| Hill to Blackburn? 12:28 - May 8 with 92408 views | MoonyDale |
This rumour just won't go away, just had a text from someone saying as much and the betting has Hilly at 5/1 second fave....Still think it's doubtful but you never know.... |  |
| |  |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:13 - May 24 with 3349 views | dingdangblue |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 10:26 - May 24 by DaleiLama |
An interesting conundrum. Do you limit or stop selling players on to try to get to the next level which would discourage other talent from coming in and using Dale as a stepping stone in their careers, or stick with the in/out turnstile approach of developing and selling talent to line the pockets of the club and manager.
In view of the ST pricing policy and ever-diminishing crowds, I suspect we've found the smoking gun and it will be business as usual. That begs the question is this model capable of generating another promotion? Spurs seem to be morphing from a selling club into one with ambition to get to the top. Can the two co-exist? Interesting to see how Keith reshapes his team this season and if he can keep making improvements within his normal budget and attrition constraints. |
Along with the club and the manager profiting - you also have to put the player in the equation - at the end of the day it is clear that we cannot compete wage wise with any club in this division (without going into debt) or higher - thats just the plain facts. If a player is wanted by another club we are very likely to lose him. Sad - but that's just the way it is. I know we all hated losing Matt Done at a time we had a real chance of getting in the play offs but trebling or quadrupling his wages is something Hill admitted he just could not deny him. |  |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:22 - May 24 with 3314 views | macro |
New managerial rumours
Sheridan to Notts County! |  | | |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:30 - May 24 with 3281 views | TVOS1907 |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:22 - May 24 by macro |
New managerial rumours
Sheridan to Notts County! |
Thought she was vey good as Cilla. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:39 - May 24 with 3237 views | SteTsGoldenBoot |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:30 - May 24 by TVOS1907 |
Thought she was vey good as Cilla. |
Aston Cilla? |  |
| Everything thats been, has past. The answers in the looking glass! |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:40 - May 24 with 3236 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 09:03 - May 24 by dingdangblue |
I would agree it is the wrong way to incentivise a manager - as long as that manager isn't Keith Hill. He is quite unique at this level - and certainly for us he is irreplaceable - the success he has had spotting a player with potential and resurrecting their career. Most of the players we have sold and he has profited from (if the rumours are true) are all here because of him and his talent in developing and coaching - I have no problems whatsoever if is paid extra because of this. [Post edited 24 May 2016 11:01]
|
Its not a one way street though. The majority of players at any club are only there because of the manager,thats not unique to Keith Hill. Also, the main reason those players are at the Club is because WE are paying them a salary, not Hilly but the Club and indirectly the fans.
Hilly is able to make a decent living because the Club employed him both as a player, youth coach and manager. Both parties have been good for each other and most clubs sell players for big profits from time to time, thats not unusual although Hilly has been pretty successful at it dowm the years. |  | | |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:52 - May 24 with 3202 views | macro |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:30 - May 24 by TVOS1907 |
Thought she was vey good as Cilla. |
If that appointment goes through, they’ll be a lorra lorra lot of laughs on here | | | |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:58 - May 24 with 3177 views | DaleiLama |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:30 - May 24 by TVOS1907 |
Thought she was vey good as Cilla. |
Surely an offer for Le Fondre to follow ......... and then the questions start? |  |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 12:04 - May 24 with 3162 views | BigKindo |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:40 - May 24 by TalkingSutty |
Its not a one way street though. The majority of players at any club are only there because of the manager,thats not unique to Keith Hill. Also, the main reason those players are at the Club is because WE are paying them a salary, not Hilly but the Club and indirectly the fans.
