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Scotland appears likely to pass controversial gender reforms which would make it easier for transgender people to change their recorded gender.
The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill will remove the need for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria in order to receive a gender recognition certificate (GRC).
It would also lower the minimum age for applicants to 16 and reduce the time required for an applicant to live in their acquired gender from two years to three months (or six for people aged 16 and 17) - though there will be a three-month reflection period.
MSPs will consider the last of the 153 amendments lodged at stage three of the bill after a marathon session of parliament yesterday, before a final vote this afternoon.
How long before Drakeford and the Senedd folow suit ?
Scotland gender recognition law. on 13:13 - Dec 22 by Gwyn737
I’d describe myself as a bit of a leftie but I’m against a lot of the gender reassignment gubbins.
However, what an awful piece of television. Linking transgender people to sex offenders is disgusting.
There was a couple of really good threads on here about our free press and confirmation bias (which ironically someone called brainwashing when it’s the polar opposite), an then we have GB news or Geebeebies.
I don’t like the Mail or the Express but I’ve no issue at all with them existing- in fact they have done some really good things.
Geebeebies can get in the sea. Poison.
I didn't consider myself to be any sort of a leftie until I started reading threads like this, but that is a disgusting piece of television.
Lumping Trans people in with sex offenders, drag artists and paedophiles is a swing to the dark ages and people who confuse gay people with being paedophiles and wanting to have sex with everyone they see on sight. Gender Dysphoria is a health condition, I don't know if it is a physical or mental condition but it is clearly a condidtion. People deserve to be treated and recognised for it.
All parts of your body can go wrong during development why can't your assigned gender?
I'm not a fan of the proposals of this legislation, it allows people to go too far too fast and the lack of a medical diagnosis is particularly worrying. I would not support it in Wales.
A colleague of mine has a transgender son, trust me on this, it has been a massive struggle for the entire family, and has been since their son (who was born their daughter) was 3 years of age. They've been to hell and back and know that they've almost certainly got a lifetime more of it to come - mainly becasue of attitudes displayed in this thread and on Gbeebies.
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Scotland gender recognition law. on 19:39 - Dec 22 with 1286 views
Scotland gender recognition law. on 16:05 - Dec 22 by Scotia
I didn't consider myself to be any sort of a leftie until I started reading threads like this, but that is a disgusting piece of television.
Lumping Trans people in with sex offenders, drag artists and paedophiles is a swing to the dark ages and people who confuse gay people with being paedophiles and wanting to have sex with everyone they see on sight. Gender Dysphoria is a health condition, I don't know if it is a physical or mental condition but it is clearly a condidtion. People deserve to be treated and recognised for it.
All parts of your body can go wrong during development why can't your assigned gender?
I'm not a fan of the proposals of this legislation, it allows people to go too far too fast and the lack of a medical diagnosis is particularly worrying. I would not support it in Wales.
A colleague of mine has a transgender son, trust me on this, it has been a massive struggle for the entire family, and has been since their son (who was born their daughter) was 3 years of age. They've been to hell and back and know that they've almost certainly got a lifetime more of it to come - mainly becasue of attitudes displayed in this thread and on Gbeebies.
If Gender dysphoria is a medical condition as you correctly point out then where is the logic behind this law that says you can get reassignment without medical diagnosis?
Are we just going down the road of abandoning the expert opinions of medical professionals and moving to a model of self diagnosis and self treatment?
Having basic respect for women's rights shouldn't be a "left/right" issue.
The simple fact is that biological women have essentially just been told by the Scottish Government that they don't exist. Hundreds of years of hard fought for rights have gone out of the window, and anyone who objects is labelled a "Transphobe" or a "TERF".
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Scotland gender recognition law. on 20:23 - Dec 22 with 1231 views
Scotland gender recognition law. on 20:20 - Dec 22 by Dr_Winston
Having basic respect for women's rights shouldn't be a "left/right" issue.
