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I created yet another a new thread on Welsh Independence because I wanted to come at the argument with a different slant.
We have been continually told in the UK media that Wales is being subsidised by the English taxpayer to the tune of £13 billion a year. That figure comes from the difference between the two numbers they publish - what they claim to be Welsh Revenue and Welsh Expenditure.
If you believe what they say then I imagine you would find those figures embarrassing and you’d be desperate for the situation to be different.
So, if someone said that those figures are wrong and that I can prove that they’re wrong any Welsh person who is proud to be Welsh would want to see those figures to see if that person is correct. And they would WANT that person to be correct. Simple pride in your country would ensure that.
Recently Plaid Cymru appointed Professor John Doyle to investigate precisely what the financial situation would be in an Independent Wales. He used information from the Office of National Statistics to make his calculations and came up with a deficit of just £2.6 billion.
He came up with an extensive report explaining the details. But to save us buying a copy of the report and ploughing through page after page of stuff a bloke named David H Smith has created a youtube video in which he explains the details and even puts the numbers up on a white board to make it easy to follow. The video is titled ‘What is Cymru’s Deficit — Welsh Independence’.
If you were to look at the video there are a few things that could happen. You might argue that some of the numbers are wrong. You might argue that the logic is wrong. And you could make your case. On the other hand you might see that the numbers and logic are right. In which case you’d come to believe that Wales really can afford Independence.
But some posters on this site just dismissed the report out of hand. The Reason ? Because it was commissioned by Plaid Cymru. That’s it. No discussion. No argument. No logic. It actually makes complete sense that Plaid commissioned it. Because the Labour and Conservative parties would never have done so because they are pure unionist parties.
So why would those posters not want to look at the figures ? The only logical explanation I can come up with is that they don’t want to accept that the argument might make sense. That they actually want to believe that what they think is correct, that Wales is an economic basket case.
So there you have it. Rather than look at the extremely detailed information from an extensive report they prefer to believe just two numbers printed in the UK press. Just two numbers to explain the financial health of the £80 billion Welsh economy.
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Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 12:36 - Dec 20 with 1689 views
Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 12:36 - Dec 20 by onehunglow
It might be seen as tedious John Wales will never be Independent as the people do not want it
There ya go
What would you know about what Welsh people want ? You hate Wales and everything about it. Hate your home town. Think you long ago forfeited the right to comment on Wales
"Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination" - Mark Twain
The report is hardly independent being commissioned by PC a party in favour of Welsh Independence.
Wonder if it mentions that Wales has the highest % of public sector jobs in the UK. THE DVLA, Inland revenue, passport office, land registry etc would relocate to other parts of the UK resulting 100,000 well paid jobs being loss with billions in wages being lost to the local economy plus falling tax revenues.
Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 14:04 - Dec 20 by felixstowe_jack
The report is hardly independent being commissioned by PC a party in favour of Welsh Independence.
Wonder if it mentions that Wales has the highest % of public sector jobs in the UK. THE DVLA, Inland revenue, passport office, land registry etc would relocate to other parts of the UK resulting 100,000 well paid jobs being loss with billions in wages being lost to the local economy plus falling tax revenues.
I expected no better from you felix.
The four depts that you mention would be around 12,000. Please explain about the other 88,000 jobs. And please give details.
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Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 14:47 - Dec 20 with 1599 views
Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 14:41 - Dec 20 by johnlangy
I expected no better from you felix.
The four depts that you mention would be around 12,000. Please explain about the other 88,000 jobs. And please give details.
Is it possible 1. To debate independence 2. To justify it economically beyond doubt
You can take great credit from em in that you post pertaining to the topic and refrain from indulging in the pitiful and totally irrevant personal attacks when independence is mentioned.
It is a topic and apersonal or at least it should be.
Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 14:50 - Dec 20 by onehunglow
Is it possible 1. To debate independence 2. To justify it economically beyond doubt
You can take great credit from em in that you post pertaining to the topic and refrain from indulging in the pitiful and totally irrevant personal attacks when independence is mentioned.
It is a topic and apersonal or at least it should be.
I thought I was debating the idea ohl. Was my original post not simply making my point ?
And the video does explain it economically. Whether it makes the argument beyond doubt is the question. The whole thrust of my post was that I wanted others to look at the numbers and debate whether they make sense or not. And if they believe not then to explain where the numbers are wrong and what they believe the correct numbers are.
