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It would be a more accurate historical account if all sources were made available, not just the ones that the Church decided to put in while making sure the others didn't see the light of day.
All religions are used as a way of controlling the population - it has always been the case. Irrespective of whether a belief in any sort of 'God' has any basis in reality, the fact that someone does or doesn't believe that a 'Son of God' walked the earth depending on where in the world they are born, really doesn't make much sense if you think about it with any degree of rationality.
Yes, that's a valid point. However, the Church as an "official" body didn't exist until the first Council of Nicea, and while some form of cannon law would have existed the main "editing" took place during the seven ecumenical councils. So most of the documents if not all the epistles or cannons would have been locked away in some library or other. As you know it's pivotal in Christianity to keep records of ordinations, consecations etc etc in order to prove the validity of such ordinations regarding Apostolic succession and so on. We know for a fact that Saints David , Teilo and Padarn of Wales were consecrated bishops (David as Metropolitan or Archbishop of Menevia) in Jerusalem by Patriarch John the third. It's in the records.
So the point I'm making is after taking g that into account - do the epistles count as historical documents? And if not, why not?
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
And therein lies the inherent flaw in your argument. The state of Egypt was completely dominated by its religion and therefore had true civic and legal power to encourage and of course enforce it.
Christianity on the other hand had to endure 325 years of persecution before Constantine convened the first Ecumenical council of Nicea . Of course it waxed and waned but Christians mostly lived in fear for that period.
It wasn't the state region of Judea (they were persecuted by the Jews obviously) so to be fair it survived with no help from any official, civic or government help.
The exact opposite.
Come on now Brynny, have a think why what you wrote there is completely blinkered.
Who is Zeitgeist? lost me there pal. It is a well known point of view.
We aren't talking about the New Testament, we are talking about ''historians'' documents around the time of Jesus (supposedly). None of them mention him by name. They mention The Christos (not written in Greek) the exact word fro memory is ''mashiyach'' which is Hebrew, translated which means anointed, hence the mistranslation when translated to Greek as you have just displayed.
And how do you deduce ΧÏιστός is a mistranslation of the Hebrew Masinyach ? Are you fluent in both?
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
The Roman's had to execute thousands in an effort to wipe out Christianity ( the only disciple to die of old age was John the Evangelist, even then the Roman's had tried to poison him and torture him).
I find it quite puzzling why someone would choose to be brutally tortured and then executed (as the rest of them were) instead of just saying "yes tribune, I made it all up honest guv. He really was just a very naughty boy".
Indeed... The whole concept appears to be what happens after you die and the reward if that's the right driver.
Jesus and the others died for their beliefs. So emphasis is about what happens when your gone maybe while your here !?!
ISIS is quite similar you could say... I will blow myself up so I can be in paradise with a coachload of virgins (can't say that sounds appealing ) :) is their mentality
So if Jesus was right then there is quite a bit of sacrifice needed now to reap something when you're gone. If Jesus was fibbing then your life here is living in hope only.
Jesus existing seems quite nailed on (so to speak) :) most historians and religions acknowledge his existence and footprint in history. How an individual views him or chooses to believe his claims or not could be an interesting future meet over a fish sandwich with a drop of red.
And how do you deduce ΧÏιστός is a mistranslation of the Hebrew Masinyach ? Are you fluent in both?
Because I can read, the same way as you were not around for the birth of Jesus to state it was in the September. Let's have the same rules for our answers please otherwise we won't get anywhere.
Yes it is fascinating. Thousands of years ago there was ni media communication and people relied on things such as the Sun for warmth, protection, food. Stars to navigate and to keep track of the seasons vital to support their life. Which is why people worshipped these things. Making sacrifices to Sun God's in fallow years etc. There is every reason that the suns journey was made into a story handed down by generations to track its yearly progress as it was so vital to life. Unfortunately it has since become into a religion and people have taken it literally, millions of deaths and war upon war later and we find ourselves here. Man is a strange beast.
Yes. But during the time of Christ the world had come quite a long way. There was media of a sort , not as we know it obviously. Ideas were spread around and polytheism was the dominant religion almost everywhere.
The Jew's were possibly the only group to worship one God unless you count the Egyptians under the rule of Akenahten. But that was well over a thousand years before Christ.
