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...all wanting to leave at the same time for whatever reason, it put me in mind of this little scene from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life. I wonder if Holloway got them alll in for a 'chat' and said if you don't wanna be 'ere, you're welcome leave.
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With so many first teamers... on 09:42 - Jan 11 with 7584 views
With so many first teamers... on 09:42 - Jan 11 by dannyblue
Spot on
Feels like Ollie's been a Bull in our decent well organised boring if slightly under performing China shop and I'm not sure that's what was needed.
Yeah... I was growing to love the boring, slightly underperforming QPR...(sigh). Newcastle at home was probably my favourite example of underforming boring-ness.
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With so many first teamers... on 10:30 - Jan 11 with 7491 views
With so many first teamers... on 09:58 - Jan 11 by Rs_Holy
Yeah... I was growing to love the boring, slightly underperforming QPR...(sigh). Newcastle at home was probably my favourite example of underforming boring-ness.
Although that was a terrible performance, and an indication that something was very wrong, at least you could argue that Newcastle have a Premiership manager and squad.
Our real problem is that we have not been able to handle some of the more ordinary sides in the division.
Air hostess clique
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With so many first teamers... on 11:08 - Jan 11 with 7443 views
With so many first teamers... on 10:30 - Jan 11 by TacticalR
Although that was a terrible performance, and an indication that something was very wrong, at least you could argue that Newcastle have a Premiership manager and squad.
Our real problem is that we have not been able to handle some of the more ordinary sides in the division.
"most" of the ordinary sides in the division.
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With so many first teamers... on 11:12 - Jan 11 with 7424 views
Who are the so many first teamers upset and wanting to leave? Henry seems to be the only one to have fallen out with Holloway.
Other than that Chery is going for money which is fair enough, Polter wanted to go back to Germany and we got a good offer and Nasser/Gladwin are off on loan as they've not been very good. If we had appointed a different manager I think the same players would have been off this window
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With so many first teamers... on 11:37 - Jan 11 with 7375 views
With so many first teamers... on 11:12 - Jan 11 by daveB
Who are the so many first teamers upset and wanting to leave? Henry seems to be the only one to have fallen out with Holloway.
Other than that Chery is going for money which is fair enough, Polter wanted to go back to Germany and we got a good offer and Nasser/Gladwin are off on loan as they've not been very good. If we had appointed a different manager I think the same players would have been off this window
Don't think anyone here has suggested anyone's upset, just that they'd all rather be somewhere else for whatever reason.
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With so many first teamers... on 11:37 - Jan 11 with 7364 views
With so many first teamers... on 10:30 - Jan 11 by TacticalR
Although that was a terrible performance, and an indication that something was very wrong, at least you could argue that Newcastle have a Premiership manager and squad.
Our real problem is that we have not been able to handle some of the more ordinary sides in the division.
When I was doing those stats on the 'Holloway's Post-Match Comments' thread, I was concerned that the Newcastle game might skew Hasselbaink's averages inordinately. Far from it. Hasselbaink's stats swallowed that performance and still came out much better than Holloway's.
But when you try to sense the character of both manager's performances, Holloway wins. What is this, some kind of collective misperception?
With so many first teamers... on 11:37 - Jan 11 by isawqpratwcity
When I was doing those stats on the 'Holloway's Post-Match Comments' thread, I was concerned that the Newcastle game might skew Hasselbaink's averages inordinately. Far from it. Hasselbaink's stats swallowed that performance and still came out much better than Holloway's.
But when you try to sense the character of both manager's performances, Holloway wins. What is this, some kind of collective misperception?
The only stats that actually matter are the number of points won and league position. Hasselbaink is marginally better at the moment on points won but the league position is exactly the same.
With so many first teamers... on 12:10 - Jan 11 by daveB
The only stats that actually matter are the number of points won and league position. Hasselbaink is marginally better at the moment on points won but the league position is exactly the same.
You acknowledged something!
