| Building A New Scotland 13:55 - Oct 17 with 5485 views | SaintNick |
Nicola Sturgeon has unveiled a paper outlining the economic argument for Scotland leaving the UK. Here are some of the key points she raised.
Scotland would continue to use the pound before moving to a new currency "when the time is right" and look to join the European Union
Independence offers an optimistic alternative away from what she called the failing UK economic model
The FM insisted an independent Scotland would have a stronger and fairer economy
It would have a redesigned energy market which would aim to provide secure and reliable low-cost energy
Using remaining oil revenues and borrowing powers to create a £20bn major infrastructure investment created through the Building a New Scotland Fund
Scottish independence would also open the door to Scotland joining the EU
It would free movement of people, without a passport, across the UK and Ireland, with trade borders implemented smoothly
Border arrangements would be required for trade of goods and services across the UK, but this is "not insurmountable"
She explained "proper planning" would be required to get technology in place so as ''not to disrupt trade"
However, the FM said it was "nonsense" to suggest people north of the border would need a passport to travel to England
Im not sure she has a grip on some of the realities here, Scotland would be unlikely to get into the EU, it isn't just a question of putting in an application.
Secondly she seems to want to keep all the benefits of being in the UK, but be independent, Scotland is in trouble with drugs and unemployment already and is heavily subsidised by the UK government encouraging companies to put their offices in Scotland, that would all end quickly and also technically Scotland would not be able to make their unemployment figures look better due to migration of workers South.
I don't know whether it would be a good thing or bad thing for England, I think we would gain more than we would lose, but i'm afraid Nicola Sturgeon only has one aim and that is independence for Scotland whatever the cost |  |
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| Building A New Scotland on 13:59 - Oct 17 with 4025 views | dwayne_dibley |
can respectfully commend the bitch's proposals to the house so the Jocks can feck off back to where Hadrian put them |  |
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| Building A New Scotland on 14:02 - Oct 17 with 4020 views | SaintNick |
| Building A New Scotland on 13:59 - Oct 17 by dwayne_dibley |
can respectfully commend the bitch's proposals to the house so the Jocks can feck off back to where Hadrian put them |
To be honest if they leave it would all but end a two party system in the house of commons, they have 59 seats the conservatives only have 6, it would increase their majority even more if all those 59 seats were to go | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Building A New Scotland on 14:30 - Oct 17 with 3993 views | saint901 |
Breaking the Union is not something I have an issue with.
Paying Scotland etc for decades after they've left the Union is something I have issues with.
The Scots look to the North Sea as a source of revenue. One, England probably has as much North sea coast as Scotland and has no reason to give up claims to that. Two, oil prices are fickle. Much of the North Sea oilfield is marginal in terms of cost of extraction v cost of crude. Building a 20/30 year economy on oil is great if you're Saudi but risky if Scottish.
Further, renewables are big in Scotland but exporting power is difficult technically. Who is going to pay to build/maintain networks which only Scotland benefit from and control the price of?
Finally, the electorate is small and susceptible to being influenced by factions - such as the SNP who started as a protest outfit. England does not need and should not tolerate a hostile northern neighbour. Also, Scotland geographically is important to the USA and the security of Western Europe. Would they allow a potentially hostile faction to control the early warning stattions?
The independence movement is a one trick pony who will go blind the moment they achieve their aim. Scotland cannot be self sustaining without a minimum oil price and share of yield that have not been seen for a decade. They have huge social issues because their young people have limited opportunities. They have areas that are hard to get to and therefore hard for public services to reach.
I'd be happy to see them being given a ten year experimental try at independence - true independence with no support from England - and see what they think in 2034. |  | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 15:36 - Oct 17 with 3932 views | huelinsaint |
They'd be mugs not to go for independence,there are plenty of successful small countries and they wouldn't be lumbered with a Tory government which they haven't voted for since 1955.
They have to forget about keeping the Royal Family as they wanted to in 2014,that was just plain stupid.
I think the European Union would be open to them joining,if only to show us nutters what we're missing.
