| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 22:47 - Apr 10 with 2477 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 20:30 - Apr 10 by RAFCBLUE |
Completely forgotten we had Beech in there. That is how bad a season it was.
It's an interesting point you make about BBM being in his third season as a manager. I make it 102 games including today.
5 wins in the last 31 is woeful, for any manager in all competitions since the start of November.
BBM had Hill's squad for the first batch of games as manager and the "new manager" effect.
You'll have the data I am sure but his win percentage must be one of lowest, if not the lowest of all time? |
Discounting spells in caretaker charge because it makes my life easier...
LEAGUE (TOP 5)
48.5% Jack Peart
45.3% Len Richley
43.5% Tom Wilson
41.7% Keith Hill
40% John Hollins
LEAGUE (BOTTOM 5)
13.6% Mike Ferguson
19.0% Steve Eyre
19.6% Walter Joyce
19.8% Ernest Nixon
22.9% Jimmy Greenhoff
[26.3% BBM]
ALL COMPETITIONS (TOP 5)
47.9% Jack Peart
43.5% Tom Wilson
42.6% Len Richley
41.2% Keith Hill
39.2% Terry Dolan
ALL COMPETITIONS (BOTTOM 5)
12.9% Mike Ferguson
19.5% Ernest Nixon
20.4% Walter Joyce
22.2% Steve Eyre
23.5% Peter Madden
[28.6% BBM] |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 22:53 - Apr 10 with 2465 views | BillyRudd |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 20:07 - Apr 10 by todmordendale |
Change of tactics might help to stay up.
Route 1, hoof it into the penalty area. Two big lads in the middle. 50-50 every time.
Better that all that possession in your own box.
No time for purist theory |
Don,t disagree, but I think you might have a long wait. In Murphys post match interview today, he stated we were to "direct".
Also going off the available evidence, even with a packed penalty area we haven,t found a Dale bonce with Shaughnessys throw ins since he arrived at the club so I doubt the 50-50 odds mores the pity.
I imagine it goes well in training though along with the corner practise. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 23:06 - Apr 10 with 2412 views | EllDale |
It makes you wonder if the signing of Shaughnessy was driven by analytic “moneyball” evidence that he had this long throw and that BBM was looking for someone with this weapon in his armoury.
Or whether or not he was signed because he was available and Irish and casually remarked on his first day at training that he possessed a long throw in passing and it was immediately latched upon. | | | |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 23:08 - Apr 10 with 2407 views | RippDale |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 22:47 - Apr 10 by TVOS1907 |
Discounting spells in caretaker charge because it makes my life easier...
LEAGUE (TOP 5)
48.5% Jack Peart
45.3% Len Richley
43.5% Tom Wilson
41.7% Keith Hill
40% John Hollins
LEAGUE (BOTTOM 5)
13.6% Mike Ferguson
19.0% Steve Eyre
19.6% Walter Joyce
19.8% Ernest Nixon
22.9% Jimmy Greenhoff
[26.3% BBM]
ALL COMPETITIONS (TOP 5)
47.9% Jack Peart
43.5% Tom Wilson
42.6% Len Richley
41.2% Keith Hill
39.2% Terry Dolan
ALL COMPETITIONS (BOTTOM 5)
12.9% Mike Ferguson
19.5% Ernest Nixon
20.4% Walter Joyce
22.2% Steve Eyre
23.5% Peter Madden
[28.6% BBM] |
Great work TVOS, so good to be able to compare the stats of the managers in my years of supporting.
If only BBM could be top of the mini league we are in at the moment | | | |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 07:56 - Apr 11 with 2167 views | Nigeriamark |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 22:47 - Apr 10 by TVOS1907 |
Discounting spells in caretaker charge because it makes my life easier...
