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Amazing how similar they are in PL and International football when considering Gylfi takes most free kicks and corners, I expected it to be a much bigger weighting toward the Icelandic. I wonder what the breakdown is of dead ball assists to open play assists and same with goal tally..
Would be a great comparison when situations that Ayew does not contribute to (set pieces) are removed so they are judged on their overall open-play game contribution.
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 16:44 - Jan 8 by Darran
Kerouac seriously Mate don’t bother the blokes got a screw loose.
Who has?
You think there is a major difference in open play contribution between the both? Judging the fact we know Gylfi takes most, those stats suggest otherwise.
Although I imagine you are just trolling as it hurts you everytime I am am proved correct.
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 16:41 - Jan 8 by E20Jack
Great stats there.
Amazing how similar they are in PL and International football when considering Gylfi takes most free kicks and corners, I expected it to be a much bigger weighting toward the Icelandic. I wonder what the breakdown is of dead ball assists to open play assists and same with goal tally..
Would be a great comparison when situations that Ayew does not contribute to (set pieces) are removed so they are judged on their overall open-play game contribution.
Similar
Trolling
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Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 18:50 - Jan 8 with 1556 views
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 18:31 - Jan 8 by 34dfgdf54
Similar
Trolling
Is trolling the new buzzword when someone doesn't understand a point? Or saying something that someone doesn't want to hear? Seems to be making a comeback.
Are you telling me that looking at those stats - if we compare open play contribution, stats will not be similar?
I will give an example:-
Gylfi Sigurdsson has scored 23 penalties. Jordan Ayew has scored 7. Wonder how many free kicks are added to that list in terms of goals and assists, then add in the corners.
Nobody is disputing he is an excellent set piece player. But to command a £45m fee you have to more than just that. So explain how you think I am ''trolling'' by stating that in open play, their stats will clearly be similar.
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 18:50 - Jan 8 by E20Jack
Is trolling the new buzzword when someone doesn't understand a point? Or saying something that someone doesn't want to hear? Seems to be making a comeback.
Are you telling me that looking at those stats - if we compare open play contribution, stats will not be similar?
I will give an example:-
Gylfi Sigurdsson has scored 23 penalties. Jordan Ayew has scored 7. Wonder how many free kicks are added to that list in terms of goals and assists, then add in the corners.
Nobody is disputing he is an excellent set piece player. But to command a £45m fee you have to more than just that. So explain how you think I am ''trolling'' by stating that in open play, their stats will clearly be similar.
Please explain.
[Post edited 8 Jan 2018 18:55]
We both know there’s no there’s no contest between the two, Jordan would probably say so himself.
You talk (post) a lot, but never actually give an opinion on anything.
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Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 18:56 - Jan 8 with 1550 views
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 19:02 - Jan 8 by 34dfgdf54
Have you got the stats from open play handy?
I don't, pretty hard to get hold of.
I think Gylfi has scored between 15-17 direct free kicks in his career (hard to get a firm number). So that is 40 goals from penalties or free kicks.
I dont know of Jordan Ayew being a direct free kick taker at any of his clubs, if you find any then please feel free to remove them from his tally.
But taking away set pieces we know of in terms of direct goals - they have both scored around 38 from open play, Jordan reaching that tally with far less games of course.
I would imagine the result would be similar if we took away set pieces for assists, common sense suggests the majority of assists would come from a corner or free kick. Hardly any of Ayews will have.
E20 you are willfully ignoring some important factors.
1 - Siggy plays in midfield for Iceland, Attacking Mid or stuck out on the left for his clubs. Ayew has played most of his career up front.