Now, if Holloway can 'marginally' improve his points won to Hasselbaink levels then we can all stop worrying about relegation.
With so many first teamers... on 12:38 - Jan 11 by PinnerPaul
No they weren't - but they certainly aren't now either!
Please please please can people just give Ollie the benefit of 1 bleed'n transfer window and 7 or 8 games after the window has closed........ Please???
[Post edited 11 Jan 2017 14:18]
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With so many first teamers... on 13:34 - Jan 11 with 7032 views
With so many first teamers... on 13:20 - Jan 11 by Rs_Holy
Please please please can people just give Ollie the benefit of 1 bleed'n transfer window and 7 or 8 games after the window has closed........ Please???
[Post edited 11 Jan 2017 14:18]
Very true - he deserves longer than what he's had and he will hopefully turn things around given time.
When he arrived, he spoke with so much passion about how we would play, he was positive about all the players that were at his disposal, his enthusiasm was infectious. But when you're looking for positives now, be it tactical decisions, leadership/ management qualities which back-up the "big words", I've been underwhelmed so far.
I don't think there's one player you could really say has improved/caught the eye since Holloway returned, while at the same time quite a few have gone backwards - Shodipo, the Polish centre midfielder, Washington to an extent, Polter arguably Llongo.
It's not lost on me that the two players that have really stood up (admittedly one only in recent weeks) have been the goalkeeper - he's not only a great keeper but he's been made to work because of how open we are - and Mackie, someone that epitomises what Ian Holloway is about. What I want to see is him get in the heads, in the hearts, of other 'non typical Holloway players' and put to bed the allegations that he "need a British nucleus" to his sides to be successful. I want to see him develop and improve players already on our books as well as bringing in one or two additions to compliment what we have. At the moment I'm not seeing that but hopefully given time we'll all start to see it. Time will tell.
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With so many first teamers... on 13:58 - Jan 11 with 6946 views
With so many first teamers... on 09:58 - Jan 11 by Rs_Holy
Yeah... I was growing to love the boring, slightly underperforming QPR...(sigh). Newcastle at home was probably my favourite example of underforming boring-ness.
My point is that I think the squad was ok, the players were good enough for the division, they were fit, well organised, pulling in the same direction and working hard to try and follow their manager's plans. It certainly wasn't great, and something was definitely missing, but it seemed to me it only needed tweaking. Perhaps less physical effort expended in training and the shackles released a bit with the ball. Maybe it needed someone fresh, maybe JFH would have found what was necessary, but the platform was good, even Holloway said so when he first came.
But now Holloway is ripping it all up. He's bombing them out public;y. Not in itself necessarily a bad approach if warranted, but I just don't think it was in this instance. For example saying "that team won't play again". Today he's quoted as saying "You can’t be a luxury at this level like Mr Chery, who takes set-plays and corners and free-kicks. At this level you’ve got to have everyone in it together and putting a shift in". Well despite his wayward form I don't think Chery wasn't putting a shift in. I don't think that BFG wasn't working hard.
He's shaking everything up and so far it isn't making things better. In fact things have got a lot worse:
-9 goal difference and 1.26 points per game over 19 games for JFH. -10 goal difference, 0.9 points per game over 10 games for IH. (Including cup games)
There has been a dramatic drop in form seems to suggest the team are struggling to adapt to Ollie's methods. We also wasted time while he had to learn what we already knew.e.g., no point playing Sandro, Gladwin can't cut it, Wszolek should start, Washington struggles up front alone...
I love Ian Holloway for what he did when first managing the club. I can be inspired by his enthusiasm. I just think that at this time evolution would have been preferable to revolution.
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With so many first teamers... on 14:08 - Jan 11 with 6919 views
With so many first teamers... on 13:50 - Jan 11 by PhilmyRs
Very true - he deserves longer than what he's had and he will hopefully turn things around given time.