LEAGUE (TOP 5)
48.5% Jack Peart
45.3% Len Richley
43.5% Tom Wilson
41.7% Keith Hill
40% John Hollins
LEAGUE (BOTTOM 5)
13.6% Mike Ferguson
19.0% Steve Eyre
19.6% Walter Joyce
19.8% Ernest Nixon
22.9% Jimmy Greenhoff
[26.3% BBM]
ALL COMPETITIONS (TOP 5)
47.9% Jack Peart
43.5% Tom Wilson
42.6% Len Richley
41.2% Keith Hill
39.2% Terry Dolan
ALL COMPETITIONS (BOTTOM 5)
12.9% Mike Ferguson
19.5% Ernest Nixon
20.4% Walter Joyce
22.2% Steve Eyre
23.5% Peter Madden
[28.6% BBM] |
Interesting. Hadn't realised Terry Dolan was so high & would have guessed, incorrectly, that Parkin would have been ahead of him. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 08:49 - Apr 11 with 2100 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 19:51 - Apr 10 by RAFCBLUE |
The conversation of the parallels between the 2011/12 relegation and this one came up in a group of us earlier this week.
2011/12 P46, W8, D14, L24 Scored 47 Conceded 81 - Points 38
2020/21 (so far) P39 W7, D12, L 20 Scored 47 Conceded 70 - Points 33.
The 2011/12 season was inevitably the loss of Hill and Flitcroft to Barnsley in June 2011 and then the shambles of the start of a season that saw Chris O'Grady sold to Sheffield Wednesday after we had played them on the opening day.
Eyre was useless and out of his depth and rightly sacked in December 2011. John Coleman came in and we were better but the players were not good enough for League 1 and the damage was done.
Eyre was a shambles with players, formations and tactics - no consistency - wins (from memory) away at bury and QPR yet hammered by Stevenage and Hartlepool at home - one of the worst Dale performances in memory.
Financially, the coffers were full. Money from Hill, Flitcroft and O'Grady and the cup run saw us make a good profit. That profit saw us through the next two season and back to League 1.
This season:
We sacked Hill in February 2019 so knowingly went into 2020/21 with BBM, to whom we have given a new contract. We did not renew the contract of our long term captain in Ian Henderson who has a different memory of a contract negotiation to the club's CEO.
We have played pretty much a standard set of players, similar formations, very set and predictable tactics. The players are collectively not good enough.
We will be relegated again but the coffers are empty. The pandemic and the cost of sacking Hill and Beech are the main reasons though the club won't admit the latter.
It will be hard to stabilise in League 2 with all the off the field problems, an inexperienced manager and a squad that will break up at the end of June. We have a number of players out of contract and no money or plan to replace them. [Post edited 10 Apr 2021 20:14]
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All good points. My point was more that the club has struggled, both with and without Dunphy, to find somebody who can replicate anything like the success delivered by Hill save for the last 18 months or so of his tenure. Dunphy rightly deserves barrel loads of praise for finding and bringing Hill back and for his stewardship of the club during that time, but he also suffered massively without Hill. Eyre and Coleman got shed loads of criticism and there was similar vocal concern at the time as to the direction the club was going in. In the end, thankfully Hill was available again. If Dunphy does come back, and I have absolutely no issue with that, the Hill option is very unlikely to be available. We may get a very different Dunphy is all I’m saying.
To be fair to the current ‘regime’ they did, at least for a while, find someone who delivered some tangible success that wasn’t Keith Hill. Unfortunately, it didn’t last long enough. [Post edited 11 Apr 2021 9:10]
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 09:12 - Apr 11 with 2052 views | NorthernDale |
We have 7 games for BBM to work is magic and keep us hope, it is possible with 4 wins and 3 draws, I would not put money on it, if i am honest. Yesterday was a good opportunity to get 3 points due to the indifferent form of Fleetwood, but until the last few minutes we played like we were not interested, we were far too casual in how we approached the game.
Now after listening BBM comments on Radio Bolton, when he stated "It doesn't worry me", explains the lack of intensity in the Dales performance, if the manager is not that worried then why should the players? BBM may not be worried, but I am worried, if not resigned to our fate this season.
BBM may surprise me yet, but with his attitude after yesterdays game, I doubt it. | | | |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 11:11 - Apr 11 with 1914 views | Nafelad |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 09:12 - Apr 11 by NorthernDale |
We have 7 games for BBM to work is magic and keep us hope, it is possible with 4 wins and 3 draws, I would not put money on it, if i am honest. Yesterday was a good opportunity to get 3 points due to the indifferent form of Fleetwood, but until the last few minutes we played like we were not interested, we were far too casual in how we approached the game.
Now after listening BBM comments on Radio Bolton, when he stated "It doesn't worry me", explains the lack of intensity in the Dales performance, if the manager is not that worried then why should the players? BBM may not be worried, but I am worried, if not resigned to our fate this season.