I wish them all the best | | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 16:21 - Oct 17 with 3890 views | Chesham_Saint |
| Building A New Scotland on 15:36 - Oct 17 by huelinsaint |
They'd be mugs not to go for independence,there are plenty of successful small countries and they wouldn't be lumbered with a Tory government which they haven't voted for since 1955.
They have to forget about keeping the Royal Family as they wanted to in 2014,that was just plain stupid.
I think the European Union would be open to them joining,if only to show us nutters what we're missing.
I wish them all the best |
She’s wrong as:
1. The EU would NOT be be open to them joining due to the intractable Spain/Catalan problem.
2. There are not enough wealth creators there to sustain their economic model.
3. Their higher rates of tax would cause a flood of people and companies to leave the place.
4. The rest of the UK is one of their biggest markets and I for one would never buy a Scottish product again and I know quite a few people who’d do the same.
That, and the fact that their health and education systems run by the SNP for these past many years are crocked - showing just how incompetent they really are.
That said, if the vast majority of Scots wanted it they should have it - but only on terms that suit us as well, not just them. |  |
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| Building A New Scotland on 17:41 - Oct 17 with 3853 views | PatfromPoole |
By moving to the Euro, at a stroke they would notice everything going up in price just because it always does when a new currency comes in and retailers see it as an opportunity.
It's a shame Sturgeon isn't a Westminster MP as it would be quite entertaining to see her get challenged in a more adversarial way than currently.
I have no firm view on this politically, although my admiration for Glasgow Rangers has greatly increased in the last few months. |  |
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| Building A New Scotland on 21:58 - Oct 17 with 3780 views | huelinsaint |
| Building A New Scotland on 16:21 - Oct 17 by Chesham_Saint |
She’s wrong as:
1. The EU would NOT be be open to them joining due to the intractable Spain/Catalan problem.
2. There are not enough wealth creators there to sustain their economic model.
3. Their higher rates of tax would cause a flood of people and companies to leave the place.
4. The rest of the UK is one of their biggest markets and I for one would never buy a Scottish product again and I know quite a few people who’d do the same.
That, and the fact that their health and education systems run by the SNP for these past many years are crocked - showing just how incompetent they really are.
That said, if the vast majority of Scots wanted it they should have it - but only on terms that suit us as well, not just them. |
I feel like I've just read a Daily Mail article on Scottish independence,the Spain Catalunya example is different because the SNP insist that their referendum be agreed with the rest of the UK, therefore being in a different state to Catalunya within Spain because the Spanish constitution refers to the "indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation”
Which is a totally different kettle of fish to an agreed referendum.
I'm sure there's plenty of wealth creators in Scotland as there are in Ireland.
Have you seen their proposed budget for after independence because I don't know what their tax rates will be,they might be like Eire and have competitive tax rates to attract business,I don't know.
Because you and a few mates will stop buying whisky and shortbread,I don't think Scotland will go bankrupt. | | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 23:19 - Oct 17 with 3733 views | franniesTache |
| Building A New Scotland on 21:58 - Oct 17 by huelinsaint |
I feel like I've just read a Daily Mail article on Scottish independence,the Spain Catalunya example is different because the SNP insist that their referendum be agreed with the rest of the UK, therefore being in a different state to Catalunya within Spain because the Spanish constitution refers to the "indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation”
Which is a totally different kettle of fish to an agreed referendum.
I'm sure there's plenty of wealth creators in Scotland as there are in Ireland.
Have you seen their proposed budget for after independence because I don't know what their tax rates will be,they might be like Eire and have competitive tax rates to attract business,I don't know.
Because you and a few mates will stop buying whisky and shortbread,I don't think Scotland will go bankrupt. |
The Spanish government have also said they wouldn't block Scotland joining the EU but they'd have to go through the same application process as everyone else. |  | | |
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| Building A New Scotland on 06:57 - Oct 18 with 3648 views | saint68 |
Let them have their independence..obviously at no cost to the remaining members of the union...