When he arrived, he spoke with so much passion about how we would play, he was positive about all the players that were at his disposal, his enthusiasm was infectious. But when you're looking for positives now, be it tactical decisions, leadership/ management qualities which back-up the "big words", I've been underwhelmed so far.
I don't think there's one player you could really say has improved/caught the eye since Holloway returned, while at the same time quite a few have gone backwards - Shodipo, the Polish centre midfielder, Washington to an extent, Polter arguably Llongo.
It's not lost on me that the two players that have really stood up (admittedly one only in recent weeks) have been the goalkeeper - he's not only a great keeper but he's been made to work because of how open we are - and Mackie, someone that epitomises what Ian Holloway is about. What I want to see is him get in the heads, in the hearts, of other 'non typical Holloway players' and put to bed the allegations that he "need a British nucleus" to his sides to be successful. I want to see him develop and improve players already on our books as well as bringing in one or two additions to compliment what we have. At the moment I'm not seeing that but hopefully given time we'll all start to see it. Time will tell.
Well, Wszolek for a start. Cousins on the unfortunately too rare occasions when he's played.
But until the players buy into and understand the system you'd expect them to struggle. Which is why this crazy idea of our managers only getting 12 months hurts us again and again. I don't really care who we have as manager at this point, I just want them to be given at least 2 years to mould the team.
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With so many first teamers... on 14:17 - Jan 11 with 6883 views
With so many first teamers... on 14:08 - Jan 11 by Match82
Well, Wszolek for a start. Cousins on the unfortunately too rare occasions when he's played.
But until the players buy into and understand the system you'd expect them to struggle. Which is why this crazy idea of our managers only getting 12 months hurts us again and again. I don't really care who we have as manager at this point, I just want them to be given at least 2 years to mould the team.
I actually thought Wszokel was playing well under JFH and then was not seen for a few weeks following Holloway’s arrival — vaguely remember something about he “couldn’t understand English instructions” or maybe I’m imagining that.
In short, Wszolek was playing well pre-Holloway and is now returning to those levels. I don’t think you can credit Holloway too much with his improvement. Cousins…? Clutching at straws with that one as he’s been pretty poor and rarely played all season.
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With so many first teamers... on 14:29 - Jan 11 with 6838 views
With so many first teamers... on 13:20 - Jan 11 by Rs_Holy
Please please please can people just give Ollie the benefit of 1 bleed'n transfer window and 7 or 8 games after the window has closed........ Please???
[Post edited 11 Jan 2017 14:18]
When Millwall did that he got 7 new players in the summer, 3 more in January and they got relegated... so I hope recent past results are not an indicator of future results.
100% of people who drink water will die.
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With so many first teamers... on 14:38 - Jan 11 with 6798 views
With so many first teamers... on 13:58 - Jan 11 by dannyblue
My point is that I think the squad was ok, the players were good enough for the division, they were fit, well organised, pulling in the same direction and working hard to try and follow their manager's plans. It certainly wasn't great, and something was definitely missing, but it seemed to me it only needed tweaking. Perhaps less physical effort expended in training and the shackles released a bit with the ball. Maybe it needed someone fresh, maybe JFH would have found what was necessary, but the platform was good, even Holloway said so when he first came.
But now Holloway is ripping it all up. He's bombing them out public;y. Not in itself necessarily a bad approach if warranted, but I just don't think it was in this instance. For example saying "that team won't play again". Today he's quoted as saying "You can’t be a luxury at this level like Mr Chery, who takes set-plays and corners and free-kicks. At this level you’ve got to have everyone in it together and putting a shift in". Well despite his wayward form I don't think Chery wasn't putting a shift in. I don't think that BFG wasn't working hard.
He's shaking everything up and so far it isn't making things better. In fact things have got a lot worse:
-9 goal difference and 1.26 points per game over 19 games for JFH. -10 goal difference, 0.9 points per game over 10 games for IH. (Including cup games)
There has been a dramatic drop in form seems to suggest the team are struggling to adapt to Ollie's methods. We also wasted time while he had to learn what we already knew.e.g., no point playing Sandro, Gladwin can't cut it, Wszolek should start, Washington struggles up front alone...