The simple fact is that biological women have essentially just been told by the Scottish Government that they don't exist. Hundreds of years of hard fought for rights have gone out of the window, and anyone who objects is labelled a "Transphobe" or a "TERF".
Scotland gender recognition law. on 20:23 - Dec 22 by Flashberryjack
Top post.
If a man or woman commits a custodial offence and pre sentencing or before ,decides they're now the opposite sex , does that mean they go to that gender jail
"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."
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Scotland gender recognition law. on 21:32 - Dec 22 with 1166 views
Scotland gender recognition law. on 20:20 - Dec 22 by Dr_Winston
Having basic respect for women's rights shouldn't be a "left/right" issue.
The simple fact is that biological women have essentially just been told by the Scottish Government that they don't exist. Hundreds of years of hard fought for rights have gone out of the window, and anyone who objects is labelled a "Transphobe" or a "TERF".
I’d agree and say those are the correct arguments to make IMO.
Others saying it’s all about sex offenders etc. are just wrong.
[Post edited 22 Dec 2022 21:32]
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Scotland gender recognition law. on 21:40 - Dec 22 with 1165 views
Full disclosure here. The whole "trans" thing weirds me out massively.
Having said that, I do have sympathy for genuine trans people. It takes tremendous courage to basically buck society and insist that they're something other than society says that they are, not to mention the potential alienation of friends and family in the process. However, that does not alter the basic fact that if you've got a cock you're not a woman, and can't reasonably expect to be able to access womens spaces.
The problem as I see it is that trans Women insisting that they are actual women when in reality they should be treated as trans women as a separate category.
It is also interesting that we're not having this debate about trans men, who seem far rarer which would suggest that this is more of a psychological issue than a biological one.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Scotland gender recognition law. on 21:50 - Dec 22 with 1143 views
Scotland gender recognition law. on 20:20 - Dec 22 by Dr_Winston
Having basic respect for women's rights shouldn't be a "left/right" issue.
The simple fact is that biological women have essentially just been told by the Scottish Government that they don't exist. Hundreds of years of hard fought for rights have gone out of the window, and anyone who objects is labelled a "Transphobe" or a "TERF".
Put over my thoughts exactly, and far more eloquent than I could.
Let's hope the UK government stands up to be counted
You give it out, you take it back it`s all part of the game
Scotland gender recognition law. on 20:20 - Dec 22 by Dr_Winston
Having basic respect for women's rights shouldn't be a "left/right" issue.
The simple fact is that biological women have essentially just been told by the Scottish Government that they don't exist. Hundreds of years of hard fought for rights have gone out of the window, and anyone who objects is labelled a "Transphobe" or a "TERF".
I'm an a man, my wife who is a woman genetically and biologically is very frustrated with the way that she is dismissed if she tries to ask simple questions in these matters. We have a real problem of aggressive false moralisation by a small minority.
Scotland gender recognition law. on 21:53 - Dec 22 by Flashberryjack
The UK government might stand up and be counted, but Drakeford will do exactly what Sturgeon tells him to do.
Drakeford is a bit of a panty sniffer when it comes to Comrade Sturgeon. Where one leads, the other inevitably follows.
[Post edited 22 Dec 2022 21:56]
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Scotland gender recognition law. on 22:17 - Dec 22 with 1098 views
Scotland gender recognition law. on 21:40 - Dec 22 by Dr_Winston
Full disclosure here. The whole "trans" thing weirds me out massively.
Having said that, I do have sympathy for genuine trans people. It takes tremendous courage to basically buck society and insist that they're something other than society says that they are, not to mention the potential alienation of friends and family in the process. However, that does not alter the basic fact that if you've got a cock you're not a woman, and can't reasonably expect to be able to access womens spaces.
The problem as I see it is that trans Women insisting that they are actual women when in reality they should be treated as trans women as a separate category.
