| Leaders debate 18:58 - Jan 26 with 2349 views | trampie |
There is talk that Plaid and the SNP will be in the leaders debate this time round, the last time Plaid and the SNP almost certainly lost votes because they werent given the air time that the big three Westminster British nationalist unionist imperialist parties were given, so much for democracy hey.
Labour will obviously have to be careful what they say but you can guarantee they don't want Plaid or the SNP there even if they cant come out and say it, the Tories want the Greens there as they are not as formidable as Plaid and the SNP and if they did alright [possibly unlikely with their leader] they would hurt Labour, Plaid and the SNP would not hurt the Tories like they could Labour but they could make both look silly, UKIP would probably hurt the Tories and they do have somebody that is good in front of a camera, Lib-Dems could lose votes to everybody or gain votes of everybody, they are slipping at the moment quite badly.
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| Leaders debate on 19:03 - Jan 26 with 1408 views | blueytheblue |
Why should Plaid, SNP be involved in national debates across the whole of Britain?
Both are one nation parties fielding precisely zero candidates in other areas.
Having localised debates involving those parties, sure but both are one trick pony parties with little relevance to the whole of Britain. |  |
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| Leaders debate on 19:12 - Jan 26 with 1400 views | trampie |
| Leaders debate on 19:03 - Jan 26 by blueytheblue |
Why should Plaid, SNP be involved in national debates across the whole of Britain?
Both are one nation parties fielding precisely zero candidates in other areas.
Having localised debates involving those parties, sure but both are one trick pony parties with little relevance to the whole of Britain. |
Because Plaid and the SNP are multi seat winning parties that take part in the British General Election directly against the big Westminster parties [that is not usually the case in Northern Ireland], [Post edited 26 Jan 2015 19:14]
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| Leaders debate on 19:15 - Jan 26 with 1393 views | blueytheblue |
| Leaders debate on 19:12 - Jan 26 by trampie |
Because Plaid and the SNP are multi seat winning parties that take part in the British General Election directly against the big Westminster parties [that is not usually the case in Northern Ireland], [Post edited 26 Jan 2015 19:14]
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And neither are fielding candidates across the whole of Britain.
The other parties you've mentioned are fielding candidates against the whole of Britain.
Big difference. | |
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| Leaders debate on 19:18 - Jan 26 with 1386 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Leaders debate on 19:15 - Jan 26 by blueytheblue |
And neither are fielding candidates across the whole of Britain.
The other parties you've mentioned are fielding candidates against the whole of Britain.
Big difference. |
But Plaid and the SNP field candidates against all the other parties in Wales and Scotland. Not to include them in a national debate would put both those parties at an unfair disadvantage. I'm no supporter of either but they should be included. And it seems they will be. |  |
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| Leaders debate on 19:19 - Jan 26 with 1386 views | trampie |
| Leaders debate on 19:15 - Jan 26 by blueytheblue |
And neither are fielding candidates across the whole of Britain.
The other parties you've mentioned are fielding candidates against the whole of Britain.
Big difference. |
The big Westminster parties dont tend to stand in Northern Ireland. | |
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| Leaders debate on 19:21 - Jan 26 with 1379 views | blueytheblue |
| Leaders debate on 19:18 - Jan 26 by exiledclaseboy |
But Plaid and the SNP field candidates against all the other parties in Wales and Scotland. Not to include them in a national debate would put both those parties at an unfair disadvantage. I'm no supporter of either but they should be included. And it seems they will be. |
So Plaid should be included in a Wales only debate. SNP should be included in a Scottish only debate.
Neither have any relevance or policies for the overwhelming number of voters in the election.
When both field candidates across the whole of Britain ( excepting NI as a different kettle of fish ) then they can be included. | |
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| Leaders debate on 20:16 - Jan 26 with 1343 views | trampie |
| Leaders debate on 19:21 - Jan 26 by blueytheblue |
So Plaid should be included in a Wales only debate. SNP should be included in a Scottish only debate.
Neither have any relevance or policies for the overwhelming number of voters in the election.
When both field candidates across the whole of Britain ( excepting NI as a different kettle of fish ) then they can be included. |
They vote on British matters and not just Welsh and Scottish matters, they could form a coalition Government, they could hold the balance of power. | |
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| Leaders debate on 20:20 - Jan 26 with 1339 views | Kilkennyjack |
Possible of course that Plaid/SNP may hold the balance of power and work with a minority labour govt at uk level. So people across the uk may have an interest. Also both parties have had MPs for decades, unlike UkIP. |  |
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| Leaders debate on 21:04 - Jan 26 with 1317 views | Lord_Bony |
Basically, they are all a bunch o'c*nts..