And provide details.
Felix has made a similar point many times about the enormous numbers of jobs that will disappear. But there's never detail as to where these jobs are. Which is why I said I expected nothing better. He posts the same thing time and time again.
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Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 15:37 - Dec 20 with 1577 views
Do you think that horrendous case is just unique to Wales, or are there similar cases throughout the UK recently and that the Daily Mail will not report on them?
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Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 15:52 - Dec 20 with 1573 views
Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 14:57 - Dec 20 by lifelong
You’re wasting your time John.
Wales is a country full of poisonous, xenophobic and backward people mun.
Not really true , just sceptical of what some would call dreamers aspirations , I'm not against the concept of independence but seeing how devolved powers to Wales so far have been an unmitigated disaster for the majority then , I'll bide my time before I join the ranks of AUOB shouting from the roof tops
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
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Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 15:54 - Dec 20 with 1573 views
Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 15:37 - Dec 20 by lifelong
Do you think that horrendous case is just unique to Wales, or are there similar cases throughout the UK recently and that the Daily Mail will not report on them?
In the meantime another Welsh medium school will be opening in Powys after Easter.
Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 16:50 - Dec 20 with 1541 views
Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 14:57 - Dec 20 by lifelong
You’re wasting your time John.
Wales is a country full of poisonous, xenophobic and backward people mun.
I liked the term ….. ‘Another colonially induced inferiorized Welshman’.
Luckily the younger generation can see that nothing can last as long as the uk union without changing, and still be fit for purpose in the modern world. Nothing.
So the choice for the union is ……. radical change, or it ends.
Johnsons English nationalist Tory party lied their way to Brexit. And Brexit will end the union. Simples. Its just a matter of time.
Beware of the Risen People
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Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 16:50 - Dec 20 with 1542 views
The thick, ruinous, separatist and isolationist Yokels have no concern whatsoever that Wales is an impoverished and economically partitioned country with Welsh public services that lag way behind the rest of the U.K!
No problem or concern to them, because they are more than happy for the sabotage and managed decline to continue! Absolute joke!
Quote: "I am hugely disappointed by this stance; the M4 infrastructure is not only on its last legs, but if no discussions will be had around it at all, what solutions do you intend to have up your sleeve when the inevitable day comes when that part of the M4 needs to shut for major repairs?".
Argus!
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Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 16:50 - Dec 20 with 1540 views
Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 15:37 - Dec 20 by lifelong
Do you think that horrendous case is just unique to Wales, or are there similar cases throughout the UK recently and that the Daily Mail will not report on them?
Nope, just that Wales has led the way in this field of neglect and disastrous NHS performance for decades now
I refer you to Pencoedjacks reply for any further consideration of this and other matters.
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Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 16:58 - Dec 20 with 1534 views
Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 16:50 - Dec 20 by Wingstandwood
The thick, ruinous, separatist and isolationist Yokels have no concern whatsoever that Wales is an impoverished and economically partitioned country with Welsh public services that lag way behind the rest of the U.K!
No problem or concern to them, because they are more than happy for the sabotage and managed decline to continue! Absolute joke!
Quote: "I am hugely disappointed by this stance; the M4 infrastructure is not only on its last legs, but if no discussions will be had around it at all, what solutions do you intend to have up your sleeve when the inevitable day comes when that part of the M4 needs to shut for major repairs?".
The UK government impoverished Wales. They did not care a damn.
If you believe that Mogg, Johnson and Farage care about Wales, then i am not sure you will ever understand.
As someone once said …. ‘You are called upon in defiance of shame, of honour, of truth, to deny the sufferings under which you groan, and to flatter the persecution which tramples you under foot’.
Never vote Tory.
Beware of the Risen People
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Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 17:24 - Dec 20 with 1515 views
Yes, another Welsh Independence thread on 16:58 - Dec 20 by Kilkennyjack
The UK government impoverished Wales. They did not care a damn.
If you believe that Mogg, Johnson and Farage care about Wales, then i am not sure you will ever understand.
As someone once said …. ‘You are called upon in defiance of shame, of honour, of truth, to deny the sufferings under which you groan, and to flatter the persecution which tramples you under foot’.
Never vote Tory.
QUARTER OF A CENTURY of devolution without Tory governance says it all for me. Here is another bit of something extra that the Tories are not at fault for!
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