| The End of Russia as we know it ? 17:58 - Apr 6 with 3272 views | johnlangy |
When the war in Ukraine is over and if we're still around will it be the end of Russia as we know it ?
After the war Russia will become a pariah state and the vast majority of countries will sever connections with it. Within a relatively short space of time countries in the West will have weaned themselves off the reliance on Russia for their oil and gas. Doing so will deprive Russia of the value of 60% of its exports (2019 figures). The rouble will be virtually worthless.
Meantime older people who rely on the state controlled media for their news and who actually believe this news (lies) will be dying off. All the while younger people who have become used to the net for their news will understand the reason for their country having become a third world economy where they can't afford to do anything outside of Russia. Imagine the cost of a holiday then to Spain if you want to pay in roubles.
So they'll understand why Russia is a pariah state. Because of Putin. They'll know that it really was a war not a Special Military Exercise. They'll know that thousands of Ukrainians will have been killed by their army (which 200,000 of them are part of). The 11 million Russians with family ties to Ukrainians will have come to the realisation that what they were being told by their Ukrainian relatives is actually the truth.
And at some point because they will finally know the truth of what their government has done surely the Russian people are finally going to say enough is enough and fundamentally change their country. Because it's only they can do anything about it.
In the meantime hopefully Putin will have died or been killed off through a coup. Or just by one man and a gun. And then one of the other lunatics may see a chance of taking over.
So, as I say, if they don't want to be back at square one just with a different lunatic in charge it will be down to the Russian people.
A bit of a rant i'm afraid. |  | | |  |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 18:20 - Apr 6 with 2665 views | raynor94 |
Excellent summing up |  |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 18:40 - Apr 6 with 2640 views | 73__73 |
You talk about Russian lies, what about the lies from the west.
I don’t think you understand the Russian mentality.
As former Russian PM Medvedev said recently the more you punish Russia with sanctions etc, the more the people of Russia come together.
So if you are expecting Russia to somehow collapse, you may have a very long wait. | |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:00 - Apr 6 with 2623 views | shingle |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 18:40 - Apr 6 by 73__73 |
You talk about Russian lies, what about the lies from the west.
I don’t think you understand the Russian mentality.
As former Russian PM Medvedev said recently the more you punish Russia with sanctions etc, the more the people of Russia come together.
So if you are expecting Russia to somehow collapse, you may have a very long wait. |
Then let them come together and enjoy each other because they wont be enjoying much else, probably just what a nation of easily led dimwits deserve. | | | |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:01 - Apr 6 with 2618 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
I'm not sure any of us can be sure what will happen, we are all in a far more precarious position than most realise...is my hunch.
Even if everything went our way and Russia was a broken, humiliated country there is a chance that they will lash out at us, whomever is in charge...and for whatever reasons that will be invented to justify the lashing out (like when USA lashed out at Iraq after 9/11...it didn't make much sense but the American people wanted something done and the elites were pissed at Sadaam Hussein from previous and used the opportunity for a free shot).
There is a chance that Russia won't be a broken country, that they will just be a changed country, only now they will be more closely aligned with China...
The only thing I would bet on is that they won't be able to subdue Ukraine. |  |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:07 - Apr 6 with 2612 views | 73__73 |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:00 - Apr 6 by shingle |
Then let them come together and enjoy each other because they wont be enjoying much else, probably just what a nation of easily led dimwits deserve. |
They seem on decent terms with 1.4 billion Chinese and 1.3 billion Indians.
It’s us here in the west that may come off worse.
Tell me what does Russia, Iraq, Libya, Iran all have in common ? | |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:44 - Apr 6 with 2584 views | Flashberryjack |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:07 - Apr 6 by 73__73 |
They seem on decent terms with 1.4 billion Chinese and 1.3 billion Indians.
It’s us here in the west that may come off worse.
Tell me what does Russia, Iraq, Libya, Iran all have in common ? |
They are all great democratic countries, with freedom of movement, religion and expression ? |  |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:49 - Apr 6 with 2580 views | 73__73 |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:44 - Apr 6 by Flashberryjack |
They are all great democratic countries, with freedom of movement, religion and expression ? |
They all wanted to move away from the Dollar being the reserve currency and to pay for oil in gold for example.
Bit of a coincidence don’t you think that all these countries are facing the wrath of the USA and the west. | |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:49 - Apr 6 with 2581 views | Lohengrin |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:07 - Apr 6 by 73__73 |
They seem on decent terms with 1.4 billion Chinese and 1.3 billion Indians.
It’s us here in the west that may come off worse.
