| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm 18:54 - Jun 1 with 56295 views | RAFCBLUE |
A beautiful evening this evening at Spotland for one of the most eagerly anticipated fixtures of the season.
Team news when we have it, but the Board are expected to play a flat back 5.
Zoom is filling up nicely with many in attendance. |  |
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| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:05 - Jun 2 with 3829 views | BillyRudd |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 10:21 - Jun 2 by 100notout |
We were told that this and the whole corporate governance was subject to a full internal “investigation “ led by Andrew Kelly (No independence there then!) and not surprisingly everyone was cleared of any wrongdoing - yeah right. Makes you wonder if they’ve all got some dirt they could dish out. Trevor Butterworth was bang oN the money when he said all their names should have been on the list of resolutions. I really felt sorry for Tony pockney last night. I think he’s a good guy but I feel last night some of his loyalty and discretion was misplaced. He had a Very difficult job last night in difficult circumstances - you could see he knew the answers to many questions but rather than just saying them he referred to others to establish how much he could say. It’ll all come out in the wash though ....... eventually |
I bow to your first hand knowledge 100notout but as someone just reading this thread I fail to understand the empathy with TP?
If someone states 10 to 15% and the true figure is 30% I have another word for what you term "loyalty and discretion"!
Am happy to be told what I am missing but for ALL the remaining Directors this now falls into the category of "What did you know and when did you know it"?
Until such a time, then for me they are all tainted by association.
Up the Dale |  | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:09 - Jun 2 with 3762 views | EllDale |
There does seem to be definite fixation with a multimillion pound training venue.
I’ve visited the Doncaster site at Cantley Park through work and also the facilities that Crewe Alex enjoy.
I’m pretty sure that Donny’s set-up was a mainly funded by the largesse of one man as was the one at Fleetwood. Not sure how Crewe financed theirs. | | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:21 - Jun 2 with 3660 views | D_Alien |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 09:27 - Jun 2 by DaleiLama |
Agreed. Furthermore, if this was re-opened, I'm sure a lot more would take advantage (including me). Which would also allow some more money to come into the club. |
I've already mentioned to someone close to the club (not the old regime) that i'd be interested in acquiring shares too (had some at the last open issue around 10 years ago but then sold them again)
I've also re-joined the Dale Trust
This has restored my faith in the leadership at Dale and the Trust going forward, with much work still to do of course but as others have said, there's a renewed sense of unity among fans. Long may we prosper with a club to be proud of, at whatever level we're able to achieve |  |
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| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:22 - Jun 2 with 3654 views | Cedar_Room |
well done to the Trust for pushing through all this - I've never been to sure the case against Bottomley had been made but the events from this meeting alone convince me he's a rotten presence at the club.
How do we go about now clarifying exactly who the executive is who got the pay rise and what the exact percentage was??
Given Bottomley is the only director receiving a salary I can't see who else it might be but how de we find out for sure?
The fact this was done during a season where the club received virtually no income and as we were told repeatedly had the lowest player budget in L1 make the decision utterly outrageous and unjustifiable and demonstrates precisely how badly the club is currently being run and how poor the decision making is from whoever sanctioned this. Disgraceful. |  | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:27 - Jun 2 with 3600 views | LeeBrookfield |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 19:00 - Jun 1 by D_Alien |
Cometh the hour, cometh the men |
We should all listen to The Price of football podcast tomorrow, we are first on the list.
Worryingly enough they talk about Matt Southall and Glenn Thomas as investors.
Thomas was at the head of Bury's demise with Stewart Day and the guy who brought in Steve Dale. Highly recommend people google him.
As for Matt Southall 'Football agent'? You may remember put an expensive penthouse and range rover on Charltons costs while getting his collar felt and a £21,000 fine for doing illegal things with the clubs status [see link below]
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53449265
If these are the two Bottomley or anyone else is touting as new investors, Lord help me. | | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:31 - Jun 2 with 3563 views | DaleiLama |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:21 - Jun 2 by D_Alien |
I've already mentioned to someone close to the club (not the old regime) that i'd be interested in acquiring shares too (had some at the last open issue around 10 years ago but then sold them again)
I've also re-joined the Dale Trust
This has restored my faith in the leadership at Dale and the Trust going forward, with much work still to do of course but as others have said, there's a renewed sense of unity among fans. Long may we prosper with a club to be proud of, at whatever level we're able to achieve |
We've been dished up a lousy bill of fayre on the pitch for quite a while now against a toxic back-drop off it. A lot were resigned to relegation and I had a feeling also to not bothering going much anymore. This is a massive turning point and if handled properly (which I've no doubt it will be) could be a catalyst to turn the clubs fortunes around across the board (and amongst the board).