2 - Ayew's stats are boosted from playing for a strong club (Marseille) in a shit league (Ligue 1)...and he is still behind the midfielder in goals and assists.
and
3 - The very fact that Siggy has played over 200 games in the Premier League (and clocked up shitloads of minutes as he started and finished most of those games) is in itself an achievement. A stamp of quality if you will. He has been performing at the top level for YEARS. For Ayew to clock up 200 appearances in the Prem he'd have to be a 1st team regular for us (I'm imagining a heroic escape from relegation for a second here!) for another 4+ seasons
...and let's take a look at those Prem stats in a bit more detail, they are the most important because it is the fairest comparison in terms of quality of team mates and quality of opposition faced, comparing apples with apples;
Premier League only
Games played Siggy = 202 Ayew = 66
Goals Siggy = 44 Ayew = 11
Assists Siggy = 36 Ayew = 5
Siggy scores 1 goal in 5 games. Ayew 1 goal in 6...and he plays striker.
Siggy assists roughly 1 goal in 6 games. Ayew assists 1 goal in 13 games.
...and I know what you are going to come back with, "free-kicks", "pens".
There is a reason that Siggy takes free-kicks and Ayew doesn't. It is because Siggy is superb at it and Ayew is shite. If Ayew took free-kicks why would you assume that this would increase his goals and assists tally significantly? His coaches haven't thought so.
The same argument applies to pens but I have more sympathy for your argument here. It is true that Ayew would have scored a few more goals if he took pens...take Siggy's off his total if you like, I bet there wasn't many...he played for us during most of his Prem years and we have got f*ck all off refs since we arrived in this division.
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 23:17 - Jan 8 by Kerouac
E20 you are willfully ignoring some important factors.
1 - Siggy plays in midfield for Iceland, Attacking Mid or stuck out on the left for his clubs. Ayew has played most of his career up front.
2 - Ayew's stats are boosted from playing for a strong club (Marseille) in a shit league (Ligue 1)...and he is still behind the midfielder in goals and assists.
and
3 - The very fact that Siggy has played over 200 games in the Premier League (and clocked up shitloads of minutes as he started and finished most of those games) is in itself an achievement. A stamp of quality if you will. He has been performing at the top level for YEARS. For Ayew to clock up 200 appearances in the Prem he'd have to be a 1st team regular for us (I'm imagining a heroic escape from relegation for a second here!) for another 4+ seasons
...and let's take a look at those Prem stats in a bit more detail, they are the most important because it is the fairest comparison in terms of quality of team mates and quality of opposition faced, comparing apples with apples;
Premier League only
Games played Siggy = 202 Ayew = 66
Goals Siggy = 44 Ayew = 11
Assists Siggy = 36 Ayew = 5
Siggy scores 1 goal in 5 games. Ayew 1 goal in 6...and he plays striker.
Siggy assists roughly 1 goal in 6 games. Ayew assists 1 goal in 13 games.
...and I know what you are going to come back with, "free-kicks", "pens".
There is a reason that Siggy takes free-kicks and Ayew doesn't. It is because Siggy is superb at it and Ayew is shite. If Ayew took free-kicks why would you assume that this would increase his goals and assists tally significantly? His coaches haven't thought so.
The same argument applies to pens but I have more sympathy for your argument here. It is true that Ayew would have scored a few more goals if he took pens...take Siggy's off his total if you like, I bet there wasn't many...he played for us during most of his Prem years and we have got f*ck all off refs since we arrived in this division.
I am not ignoring anything mate.
1. Attacking mid is Gylfis main position or indeed on the left (as Ayew is on the right) - AYEW IS NOT A STRIKER. Gylfi also takes the penalties for them (Iceland) - 2 in the same game just looking at their last few. Ayew has not spent most of his career up front, at Villa he was wide attack with Gestede up front, now he is right wide attack with Bony/Abraham up front - just as Siggy was when he was here, but on the left. He is shoehorned into a forward position when they are not available (just as Siggy was also).
2. My comparison was International and Premier League level, Marseille doesnt come into it. I still dont accept one is a striker and one is a midfield player, neither are strikers and both are attacking players.
3. Siggy playing 200 games of course is an achievement, as is Ayew playing for Marseille as you just claimed. I dont think it is something to suggest he is better due to, his circumstances led him to come to the Premier League earlier than Ayew. Messi has never played in the Premier league for example. Ayew also has more PL appearances than Paul Pogba.
