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So it seems like Rice is gonna get a 3 game European ban after this (which really should be more), certainly makes you wonder how many more incidents occur like this and how often.
Not very professional to say the least, but he should have been given a red card for abuse which I think they can still do in the tunnel? But EUFA have acted, and I did hear that the ref was pretty cr@p!
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Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 08:46 - May 11 with 1342 views
I can understand his frustration and put it down to his disappointment at losing a crucial game to not just one but a number of decisions that could be described as "inconsistent".
As a pro he should have known better but I have sympathy.
Once played in a game where the ref was so obviously biased that our captain decided we would stay in the changing room at half time whilst he had a quiet word. Long story short, the game was abandoned, we and the club were all fined, the match was replayed (we lost) and we never saw that ref again. In our view a tacit nod from the authorities that we were right but we could not be seen as being right.
And that's a real problem - nobody can criticise the officiating or the management of the game - at any level - without fines or penalties. Without an open debate how can these frustrations be vented?
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Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 09:02 - May 11 with 1329 views
Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 08:46 - May 11 by saint901
I can understand his frustration and put it down to his disappointment at losing a crucial game to not just one but a number of decisions that could be described as "inconsistent".
As a pro he should have known better but I have sympathy.
Once played in a game where the ref was so obviously biased that our captain decided we would stay in the changing room at half time whilst he had a quiet word. Long story short, the game was abandoned, we and the club were all fined, the match was replayed (we lost) and we never saw that ref again. In our view a tacit nod from the authorities that we were right but we could not be seen as being right.
And that's a real problem - nobody can criticise the officiating or the management of the game - at any level - without fines or penalties. Without an open debate how can these frustrations be vented?
In all the games that I have played I have only once thought the ref cheated, they should not be abused by players no matter what level they are at
Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime
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Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 09:46 - May 11 with 1286 views
Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 08:41 - May 11 by kingslandstand1
Not very professional to say the least, but he should have been given a red card for abuse which I think they can still do in the tunnel? But EUFA have acted, and I did hear that the ref was pretty cr@p!
They can get sent off in the tunnel, yeah, but like in the prem, it’s pretty clear that the refs are told to just get on with it and basically ignore the dissent, as I’m 100% sure that these incidents happen quite often but unless they’re filmed like this one, the ref just ignored it (as that’s what they’re informed to do) and no one finds about them. And with the ref himself, well I didn’t see the game but did see the highlights, and the two reds he gave were blatant ones, so unless they were moaning about the average fouls he gave for/against them throughout the game then I really don’t get how many see him as poor/crap.
Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 09:46 - May 11 by Ron11
Even Mike Dean?
There are plenty of incompetent refs that is for sure, but even Mike Dean doesn't cheat, he is just poor, very poor.
But the debate here is about abusing referees, yes players should be allowed to question, but they should not be allowed to abuse, I agree with Elijah the issue is they seem to be told to ignore it rather than deal with it, if they started to be stricter and consistent in being so, then the problem would go away completely.
Likewise diving, with VAR we should be able to deal with players on the spot and book them for diving, we should also impose retrospective viewing of incidents where a player has looked to secure an advantage by cheating ie diving and impose bans, again that would stop the diving overnight.
In the main though how can you expect players to be respectful when they have managers like Moyes who shows even more petulance
Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime
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Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 10:54 - May 11 with 1214 views
Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 08:46 - May 11 by saint901
I can understand his frustration and put it down to his disappointment at losing a crucial game to not just one but a number of decisions that could be described as "inconsistent".
As a pro he should have known better but I have sympathy.
Once played in a game where the ref was so obviously biased that our captain decided we would stay in the changing room at half time whilst he had a quiet word. Long story short, the game was abandoned, we and the club were all fined, the match was replayed (we lost) and we never saw that ref again. In our view a tacit nod from the authorities that we were right but we could not be seen as being right.
And that's a real problem - nobody can criticise the officiating or the management of the game - at any level - without fines or penalties. Without an open debate how can these frustrations be vented?
Well I only saw the main game highlights so didn’t see most of the fouls he gave/didn’t give, but from the main highlights he got all his major decisions correct. But if like your saying he was inconsistent then fair enough.
