| The (Art) Rooney rule 16:21 - Oct 1 with 6070 views | pioneer |
Sir Trevor Brooking OBE, MBE on the Rooney rule:
"I don't see why you shouldn't have three black coaches in the final shortlist if they're the best"
The rooney rule doesn't limit shortlists to one token visible minority, it limits it to being more than zero - so much for his 10 O levels - where they all in technical drawing?
"Some black coaches say they're not given a chance but I do think a lot of them have to get themselves in that position. There is a reluctance from people sometimes and they feel it should be handed to them."
And I thought Thatcher was dead - clearly her ideas aren't. Fortunately he is no longer at the FA, but I suspect his feelings remain within the establishment. It is attitudes like this that have held back football in England for so long.
Mind you he is from Barking. |  | | |  |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 02:17 - Oct 3 with 1109 views | pioneer |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 23:09 - Oct 2 by D_Alien |
But you also need to read my previous posts, based on experience within an organisation that employs almost 10000 people locally.
You keep responding, but failing to answer my question about why you think it's ok to cast totally unfounded aspersions on the character of Trevor Brooking.
That's what I'm measuring your responses by.
And yes, I'll need to stop posting "this is my final word..." |
go back to my original post and read the quotes, in particular the second one.
the rooney rule does not involve minorities having jobs they dont deserve handed to them
that would be a better description of the queens honours list. he has ben the recipient of things being handed to him. | | | |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 07:54 - Oct 3 with 1071 views | TTNYear |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 02:17 - Oct 3 by pioneer |
go back to my original post and read the quotes, in particular the second one.
the rooney rule does not involve minorities having jobs they dont deserve handed to them
that would be a better description of the queens honours list. he has ben the recipient of things being handed to him. |
It might not hand them jobs that they don't deserve but it may hand them an interview spot.
Don't you see that?
I have no problem with seeing more minorities become managers. But this isn't the way. This token spot, will be seen just as that. Which why it's harmful.
'But they will have met the criteria'. They would have passed that anyway if they were serious contenders for the position.
What this rule is implying is that 92 clubs (or more if you go non league) on the whole are being inherently racist, which I doubt. But it would also get more minorities managing. Which it won't.
So again, give me a positive, apart from it gives more interview experience. |  |
| Anti-cliquism is the last refuge of the messageboard scoundrel - Copyright Dorset Dale productions |
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| The (Art) Rooney rule on 09:29 - Oct 3 with 1036 views | D_Dale |
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tony Collins, who was good enough to act as Dale's manager for several years (1960-67) and later the assistant manager Tony Ford.
It pains me to write it, but if neither was 'white' they weren't '100% black' either. It pains me because it seems demeaning, to both candidates and those appointing, that applicants' skin colour should be closely scrutinised alongside other attributes. Ideally, there'd be no relevance in a person's 'race' or 'ethnicity' (both imprecise terms), though that time appears far distant. | | | |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 10:02 - Oct 3 with 1017 views | D_Alien |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 02:17 - Oct 3 by pioneer |
go back to my original post and read the quotes, in particular the second one.
the rooney rule does not involve minorities having jobs they dont deserve handed to them
that would be a better description of the queens honours list. he has ben the recipient of things being handed to him. |
So basically, you see fit to slate him for being the recipient of something when you've actually no idea whether he's deserving of it or not.
And for that, you accuse him of having attitudes which hold back English football and make a cheap jibe about where he originates from.
To sum up, your OP is the ONLY post on this thread that displays the slightest degree of prejudice.
Well done. |  |
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| The (Art) Rooney rule on 11:21 - Oct 3 with 986 views | pioneer |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 10:02 - Oct 3 by D_Alien |
So basically, you see fit to slate him for being the recipient of something when you've actually no idea whether he's deserving of it or not.
And for that, you accuse him of having attitudes which hold back English football and make a cheap jibe about where he originates from.
To sum up, your OP is the ONLY post on this thread that displays the slightest degree of prejudice.
Well done. |
Oh. dear, you have slowly but gradually managed to redirect the content of this thread away from the original topic.
honours on the honours list are handed out. Brooking has got more of them than he has football medals.
Barking is where the BNP made its greatest inroads, becoming the second largest party on the local council. I simply find that ironic. But it might explin his views on this matter.
My apologies to anyone who feels i have shown them any form of prjudice, though I am at a loss to understnd how. | | | |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 11:48 - Oct 3 with 964 views | TalkingSutty |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 07:54 - Oct 3 by TTNYear |
It might not hand them jobs that they don't deserve but it may hand them an interview spot.
Don't you see that?
I have no problem with seeing more minorities become managers. But this isn't the way. This token spot, will be seen just as that. Which why it's harmful.
'But they will have met the criteria'. They would have passed that anyway if they were serious contenders for the position.
What this rule is implying is that 92 clubs (or more if you go non league) on the whole are being inherently racist, which I doubt. But it would also get more minorities managing. Which it won't.
So again, give me a positive, apart from it gives more interview experience. |
You would have thought that the overwhelming majority of black/ethnic 'want to be football managers' would be outraged if they had been granted a job interview just because of the colour of their skin. Self pride would make the majority of people tell them to stick the interview.