I neither like nor trust any of them....
good luck with the voting... |  |
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| Leaders debate on 21:11 - Jan 26 with 1311 views | blueytheblue |
Sure, they vote on British matters. That's not the point of the debates, the debates are for putting their position forward to the electorate.
The policies of Plaid and SNP have no relevance to the majority of the electorate, ie England, as they aren't standing there.
If it's a case of going down the "what if" scenarios, well Monster Raving Loonies could get a seat. Unlikely, but... and what about Galloway's ego party? Should he be invited to the debates too? | |
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| Leaders debate on 21:30 - Jan 26 with 1292 views | trampie |
| Leaders debate on 21:11 - Jan 26 by blueytheblue |
Sure, they vote on British matters. That's not the point of the debates, the debates are for putting their position forward to the electorate.
The policies of Plaid and SNP have no relevance to the majority of the electorate, ie England, as they aren't standing there.
If it's a case of going down the "what if" scenarios, well Monster Raving Loonies could get a seat. Unlikely, but... and what about Galloway's ego party? Should he be invited to the debates too? |
They will put their position forward to the electorate , not all parties stand in all the seats, you have already been told about Northern Ireland and now you are trying to cherry pick England alone. | |
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| Leaders debate on 21:31 - Jan 26 with 1291 views | PozuelosSideys |
How anyone can tak ethe SNP seriously right now is beyond me. Their entire economic plan was blown out of the water a whole month after their failure. Had they won their desired exit, theyd be royally funked right now and out with the begging bowl.
Scottish Oil. Cheaper than Irn Bru. |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Leaders debate on 21:40 - Jan 26 with 1280 views | trampie |
Their bankers were going to bet on the price of oil going down to edge their bets, if it go's up they win, if it go's down they win. | |
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| Leaders debate on 21:44 - Jan 26 with 1276 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Leaders debate on 21:40 - Jan 26 by trampie |
Their bankers were going to bet on the price of oil going down to edge their bets, if it go's up they win, if it go's down they win. |
'Hedge' their bets you mean, right?
They dont have any bankers anyway. All the trading is done in London, thered be no infrastructure in EDI until it had all been set up some way down the track. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Leaders debate on 21:59 - Jan 26 with 1259 views | trampie |
| Leaders debate on 21:44 - Jan 26 by PozuelosSideys |
'Hedge' their bets you mean, right?
They dont have any bankers anyway. All the trading is done in London, thered be no infrastructure in EDI until it had all been set up some way down the track. |
You are talking about the Scots now, they invented most things and would be right on the ball when it comes to money, they have a well respected financial sector, including names like Bank of Scotland, Scottish Widows, Standard Life, Baillie Gifford, Aberdeen Asset Management, as well as others that have a connection like Royal Bank of Scotland , Aviva Insurance, Scottish Equitable and Clydesdale Bank etc etc | |
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| Leaders debate on 22:09 - Jan 26 with 1247 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Leaders debate on 21:59 - Jan 26 by trampie |
You are talking about the Scots now, they invented most things and would be right on the ball when it comes to money, they have a well respected financial sector, including names like Bank of Scotland, Scottish Widows, Standard Life, Baillie Gifford, Aberdeen Asset Management, as well as others that have a connection like Royal Bank of Scotland , Aviva Insurance, Scottish Equitable and Clydesdale Bank etc etc |
Aye. And most of those, if not all of them trade on the FTSE. Majority based in London too, if not in name. A couple of pension managers, a legal business and a few retail banks wont cut it.
Even RBS no longer does much trading as theyve pretty much wound down their GBM business at the request of charming George O. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Leaders debate on 22:18 - Jan 26 with 1240 views | trampie |
| Leaders debate on 22:09 - Jan 26 by PozuelosSideys |
Aye. And most of those, if not all of them trade on the FTSE. Majority based in London too, if not in name. A couple of pension managers, a legal business and a few retail banks wont cut it.
Even RBS no longer does much trading as theyve pretty much wound down their GBM business at the request of charming George O. |
Their financial institutions and knowhow would have been fine for a relatively small county just starting out. | |
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| Leaders debate on 22:19 - Jan 26 with 1238 views | Woodvale |
In my opinion none of the provincial parties should be part of a debate, generally for the reasons given above. However in this election these parties will hold the balance of power so do have an important role in national matters- not just some outback in Wales/Scotland/NI that they are representing.
It is however interesting the way each party is pitching for their position on any potential show- probably the best case being that of the DUP by virtue of having more MPs than SNP, Plaid and UTwits.
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| Leaders debate on 22:28 - Jan 26 with 1231 views | blueytheblue |
| Leaders debate on 21:30 - Jan 26 by trampie |
They will put their position forward to the electorate , not all parties stand in all the seats, you have already been told about Northern Ireland and now you are trying to cherry pick England alone. |
NI is somewhat different due to the political and religious scenario, no?