4. Premier League stats - yep will absolutely come back with pens and free kicks. We have all said that Gylfi is a superb free kick taker, but £45m for a free kick taker is too much of course. Many players dont take free kicks or take pens, Luis Suarez doesnt take free kicks, Michu didnt take free kicks, Pogba doesnt take free kicks, Dele Alli doesnt take free kicks and many of them dont take pens
5. Example - If Gylfi was at Man United he may take their set pieces too - but the likes of Pogba would still be better than him, but due to Gylfi taking penalties amd free kicks he may well still score more than Pogba and assist more than Pogba as a result. But he wouldn't be the better player, he would just be the better set piece taker. Pogba would still have better open play stats as a result, so to combine them would be foolish.
6. "Not scoring many pens" - Gylfi has scored more penalties than free kicks (23 penalties). 30% of Gylfis goals are penalties.
7. We all agree who is the best set piece player. I think we are unanimous. So we have moved on to see who is the best in open play, it would be ridiculous to add set piece goals and assists into a comparison in open play. That is common sense yes? So from open play, they look just as effective as eachother - Ayew more so.
Pretty clear from these videos that Siggy is nowhere close to a "set piece merchant" or any of that idiotic bbullshitt spouted on here by a few trolls.
Even more obvious that the focus/reliance on dead balls last season was because of the overall lack of quality in the squad and Llorente's supreme proficiency in that area. Not because that's all Siggy can do. Check out the videos below or just look at the stats:
Open play Pre-Llorente 20/27 goals - 74% 13/16 assists - 81%
Total 25/37 goals - 68% 18/29 assists - 62%
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Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 05:59 - Jan 9 with 1425 views
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 15:49 - Jan 7 by monmouth
My wife swapped a bmw for a Kia and has never regretted it for a single second and would never swap back.
And no, Jordan Ayew is not a better player than Gylfi Sigurdsson, but Gylfi Sigurdsson would not have saved us this year either. Not a cat's chance in hell. Unless we spend 37m better, I would rather he were here though, we were his level.
Your wife swapped a BMW for a Kia?
That's a really, really sshittyy deal, Monmouth.
Fair play, though, Mercedes is where it's at.
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Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 06:06 - Jan 9 with 1419 views
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 00:44 - Jan 9 by E20Jack
I am not ignoring anything mate.
1. Attacking mid is Gylfis main position or indeed on the left (as Ayew is on the right) - AYEW IS NOT A STRIKER. Gylfi also takes the penalties for them (Iceland) - 2 in the same game just looking at their last few. Ayew has not spent most of his career up front, at Villa he was wide attack with Gestede up front, now he is right wide attack with Bony/Abraham up front - just as Siggy was when he was here, but on the left. He is shoehorned into a forward position when they are not available (just as Siggy was also).
2. My comparison was International and Premier League level, Marseille doesnt come into it. I still dont accept one is a striker and one is a midfield player, neither are strikers and both are attacking players.
3. Siggy playing 200 games of course is an achievement, as is Ayew playing for Marseille as you just claimed. I dont think it is something to suggest he is better due to, his circumstances led him to come to the Premier League earlier than Ayew. Messi has never played in the Premier league for example. Ayew also has more PL appearances than Paul Pogba.
4. Premier League stats - yep will absolutely come back with pens and free kicks. We have all said that Gylfi is a superb free kick taker, but £45m for a free kick taker is too much of course. Many players dont take free kicks or take pens, Luis Suarez doesnt take free kicks, Michu didnt take free kicks, Pogba doesnt take free kicks, Dele Alli doesnt take free kicks and many of them dont take pens
5. Example - If Gylfi was at Man United he may take their set pieces too - but the likes of Pogba would still be better than him, but due to Gylfi taking penalties amd free kicks he may well still score more than Pogba and assist more than Pogba as a result. But he wouldn't be the better player, he would just be the better set piece taker. Pogba would still have better open play stats as a result, so to combine them would be foolish.
6. "Not scoring many pens" - Gylfi has scored more penalties than free kicks (23 penalties). 30% of Gylfis goals are penalties.
