For example IF the Palestinians had the same military help from the USA as Israel has, maybe Israel would think twice before it carried out military operations against the Palestinians.
IF the Palestinians had the same military help from their Arab brethren, Hamas would achieve their goal of pushing all Jews into the sea.
Ever wondered why fellow Arabs don't seem to be big fans, ie Jordan?
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:30 - Nov 21 by dgt73
And why do Hamas think like that ? Oh, Let me think.......?
[Post edited 21 Nov 2014 16:31]
You can carry on with your image of Hamas as cute cuddly freedom fighters if you wish. Most tend to prefer reality.
When those cute cuddly freedom fighters used suicide bombers to target hospitals and universities, co-incidentally targetting establishments where Jew/non Jew mixed fairly cohesively, what was their motivation?
And of course, the reason Hamas think like that is they believe the discreditted Elder Protocols of Zion. Blood libel too. Inconvenient that.
Thre reility is a two state solution is the only solution; even if peace with Israel was achieved, Hamas/Fatah would tear lumps out of each other.
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:35 - Nov 21 by reddythered
You can carry on with your image of Hamas as cute cuddly freedom fighters if you wish. Most tend to prefer reality.
When those cute cuddly freedom fighters used suicide bombers to target hospitals and universities, co-incidentally targetting establishments where Jew/non Jew mixed fairly cohesively, what was their motivation?
And of course, the reason Hamas think like that is they believe the discreditted Elder Protocols of Zion. Blood libel too. Inconvenient that.
Thre reility is a two state solution is the only solution; even if peace with Israel was achieved, Hamas/Fatah would tear lumps out of each other.
Hamas is the government of Palestine.
WTF are they supposed to do then,just sit there and take it?
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:38 - Nov 21 by Lord_Bony
Hamas is the government of Palestine.
WTF are they supposed to do then,just sit there and take it?
You are claiming Hamas terror activities started after winning a faux election? Seriously?
Novel idea. Use the tunnels for aid, not weapons. Stop attacking Israel, work for peace.
EDIT: Hamas are the government of Palestine are they? You certain about that? I think the West Bank might have something to say about that one. Unless you follow the idea Gaza = Palestine, f*** everything else.
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:40 - Nov 21 by reddythered
You are claiming Hamas terror activities started after winning a faux election? Seriously?
Novel idea. Use the tunnels for aid, not weapons. Stop attacking Israel, work for peace.
EDIT: Hamas are the government of Palestine are they? You certain about that? I think the West Bank might have something to say about that one. Unless you follow the idea Gaza = Palestine, f*** everything else.
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:42 - Nov 21 by dgt73
Are you Jewish ?
Nope.
My views in a younger age used to be similar to some espoused here. Then I started researching things rather than spouting the usual socialist inspired rhetoric.
As I keep saying, Jenin. Thousands dead, genocide claimed the PA; worldwide condemnation of evil "Jews".
Except the UN report showed 54 dead Palestinians, not thousands, over half of which were armed; 23 dead IDF. That suggests things were somewhat more even than people with an agenda wanted to portray.
As soon as I saw the footage of the dead Palestinian fall off the stretcher, get up and put himself back on scaring the crap out of the crowd I realised everything wasn't as people wanted to believe.
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:45 - Nov 21 by reddythered
Nope.
My views in a younger age used to be similar to some espoused here. Then I started researching things rather than spouting the usual socialist inspired rhetoric.
As I keep saying, Jenin. Thousands dead, genocide claimed the PA; worldwide condemnation of evil "Jews".
Except the UN report showed 54 dead Palestinians, not thousands, over half of which were armed; 23 dead IDF. That suggests things were somewhat more even than people with an agenda wanted to portray.
As soon as I saw the footage of the dead Palestinian fall off the stretcher, get up and put himself back on scaring the crap out of the crowd I realised everything wasn't as people wanted to believe.
[Post edited 21 Nov 2014 16:46]
FFS get real, the Palestinians are a desperate people, facing a powerful military (financed by the Americans ) lots of what Israel does goes unreported, but soon as the Palestinians do something it makes big news. ( not that i condone killings carried out by the Palestinians )
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:52 - Nov 21 by dgt73
FFS get real, the Palestinians are a desperate people, facing a powerful military (financed by the Americans ) lots of what Israel does goes unreported, but soon as the Palestinians do something it makes big news. ( not that i condone killings carried out by the Palestinians )
Define "Palestinians". Too many here seem to think that term refers only to Gaza citizens, which is wrong.
"Lots of what Israel does goes unreported"? Source? If it goes unreported how precisely would you know about it, hmm Or do you just read anything online and not question if it comes from one side?
Ah, wait. I forgot. Jews clearly control the media, economic system yadda yadda yadda.
Does it not concern you photos from Syria were used as "evidence" of IDF abuses in Gaza? Do you not feel the need to question that?
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 16:56 - Nov 21 by reddythered
Define "Palestinians". Too many here seem to think that term refers only to Gaza citizens, which is wrong.
"Lots of what Israel does goes unreported"? Source? If it goes unreported how precisely would you know about it, hmm Or do you just read anything online and not question if it comes from one side?
Ah, wait. I forgot. Jews clearly control the media, economic system yadda yadda yadda.
Does it not concern you photos from Syria were used as "evidence" of IDF abuses in Gaza? Do you not feel the need to question that?
You're playing with words, ok instead of saying Palestinians how about all the people who are imprisoned by the Jewish state and are all the military operations carried out by Israel reported on the news?
Israel is always seen as the demon in all this ,as its always been, HAMAS now the party of the party the oppressed, the downtrodden, the innocent, well Not all see it that way.
Israel is a sovereign state ...like it or not..
It overareacts to states and people trying, as they admit opemly, to wipre the country from the map. NOW THAT is fact, its the only case in point. Israel reacts or overreacts out of proportion but please no more hamas angel bollocks.
How about HAMAS remove the rockets from schools and from the skirts of womenfolk and see how Isreal reacts then. Just an idea like
The Jerusalem synagogue attack on 17:17 - Nov 21 by perchrockjack
"are you jewish"
Well, I declare . That's pretty revealing.
Israel is always seen as the demon in all this ,as its always been, HAMAS now the party of the party the oppressed, the downtrodden, the innocent, well Not all see it that way.
Israel is a sovereign state ...like it or not..
It overareacts to states and people trying, as they admit opemly, to wipre the country from the map. NOW THAT is fact, its the only case in point. Israel reacts or overreacts out of proportion but please no more hamas angel bollocks.
How about HAMAS remove the rockets from schools and from the skirts of womenfolk and see how Isreal reacts then. Just an idea like
And how about the Americans stopping military aid to Israel.
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