Passport controls at the land borders would create jobs
Trade tariffs .more tax revenues
Would probably trigger another brain drain from north of the border though..some 800000 have left Scotland for England over the last few decades
And they get to join a larger more unanswerable/unchangeable/unelected/unchallengable and ever increasingly fractured political mess ( unless you're either Germany or France)
The futures Bright for wee Jimmy Krankie..she can take on Brussels next | |
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| Building A New Scotland on 18:51 - Oct 18 with 3452 views | Chesham_Saint |
| Building A New Scotland on 21:58 - Oct 17 by huelinsaint |
I feel like I've just read a Daily Mail article on Scottish independence,the Spain Catalunya example is different because the SNP insist that their referendum be agreed with the rest of the UK, therefore being in a different state to Catalunya within Spain because the Spanish constitution refers to the "indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation”
Which is a totally different kettle of fish to an agreed referendum.
I'm sure there's plenty of wealth creators in Scotland as there are in Ireland.
Have you seen their proposed budget for after independence because I don't know what their tax rates will be,they might be like Eire and have competitive tax rates to attract business,I don't know.
Because you and a few mates will stop buying whisky and shortbread,I don't think Scotland will go bankrupt. |
Oh really. Have you seen the size of their public sector? Daily Mail? Fvck off. | |
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| Building A New Scotland on 21:03 - Oct 18 with 3385 views | huelinsaint |
| Building A New Scotland on 18:51 - Oct 18 by Chesham_Saint |
Oh really. Have you seen the size of their public sector? Daily Mail? Fvck off. |
Wind yer neck in Tory boy.
As I said,good luck to them,they haven't got the English forelock tugitis that aflics so many in England | | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 22:23 - Oct 18 with 3325 views | Bazza |
| Building A New Scotland on 21:03 - Oct 18 by huelinsaint |
Wind yer neck in Tory boy.
As I said,good luck to them,they haven't got the English forelock tugitis that aflics so many in England |
No way will Scotland continue to be subsidised by the Uk and there would be a border especially if the eu somehow let the Scots fiddle their entry requirements | | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 22:50 - Oct 18 with 3303 views | cocklebreath |
I like Scotland and most of the Scottish people I’ve met, would be a shame for the union to broken. |  |
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| Building A New Scotland on 23:03 - Oct 18 with 3284 views | grumpy |
| Building A New Scotland on 22:23 - Oct 18 by Bazza |
No way will Scotland continue to be subsidised by the Uk and there would be a border especially if the eu somehow let the Scots fiddle their entry requirements |
The Scots have stood shoulder to shoulder during 2 world wars.We live with Scots all over our land and we theirs.We are stronger together, we need a Union that’s what has put the Great in Britain. It would be a tragedy if we split. |  | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 23:11 - Oct 18 with 3277 views | franniesTache |
| Building A New Scotland on 23:03 - Oct 18 by grumpy |
The Scots have stood shoulder to shoulder during 2 world wars.We live with Scots all over our land and we theirs.We are stronger together, we need a Union that’s what has put the Great in Britain. It would be a tragedy if we split. |
Unions generally make things stronger and better for everyone right? | | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 23:19 - Oct 18 with 3255 views | grumpy |
| Building A New Scotland on 23:11 - Oct 18 by franniesTache |
Unions generally make things stronger and better for everyone right? |
Yes | | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 00:04 - Oct 19 with 3243 views | dirk_doone |
| Building A New Scotland on 23:03 - Oct 18 by grumpy |
The Scots have stood shoulder to shoulder during 2 world wars.We live with Scots all over our land and we theirs.We are stronger together, we need a Union that’s what has put the Great in Britain. It would be a tragedy if we split. |
Sadly, our right wing extremist English nationalists are a destructive lot who don't understand the voice of reason, and we'll all have to suffer the consequences of their Brexit vanity project: the breakup of our country, a weak currency and relative poverty compared to the EU countries.
