| DoF 19:57 - Jan 7 with 15009 views | RuislipHoop |
Les F and Chris R have been in charge of Football at this club since 2015,recruitment,technical and all playing matters with not a sign of success at any level,at wot point do the owners think “ maybe this isnt working ?” |  | | |  |
| DoF on 12:30 - Jan 9 with 1913 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 12:17 - Jan 9 by Dixie_CT |
Dieng played about 50 first team games before he ended up at QPR.
1) How many at Championship level? How many play 100+ games or are sold?
2) isn’t that six players across the 20 PL clubs?
3) We do have a choice.
I think you also have to take into account London being a super competitive market compared to other parts of the country. Southampton have a broad and exclusive geographic reach and even they have satellites in London at the Westway in W10. |
- On Dieng:
Grasshoppers II is the reserve team. The other sides were amateur teams. He played no first team professional first team games.
- On graduates playing 100+ games after being sold:
Furlong, Lumley, Eze, Bright (a stretch granted), Bowler, Laurent have played over 100+ games at Championship and Premiership level. I’m sure I’ve forgotten some too.
Also Kakay, Hamelainen, Shodipo who might not be everyone’s cup or tea or who could be described at elite have played loads of Championship games for us.
[Post edited 9 Jan 2023 12:49]
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| DoF on 12:53 - Jan 9 with 1830 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| DoF on 11:37 - Jan 9 by swisscottage |
"Scrap the entire system, save the money and use the cash toimprove the 1st team."
And there's the flaw.
You're assuming that any costs from the academy system can be reinvested into the first team.
That isn't the case.
The academy costs do not contribute to FFP calculations.
It is in fact an area the owners can pile money into the club that over time can benefit the first team, without being included in FFP.
If the owner put in 100mil into the academy system over ten years that generates 30 million pounds worth of players for the first team and that could be sold ... that is effectively 30million going into the first team that couldn't otherwise be put in. these numbers are inflated but are just to make an illustration.
Its incredibly inefficient effectively getting 30p in the pound out of your investment, but is a way to top up the first team in the long term over and above what's allowed from FFP..
LF returned as DoF in 2014 and alongside Chris Ramsey was appointed.
I think it took at least 2 years to properly restart the youth system at all levels.
Bear in mind this is a new youth system, and not established, so you don't have a conveyor belt of players .. players you get in at the older age groups may not really be the level of quality needed, but they just form a base.
the under 9s from 2014 are now probably now just playing in the U18s.
Strangely enough, the U18s seem to be doing quite well this season, 8 wins 5 defeats, recently beating Spuds U18s in 3rd round of their FACup
[Post edited 9 Jan 2023 11:51]
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Good point about the academy. It will take years, even from now, to have a conveyor belt of players coming through.
Someone mentioned Southampton earlier, and they are an excellent example of what can be achieved with a top academy. They produced a crop of youngster that won promotion from League 1 and then the Championship, so it can be done.
People calling for the academy to be closed (er, we just spent £40m+ building it) or coaches to be sacked need to understand that it takes a long time to bring players through.
Our Academy has only really restarted 8 years ago with Ramsey. So an U9 then is now a U17/8. The current U18s look miles ahead of the current U21s and B team it terms of technical ability and pace, so for those looking for youngsters coming through then look to the U18s, but it will be 2 or 3 years before see them in a first team shirt. And even then only 1 or 2 may be good enough, hence we need time to build that conveyor belt of talent coming through. | | | |
| DoF on 13:05 - Jan 9 with 1789 views | Dixie_CT |
| DoF on 12:30 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
- On Dieng:
Grasshoppers II is the reserve team. The other sides were amateur teams. He played no first team professional first team games.
- On graduates playing 100+ games after being sold:
Furlong, Lumley, Eze, Bright (a stretch granted), Bowler, Laurent have played over 100+ games at Championship and Premiership level. I’m sure I’ve forgotten some too.
Also Kakay, Hamelainen, Shodipo who might not be everyone’s cup or tea or who could be described at elite have played loads of Championship games for us.