7. We all agree who is the best set piece player. I think we are unanimous. So we have moved on to see who is the best in open play, it would be ridiculous to add set piece goals and assists into a comparison in open play. That is common sense yes? So from open play, they look just as effective as eachother - Ayew more so.
Not sure what there is to disagree with really.
[Post edited 9 Jan 2018 2:01]
You are answering your own question mate; "Is Siggy worth £45m and would Swansea be higher up the table if he was here?"
...when the question that was asked was; "Who is the better player, Siggy or Ayew?"
You are doing this because the question was provoked by your posts explaining your views re: Siggy's perceived limitations (You then made out that Ayew's stats compared favourably to Siggy's to support your argument that Siggy had been adequately replaced by Ayew)...and so the question posed on this thread and the inevitable response to it makes you feel uncomfortable BECAUSE DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW THAT SIGGY IS A BETTER PLAYER THAN AYEW!
Q. Why can't you say those words in response to the question? Q. Why do you feel the need to answer your own questions instead? A. Because to do so would be to admit that YOU ARE WRONG
Admit that to yourself at least.
Tottenham Hotspur and Everton are not knocking on the door of Ayew's agent with the big brown envelopes stuffed with money and the Rolls purring on the drive are they?
The market confirms what we can all see with our own eyes that Siggy is top class and Ayew is a good, useful, boy who tries his best.
Your argument that we ignore Siggy's set piece contribution is absurd. You end up taking the set pieces for a team because you are the best at them. Ayew is not, has never been, a good set piece taker (nevermind the best) wherever he has played....this is because he is not as good a player as Gylfi Sigurdsson.
The opening poster's question has been answered. You do not know better than all of those Swans fans, pundits, scouts and managers (at Spurs and Everton) . Get over yourself.
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 10:43 - Jan 9 by Kerouac
You are answering your own question mate; "Is Siggy worth £45m and would Swansea be higher up the table if he was here?"
...when the question that was asked was; "Who is the better player, Siggy or Ayew?"
You are doing this because the question was provoked by your posts explaining your views re: Siggy's perceived limitations (You then made out that Ayew's stats compared favourably to Siggy's to support your argument that Siggy had been adequately replaced by Ayew)...and so the question posed on this thread and the inevitable response to it makes you feel uncomfortable BECAUSE DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW THAT SIGGY IS A BETTER PLAYER THAN AYEW!
Q. Why can't you say those words in response to the question? Q. Why do you feel the need to answer your own questions instead? A. Because to do so would be to admit that YOU ARE WRONG
Admit that to yourself at least.
Tottenham Hotspur and Everton are not knocking on the door of Ayew's agent with the big brown envelopes stuffed with money and the Rolls purring on the drive are they?
The market confirms what we can all see with our own eyes that Siggy is top class and Ayew is a good, useful, boy who tries his best.
Your argument that we ignore Siggy's set piece contribution is absurd. You end up taking the set pieces for a team because you are the best at them. Ayew is not, has never been, a good set piece taker (nevermind the best) wherever he has played....this is because he is not as good a player as Gylfi Sigurdsson.
The opening poster's question has been answered. You do not know better than all of those Swans fans, pundits, scouts and managers (at Spurs and Everton) . Get over yourself.
My last post on the subject.
I answered that question already regarding who the best player is. I have not really thought about it, seems a pointles question and one that cant really have a clear answer. I got involved in this as my name was mentioned as a sourcof knowledge for the answer, under the incorrect assumption I had already discussed it - I made it clear what I discussed was the fact that Gylfi has contributed just as much to Everton this season as Ayew has to Swansea. I was still asked questions regarding that stance - hence my posts
Why would it make me feel uncomfortable if I "knew deep down" that Siggy was a better player? What difference would it make to me in any way? I will happily say he is the better set piece taker, hes a better set piece taker than Paul Pogba too and probably Cristiano Ronaldo at this moment in time - is he a better player than them though? You answer.
I am going to assume your answer to the above is "No".