And for your game, it’s a lot easier to get away with being biased and such at lower levels than it is at top levels, and even the times where the refs actually know a player or two who they’re mates with (as I myself have had it a few times, although I’m certainly not seen as biased for them seeing how I sent him off multiple times! 😂) as there’s also many tests and such that higher up refs take to make sure that they won’t get bribed and such.
But with your point around the Cristian of refs and such, I both agree and disagree with it, as players wouldn’t get fined/cautioned/sent off if they spoke to refs with a bit of respect, like players do in other sports, which is why it ends up with fines for them soo often. As in my games I do, I don’t allow swearing towards myself or my other match officials in a disrespectful way to go unpunished, as it then helps me to control the game/lower dissent levels. So if players didn’t do that (especially not after the game) or blame the ref for any little thing, then these things wouldn’t happen. As many do get fined for what they say on interviews/social media and such, which I’m in the middle for as it’s all down to what they say for whether I think the fines fair or not, as if a ref did actually mess up and they’ve criticised them in a not too OTT way, they I think that’s ok, but if they have taken the criticism too far/what the ref did was correct then yeah they do deserve them. As many pundits and commentators criticise officials all the time and get away with it, and they’re probably the biggest ones seeing how everyone’s watching them when they’re not at the games themselves.
But at the same time, I do think that refs should maybe be on shows more so that they can explain decisions and such, so that more understand, or to talk back/discuss with those that wanna criticise the refs, as then we wouldn’t need fines as if their point was valid then they’d win the discussion whilst if it wasn’t then they’d loose it and no one would really listen. But it really doesn’t help when you’ve got clowns suggesting the players should officiate games and other stupid suggestions. But the fines are there because at the end of the day, no one is more qualified/experienced/better than the top refs as yeah they may have their off days, but they’re still way better than everyone else, as you wouldn’t criticise a doctor for doing his job correctly yet many do critique refs for doing theirs correctly.
As at the end of the day, a referee can make a game harder to win, but they will never truly make a team loose.
Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 09:51 - May 11 by JaySaint
There have been plenty of examples in recent years (in the premier league) where Referee's have at best been sway'd by the occasion/crowd/big team
Deliberately cheating? I can't see it in England, more like incompetence
I definitely agree that refs get “swayed” by big crowds, but that can be by coincidence or not. As many refs use tactics/techniques to keep control of games/give the correct decisions which use the crowd in a way. As many use crowds reactions to help them, as you can use it to see when you’ve gotten a decision wrong, as for the non-close ones (aka the ones that most can clearly see) when the crowds go ballistic it’s usually a suggestion that the decision given was incorrect, so sometimes refs may use a crowds (as well as players reactions) to see who should get what, who’s throw in it is etc. They can also be used to help control a game by the atmosphere they generate. As when a crowd is going ballistic as the ref, then that feeling will pass onto the players leading to reckless/dangerous challenges which makes the game harder for the officials to control, whilst if they give a soft foul or two for that team, to calm down the crowd which will then help to lower the tension with the players. But seeing how the home teams have the bigger crowds, that’s why they’re usually the team with more of the decisions going there way, and was another influence to that season behind closed doors and the fact that it was the first and only time the away teams had done better than the home ones throughout the season.
And for big teams, well yeah I agree that many refs in the past do give quite a bit more in favour of the bigger than the smaller teams. Whether that’s due to the refs wanting the big games, so wanting to keep the bigger teams happy, rather than the smaller ones (as Man City vs Liverpool could quite easily be a title deciding game, whilst Watford vs Leicester won’t be, so when getting city vs Watford a ref would certainly probably prefer city to be happy rather than Watford so that they still get the city games). And you could also maybe suggest that it lowers the amount of abuse/people highlighting any big decisions that go against them, as there’s certainly be more onto the referees back if a last minute pen was given for Leeds against Man U, than it would vice versa.
Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 10:41 - May 11 by SaintNick
There are plenty of incompetent refs that is for sure, but even Mike Dean doesn't cheat, he is just poor, very poor.
But the debate here is about abusing referees, yes players should be allowed to question, but they should not be allowed to abuse, I agree with Elijah the issue is they seem to be told to ignore it rather than deal with it, if they started to be stricter and consistent in being so, then the problem would go away completely.