Trust numbers have also improved - something which I hope will continue and set a new record in honour of the work done by all involved.
Current toals
562 members (including 144 exiles)
NB: 326 lapsed 2020/21 — not renewed yet |  |
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| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:36 - Jun 2 with 3522 views | IOMDale |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:27 - Jun 2 by LeeBrookfield |
We should all listen to The Price of football podcast tomorrow, we are first on the list.
Worryingly enough they talk about Matt Southall and Glenn Thomas as investors.
Thomas was at the head of Bury's demise with Stewart Day and the guy who brought in Steve Dale. Highly recommend people google him.
As for Matt Southall 'Football agent'? You may remember put an expensive penthouse and range rover on Charltons costs while getting his collar felt and a £21,000 fine for doing illegal things with the clubs status [see link below]
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53449265
If these are the two Bottomley or anyone else is touting as new investors, Lord help me. |
Matt Southall, you say? What could possibly go wrong:
As for Glenn Thomas, just search 'Glenn Thomas+Bury' on Google. |  |
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| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:40 - Jun 2 with 3464 views | CockneyDale |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 09:39 - Jun 2 by rochedale |
Well done to all who could see right through these plans, I reckon the club would be goosed without you all. You just don’t expect people to be that way inclined, or at least I don’t. Hopefully something will come of last night where you all get the plaudits you deserve with the trust being an example to other clubs. Looking forward to a full report/video of last night, if it becomes available. |
EDIT - replied to wrong message [Post edited 2 Jun 2021 11:47]
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| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:43 - Jun 2 with 3421 views | Mundell |
Been a shareholder since 2009 and attended the AGMs and EGMs via Zoom last night to listen to the discussion and with the intention of voting, based on the evidence presented, in what I felt would be in the best interests of club. I don’t live in the town. I follow the club from afar and don’t, therefore, have an ‘inside track’ or the ‘feel’ those much closer to the situation might have. Against that background, I thought I’d share my reflections on last night and some observations about what might happen next.
To start with the conclusion, the entire evening was a complete train wreck for the board. My prior when joining the call was that the board does, genuinely have the club’s interests at heart, but that it might lack substance and experience. By the end of the evening I’d concluded that their intentions, whatever they might be, were much less relevant than their tragic, serial incompetence. When, almost five hours in, it came to voting on the two Trust resolutions, the decision was a fairly straightforward one. It was surprising the votes were so close.
John Smallwood’s intervention was stunning. There was simply no way back once he’d said that he resigned on the grounds of integrity and that more than one board level decision had been taken that he’d been unaware of. However, for me, what was most telling was that David Bottomley simply ‘hid’ while the storm raged around him, leaving his colleagues to cover for him. I kept expecting him to intervene and say, “This is down to me. I arranged the Manager’s contract extension. I worked on the basis this was a delegated authority, but I was wrong.” Or something like that. But nothing. If he has received any pay increase, let alone a substantial one, while the pandemic has been underway, as was being implied, then that is absolutely unforgiveable, but he made no attempt to deny it. His position is surely now untenable. Graham Rawlinson appears to be hapless and hopeless.
The board huddle, during which they decided to withdraw their four resolutions, was extraordinary. They were asked the key and most obvious question several times, most directly by a small shareholder on Zoom, but were unable to produce a coherent answer, despite several attempts. It is still not clear why the board couldn’t have found a buyer, or investor, done their due diligence, agreed a deal, and then put that to shareholders with their recommendation. Why the need for a ‘blind sale’? That said, and to be a bit provocative, some of the extremely pedantic questioning, early on in the meeting, from people with tiny shareholdings, might well have rung alarm bells with some potential buyers, especially amongst those that like to get to bed well before midnight.
My perspective, for what it’s worth, is that the outcome last night was the right one as far as all six resolutions were concerned. However, that doesn’t mean to say that what happened is necessarily good news. Rochdale AFC still faces an existential threat. The club has enjoyed a fantastic run over the last 10-12 years, outperforming its wage bill on the pitch, and benefitting of it from an unsustainable combination of transfer profits and windfall revenues from cup runs. The rubber was always going to hit the road at some point. Bottomley is right that a strategy for change and the money to fund it are both needed. Last night doesn’t change that reality.