Hilly is able to make a decent living because the Club employed him both as a player, youth coach and manager. Both parties have been good for each other and most clubs sell players for big profits from time to time, thats not unusual although Hilly has been pretty successful at it dowm the years. |
....... and the rumoured size of the incoming transfer fees would appear to be somewhat larger than the fees previously accepted for the likes of Holty, Lambert et al. in what could perhaps have been fire sales. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Hill to Blackburn? on 12:16 - May 24 with 3115 views | dingdangblue |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:40 - May 24 by TalkingSutty |
Its not a one way street though. The majority of players at any club are only there because of the manager,thats not unique to Keith Hill. Also, the main reason those players are at the Club is because WE are paying them a salary, not Hilly but the Club and indirectly the fans.
Hilly is able to make a decent living because the Club employed him both as a player, youth coach and manager. Both parties have been good for each other and most clubs sell players for big profits from time to time, thats not unusual although Hilly has been pretty successful at it dowm the years. |
I'd say its pretty unusual to keep getting players for free transfers and sell them for huge profits - certainly when we cant tie them down to 3-4 year contracts like other clubs do - Hill has such a small window of time to get it right - yes occasionally it doesn't go to plan like when Dagnall, Kennedy left on free's where we could have got decent fee's had they been under contract but thankfully its quite rare. | |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 12:21 - May 24 with 3078 views | ColDale |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 06:22 - May 24 by TalkingSutty |
I was reading an article last week regarding the number of managers who have lost their jobs over the last couple of years and the figures are frightening. The majority are no longer in work.
When it comes to money Hilly doesn't need to gamble his career by moving to another Club, he can make himself very wealthy just by staying at Rochdale ( he probably already is wealthy compared to the average man on the street).
It's all very well thinking the grass is greener on the other side but with higher pay comes higher pressures and does he want that? He's got a good job at Rochdale and lets speculate he earns 3K/week ( It could be more),over a three year deal that's nearly half a million pounds which is very good money.
The best thing Hilly can do in the current climate of hiring and firing managers is to look at the big picture, drop anchor at Spotland and kick the arse out of the job for another few years. It might get a bit monotonous at times but he will have longevity and is guaranteeing his family a financially secure future. When you think of the money Hilly generates for the club pushing out the boat regarding his salary makes perfect sense because just like the L'Oreal ad,'He's worth it'. [Post edited 24 May 2016 6:25]
|
I'd argue he'd probably earn more money from a three year deal at Spotland compared to a three year deal at Blackburn given the much rumoured transfer fee clause and the likelihood that a three year deal at Blackburn would be cut short. When you hear about clubs like Peterboro and Swindon giving out five year deals, you have to assume that sacked managers no longer get the remainder of their contracts paid off. |  | | |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 12:26 - May 24 with 3052 views | D_Alien |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:30 - May 24 by TVOS1907 |
Thought she was vey good as Cilla. |
She was very good pre-Cilla but now she's famous it's black and white |  |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 12:27 - May 24 with 3041 views | fitzochris |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 12:21 - May 24 by ColDale |
I'd argue he'd probably earn more money from a three year deal at Spotland compared to a three year deal at Blackburn given the much rumoured transfer fee clause and the likelihood that a three year deal at Blackburn would be cut short. When you hear about clubs like Peterboro and Swindon giving out five year deals, you have to assume that sacked managers no longer get the remainder of their contracts paid off. |
I think they usually agree to one year's compensation when it comes to contracts of that length. |  |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 14:02 - May 24 with 2786 views | dalestats |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 12:27 - May 24 by fitzochris |
I think they usually agree to one year's compensation when it comes to contracts of that length. |
I think it depends on the club. Some managers get paid until they find another job. Others get a severance package. Different clubs different choices.
On a different subject any clues to what Hill says regarding recruitment in todays dale player interview? |  |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 14:14 - May 24 with 2740 views | fitzochris |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 14:02 - May 24 by dalestats |
I think it depends on the club. Some managers get paid until they find another job. Others get a severance package. Different clubs different choices.
On a different subject any clues to what Hill says regarding recruitment in todays dale player interview? |
Every club is different, of course.