Likewise diving, with VAR we should be able to deal with players on the spot and book them for diving, we should also impose retrospective viewing of incidents where a player has looked to secure an advantage by cheating ie diving and impose bans, again that would stop the diving overnight.
In the main though how can you expect players to be respectful when they have managers like Moyes who shows even more petulance
Yeah Nick I think you’ve got everything spot on here, as players can be respectful to reds, it’s just the way that FA/FIFA do it allow them to get away with it. As it happens at many different levels, as at the top they’re told to just get on with it, even though they shouldn’t (as for example, that Leeds player should’ve received a second yellow for dissent when the ref went to VAR to check on the red for the excessive force challenge that their defender did on the Arsenal lad, as the player got booked straight away for dissent (so clearly said something to him) and should’ve been booked again for it, but didn’t, hence why he and many others continue to do it as they think they can get away with it). As even at my levels with the Wessex league/academies, it’s similar. As at the academies the players are usually well behaved (as of course they don’t wanna get sent off for something as stupid as dissent and then get kicked out of the academy and ruin any footballing career they had/wanted) but you still get the odd few that aren’t, and for the supply leagues well if you’ve ever seen a Wessex or Southern league game, then I’m sure you’d of heard/seen it all. As I’m strict on it as we’re not told to let it go and such, like the higher refs are, but we still can’t do everything about it, seeing how there’s a league based on club marks which is a factor in deciding who goes up/down the refereeing ladder, and teams would obviously prefer a ref that just ignored the abuse and didn’t send off/caution any players, to one that didn’t take the abuse and sent off multiple players on both sides, hence the lower club marks. But if all refs kept to that, then as you sad, it would get a lot better.
And diving wise I also agree (although there is leeway given on it, as if any contact (and when I say contact I mean slight or more, so doesn’t necessarily have to be too much) is made then yellows can’t be given for simulation, as a player could argue that irrelevant of whether we thought it was a foul or not, it’s what made them fall over. But why it couldn’t be a red card (especially with how hard/rare they are to give out) and like a 2 game ban I don’t know, as like you said it would solve the issue.
And yeah managers do cause many issues which do impact on players (as I’ve been a senior linesman (aka the one on the bench side) many times and have had to put up with some really abysmal coaches) but I guess if refs were stricter on players, then they’d also be on coaches, as well as the players realising they can’t be like the coaches or they’ll get sent off.
But yeah I think basically everything you said there was spot on
Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 11:35 - May 11 by ElijahK
Yeah Nick I think you’ve got everything spot on here, as players can be respectful to reds, it’s just the way that FA/FIFA do it allow them to get away with it. As it happens at many different levels, as at the top they’re told to just get on with it, even though they shouldn’t (as for example, that Leeds player should’ve received a second yellow for dissent when the ref went to VAR to check on the red for the excessive force challenge that their defender did on the Arsenal lad, as the player got booked straight away for dissent (so clearly said something to him) and should’ve been booked again for it, but didn’t, hence why he and many others continue to do it as they think they can get away with it). As even at my levels with the Wessex league/academies, it’s similar. As at the academies the players are usually well behaved (as of course they don’t wanna get sent off for something as stupid as dissent and then get kicked out of the academy and ruin any footballing career they had/wanted) but you still get the odd few that aren’t, and for the supply leagues well if you’ve ever seen a Wessex or Southern league game, then I’m sure you’d of heard/seen it all. As I’m strict on it as we’re not told to let it go and such, like the higher refs are, but we still can’t do everything about it, seeing how there’s a league based on club marks which is a factor in deciding who goes up/down the refereeing ladder, and teams would obviously prefer a ref that just ignored the abuse and didn’t send off/caution any players, to one that didn’t take the abuse and sent off multiple players on both sides, hence the lower club marks. But if all refs kept to that, then as you sad, it would get a lot better.
And diving wise I also agree (although there is leeway given on it, as if any contact (and when I say contact I mean slight or more, so doesn’t necessarily have to be too much) is made then yellows can’t be given for simulation, as a player could argue that irrelevant of whether we thought it was a foul or not, it’s what made them fall over. But why it couldn’t be a red card (especially with how hard/rare they are to give out) and like a 2 game ban I don’t know, as like you said it would solve the issue.