I’ve no idea what happens now. It seemed clear last night that Dan Altman and Emre Marcelli would still like to acquire a majority stake in the club. A reasonable assumption though is that they want to do that at a price somewhere below that which the board believe might be available from elsewhere. At a price of £2 per share, for example, they could take control for around £0.8m without any need to increase the company’s authorised share capital. I assume the board doesn’t believe that’s enough. However, after the beating they took last night I wonder if what’s left of the board might decide to put that, or something close, to shareholders after all? If Bottomley goes as CEO (and surely he must), then it must be fairly likely that Altman and Marcelli will now join the board, whether they provide any new capital or not. That would also solve an immediate problem. Either way, the club is now in play. There’s an element of frying pan and fire about this situation and we might need to hope that the Americans come good. Can we trust them? [Post edited 2 Jun 2021 12:12]
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| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:43 - Jun 2 with 3413 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 23:07 - Jun 1 by SuddenLad |
It has been rumoured that 30% would be nearer the mark. |
Shocking if true....but EXACT pay rise needs to be confirmed.
Only at Rochdale. | | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:44 - Jun 2 with 3412 views | CockneyDale |
Just wanted to add my congratulations and gratitude to all those who represented the Trust, shareholders and the true interests of the Club last night.
The funding issues will remain, so the war is far from won, but all involved should take pride in winning the first battle. Thank you. | | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:48 - Jun 2 with 3371 views | CockneyDale |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 09:42 - Jun 2 by seasidedale |
Just thinking in line with past remark by Bottomley, how many directors are being paid?
I always thought it was just him. Being CEO |
Would Frances Fielding and Nick Grindrod also fall into this category? | | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:53 - Jun 2 with 3325 views | DaleiLama |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 10:02 - Jun 2 by ncfc_chalky |
An absolutely astounding read.
The sly way the 'not' was left from the vote,people in power not knowing about BBM's extension and a pay rise that make a mockery of everything that's gone on financially over the past year is all shocking to read about,I know that it's been said before but if you haven't joined the trust then do so because the more that join the louder the voice and they've earned their fiver over the past few weeks
Well done to all of you Daley's in looking out for your club and showing that directors can't just do what they want,I doff my cap and applaud all of you 
UTD |
You know Chalky, in hindsight, if the contract extension was the "straw that broke the camels back", at least as far as getting the result we got last night is concerned, it may just have been a price worth paying?
Assuming BBM is told winning actually does matter next season and he doesn't get us back-to-back relegations, looking at the big picture, we might actually be in a better position on the basis that the level of support for the Trusts resolutions may not have been anywhere near as committed last night had BBM no longer been in post. The delicious irony of him being hoisted by his own petard makes this moment even sweeter! | |
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| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:54 - Jun 2 with 3311 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 09:26 - Jun 2 by tony_roch975 |
180,000 abstentions on DB vote, 185,000 on GR vote |
As damning as the votes to remove IMO. DB & GR clearly didn’t have the backing of some major shareholders after recent events.
On a wider note there are a few points I’d like the “new” board to clarify once they’re in place,
1- what are the current requirements to become a member of the board? The “10 shares plus £25k” may have been the case in the 80’s but surely not now?
2- what checks & balances will be put in place so that executive pay increases can be properly overseen to avoid a repeat of the 15-30% pay rise debacle?
3- will the board ensure that my future appointments to the role of chief exec are forbidden from holding shares in the club, thus avoiding a conflict of interest? |  | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 12:04 - Jun 2 with 3225 views | NorthernDale |
Glenn Thomas was CEO at Bury, under Mr Day, when they ran up debts and could not pay them back. Remember how Day borrowed money in the name of Bury FC, he also sold the car park. Thomas is also friends with Steve Dale, which is enough to say "No".
Matt Southall it is claimed passed on 1.2 million of personal debt on to Charlton, he is also close friends with Laurence Bassini. Southall was also found guilty by a court of removing directors (without their consent) from the ESI company (directors list) that I believed owned Charlton to prevent its sale, the judge stated his actions was 'unlawful'. His associate Bassini (with those with short memories) was I believed banned from being involved in any club for three years in 2013 after owing Watford 1.5 million, Bassini was also involved in the attempted takeover of Bolton in 2019, but the deal fell through, when it was disclosed that he had not got the money to buy Bolton, he also tried to buy Oldham, but was rejected for obvious reasons, he also tried to buy Charlton.