[Post edited 9 Jan 2023 12:49]
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Slighlty getting into semantics about Dieng but he played 50 adult games on a pro contract and can’t be deemed an academy success for us.
Same as Bright, he was signed as a pro having played over 60 first team games. He is not a success of our academy.
When Kakay, Niko, and Shodipo, are released, I doubt they will play another 50 games at Championship Level.
Lumley left for free but did get into our first team and will probably play at Champ/League One.
Bowler was a financial success.
Furlong and Eze are the only ones who impacted our first team that we also we sold for a profit. Darnell was here partly because his Dad was.
This isn’t really evidence that the Academy is working. |  | | |
| DoF on 13:14 - Jan 9 with 1748 views | traininvain |
The new training ground should help with the academy and development of youngsters. I know a youngster (youth international) who recently had trials with QPR and Watford u18’s. He was very negative about the training facilities at QPR.
Worth pointing out as presumably having poor training facilities has made us a less attractive proposition for youngsters who can choose between a number of clubs which can’t help our chances of attracting and retaining the few youngsters good enough for Championship/Premiership football. |  | | |
| DoF on 13:23 - Jan 9 with 1709 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 13:05 - Jan 9 by Dixie_CT |
Slighlty getting into semantics about Dieng but he played 50 adult games on a pro contract and can’t be deemed an academy success for us.
Same as Bright, he was signed as a pro having played over 60 first team games. He is not a success of our academy.
When Kakay, Niko, and Shodipo, are released, I doubt they will play another 50 games at Championship Level.
Lumley left for free but did get into our first team and will probably play at Champ/League One.
Bowler was a financial success.
Furlong and Eze are the only ones who impacted our first team that we also we sold for a profit. Darnell was here partly because his Dad was.
This isn’t really evidence that the Academy is working. |
- Dieng wasn’t an adult and not professional. He was a teenager when he signed.
- We don’t have an academy.
- West Brom didn’t give Furlong games for his Dad.
- Bright was signed as a U23 [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 13:27]
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| DoF on 13:41 - Jan 9 with 1689 views | QPR_Jim |
| DoF on 13:05 - Jan 9 by Dixie_CT |
Slighlty getting into semantics about Dieng but he played 50 adult games on a pro contract and can’t be deemed an academy success for us.
Same as Bright, he was signed as a pro having played over 60 first team games. He is not a success of our academy.
When Kakay, Niko, and Shodipo, are released, I doubt they will play another 50 games at Championship Level.
Lumley left for free but did get into our first team and will probably play at Champ/League One.
Bowler was a financial success.
Furlong and Eze are the only ones who impacted our first team that we also we sold for a profit. Darnell was here partly because his Dad was.
This isn’t really evidence that the Academy is working. |
Cole Kpekawa was a financial success as well, although not a good advert for the quality of the youth team.
Eze, Bright, Dieng, Chair, Manning, Dunne and maybe even Willock aren't the types of signing that a manager would make because they arrive and spend 6 months to a year in the development team polishing them up. So I think the DoF model is working for us in that sense. I think we need it to work like that while the youth team gets going.
I'm fine with those players not being considered youth team products, but at the other end of the spectrum, how long does a player need to be at QPR and in the youth system as organised by LF & CR before their lack of quality can be attributed to the youth team set up? If as suggested in another post it took them 2 years to get the system in place, then our U21's from last season would have been at U16 already which is quite along way into their development. So would it be fair to blame the youth system if none of the U21's are ready to make the step up if we can't credit the youth team/development team when they take a released 18 year old and get them into the first team? |  | | |
| DoF on 14:18 - Jan 9 with 1612 views | Dixie_CT |
| DoF on 13:23 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
- Dieng wasn’t an adult and not professional. He was a teenager when he signed.
- We don’t have an academy.
- West Brom didn’t give Furlong games for his Dad.
- Bright was signed as a U23 [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 13:27]
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Seny was 21 when he signed.