Don't worry about the Scots. They will rejoin the EU and do very well for themselves. They have already shown they have a much more sensible government in Edinburgh with such policies as free tertiary education, resulting in enough doctors, dentists, scientists etc. Meanwhile in England we have to advertise for ours in Nigeria and Pakistan because young English people can no longer afford the enormous costs involved in qualifying as a doctor or dentist in this country. An 85-year-old Nigerian doctor stabbing a patient through the heart and killing him in an NHS hospital because he hadn't been properly trained how to do a biopsy sums up how bad things have become.
I recently had a conversation with a dentist who qualified in the free education era, whose job now is dealing with all of the malpractice cases against the young dentists we are now having to bring in from Third World countries because the competent European dentists have nearly all left because of Brexit which means they can now make more money in their own countries. One of the best budget statements our Chancellor could have made was the return of free education for doctors and dentists. It won't happen in England though because most Tory members use private medicine. However, it's already happened in Scotland. [Post edited 19 Oct 2022 0:32]
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| Building A New Scotland on 09:32 - Oct 19 with 3105 views | saint901 |
Tempting as it is to view the Scots wanting "freedom" from an English perspective, that is bound to introduce a bias because in many ways them leaving the Union will make England and Wales "poorer".
Whilst I would take issue with the isolated examples mentioned by Mr Doone and point to a number of Scottish "projects" that exist in English money (free education being one of them) , you also have to look at what the Scots want.
The Scots have some world class medical and law schools. Almost all the graduates leave Scotland to practice in England or Europe. Oil I've mentioned before as being marginal in terms of cost of extraction vs cost per barrel. Renewables have a number of technical problems to solve.
More importantly the SNP has shown that they are quite capable of biting the hand that feeds them but has never had to run a small country in a fiercely competitive market place where interest costs are rising.
Markets are sensitive and the UK borrowing rate on its headline 10 year bond is significantly higher than it was before the BlunderTruss took (poor) aim. Do you think Scotland would - on its own - have borrowing costs that would be remotely affordable.
The recent SNP "explainer" document is - depending on your view - silent on the expected rate or at worst has built in the UK borrowing rate. Nobody I've spoken to in the market says that's remotely likely.
Put a realistic rate into the model (say UK plus 150bps) and nothing works. tax rates would increase, benefits and public services slashed and barring an oil proce above $150 a barrel, Scotland might last 5 years.
Tempting as it is to say "go ahead", in the real world England would not want a bankrupt and vulnerable nation on it borders and would be obliged to step in.
I for one would oppose bailing out nasty Nicola. | | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 09:47 - Oct 19 with 3096 views | kernow |
If the Scots were granted another referendum they would most probably vote to secede from the Union.
As evidenced by Brexit, the emotive, nationalistic arguments trump the economic and security ones.
I struggle to see how England would gain from it. | | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 10:20 - Oct 19 with 3080 views | grumpy |
| Building A New Scotland on 00:04 - Oct 19 by dirk_doone |
Sadly, our right wing extremist English nationalists are a destructive lot who don't understand the voice of reason, and we'll all have to suffer the consequences of their Brexit vanity project: the breakup of our country, a weak currency and relative poverty compared to the EU countries.
Don't worry about the Scots. They will rejoin the EU and do very well for themselves. They have already shown they have a much more sensible government in Edinburgh with such policies as free tertiary education, resulting in enough doctors, dentists, scientists etc. Meanwhile in England we have to advertise for ours in Nigeria and Pakistan because young English people can no longer afford the enormous costs involved in qualifying as a doctor or dentist in this country. An 85-year-old Nigerian doctor stabbing a patient through the heart and killing him in an NHS hospital because he hadn't been properly trained how to do a biopsy sums up how bad things have become.
I recently had a conversation with a dentist who qualified in the free education era, whose job now is dealing with all of the malpractice cases against the young dentists we are now having to bring in from Third World countries because the competent European dentists have nearly all left because of Brexit which means they can now make more money in their own countries. One of the best budget statements our Chancellor could have made was the return of free education for doctors and dentists. It won't happen in England though because most Tory members use private medicine. However, it's already happened in Scotland. [Post edited 19 Oct 2022 0:32]
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I listened on a report on the radio on Doctors being hired from Nigeria, a country that cannot afford to lose them, in large numbers.