It is amazing at how all of these questionable people are connected and says a lot about Bottomley and his lack of judgement, if he is seeking investments from these people. | | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 12:12 - Jun 2 with 3170 views | pioneer |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 09:24 - Jun 2 by swindondale |
I think it is worth mentioning that last nights outcome was in part made possible by the wide distribution of shareholdings.
My memory is vague but at some point (20-30 years ago?) a decision was made to issue new shares and make them available for anyone to purchase. The rules of the share issue being designed to encourage widespread ownership. The idea being that if the shareholdings were spread between many rather than a few, the chances of the Club falling into dubious hands was greatly reduced.
I believe this is where we differ from many other clubs.
I can't remember when or which Board instigated this, but they deserve our thanks. |
In 1981, following a complaint from a member of the public to Companies House, the Club was directed to hold an AGM, the first time an AGM was held since 1972, at which annual accounts for the previous 8 years were presented to shareholders.
An open share issue was made in 1982, 54,000 @ 50p per share
A rights issue was made in 1997 where existing shareholders were offered new shares based on 2/3 of their existing shareholding.
I havent had chance to go through every annual report since then so there may have been other public share issues. Since these dates pre dated the Trust I am guessing there have been more recent share issues unless the Trusts shares are the result of transfers from other shareholders. | | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 12:12 - Jun 2 with 3167 views | fermin |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:48 - Jun 2 by CockneyDale |
Would Frances Fielding and Nick Grindrod also fall into this category? |
There were various questions about this issue and my recollection is that one of them asked about executive pay rather than director pay. I am not sure if that was the one John Smallwood replied to. Frances Fielding is an executive director so could be included in that as she is an employee. However, she is still part of the board and was one of those who went into the back room to discuss withdrawing the share motions unless my eyes deceived me.
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/club/whos-who/ (now needs updating)
Nick Grindrod is not an employee but his firm are the club's accountants so they would be paid as a contractor presumably.
I am not sure how things differ for directors of companies but revealing an employee's pay without their consent would surely be a breach of GDPR so I am not sure if the details could be made public, despite the questions last night. |  | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 12:42 - Jun 2 with 2940 views | TrueDaleBlue |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:05 - Jun 2 by R17ALE |
He is the only paid Director I think.
For clarity, Goldbond was 17,000 members at 50p = £8500 take per week producing profits in excess of £5,000 per week after commission, prizes, wages, petrol etc. |
I stand corrected R17ALE, I knew I’d heard the 17000 figure somewhere. Thanks for the clarity, still £5000 per week profit compared to the profit we generate now, some should be held accountable, especially when they are receiving massive pay increases. | | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 12:43 - Jun 2 with 2925 views | BigKindo |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 10:42 - Jun 2 by SuddenLad |
Too bloody true we need an answer to it.
We're in the middle of a pandemic, staff laid-off, people losing their jobs at the club, playing budgets slashed, playing squad reduced and yet someone sees fit to take/award/accept (delete as appropriate) a pay increase equal to 30%. It's dreamland. Then you can plead poverty on behalf of the club and talk to people about a 'managed relegation'. Yes, that actually happened. In both senses of the phrase.
John Smallwood deserves our gratitude for not staying silent when it was obvious that there was more to be told. Referring back to something mentioned by R17ALE a few days ago, I well remember John and his late father standing on the terraces behind the Pearl Street goal, when it was a cow shed and a few steps in the 1960's. He has been a dyed-in-the-wool fan of this club for as long as I can remember.
As R17ALE asked, can anyone ever remember any of the other people present at the top table, ever pitching up at Spotland, paying an entrance fee and standing in the open terraces with a brolly, watching a home defeat against (insert team name here). No. I don't and I've been going as long as many others. These claims about 'loving this club with a passion' and 'lifetime supporter' just don't add up. Especially when you are finally exposed as someone with dodgy credentials and a lack of empathy for others.
From me and others, John Smallwood - A big thanks for having the guts and integrity to challenge the deliberately misleading comments and make us all aware of the mistrust and dishonesty in evidence. Of course, that's a Dale SUPPORTER in action.