BBM may surprise me yet, but with his attitude after yesterdays game, I doubt it. |
I should imagine he's not worried because he can look forward to managing his team in League 2 next season, and travelling to new places for matches. Other than that, his job won't have changed much. |  |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 11:30 - Apr 11 with 1881 views | Quigley_dale |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 18:23 - Apr 10 by James1980 |
We don't need any money then? |
Have a day off! [Post edited 11 Apr 2021 11:41]
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 14:25 - Apr 11 with 1715 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 23:06 - Apr 10 by EllDale |
It makes you wonder if the signing of Shaughnessy was driven by analytic “moneyball” evidence that he had this long throw and that BBM was looking for someone with this weapon in his armoury.
Or whether or not he was signed because he was available and Irish and casually remarked on his first day at training that he possessed a long throw in passing and it was immediately latched upon. |
"immediately latched upon"........unlike his throw-ins? | | | |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 17:11 - Apr 11 with 1557 views | James1980 |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 11:30 - Apr 11 by Quigley_dale |
Have a day off! [Post edited 11 Apr 2021 11:41]
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I stand by the gist of what I said. We need more money.
If we had more we could have held onto players we have sold to balance the books a little longer. Perhaps we could have offered the likes of NML and Camps contract extensions. We probably would have signed a left back. Maybe we wouldn't have gone for the 'cheap option' when signing Hill's permanent replacement. We could afford to sign players who spend more time on pitch than on the treatment table. | |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 17:17 - Apr 11 with 1538 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 17:11 - Apr 11 by James1980 |
I stand by the gist of what I said. We need more money.
If we had more we could have held onto players we have sold to balance the books a little longer. Perhaps we could have offered the likes of NML and Camps contract extensions. We probably would have signed a left back. Maybe we wouldn't have gone for the 'cheap option' when signing Hill's permanent replacement. We could afford to sign players who spend more time on pitch than on the treatment table. |
NML signed for Cardiff City. Do you honestly think he was ever going to stay with us when a Championship club came calling, one that went on to win promotion?
Camps was never going to re-sign, like Henderson. This has been established several times. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 17:31 - Apr 11 with 1496 views | Nigeriamark |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 09:12 - Apr 11 by NorthernDale |
We have 7 games for BBM to work is magic and keep us hope, it is possible with 4 wins and 3 draws, I would not put money on it, if i am honest. Yesterday was a good opportunity to get 3 points due to the indifferent form of Fleetwood, but until the last few minutes we played like we were not interested, we were far too casual in how we approached the game.
Now after listening BBM comments on Radio Bolton, when he stated "It doesn't worry me", explains the lack of intensity in the Dales performance, if the manager is not that worried then why should the players? BBM may not be worried, but I am worried, if not resigned to our fate this season.
BBM may surprise me yet, but with his attitude after yesterdays game, I doubt it. |
In another thread I said a double win from Swindon & Accie will keep us in the game so I'd better not write them off for another week !! However both are at home so with 1 home win all season it really is last chance saloon. I'm not even sure 4 points will be enough. 2 wins though & we would at least have some momentum. I'm currently sat at 85% likelihood of relegation but really entirely based on the next 2 games | | | |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 18:17 - Apr 11 with 1417 views | James1980 |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 17:17 - Apr 11 by TVOS1907 |
NML signed for Cardiff City. Do you honestly think he was ever going to stay with us when a Championship club came calling, one that went on to win promotion?
Camps was never going to re-sign, like Henderson. This has been established several times. |
Regarding NML with more money he might have signed a longer contract to begin with and we might have got a transfer fee for selling him. Yes I know he might not have signed on for any longer.
Perhaps Calum and Ian would have considered signing contract extensions 6-12 months prior to the ones they had if they were offered a more lucrative deal and the club were showing a greater sense of ambition. | |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 18:33 - Apr 11 with 1375 views | 49thseason |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 17:11 - Apr 11 by James1980 |
I stand by the gist of what I said. We need more money.