You're right that not all parties contest all seats. SNP have zero candidates in Wales or England. Plaid have zero candidates in Scotland and England. Both are single country parties by definition...
In a British political context both are meaningless other than propping governments up in votes. Let them engage in debates in the countries they stand in, where their arguments will be more relevant. | |
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| Leaders debate on 00:04 - Jan 27 with 1184 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Leaders debate on 22:18 - Jan 26 by trampie |
Their financial institutions and knowhow would have been fine for a relatively small county just starting out. |
oh come on Trampie, they couldn't even accurately draw a maritime border.
Never has a man been so terrified as Alex Salmond a week before the referendum. He was petrified that they might win which was a scenario he never anticipated and certainly didn't want.
All major financial institutions would have moved South of the Border, the Bank of England would have prevented them from using sterling (the English voters would not have put up with the alternative), north sea oil (even with the proper border, which allocated the oil reserves somewhat differently from the SNP forecasts) would have now been worth less than half of projections, and Scotland would already have been buggered. Enormous reliance on UK public services (which would have relocated). Never mind, people like Sean (never lived in Scotland since he had a bit of dosh) Connery would have been on TV wearing a kilt. | | | |
| Leaders debate on 00:13 - Jan 27 with 1179 views | trampie |
Oh come on Llundain Lisa, if Scotland was a basket case why was the English in particular trying to keep it ?, why would the English make themselves poorer to keep Scotland ?, if the English are subsidising the Scots wouldn't it make sense for the English not to scaremonger to try and keep them in the union ?
Sterling is as much Scotland's currency as anyone else's. [Post edited 27 Jan 2015 0:17]
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| Leaders debate on 00:19 - Jan 27 with 1168 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Leaders debate on 00:13 - Jan 27 by trampie |
Oh come on Llundain Lisa, if Scotland was a basket case why was the English in particular trying to keep it ?, why would the English make themselves poorer to keep Scotland ?, if the English are subsidising the Scots wouldn't it make sense for the English not to scaremonger to try and keep them in the union ?
Sterling is as much Scotland's currency as anyone else's. [Post edited 27 Jan 2015 0:17]
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The Conservatives were trying to keep it because they are the Conservative and Unionist party. The Labour party were trying to keep it because of the seat that they would lose if Scotland went alone.
The people of England didn't give much of a toss (actually all the people I know would have been quite glad to see the back of Scotland, apart from those with some sort of connection). It is a matter of fact that England subsidises Scotland.
And no it's not. | | | |
| Leaders debate on 00:26 - Jan 27 with 1163 views | trampie |
| Leaders debate on 00:19 - Jan 27 by londonlisa2001 |
The Conservatives were trying to keep it because they are the Conservative and Unionist party. The Labour party were trying to keep it because of the seat that they would lose if Scotland went alone.
The people of England didn't give much of a toss (actually all the people I know would have been quite glad to see the back of Scotland, apart from those with some sort of connection). It is a matter of fact that England subsidises Scotland.
And no it's not. |
The main parties are trying to make England poorer and Scotland richer are they, that's nice of them isn't it ? | |
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| Leaders debate on 00:37 - Jan 27 with 1154 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Leaders debate on 00:26 - Jan 27 by trampie |
The main parties are trying to make England poorer and Scotland richer are they, that's nice of them isn't it ? |
You have to remember that they are all, at heart, fundamentally self interested.
If you truly believe that they operate for the greater good of the country as a whole even if at their own expense then you're naive.
Don't forget that for the main parties, it doesn't make any difference overall, where the pot sits between one area of the country or another. There is an overall pot, an overall tax take, and overall public expenditure budget. Why should it matter whether that is spent in Newcastle or Glasgow if it earns them a few votes and an extra seat or two? The conservatives' agenda is more one of principle than seats, but the same applies.
The main parties in Wales are all trying to make Cardiff richer at the expense of every other part of Wales as well. But until everywhere else says enough is enough and stops voting them all in like sheep every time then it will continue. The subsidy of Scotland by the rest of the UK (and the subsidy is also from Wales don't forget, who lose out massively to the Scots currently) can continue until there is enough uproar in the rest of the UK. It's beginning to stir currently on both the conservative back benches and also from Plaid. No self respecting Welsh person should have any sympathy whatsoever with the SNP and Scottish Nationalism. They proved in the referendum that they see Wales as an absolute irrelevance, and they will continue to do so if they have any power whatsoever after the election. Absolute bunch of ar**holes. [Post edited 27 Jan 2015 0:38]
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