No wonder the sun is shining brightly over Spotland today. |
The alleged 'managed relegation.' I wonder what William Hills, Bet 365 et al would make of that if it was provable? |  | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 13:19 - Jun 2 with 2662 views | tony_roch975 |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 09:48 - Jun 2 by swiggy |
Can someone let me know where I can find Col’s statement please |
https://t.co/ck1xw5lZHz?amp=1 | |
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| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 13:28 - Jun 2 with 2590 views | swiggy |
Thanks | | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 13:29 - Jun 2 with 2578 views | 100notout |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 11:05 - Jun 2 by BillyRudd |
I bow to your first hand knowledge 100notout but as someone just reading this thread I fail to understand the empathy with TP?
If someone states 10 to 15% and the true figure is 30% I have another word for what you term "loyalty and discretion"!
Am happy to be told what I am missing but for ALL the remaining Directors this now falls into the category of "What did you know and when did you know it"?
Until such a time, then for me they are all tainted by association.
Up the Dale |
Hard to disagree with that BR after last night. Call it loyalty, discretion or whatever you want, there’s no doubt in my mind he could have spilled the beans last night but he didn’t and that’s why I said misplaced. Maybe he was bullied/threatened/isolated and felt that he couldn’t stand up to his “seniors” Either way I think he’ll reflect on last night / last couple of years and think that he could have done better. What I would say is that in Kelly’s absence (said to be on medical grounds but that sounded a bit too convenient for me) TP stepped up to the plate and fronted it all - I still think he’s a good guy - my opinion.
As somebody said what was really disappointing but not surprising was that DB cowardly sat there without publicly stating the facts and let others try to gloss over it. Thankfully we could all see through it. | |
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| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 13:51 - Jun 2 with 2454 views | 1907 |
I genuinely believe last night was one of those watershed moments that a lot of us will look back on with great pride & will be talked about in many pubs around the borough for many years to come.
A huge thanks must go to the Trust & Col for all their hard work in recent weeks which have enabled us to arrive at the turning point we are now at.
All I could think about throughout the 5 hour marathon last night was Bury.
Bury fans & shareholders sat in meetings very similar to what we experienced last night yet few chose to act in the decisive manner that the Dale family did.
Trevor Butterworth giving it to the board & calling them a shambles was amazing.
Graham Morris attempting to be a saviour of the club for the umpteenth time.
C E Lord holding the incompetent buffoons' to account & taking no prisoners with his questioning.
There's too many to mention but today is truly a proud day to be a Dale fan & everybody involved should rightly feel elated. | | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 13:57 - Jun 2 with 2419 views | kel |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 13:51 - Jun 2 by 1907 |
I genuinely believe last night was one of those watershed moments that a lot of us will look back on with great pride & will be talked about in many pubs around the borough for many years to come.
A huge thanks must go to the Trust & Col for all their hard work in recent weeks which have enabled us to arrive at the turning point we are now at.
All I could think about throughout the 5 hour marathon last night was Bury.
Bury fans & shareholders sat in meetings very similar to what we experienced last night yet few chose to act in the decisive manner that the Dale family did.
Trevor Butterworth giving it to the board & calling them a shambles was amazing.
Graham Morris attempting to be a saviour of the club for the umpteenth time.
C E Lord holding the incompetent buffoons' to account & taking no prisoners with his questioning.
There's too many to mention but today is truly a proud day to be a Dale fan & everybody involved should rightly feel elated. |
A bury fan messaged me this earlier (I’m sure he won’t mind me sharing)
“I’m glad you lot have more about you than we did.” |  | | |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 14:02 - Jun 2 with 2370 views | swindondale |
| AGM / EGM /AGM / EGM Match update thread - kick off 7pm on 12:12 - Jun 2 by pioneer |
In 1981, following a complaint from a member of the public to Companies House, the Club was directed to hold an AGM, the first time an AGM was held since 1972, at which annual accounts for the previous 8 years were presented to shareholders.
An open share issue was made in 1982, 54,000 @ 50p per share
A rights issue was made in 1997 where existing shareholders were offered new shares based on 2/3 of their existing shareholding.
I havent had chance to go through every annual report since then so there may have been other public share issues. Since these dates pre dated the Trust I am guessing there have been more recent share issues unless the Trusts shares are the result of transfers from other shareholders. |
Thanks for digging out that info Pioneer.
Certainly having the shareholdings spread so widely makes any take over far from a straightforward process (as last night's events showed). | | | |
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