It is also interesting that we're not having this debate about trans men, who seem far rarer which would suggest that this is more of a psychological issue than a biological one.
Take a look at this pal - Whatever happened to 'Elf and safety ?? Canada admittedly but....
It's getting like some surreal dark-comedy sketch belonging more to Channel 4 Brass Eye!
The lunacy is everywhere and applicable to so many different things! The normalisation and support for downright creepy behaviour or insane behaviour/rules/standards is a moral thing to do according to WOKE loons.
Ignoring medical science, taking pre-pubescents to gay pride drag queen events at gay nightclubs, putting tampons in male toilets, claiming that there are over a hundred genders, thinking that its o.k for a guy with a dick to enter private female space(s), messing up kids minds etc, etc is evidence of the appalling times that we now live in.
0:28s onwards QUOTE: "First off, why the double standard? In any other setting, if an adult exposed their crotch to a child they'd be in jail". The guy who said that would now be accused of living in the dark ages!
Argus!
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Scotland gender recognition law. on 23:30 - Dec 22 with 1033 views
Scotland gender recognition law. on 21:40 - Dec 22 by Dr_Winston
Full disclosure here. The whole "trans" thing weirds me out massively.
Having said that, I do have sympathy for genuine trans people. It takes tremendous courage to basically buck society and insist that they're something other than society says that they are, not to mention the potential alienation of friends and family in the process. However, that does not alter the basic fact that if you've got a cock you're not a woman, and can't reasonably expect to be able to access womens spaces.
The problem as I see it is that trans Women insisting that they are actual women when in reality they should be treated as trans women as a separate category.
It is also interesting that we're not having this debate about trans men, who seem far rarer which would suggest that this is more of a psychological issue than a biological one.
It used to weird me out too. I know 3 trans people. 2 are trans male (born female). It's also a lot easier for a woman to appear as a man than a man a woman.
That's largely why the media jump on the trans women bandwagon. They think they're all like Emily Howard from little Britain. Or apparently sexual deviant drag Queens.
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Scotland gender recognition law. on 23:32 - Dec 22 with 1031 views
If Gender dysphoria is a medical condition as you correctly point out then where is the logic behind this law that says you can get reassignment without medical diagnosis?
Are we just going down the road of abandoning the expert opinions of medical professionals and moving to a model of self diagnosis and self treatment?
There is no logic to that. Its stupid.
I don't see what's wrong with the existing legislation.
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Scotland gender recognition law. on 00:49 - Dec 23 with 989 views
I feel terrible for those with gender dysphoria, must be awful to deal with. But that doesn’t mean we should change the world to play into that alternate reality.
In Canada it started just like that - you can now get fined for “misgendering” someone. Calling someone “he” or “sir” when he has a full grown beard is now an offence. The word “mother” is now being changed in schools to “birthing people” and breast feeding is now “chest feeding”.
It diminishes women, plays into a false reality and endangers an awful lot of people.
Live and let live, sure, be who you want to be - but let’s not endanger anyone else in the process or change reality to suit.
If you are a bloke who wants to wear a dress, go for it. But don’t then think everyone else has to play into that narrative.
If that’s the case then I’m wouldn’t mind identifying as a Royal family member in Monaco and being entitled to their money as a result. If we can all just change reality to whatever we want and the world must play into that, then why not?
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
The big question now is whether the UK Government will make an order under s35 of the Scotland Act:
35 Power to intervene in certain cases. (1)If a Bill contains provisions– (a)which the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds to believe would be incompatible with any international obligations or the interests of defence or national security, or (b)which make modifications of the law as it applies to reserved matters and which the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds to believe would have an adverse effect on the operation of the law as it applies to reserved matters,he may make an order prohibiting the Presiding Officer from submitting the Bill for Royal Assent. (2)The order must identify the Bill and the provisions in question and state the reasons for making the order. (3)The order may be made at any time during– (a)the period of four weeks beginning with the passing of the Bill, (b)any period of four weeks beginning with any F1... approval of the Bill in accordance with standing orders made by virtue of section 36(5), (c)if a reference is made in relation to the Bill under section [F232A(2)(b) or] 33, the period of four weeks beginning with the reference being decided or otherwise disposed of by the [F3Supreme Court]. (4)The Secretary of State shall not make an order in relation to a Bill if he has notified the Presiding Officer that he does not intend to do so, unless the Bill has been approved as mentioned in subsection (3)(b) since the notification. (5)An order in force under this section at a time when such approval is given shall cease to have effect.