Tell me what does Russia, Iraq, Libya, Iran all have in common ? |
Ghastly tailoring. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 21:02 - Apr 6 with 2517 views | KeithHaynes |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:49 - Apr 6 by Lohengrin |
Ghastly tailoring. |
Definitely a similar line in peek a boo headwear. |  |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 22:48 - Apr 6 with 2472 views | majorraglan |
To be honest I don’t know what’s going to happen. Putin and his people have a really strong grip on the country and even if he departs there’s no guarantee the replacement won’t be from within. All the people at the top have their fingers in the pie and I can’t see things changing. The Kremlin have a really tight grip on the media and by enlarge the people only get the state narrative, there’s going to have to be a massive change for that the break. In China, the State has an even bigger grip of the media.
I am not convinced some European countries will treat Putin like a pariah because they’ll put their own interests first, Hungary being one. Reading different media streams over the last few days and I was struck by the allegations that Orban is trying to control the media , etc, pack the Courts and Judges with his people.
For democracy to flourish there needs to be a healthy independent press.
What has to be avoided is a post WW1 scenario where Germany went in to a huge depression and ultimately led to Hitler coming to power. | | | |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 23:39 - Apr 6 with 2452 views | STID2017 |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:01 - Apr 6 by Ajack_Kerouac |
I'm not sure any of us can be sure what will happen, we are all in a far more precarious position than most realise...is my hunch.
Even if everything went our way and Russia was a broken, humiliated country there is a chance that they will lash out at us, whomever is in charge...and for whatever reasons that will be invented to justify the lashing out (like when USA lashed out at Iraq after 9/11...it didn't make much sense but the American people wanted something done and the elites were pissed at Sadaam Hussein from previous and used the opportunity for a free shot).
There is a chance that Russia won't be a broken country, that they will just be a changed country, only now they will be more closely aligned with China...
The only thing I would bet on is that they won't be able to subdue Ukraine. |
As you say they would align themselves with other extreme countries like China and North Korea.
The future is very worrying not only for the West, but for most civilised countries.
I think our best hope lies in Putin being overthrown by a more moderate political force within Russia |  |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 08:52 - Apr 7 with 2380 views | 73__73 |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 18:20 - Apr 6 by raynor94 |
Excellent summing up |
If it’s excellent summing up, maybe you can explain why the Russian Ruble is at a higher rate yesterday than it was before the military operations began ? | |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 14:44 - Apr 7 with 2331 views | Scotia |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 08:52 - Apr 7 by 73__73 |
If it’s excellent summing up, maybe you can explain why the Russian Ruble is at a higher rate yesterday than it was before the military operations began ? |
The recovery of the ruble doesn't really mean much. You can have a stable currency and a massive recession. | | | |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 15:48 - Apr 7 with 2311 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 22:48 - Apr 6 by majorraglan |
To be honest I don’t know what’s going to happen. Putin and his people have a really strong grip on the country and even if he departs there’s no guarantee the replacement won’t be from within. All the people at the top have their fingers in the pie and I can’t see things changing. The Kremlin have a really tight grip on the media and by enlarge the people only get the state narrative, there’s going to have to be a massive change for that the break. In China, the State has an even bigger grip of the media.
I am not convinced some European countries will treat Putin like a pariah because they’ll put their own interests first, Hungary being one. Reading different media streams over the last few days and I was struck by the allegations that Orban is trying to control the media , etc, pack the Courts and Judges with his people.
For democracy to flourish there needs to be a healthy independent press.
What has to be avoided is a post WW1 scenario where Germany went in to a huge depression and ultimately led to Hitler coming to power. |
"I was struck by the allegations that Orban is trying to control the media , etc, pack the Courts and Judges with his people"
Don't you mean Biden? | | | |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 16:09 - Apr 7 with 2303 views | Ajack_Kerouac |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 15:48 - Apr 7 by A_Fans_Dad |
"I was struck by the allegations that Orban is trying to control the media , etc, pack the Courts and Judges with his people"
Don't you mean Biden? |
These people change the rules as they go depending on who they are talking about.
They have no principles.
They are lost...they won't wake up to this fact until disaster happens. | |
| "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid" - "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it" |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 16:30 - Apr 7 with 2289 views | majorraglan |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 15:48 - Apr 7 by A_Fans_Dad |
"I was struck by the allegations that Orban is trying to control the media , etc, pack the Courts and Judges with his people"
Don't you mean Biden? |
No, I mean Orban. Check it out for yourself. | | | |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 18:04 - Apr 7 with 2265 views | johnlangy |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 18:40 - Apr 6 by 73__73 |
You talk about Russian lies, what about the lies from the west.
I don’t think you understand the Russian mentality.
As former Russian PM Medvedev said recently the more you punish Russia with sanctions etc, the more the people of Russia come together.
So if you are expecting Russia to somehow collapse, you may have a very long wait. |
Actually i'm not that naive that I don't know that other countries tell lies as well, even the UK which we all know is a shining light of honesty in the world. And you're right, I don't understand the Russian mentality.