So if we are to understand that being better at set pieces does not make you a btter footballer, just a better set piece player... Then it would make every bit of sense to eliminate set pice statistics ij order to compare open play statistics. Which is what we have done.
Ian Harte (left back) used to take free kicks, corners and penalties for Leeds - as a result his goal scoring and assists were abnormally high for a defender. At one point I think he had a higher goal tally than Mark Viduka - did that make him the better player? Or just the better set piece taker?
You seem to be agreeing with me but not wanting to actually type it.
As for Nivvy and his youtubing, thats just something to look at and chuckle.
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 11:40 - Jan 9 by jack247
Only on PlanetSwans would you get a 4 page debate on whether Jordan Ayew is a better player than Gylfi Sigurdsson.
We had to sell him, we haven’t replaced him. Surely no one can argue either of those points.
Correct.
Although I would point out that the title of the thread is misleading. I dont think the debate has ever has been about who is better. More of a debate that Gylfi is not worth £45m - we had to sell him for a variety of reasons (including £45m was a ridiculous amount for him and the fact he refused to play for us of course). Also the observation that the Gylfi pining is such nonsense considering he is doing little more for Everton than Andre Ayew is doing for us.
There literally is nothing to debate, its obvious. But those who love the player that was desperate to get away from them cannot accept it.
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 11:40 - Jan 9 by jack247
Only on PlanetSwans would you get a 4 page debate on whether Jordan Ayew is a better player than Gylfi Sigurdsson.
We had to sell him, we haven’t replaced him. Surely no one can argue either of those points.
No "debate" whatsoever, 247.
One obsessed troll's latest ridiculous fixation, in order to stick up for his only friend little res and his own personal yearlong obsession.
Gylfi Sigurdsson is a better player than Jordan Ayew. By far. Open play, set pieces, doesn't matter. The facts are there for all to see. Any actual Swans fan knows this, it's only the trolls who argue their "points" refuting it.
As for having to sell him, that is debatable. As I said towards the end of last season, had we made a "splash" early in the summer with a couple quality signings Siggy could've been convinced to stay. We didn't, he decided to leave and for good reason.
But you are right, we didn't replace him (or Llorente) properly. We got stuck with the sshitt sandwich that is Bony/Sanches/Clucas. I was one of the few who called each of those moves exactly spot on at the time. They have failed miserably to prove me wrong and we're staring at relegation as a result.
A few prominent trolls on here were on the opposite end of the "spectrum", if you will. They have now conveniently forgotten their absurd and heavy-handed cheerleading, and moved on to Siggy again.
C'est la vie.
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Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 06:03 - Jan 10 with 1236 views
Who is the better player? (Ok, better is better) on 05:55 - Jan 10 by Nirvana
No "debate" whatsoever, 247.
One obsessed troll's latest ridiculous fixation, in order to stick up for his only friend little res and his own personal yearlong obsession.
Gylfi Sigurdsson is a better player than Jordan Ayew. By far. Open play, set pieces, doesn't matter. The facts are there for all to see. Any actual Swans fan knows this, it's only the trolls who argue their "points" refuting it.
As for having to sell him, that is debatable. As I said towards the end of last season, had we made a "splash" early in the summer with a couple quality signings Siggy could've been convinced to stay. We didn't, he decided to leave and for good reason.
But you are right, we didn't replace him (or Llorente) properly. We got stuck with the sshitt sandwich that is Bony/Sanches/Clucas. I was one of the few who called each of those moves exactly spot on at the time. They have failed miserably to prove me wrong and we're staring at relegation as a result.
A few prominent trolls on here were on the opposite end of the "spectrum", if you will. They have now conveniently forgotten their absurd and heavy-handed cheerleading, and moved on to Siggy again.
C'est la vie.
Screaming ''troll'' whenever you are losing a debate really won't help you Nivvy.
You say Gylfi is better BY FAR than Ayew from Open play and say the facts are there for all to see.
Can you tell us where they are please? We can then judge for ourselves. The fact posted on here certainly point to your view being incorrect.
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