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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 19:40 - May 11 by Taweboi
Plaid hasn't done a deal with anyone. They told Carwyn Jones yesterday that they'd be proposing Leanne for First Minister because Labour refused to discuss any cooperation with Plaid for the term of this Assembly, although they have no majority. The Tories and UKIP decided independently to support Leanne to show Labour that they can't just take other parties for granted. A shot across Labour's bows. Labour has chosen to govern as a minority government. That's their right, but they have to accept the risks, too, in a multi-party democracy.
The facts don't seem to be on your side, mate.
You now have multiple parties publicly admitting they have coerced with one another to get a Plaid First Minister. The only way that would happen is if policy was ceded to one another. That is a fact.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 19:50 - May 11 with 1298 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 19:35 - May 11 by Kerouac
She attempted to do exactly what Alex Salmond did in Scotland.
When you are the smaller, newer, party you; a) don't have the broad base support of the electorate and the accompanying boost to number of activists etc. b) don't have anywhere near the same amount of resources at your disposal (e.g. the Labour party bus-ing members from England in to campaign and knock doors in these Welsh elections just gone) & c) Don't have the same profile or platform in the media.
Salmond seized his chance to form a rainbow coalition in Scotland which meant that he was the First Minister....which gave him the platform to increase his profile and grow support for the party.....when the tide began to turn in the SNP's favour the donors coming forward and the campaign resources generated from the increased membership increased. The next election they won and they've been in government ever since.
Totally cynical....not a lot to do with principles. The ends justify the means. When you are single minded (a nationalist yearning for independence) it is easier to hold your nose.
We have always respected the electorate and done the right thing. We have been shat on for it.
On the coalition deal.....you are only seeing things from your point of view. If you were an English Tory voter whose party had secured the most votes and the most seats you wouldn't feel like that. In a first past the post system it was fair that the Tories were the dominant partner in a coalition government in 2010. If we moved to PR then that would be a different matter and we would pretty much always have a coalition government.
I was a major critic of Clegg's decision to enter coalition in 2010. Mainly because the policies i voted for in 2010 (I voted LibDem) were so diametrically opposed to what Cameron's Tories stood for I could not comprehend how they could co-exist. The only reason it lasted five years is because the LibDems were so politically naive they allowed themselves to be exploited and ridiculed at every turn, getting none of the credit for the few coalition successes and taking all the flak for the regular disasters. And all the while abandoning every major policy that led me to vote for them in the first place. But I do give them partial credit because they did serve to reign in the Tories' worst excesses as we're now seeing. And I say that as a huge and long standing advocate of PR and by extension a natural supporter of proper coalition government
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 19:50 - May 11 by exiledclaseboy
I was a major critic of Clegg's decision to enter coalition in 2010. Mainly because the policies i voted for in 2010 (I voted LibDem) were so diametrically opposed to what Cameron's Tories stood for I could not comprehend how they could co-exist. The only reason it lasted five years is because the LibDems were so politically naive they allowed themselves to be exploited and ridiculed at every turn, getting none of the credit for the few coalition successes and taking all the flak for the regular disasters. And all the while abandoning every major policy that led me to vote for them in the first place. But I do give them partial credit because they did serve to reign in the Tories' worst excesses as we're now seeing. And I say that as a huge and long standing advocate of PR and by extension a natural supporter of proper coalition government
We were not naive. We were ridiculed at every turn and were not given any credit for our policies (which were working) because most of the UK media has a Tory bias and what is left is populated by the to cool for school Labour bourgeoisie. We were attacked from all sides.
The coalition lasted 5 years because we were led by dignified, determined leaders who see the big picture and do the right thing.
Re: your disappointment at "Clegg's decision" to form the coalition.
When you chose to vote Lib Dem, how did you envisage us putting that(/some of that) policy into action? By winning a majority?
Now tell me, who is naive?
Re: Your support for PR
Don't you realise that even under PR a coalition government will be formed by 2 or more parties.....the junior partners of which have to make the most compromises, and yes do deals with people who you disagree vehemently with.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 20:18 - May 11 by Kerouac
We were not naive. We were ridiculed at every turn and were not given any credit for our policies (which were working) because most of the UK media has a Tory bias and what is left is populated by the to cool for school Labour bourgeoisie. We were attacked from all sides.
The coalition lasted 5 years because we were led by dignified, determined leaders who see the big picture and do the right thing.
Re: your disappointment at "Clegg's decision" to form the coalition.
When you chose to vote Lib Dem, how did you envisage us putting that(/some of that) policy into action? By winning a majority?
Now tell me, who is naive?
Re: Your support for PR
Don't you realise that even under PR a coalition government will be formed by 2 or more parties.....the junior partners of which have to make the most compromises, and yes do deals with people who you disagree vehemently with.
Yes, they were naive. I saw at first hand many times how LibDem ministers were set up as fall guys for unpopular announcements while always sidelined for anything eye catching.
I didn't envisage the LibDems being able to put their policies into practice. I voted for them on the basis that they were the party i identified with most at that time. My vote in Swansea West made very little difference. That's the sacrifice you make when faced with an undemocratic electoral system.
Coalition under PR will be much more even than under FPTP resulting in proper compromise. Nothing like the 2010 one which was essentially a numbers exercise. As a Libdem you'll no doubt be familiar with alternative systems and the results they create.
I agree that many of the good things the coalition did were based on versions of LibDem policies. Haven't said they deserve no credit.
Any chance you could dial down the condescension in your next reply? Ta.
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 19:46 - May 11 by nice_to_michu
The facts don't seem to be on your side, mate.