If we had more we could have held onto players we have sold to balance the books a little longer. Perhaps we could have offered the likes of NML and Camps contract extensions. We probably would have signed a left back. Maybe we wouldn't have gone for the 'cheap option' when signing Hill's permanent replacement. We could afford to sign players who spend more time on pitch than on the treatment table. |
You are correct James we need more money. We are 2000 tickets per home game below the L1 average with 5000 empty seats, thats the better part of £1m in gate money that most other clubs are spending on players each season. The club's marketing has been abysmal for decades, locals laugh at the idea of supporting Rochdale via the turnstiles which means developing the off-field income streams instead. Enter Mr Bottomley and his Lottery destruction efforts.... We need a new brand-image development plan from top to bottom of the club. We need to become the go-to club for when United and City are away, matchday excitement, fantastic occasional fan participation, and to become a brand that businesses, fans and non-fans want to engage with. Not the same old same old currently on offer as much as the die-hards enjoy its familiarity. Its not about faffing with the price of a coach to Wembley as much as bussing-in 100s of kids from schools and giving them an unforgettable experience and I don' t mean a toffee from a fat bloke in a dragon suit! |  | | |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 18:34 - Apr 11 with 1374 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 18:17 - Apr 11 by James1980 |
Regarding NML with more money he might have signed a longer contract to begin with and we might have got a transfer fee for selling him. Yes I know he might not have signed on for any longer.
Perhaps Calum and Ian would have considered signing contract extensions 6-12 months prior to the ones they had if they were offered a more lucrative deal and the club were showing a greater sense of ambition. |
James, sadly, i think you may have chosen to support the wrong club |  |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 19:13 - Apr 11 with 1280 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 18:17 - Apr 11 by James1980 |
Regarding NML with more money he might have signed a longer contract to begin with and we might have got a transfer fee for selling him. Yes I know he might not have signed on for any longer.
Perhaps Calum and Ian would have considered signing contract extensions 6-12 months prior to the ones they had if they were offered a more lucrative deal and the club were showing a greater sense of ambition. |
"Callum and Ian"????
Regardless of what we as fans think, footballers will always look after Number One; they don't support the club like we do and don't have the same attachment, whatever they profess.
At the end of the day, it's their job and they will take the best deals for themselves and their families. If they are good players - which the aforementioned are - they will always leave themselves in a position where they can play at a higher level or better their finances by not committing themselves to a club like ourselves for longer than they feel is necessary.
Also, we won't commit ourselves to offering such players longer and more lucrative contracts, as it would make zero financial sense for the club's future.
Henderson was already the best paid player in the history of the club, if everything is to be believed (and I see no reason not to), but when Salford came calling, there was no way he was going to re-sign for us. The same goes for Fleetwood and Camps.
Remember what I posted a while ago about the most recent Salford documentary? Gary Neville, in the January 2020 transfer window, was dealing with a potential recruit over the phone and was willing to pay him astronomical sums for the level Salford played at.
That could have been Henderson or someone else, but given Henderson's standing in the game and career record, chances are he would be getting even more from them than this player. We simply can't compete with that level of spending.
Like D_Alien says, you've probably chosen the wrong club to support. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 19:44 - Apr 11 with 1230 views | James1980 |
That hurts guys  I know my small contribution through the turnstiles pales into insignificance when adding up what the old guard of the fan base put in. But I've been making my 'contribution' including a sizeable donation to Cloughie's statue fund which I really wanted to keep quiet about but feel I have been forced to mention , to prove my commitment as a supporter.
Is a desire for the club one supports to have a bit more money so they can have a little more ambition such a terrible thing? | |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 19:58 - Apr 11 with 1191 views | 49thseason |
Actually, in many respects, he is exactly the sort of fan we could do with another 5,000 of. He turns up at games when he can, is interested to know more about the club and asks the,sort of questions anyone new to Rochdale might ask. OK there is a naivity that some find a bit of a nuisance but how else does he become one of all us saddo's who watch dross for fun? The fact that we often treat James as some sort of small child says more about us than him. Maybe we are not as welcoming as we think? Perhaps we would have more bums on our empty seats if we as a club we tried to be more welcoming to visitors and told them more about the club and what to expect? Do you have cash turnstiles? How can you buy a ticket? Where can I park? Can I get something to eat? Do I have to be some sort of member to go in the club bar? Will my kids be able to see whats going on ? We take lots for granted, we dont really know what puts people off coming to matches .... except the crappy football of course. | | | |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 19:59 - Apr 11 with 1190 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 19:44 - Apr 11 by James1980 |
That hurts guys I know my small contribution through the turnstiles pales into insignificance when adding up what the old guard of the fan base put in. But I've been making my 'contribution' including a sizeable donation to Cloughie's statue fund which I really wanted to keep quiet about but feel I have been forced to mention , to prove my commitment as a supporter.