Am I alone in thinking that some MSPs may have latched on to this as a means of triggering a major constitutional crisis and creating a perception that the evil English are frustrating the democratic will of the Scottish people?
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Scotland gender recognition law. on 06:50 - Dec 23 with 926 views
Scotland gender recognition law. on 13:13 - Dec 22 by Gwyn737
I’d describe myself as a bit of a leftie but I’m against a lot of the gender reassignment gubbins.
However, what an awful piece of television. Linking transgender people to sex offenders is disgusting.
There was a couple of really good threads on here about our free press and confirmation bias (which ironically someone called brainwashing when it’s the polar opposite), an then we have GB news or Geebeebies.
I don’t like the Mail or the Express but I’ve no issue at all with them existing- in fact they have done some really good things.
Geebeebies can get in the sea. Poison.
Didn’t see whatever television piece it was, however the link is obvious.
Not the people themselves but the environments those people create can be taken advantage by those types that you describe, by efforts to appease them.
For example, let’s say as a result of this, men who claim to identify as women are allowed in female changing rooms. What do you think a pedophile who likes little girls is going to pretend to identify as in order to be legally in the same area without challenge?
So the trans people themselves shouldn’t be seen as the danger by default, however the legislation they push for is incredibly dangerous.
That’s just one way, I can think of dozens more.
You can ask the female MMA fighter Tamikka Brents for another example who has a broken skull and orbital bone after getting hammered by Fallon Fox, a male to female transgender allowed to compete in combat with genuine females.
This bill is an absolute legal minefield. This is from the gov.scot website:
“Making a false application is now a criminal offence and will carry a maximum penalty of imprisonment for up to two years or an unlimited fine or both.”
So if someone makes an application to change gender and it is deemed false they are lobbed in nick. But who checks if the application is false and on what grounds? Without the need for a medical diagnosis how can it be shown their application is false? Will anyone rejecting a false application also be gaoled for being a massive hateful transphobe?
This bill is an absolute legal minefield. This is from the gov.scot website:
“Making a false application is now a criminal offence and will carry a maximum penalty of imprisonment for up to two years or an unlimited fine or both.”
So if someone makes an application to change gender and it is deemed false they are lobbed in nick. But who checks if the application is false and on what grounds? Without the need for a medical diagnosis how can it be shown their application is false? Will anyone rejecting a false application also be gaoled for being a massive hateful transphobe?
They really haven’t thought this through at all.
It’ll all come crashing down at some point.
As has been said, live and let live, but I’m not playing along with someone else’s narrative.
There are ‘real’ trans people, whom I would wager are a very small percentage of the current trans population. These people are supported without huge changes to law such as this.
I know ‘mental illness’ is a loaded term and I’ve hesitated to use it in this thread, but I think the vast majority of trans people should be supported with sessions with a psychologist more than anything.
There are an increasing amount of ‘de-transitioners’ who at a young age went through all the hormone treatment etc., and realised when they became a young adult (17,18 upwards) that they rushed into it and were even encouraged by doctors that they had gender disphoria. They then go through the rest of their life with that regret hanging over them.
My wife and I work in education and the spike of trans people in the last year or so is significant. Of course, we are ‘encouraged’ to play along otherwise we will likely lose our jobs. There have been plenty of issues with ‘trans girls’ (I.e. boys/men) using female spaces and it causing discomfort.
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