You now have multiple parties publicly admitting they have coerced with one another to get a Plaid First Minister. The only way that would happen is if policy was ceded to one another. That is a fact.
As its a fact - what has exactly has been agreed then ?
Sounds like old Carwyn rushed in, rather than take time to speak to the other progressive parties. Sounds like Plaid nominated their leader which is standard. Plaid Informed the other parties, who then decided to back Leanne rather than their own leaders - and hand the gig to Carwyn. Sounds like Carwyn will now have to speak to the progressive parties after all.
If anybody thinks that Mrs Wood would make any deals with the Tories or UKIP then they do not know Mrs Wood.
Beware of the Risen People
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 21:10 - May 11 with 1226 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 20:51 - May 11 by Kilkennyjack
As its a fact - what has exactly has been agreed then ?
Sounds like old Carwyn rushed in, rather than take time to speak to the other progressive parties. Sounds like Plaid nominated their leader which is standard. Plaid Informed the other parties, who then decided to back Leanne rather than their own leaders - and hand the gig to Carwyn. Sounds like Carwyn will now have to speak to the progressive parties after all.
If anybody thinks that Mrs Wood would make any deals with the Tories or UKIP then they do not know Mrs Wood.
Nice spin.
How naive can you be to think that the Tories and UKIP would just agree to nominate Leanne Wood and not expect something in return? I literally cannot get my head around how naive an opinion that is.
If Kirsty Williams voted for Leanne Wood, we would have Leanne Wood as first minister despite only having one-fifth of the Assembly seats. How can you possibly think that the other parties would just accept that and not get policy concessions and ministerial positions as a result of their support?
I'm sorry you had the wool pulled over your eyes by a "socialist" like Leanne Wood? I don't know what else to tell you.
[Post edited 11 May 2016 21:12]
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 21:13 - May 11 with 1211 views
"On May 5th, Wales chose not to elect one single party to govern Wales with a majority. As is the convention, the biggest party were given an opportunity to reach an agreement on forming a government which could lead Wales with the support of the majority of members in the National Assembly. They took the decision not to pursue that option, and were not prepared to give the process of negotiation any further time. As a result, the Plaid Cymru group followed normal Parliamentary protocol and nominated Leanne Wood for First Minister. Carwyn Jones was informed of this decision yesterday. Since that time, and as far as Plaid Cymru is aware, there have been no formal discussions, agreements or deals pursued between any party. This afternoon, the Assembly failed to reach agreement on who should become First Minister and form the next government. It is now for the parties to discuss this matter further in order to seek the best outcome for Wales."
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 21:16 - May 11 with 1201 views
"On May 5th, Wales chose not to elect one single party to govern Wales with a majority. As is the convention, the biggest party were given an opportunity to reach an agreement on forming a government which could lead Wales with the support of the majority of members in the National Assembly. They took the decision not to pursue that option, and were not prepared to give the process of negotiation any further time. As a result, the Plaid Cymru group followed normal Parliamentary protocol and nominated Leanne Wood for First Minister. Carwyn Jones was informed of this decision yesterday. Since that time, and as far as Plaid Cymru is aware, there have been no formal discussions, agreements or deals pursued between any party. This afternoon, the Assembly failed to reach agreement on who should become First Minister and form the next government. It is now for the parties to discuss this matter further in order to seek the best outcome for Wales."
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 20:51 - May 11 by Kilkennyjack
As its a fact - what has exactly has been agreed then ?
Sounds like old Carwyn rushed in, rather than take time to speak to the other progressive parties. Sounds like Plaid nominated their leader which is standard. Plaid Informed the other parties, who then decided to back Leanne rather than their own leaders - and hand the gig to Carwyn. Sounds like Carwyn will now have to speak to the progressive parties after all.
If anybody thinks that Mrs Wood would make any deals with the Tories or UKIP then they do not know Mrs Wood.
I'm sorry Kilkenny but all the noises indicate that this is simply not true.
This is a huge mistake that will backfire spectacularly because they are bad politicians.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 21:41 - May 11 with 1171 views
The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 20:42 - May 11 by exiledclaseboy
Yes, they were naive. I saw at first hand many times how LibDem ministers were set up as fall guys for unpopular announcements while always sidelined for anything eye catching.
I didn't envisage the LibDems being able to put their policies into practice. I voted for them on the basis that they were the party i identified with most at that time. My vote in Swansea West made very little difference. That's the sacrifice you make when faced with an undemocratic electoral system.
Coalition under PR will be much more even than under FPTP resulting in proper compromise. Nothing like the 2010 one which was essentially a numbers exercise. As a Libdem you'll no doubt be familiar with alternative systems and the results they create.
I agree that many of the good things the coalition did were based on versions of LibDem policies. Haven't said they deserve no credit.
Any chance you could dial down the condescension in your next reply? Ta.
I was a member of the Lib Dems (and its predecessors) for 21 years before quitting in 2008. Our Social Democratic party had elected Orange Bookers into the leadership, so I knew that the party had swung away from me.
I will not understand people who joined the party under Ashdown/Kennedy/Campbell suddenly be happy to work under Clegg. Nothing against the bloke personally, just that the economic liberalism and soft right policies were not for me.
We campaigned to the left of New Labour. The ridiculous Student Fees pledge undermined everything they achieved in Government.
This lack of focus and strategic direction led to the Tories royally tearing them a new one in the coalition negotiations. Even the promises they made - they reneged on .
Even P1ssed out of his head, Kennedy would still have retained more integrity and agreed an informal relationship. He loathed Tories.
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The 2016 Assembly Elections: Which way will you be voting & why? on 22:07 - May 11 with 1160 views
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