What do you mean we don’t have an academy?
I was referring to why Darnell was in our academy as an 8 year old, not after a pro club had forked out £1.5m on him.
Bright wasn’t signed for the U23’s
https://www.qpr.co.uk/news/club-news/bright-osayi-samuel-joins-from-blackpool/
Some of the points are subjective but you are objectively wrong on a few things.
You obviously think our youth team and recruitment is better than I do but the points you are using as arguments are factually flawed. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 14:19]
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| DoF on 15:57 - Jan 9 with 1524 views | Burnleyhoop |
Many mistakes have been made over recent years, but the most egregious have been the selection and appointment of managers.
For me, the success or failure of the team lands squarely with the manager, his player acquisitions and ability to instil a culture of professionalism and hard work.
With the exception of Warnock and up until Warburton, the managers brought in by the new owners have been shocking.
I believe the player recruitment strategy is by and large ok, but we have definitely held on to a fair few players too long, in the forlorn hope they may come good.
Crithley is now the 3rd manager to cast his eye over our current squad and has come to same conclusion as the other two and what we knew ages ago.
We do have a core group of very decent championship players, but it is surely now obvious to everyone at the club that we are carrying a fair amount of dead wood, that are not adequately contributing and need to be moved on.
Saturday was a day reckoning for all concerned and action needs to be taken, as sitting on our hands hoping for better will not improve the situation.
January is here Les, do what needs to be done. | | | |
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| DoF on 17:13 - Jan 9 with 1421 views | PunteR |
| DoF on 10:49 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Sorry mate, I have no idea what that means. |
Just a daft comment mate. Suppose to be funny, but it's Monday. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| DoF on 17:53 - Jan 9 with 1353 views | DejR_vu |
| DoF on 13:05 - Jan 9 by Dixie_CT |
Slighlty getting into semantics about Dieng but he played 50 adult games on a pro contract and can’t be deemed an academy success for us.
Same as Bright, he was signed as a pro having played over 60 first team games. He is not a success of our academy.
When Kakay, Niko, and Shodipo, are released, I doubt they will play another 50 games at Championship Level.
Lumley left for free but did get into our first team and will probably play at Champ/League One.
Bowler was a financial success.
Furlong and Eze are the only ones who impacted our first team that we also we sold for a profit. Darnell was here partly because his Dad was.
This isn’t really evidence that the Academy is working. |
Point of order gents, Eze was never in our academy. He signed at 18 after not being offered a contract at Millwall at the end of his Scholarship.
Furlong, as we know, did come through, but that was before the current regime arrived. He made his debut at age 19 in 2015. | |
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| DoF on 18:07 - Jan 9 with 1324 views | Dixie_CT |
| DoF on 17:53 - Jan 9 by DejR_vu |
Point of order gents, Eze was never in our academy. He signed at 18 after not being offered a contract at Millwall at the end of his Scholarship.
Furlong, as we know, did come through, but that was before the current regime arrived. He made his debut at age 19 in 2015. |
Eze was signed for the Development squad, not the first team:
https://web.archive.org/web/20161104211325/ http://www.qpr.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/qpr-eberechi-eze-qpr-under-21s-3223231
Who knew this baby faced magician was going to bring us such joy! I think he made his debut in the FA Cup v Blackburn at home, as a number 9, and went off injured very early on. He looked absolutely gutted at the time. | | | |
| DoF on 22:53 - Jan 9 with 1157 views | digswellhoop |
they not up to job | | | |
| DoF on 09:29 - Jan 10 with 960 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Leaving aside the semantics, I think it would be unfair of any of us to deny credit to Ramsey and Hall for Eze, Chair, Dieng and other lads signed in their late teens. They found them, signed them and turned them into first teamers and we've made millions as a result, and will hopefully make many more.
The above three have been effusive in their praise for Ramsey and Hall, and Impey as well if I recall, for their part developing them. They get enough grief, so we should give them the credit for this if the players are saying they deserve it. |  |
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