Is a desire for the club one supports to have a bit more money so they can have a little more ambition such a terrible thing? |
You've really missed the point, James.
I'm sure the club would love to have more money - wouldn't we all - but with it still comes the fact that players will look after Number One and find other clubs with even more! | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 20:02 - Apr 11 with 1179 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 19:44 - Apr 11 by James1980 |
That hurts guys I know my small contribution through the turnstiles pales into insignificance when adding up what the old guard of the fan base put in. But I've been making my 'contribution' including a sizeable donation to Cloughie's statue fund which I really wanted to keep quiet about but feel I have been forced to mention , to prove my commitment as a supporter.
Is a desire for the club one supports to have a bit more money so they can have a little more ambition such a terrible thing? |
Might be wrong but don’t think it was that you specifically chose the wrong club to support, more that as a club, we accept there comes a time when our better players move on. That might be a transfer fee or their contracts ending and looking elsewhere - we need only remember that two of our best players in the first Hill promotion, Dagnall and TK, left and that was to further their careers. The current situation or even future ones where someone might come in with a pile of cash probably won’t ever change that, nor would we really want it to. Look at when we saw a rise in the wage budget in the past for example, it guarantees little.
Stick to what Rochdale have traditionally done best and look to make sensible improvements. We challenged for the playoffs in L1 doing that, don’t let anyone argue otherwise. Anything else is hot air. |  |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 20:10 - Apr 11 with 1142 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 19:58 - Apr 11 by 49thseason |
Actually, in many respects, he is exactly the sort of fan we could do with another 5,000 of. He turns up at games when he can, is interested to know more about the club and asks the,sort of questions anyone new to Rochdale might ask. OK there is a naivity that some find a bit of a nuisance but how else does he become one of all us saddo's who watch dross for fun? The fact that we often treat James as some sort of small child says more about us than him. Maybe we are not as welcoming as we think? Perhaps we would have more bums on our empty seats if we as a club we tried to be more welcoming to visitors and told them more about the club and what to expect? Do you have cash turnstiles? How can you buy a ticket? Where can I park? Can I get something to eat? Do I have to be some sort of member to go in the club bar? Will my kids be able to see whats going on ? We take lots for granted, we dont really know what puts people off coming to matches .... except the crappy football of course. |
I agree and having met James in person at the likes of AFC Wimbledon, Charlton, Southend, etc, his credentials and commitment cannot be questioned.
But, as 442 has more eloquently posted, saying he has chosen the wrong club to support has a different meaning to saying we don't need fans like him! | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 22:42 - Apr 11 with 905 views | Sandyman |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 20:28 - Apr 11 by D_Alien |
My post wasn't intended as a slight in any way, let me make that clear
In fact, rather the opposite. Every single person who pays their money at the turnstile is to be welcomed. It's not a matter of your cash input. I simply fear for your well-being. Your over-theorising and endless "what ifs" suggest an over-reliance on the Dale as an outlet; you've suggested as much yourself. If you genuinely feel you can cope with things going wrong - perhaps very badly wrong - without it affecting you too much* then you'll be okay. But supporting Dale isn't like supporting virtually any other club, although each has its own unique issues. Ours was being the perennial underdogs of the FL, up until KH came along in 2006/7. That era is now well and truly gone, and the chances are we'll be struggling badly for some time. Be prepared to take it on the chin, which the compulsive "what ifs" suggest you might be struggling with
* We're all affected by our current situation, to a greater or lesser degree. Some may never return to the fold after the Covid restrictions, even if fit to do so
[Post edited 11 Apr 2021 20:34]
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Might I add Steve Parkin first time round gave the club the huge kick up the jacksy it needed.
If only he hadn't gone to Barnsley, a mistake he's since admitted. Ah well.
James - will buy you a pint one day, when Chris Dunphy takes over. Look forward to it! |  | | |
| Match Thread: Fleetwood vs Rochdale on 22:59 - Apr 11 with 855 views | James1980 |
Thank you for the kind words of advice. I need to remember I chose Rochdale based on their league position in the early 90s | |
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