The black managers are no different than the majority of white managers, most of them are crap at their jobs, only a few succeed. Paul Ince is just an arrogant bully with a huge chip on his shoulder and is a poor roll model for any aspiring black manager. |  | | |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 12:18 - Oct 3 with 941 views | DorsetDale |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 11:48 - Oct 3 by TalkingSutty |
You would have thought that the overwhelming majority of black/ethnic 'want to be football managers' would be outraged if they had been granted a job interview just because of the colour of their skin. Self pride would make the majority of people tell them to stick the interview.
The black managers are no different than the majority of white managers, most of them are crap at their jobs, only a few succeed. Paul Ince is just an arrogant bully with a huge chip on his shoulder and is a poor roll model for any aspiring black manager. |
Spot on. Best post on thread. No need for any more debate. | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
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| The (Art) Rooney rule on 12:21 - Oct 3 with 941 views | D_Alien |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 11:21 - Oct 3 by pioneer |
Oh. dear, you have slowly but gradually managed to redirect the content of this thread away from the original topic.
honours on the honours list are handed out. Brooking has got more of them than he has football medals.
Barking is where the BNP made its greatest inroads, becoming the second largest party on the local council. I simply find that ironic. But it might explin his views on this matter.
My apologies to anyone who feels i have shown them any form of prjudice, though I am at a loss to understnd how. |
All of the points I've raised have followed on from your OP
You've now compounded your original prejudice against Brooking by implying that he might hold racist views because he comes from Barking.
I can't imagine a mindset more prejudiced than that, but you've stated you're unable to understand why that might be.
Pots and kettles, dear. | |
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| The (Art) Rooney rule on 14:35 - Oct 3 with 884 views | pioneer |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 12:21 - Oct 3 by D_Alien |
All of the points I've raised have followed on from your OP
You've now compounded your original prejudice against Brooking by implying that he might hold racist views because he comes from Barking.
I can't imagine a mindset more prejudiced than that, but you've stated you're unable to understand why that might be.
Pots and kettles, dear. |
Where I have accused Sir Trevor of being a racist or holding racist views? - I have explained he was brought up in a community that has shown itself to be less open minded about race relations than others. Maybe that explains why he is inclined to see part of the problem being some groups expecting opportunities to be handed to them. Unlike you, I do not believe people who hold different views to myself on this matter are racist or prejudiced.
I have no prejudice against him or anyone who has contributed to this debate (though I do feel sorry for the individual who made a vulgar and offensive attack on Garth Crooks), I just find Brooking's statements unfortunate and not likely to advance the cause of football in England. Lets face it he has been involved with the FA for donkeys years, years marked by underachievement and zero progress in making the senior levels of the game more reflective of the playing population.
He is welcome to his views and the rest of us are welcome to discuss them, without the need for anyone on here to make accusations of others being prejudiced. | | | |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 16:13 - Oct 3 with 841 views | D_Alien |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 14:35 - Oct 3 by pioneer |
Where I have accused Sir Trevor of being a racist or holding racist views? - I have explained he was brought up in a community that has shown itself to be less open minded about race relations than others. Maybe that explains why he is inclined to see part of the problem being some groups expecting opportunities to be handed to them. Unlike you, I do not believe people who hold different views to myself on this matter are racist or prejudiced.
I have no prejudice against him or anyone who has contributed to this debate (though I do feel sorry for the individual who made a vulgar and offensive attack on Garth Crooks), I just find Brooking's statements unfortunate and not likely to advance the cause of football in England. Lets face it he has been involved with the FA for donkeys years, years marked by underachievement and zero progress in making the senior levels of the game more reflective of the playing population.
He is welcome to his views and the rest of us are welcome to discuss them, without the need for anyone on here to make accusations of others being prejudiced. |
Well we could continue batting this back and forth and boring everyone else, but it was pretty explicit that you regarded Brooking's intervention to be a reflection of him harbouring racist attitudes. I won't drop your quotes in here (although will do so if you insist) because everyone can read them for themselves.
But thanks for the retraction.
It's intellectually dishonest of you (and you know it) to state that I believe people who hold different views to myself on the matter are racist/prejudiced. When faced with such dishonesty, the only thing to do is smile and move on. | |
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| The (Art) Rooney rule on 16:31 - Oct 3 with 823 views | pioneer |
| The (Art) Rooney rule on 16:13 - Oct 3 by D_Alien |
Well we could continue batting this back and forth and boring everyone else, but it was pretty explicit that you regarded Brooking's intervention to be a reflection of him harbouring racist attitudes. I won't drop your quotes in here (although will do so if you insist) because everyone can read them for themselves.
But thanks for the retraction.
It's intellectually dishonest of you (and you know it) to state that I believe people who hold different views to myself on the matter are racist/prejudiced. When faced with such dishonesty, the only thing to do is smile and move on. |
"You've now compounded your original prejudice against Brooking by implying that he might hold racist views because he comes from Barking. I can't imagine a mindset more prejudiced than that"
I think that's an accusation that my views are prejudiced. Nothing dishonest, intellectually or otherwise.
Keep smiling | | | |
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