Probably the general message I was trying to put across is that what's happening at the moment is so different from what Russia has gone through in the past. The 'us against the rest of the world' mindset' is going to take a bit of a battering when they understand, as they must eventually, that it is actually a war. And it's a war against what you might say is their own people.
I'm minded of a story about a Ukrainian woman who phoned her Russian grandmother and told her what was happening. The grandmother just simply didn't believe her. She said it's all propaganda. Even though this was her granddaughter.
So when in years to come Russians visit their Ukrainian relations and they ask where is Sergei/Irina or whoever and they are shown their graves will they still believe it's all the fault of the West ? When 40 million Ukrainians tell them what happened are they simply going to deny it ?
There has to come a point when they realise what the Russian government has done in their name. | | | |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 18:10 - Apr 7 with 2259 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 22:48 - Apr 6 by majorraglan |
To be honest I don’t know what’s going to happen. Putin and his people have a really strong grip on the country and even if he departs there’s no guarantee the replacement won’t be from within. All the people at the top have their fingers in the pie and I can’t see things changing. The Kremlin have a really tight grip on the media and by enlarge the people only get the state narrative, there’s going to have to be a massive change for that the break. In China, the State has an even bigger grip of the media.
I am not convinced some European countries will treat Putin like a pariah because they’ll put their own interests first, Hungary being one. Reading different media streams over the last few days and I was struck by the allegations that Orban is trying to control the media , etc, pack the Courts and Judges with his people.
For democracy to flourish there needs to be a healthy independent press.
What has to be avoided is a post WW1 scenario where Germany went in to a huge depression and ultimately led to Hitler coming to power. |
The WW1 lesson from history is one worth remembering. I'm sure there are others. |  |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 19:37 - Apr 7 with 2225 views | Kilkennyjack |
The internet will create generational change in Russia.
Putin has a cold war background.
His actions in Ukraine make him a war criminal.
The times they are achangin’ ….. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 21:15 - Apr 7 with 2199 views | pikeypaul |
Or they sell the oil and gas to the Chinese and Indians who are more than happy to buy it.
The rouble is already back to where it was pre war. |  |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 21:24 - Apr 7 with 2192 views | 73__73 |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 21:15 - Apr 7 by pikeypaul |
Or they sell the oil and gas to the Chinese and Indians who are more than happy to buy it.
The rouble is already back to where it was pre war. |
You are correct Paul. Russia doesn’t need the west, but the west needs Russian oil, gas and coal. | |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 23:45 - Apr 7 with 2153 views | Brynmill_Jack |
And the USA, invading or intervening in 30 odd countries in the last 50 years with no good reason , killed a million in iraq and is somehow not a pariah state? Also with the uk shamefully assisting Saudi and the UAE in the bombing of civilians in Yemen? You can shove your rant mate where your moral compass has disappeared up |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 09:59 - Apr 8 with 2118 views | johnlangy |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 23:45 - Apr 7 by Brynmill_Jack |
And the USA, invading or intervening in 30 odd countries in the last 50 years with no good reason , killed a million in iraq and is somehow not a pariah state? Also with the uk shamefully assisting Saudi and the UAE in the bombing of civilians in Yemen? You can shove your rant mate where your moral compass has disappeared up |
I imagine you mean my rant Brynmill.
I believe my moral compass is in pretty good order actually. Having a well deserved go at Putin/Russia for the dreadful things they are doing in Ukraine doesn't mean that i'm defending or condoning dreadful things done by other countries in the past. I don't understand why you conflate the two. The current problem is what's happening in Ukraine.
I can't remember what my comments were during the Iraq conflict. But I certainly remember criticizing the Westminster government for their defence of providing arms to the Saudis and UAE which were/are used in Yemen.
My memory may be playing tricks with me but wasn't one of the arguments that if we didn't supply them someone else would ? Also think of all those well paid jobs in the UK.
Shameful. | | | |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 14:43 - Apr 8 with 2080 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 16:30 - Apr 7 by majorraglan |
No, I mean Orban. Check it out for yourself. |
So is Biden, check it out for yourself. | | | |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 15:03 - Apr 8 with 2067 views | 73__73 |
| The End of Russia as we know it ? on 09:59 - Apr 8 by johnlangy |
I imagine you mean my rant Brynmill.
I believe my moral compass is in pretty good order actually. Having a well deserved go at Putin/Russia for the dreadful things they are doing in Ukraine doesn't mean that i'm defending or condoning dreadful things done by other countries in the past. I don't understand why you conflate the two. The current problem is what's happening in Ukraine.
I can't remember what my comments were during the Iraq conflict. But I certainly remember criticizing the Westminster government for their defence of providing arms to the Saudis and UAE which were/are used in Yemen.
My memory may be playing tricks with me but wasn't one of the arguments that if we didn't supply them someone else would ? Also think of all those well paid jobs in the UK.
Shameful. |
Where do you get your information from ? MSM ? If so proceed with extreme caution. | |
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