One question though. If the harvests failed in ancient times - are you saying there wasn't conflict due to lack of resources IE starvation?
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
Because I can read, the same way as you were not around for the birth of Jesus to state it was in the September. Let's have the same rules for our answers please otherwise we won't get anywhere.
Now... back to the jews.
[Post edited 15 Apr 2017 11:34]
Can you point me to where ΧÏιστός is denounced as a mistranslation of the Hebrew Misynach then I.e. where you read it? I'll try to find you a link for the school of thought on the September birth.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
Because I can read, the same way as you were not around for the birth of Jesus to state it was in the September. Let's have the same rules for our answers please otherwise we won't get anywhere.
Indeed... The whole concept appears to be what happens after you die and the reward if that's the right driver.
Jesus and the others died for their beliefs. So emphasis is about what happens when your gone maybe while your here !?!
ISIS is quite similar you could say... I will blow myself up so I can be in paradise with a coachload of virgins (can't say that sounds appealing ) :) is their mentality
So if Jesus was right then there is quite a bit of sacrifice needed now to reap something when you're gone. If Jesus was fibbing then your life here is living in hope only.
Jesus existing seems quite nailed on (so to speak) :) most historians and religions acknowledge his existence and footprint in history. How an individual views him or chooses to believe his claims or not could be an interesting future meet over a fish sandwich with a drop of red.
Well it's true that ISIS do die for their beliefs. But only after they usually managed to kill as many non believers in the act as a consequence.
Jesus didn't die because of his beliefs.
The disciples and apostles died because they believed in his divinity.
As far as I know none of them took out anyone else in the process.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
Even atheist scholar's agree Jesus was a real person it's just the son of God bit they have trouble with
True that. One of the people mentioned in the article published a book countering some of the "myth" arguments.
An interesting theological debate, although ultimately less important than the other baggage around religion and what that leads to (comfort for some maybe, but also guilt, power, control and hijacked by nutters to do stupid things).
''As far as I know none of them took out anyone else in the process.''....or existed.
Sorry for adding to the quote, but I just can't help that when people are talking about the bible as historical fact.
Well only St Stephen and St Peter as far as I can remember have their deaths recorded in the epistles. So all the others had to have been recorded somewhere. Where is the question, I'll have a good look later on. So it's not only the Bible that counts as an historical source.
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
Indeed... The whole concept appears to be what happens after you die and the reward if that's the right driver.
Jesus and the others died for their beliefs. So emphasis is about what happens when your gone maybe while your here !?!
ISIS is quite similar you could say... I will blow myself up so I can be in paradise with a coachload of virgins (can't say that sounds appealing ) :) is their mentality
So if Jesus was right then there is quite a bit of sacrifice needed now to reap something when you're gone. If Jesus was fibbing then your life here is living in hope only.
Jesus existing seems quite nailed on (so to speak) :) most historians and religions acknowledge his existence and footprint in history. How an individual views him or chooses to believe his claims or not could be an interesting future meet over a fish sandwich with a drop of red.
Isis was also an Egyptian goddess.
'I am Isis, mistress of the whole land; I was instructed by Hermes, and with Hermes I invented the writings of the nations, in order that not all should write with the same letters. I gave mankind their laws, and ordained what no one can alter. I am the eldest daughter of Kronos. I am the wife and sister of the king Osiris. I am she who rises in the dog star. I am she who is called the goddess of women.'
Manly P Hall - The Secret Teachings of all Ages, 1928
The 'dog star' is Sirius.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever.
Tacitus mentions a Jesus Christ in his roman history... so I do think he lived. I think he was a loud guy who along with some other christians were great scape goats for the arson of rome, and promptly executed to qual the civil unrest...
Tacitus mentions a Jesus Christ in his roman history... so I do think he lived. I think he was a loud guy who along with some other christians were great scape goats for the arson of rome, and promptly executed to qual the civil unrest...
*shrugs*
Are you sure he didn't just say Christos as apparently there were dozens of em knocking around at the time.......
And are you sure Tacitus wasn't one of the epistle writers? Because that won't count see
PS happy Easter phactori !
[Post edited 16 Apr 2017 8:47]
Each time I go to Bedd - au........................
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