Is this how we are going to staff our 40 new hospitals?
Going back to the Scotland question,the way the Tories are running the country you can hardly blame them for wanting to leave the Union.
The arrogance of Brexit and the Tories will lead to the break up of the Union and a little England. [Post edited 19 Oct 2022 10:23]
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| Building A New Scotland on 10:59 - Oct 19 with 3067 views | dirk_doone |
| Building A New Scotland on 10:20 - Oct 19 by grumpy |
I listened on a report on the radio on Doctors being hired from Nigeria, a country that cannot afford to lose them, in large numbers.
Is this how we are going to staff our 40 new hospitals?
Going back to the Scotland question,the way the Tories are running the country you can hardly blame them for wanting to leave the Union.
The arrogance of Brexit and the Tories will lead to the break up of the Union and a little England. [Post edited 19 Oct 2022 10:23]
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Truss has said she wants to increase immigration. Part of the hidden agenda of Brexit was to replace workers from the EU with cheaper ones from Africa and Asia.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/24/liz-truss-plans-to-loosen-immigr [Post edited 19 Oct 2022 11:00]
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| Building A New Scotland on 11:34 - Oct 19 with 3042 views | dwayne_dibley |
| Building A New Scotland on 09:32 - Oct 19 by saint901 |
Tempting as it is to view the Scots wanting "freedom" from an English perspective, that is bound to introduce a bias because in many ways them leaving the Union will make England and Wales "poorer".
Whilst I would take issue with the isolated examples mentioned by Mr Doone and point to a number of Scottish "projects" that exist in English money (free education being one of them) , you also have to look at what the Scots want.
The Scots have some world class medical and law schools. Almost all the graduates leave Scotland to practice in England or Europe. Oil I've mentioned before as being marginal in terms of cost of extraction vs cost per barrel. Renewables have a number of technical problems to solve.
More importantly the SNP has shown that they are quite capable of biting the hand that feeds them but has never had to run a small country in a fiercely competitive market place where interest costs are rising.
Markets are sensitive and the UK borrowing rate on its headline 10 year bond is significantly higher than it was before the BlunderTruss took (poor) aim. Do you think Scotland would - on its own - have borrowing costs that would be remotely affordable.
The recent SNP "explainer" document is - depending on your view - silent on the expected rate or at worst has built in the UK borrowing rate. Nobody I've spoken to in the market says that's remotely likely.
Put a realistic rate into the model (say UK plus 150bps) and nothing works. tax rates would increase, benefits and public services slashed and barring an oil proce above $150 a barrel, Scotland might last 5 years.
Tempting as it is to say "go ahead", in the real world England would not want a bankrupt and vulnerable nation on it borders and would be obliged to step in.
I for one would oppose bailing out nasty Nicola. |
"Tempting as it is to say "go ahead", in the real world England would not want a bankrupt and vulnerable nation on it borders and would be obliged to step in. "
Is that not what Putin said? | |
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| Building A New Scotland on 11:44 - Oct 19 with 3040 views | saint68 |
Quite interesting that the remainers seem to wish Bonnie Scotland well in its desire for independence from a nasty foreign controlling body that doesn't listen to them ..the irony is simply astonishing. | |
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| Building A New Scotland on 12:07 - Oct 19 with 3025 views | kernow |
Quite interesting that the expat, hard brexiters seem to wish Merrie England well in its desire for independence from a nasty foreign controlling body that doesn't listen to them ..the irony is simply astonishing. | | | |
| Building A New Scotland on 12:54 - Oct 19 with 2985 views | grumpy |
| Building A New Scotland on 11:44 - Oct 19 by saint68 |
Quite interesting that the remainers seem to wish Bonnie Scotland well in its desire for independence from a nasty foreign controlling body that doesn't listen to them ..the irony is simply astonishing. |
I don't want to see Scotland independent from the Union and I don't think the majority of Scots do either,but the way this Tory government are carrying on there will be a majority.
What I find 'astonishing'is people that voted Brexit still think they were right. | | | |
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