And yeah managers do cause many issues which do impact on players (as I’ve been a senior linesman (aka the one on the bench side) many times and have had to put up with some really abysmal coaches) but I guess if refs were stricter on players, then they’d also be on coaches, as well as the players realising they can’t be like the coaches or they’ll get sent off.
But yeah I think basically everything you said there was spot on
I must admit I wouldn't mind having Rice in our defence.
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Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 10:00 - May 12 with 874 views
Refs at lower levels are not as good as those at PL level, but that is largely down to fitness, the wish of the authorities to keep their "product" watchable (nobody is here to see the ref) and therefore introduce rules to "keep the game flowing".
At the same time the FA/PL etc allow players to dive, fake injuries to stop the game, time waste (I would fine both clubs if the playing time in a match was less than 75 minutes and would suspend players from clubs if they picked up three fines in a season, starting with the biggest culprits, the GKs).
So I have sympathy for refs who are often between a rock and a hard place.
Nonetheless they could help themselves HUGELY by explaining their decisions via a post match press con or via the PGMOL. For so long as they don't suspicion will remian.
(As for local league refs, aside from the incident above, I'm convinced that I've encountered blatant bias (perhaps reaching corruption) on half a dozen dates in a 15 year playing career. This includes being sent off for something another player said - a player who told the ref on the pitch that it was him and not me - a charge I challenged and which was removed from my record - no action against the ref. I have also seen our GK sent off within the first ten minutes of a game for "time wasting" even though at the time we were losing.
I tried being a ref - Sunday league stuff - and it's hard. I bumped into players I knew often enough and did my best not to prejudge them (even though one or two were known to be "robust" in their tackling). It's true that the only person on the pitch who can never win is the ref, but a stubborn obstinacy to even consider moves to make them more human and more accountable is baffling.
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Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 18:28 - May 12 with 778 views
Rice to be suspended for 3 game European ban on 10:00 - May 12 by saint901
Refs at lower levels are not as good as those at PL level, but that is largely down to fitness, the wish of the authorities to keep their "product" watchable (nobody is here to see the ref) and therefore introduce rules to "keep the game flowing".
At the same time the FA/PL etc allow players to dive, fake injuries to stop the game, time waste (I would fine both clubs if the playing time in a match was less than 75 minutes and would suspend players from clubs if they picked up three fines in a season, starting with the biggest culprits, the GKs).
So I have sympathy for refs who are often between a rock and a hard place.
Nonetheless they could help themselves HUGELY by explaining their decisions via a post match press con or via the PGMOL. For so long as they don't suspicion will remian.
(As for local league refs, aside from the incident above, I'm convinced that I've encountered blatant bias (perhaps reaching corruption) on half a dozen dates in a 15 year playing career. This includes being sent off for something another player said - a player who told the ref on the pitch that it was him and not me - a charge I challenged and which was removed from my record - no action against the ref. I have also seen our GK sent off within the first ten minutes of a game for "time wasting" even though at the time we were losing.
I tried being a ref - Sunday league stuff - and it's hard. I bumped into players I knew often enough and did my best not to prejudge them (even though one or two were known to be "robust" in their tackling). It's true that the only person on the pitch who can never win is the ref, but a stubborn obstinacy to even consider moves to make them more human and more accountable is baffling.
Yeah well there are many rules/things refs are told which they have to follow, which the average fan/player doesn’t know about (like the rules behind simulation, time wasting, dissent etc) which is something that can be quite annoying to see they get stick for.
But those scenarios you said there are certainly inserting to hear, as some are ones that with my own experience/knowledge can understand why it may have happened whilst others I’ve got no idea from. As the ref sending off your keeper for time wasting (which I presume was a second cautioning), well if it’s how you’ve said, unless he really was taking ages and had already been warned then I’ve got no idea how that is. But for the mistaken identity, that’s a tad less rare as if a fight breaks out/ in a clump of players someone handballs the ball on the line, it can be hard to identify who the culprit was (especially with no linesmen) but you shouldn’t listen to players from ether team (so wether it was a teammate of an opponent who said it was you is basically irrelevant) so the ref messed up there, but at the same time I don’t think they should be charged for a mistake unless there’s a bit more to that situation.
But yeah everything else you’ve said I agree with as many refs I work with are quite old/overweight, whilst very few are actually young and fit, which is a major reason behind the difference in quality of officiating.
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