I love Ian Holloway for what he did when first managing the club. I can be inspired by his enthusiasm. I just think that at this time evolution would have been preferable to revolution.
I agree with all that. It wouldn't have been my preference to change the manager now or on the previous occasion. Think back to when JFH took over, how many games was it before he got a win...around 10 I think. That Christmas period 2015/16 was awful, so many late goals as the team ran out of steam and so many points dropped from winning positions. Another case, although a lesser one, of tearing up the plan and starting again.
However, decision made now, no going back, the six successive defeats done, nine points on the board. We have made our choice let's get on with it.
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With so many first teamers... on 15:28 - Jan 11 with 6752 views
With so many first teamers... on 13:20 - Jan 11 by Rs_Holy
Please please please can people just give Ollie the benefit of 1 bleed'n transfer window and 7 or 8 games after the window has closed........ Please???
[Post edited 11 Jan 2017 14:18]
We're not arguing about what might or might not happen, we're deciding if we're all dancing in a Holloway winter wonderland at the moment or not!
Thrilled by the exciting football, marvelling at the improvement in the players, heartened by the team spirit on show and trying to ignore/not worry about 6+ of them leaving.
Its all very well having a dig at JFH but as we have all (finally) agreed, that points wise, matches won, goals scored/conceded we're actually worse off CURRENTLY under IH, its surely sensible to be a little concerned, especially as you say, we need to hope that IH's replacements hit the ground running - another 10 matches & only 9 points won will still leave us in trouble.
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With so many first teamers... on 17:20 - Jan 11 with 6643 views
I didn't want Hasselbaink to go but I don't get all this about us going backwards since he's gone. He won 2 of his last 11 games, we were dropping like a stone after a good first month. If he had stayed I don't think we'd be in a much better position than we are now. We might have drawn a few more but I'm not sure he'd have won 3 of the last 9 games either
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With so many first teamers... on 21:52 - Jan 11 with 6524 views
With so many first teamers... on 17:20 - Jan 11 by daveB
I didn't want Hasselbaink to go but I don't get all this about us going backwards since he's gone. He won 2 of his last 11 games, we were dropping like a stone after a good first month. If he had stayed I don't think we'd be in a much better position than we are now. We might have drawn a few more but I'm not sure he'd have won 3 of the last 9 games either
Ah jeez.
The meat on Hasselbaink's carcass was pretty thin, but what gives you the right to fillet the meat off, throw it away and say 'look, nothing but bones!'
At least give Jimmy the benefit of all of his part in this season. Those points still count.
And btw, you describe the August-excluded Hasselbaink record as "dropping like a stone", well you might want to re-think that one. After August, JFH's record drops to a point a game. Yes, exactly the same as Holloway's.
Interesting to look back at what the manager was saying about the players in the first few days after his re-appointment, when the remit seemed to be gee-ing up a promising but flawed and inexperienced set of young players.
Ben Gladwin “He’s got unbelievable ability. I want to encourage him to use it.” Already out of the door.
Massimo Luongo “Has fantastic feet and puts his foot in as well.” Out of favour, may well be gone by the end of the month.
Tjaronn Chery “He’s got the happiest feet I’ve seen. So sharp, great balance. I didn’t realise before looking at the running stats that he’s got a great engine — he really does keep going. And last weekend against Nottingham Forest I thought he was brilliant when he dropped back in midfield.” Gone.
Yeni Ngbakoto “Crikey, he has got happy feet. Unbelievable. So quick.” Publicly called a lard arse.
Olamide Shodipo “All sorts of talent.” On the bench.
Sebastian Polter “Big Polts is getting better all the time. He’ll chase pigeons.” Gone.
Nasser El Khayati “Wonderful feet! Has he fitted in here yet? I don’t know. But he’s a wonderful player I’m telling you.” Going.
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