However, I'm basing what I say on the fact Sam Allardyce and Alan Pardew, both of who signed long-term deals with clubs, stating that you never get paid the length of the deal if you're sacked and that one year is the normal compromise agreed up front. I can't remember which of them said long-term deals aren't worth as much as they sound and just prevent the need for a rolling contract. They suit the club more than the manager in many ways because, if the manager is poached, the existing club is entitled to compo. | |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 14:34 - May 24 with 2672 views | KenBoon |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 14:02 - May 24 by dalestats |
I think it depends on the club. Some managers get paid until they find another job. Others get a severance package. Different clubs different choices.
On a different subject any clues to what Hill says regarding recruitment in todays dale player interview? |
He says the usual stuff about having to wait.
His comments on the new Football League proposals are DYNAMITE though (clickbait).
He says they're creating a Premier League 2 (they are) and doesn't sound particularly supportive |  | | |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 19:03 - May 24 with 2471 views | dalestats |
Sherwood to Derby is the latest rumour
Still Vacancies at
Aston Villa
Blackburn Rovers
Blackpool
Bolton Wanderers
Charlton Athletic
Everton
Leyton Orient
Nottingham Forest
Notts County
Port Vale
Rotherham
Plus
Barnsley & Walsall who haven't got permanent managers at the mo
Add to that
Leeds rumoured to be giving Evans the chop and Derby look to give Sherwood the job | |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 19:40 - May 24 with 2399 views | pioneer |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 12:27 - May 24 by fitzochris |
I think they usually agree to one year's compensation when it comes to contracts of that length. |
Isnt the issue that a manager sacked without due cause (ie breaking his contract, poor performance is not due cause) is entitled to full amount of contract but then can be reassigned duties by the club (in accordance with his skills, ie not sent to clean the toilets or mow the pitch)? So not wanting to stick around, they negotiate a deal with the club which releases both from the terms of the contract. So if Van Gaal wanted to, he could stick around and claim the full (alleged) 6.5m (and work under his buddy Jose!) but instead he is negotiating for an (alleged) 5m severance package that releases both parties from the contractual obligations and lets him take over at.......for another X million. | | | |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 19:58 - May 24 with 2357 views | fitzochris |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 19:40 - May 24 by pioneer |
Isnt the issue that a manager sacked without due cause (ie breaking his contract, poor performance is not due cause) is entitled to full amount of contract but then can be reassigned duties by the club (in accordance with his skills, ie not sent to clean the toilets or mow the pitch)? So not wanting to stick around, they negotiate a deal with the club which releases both from the terms of the contract. So if Van Gaal wanted to, he could stick around and claim the full (alleged) 6.5m (and work under his buddy Jose!) but instead he is negotiating for an (alleged) 5m severance package that releases both parties from the contractual obligations and lets him take over at.......for another X million. |
There will be lots of foibles, I'm sure.
The basic point being made is that - and I'll take Pardew as my example given he signed some kind of crazy seven-year contract at Newcastle - if a manager is dismissed before his contract is up it is very rare that he will have his entire contract paid up in full.
Sam Allardyce and Pardew have both said this at various points, and I'm quite sure they talk to other managers, but when they sign these long-term deals it usually comes with a caveat that they except a finite amount of compo. Big Sam gave the example of one year. I can't remember what club that was at. Might have been Newcastle also.
The due course thing is a bit of a smoke screen, as most managers are sacked for what a club deems as poor performance. A lot of contracts will have set targets written into them anyway.
I'm no lawyer and I don't work for the LMA, so I'm merely parroting what I've heard or read from managers working in the game today.
Don't get me wrong, I'm quite sure there are plenty of elaborate contracts agreed between clubs and managers (I'd love to know the terms Man United and Mourinho agree, for example), but I was just making a point that I don't believe long-term contracts are paid up in full should a manager be sacked for poor performance. | |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 21:48 - May 24 with 2145 views | downunder |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 11:58 - May 24 by DaleiLama |
Surely an offer for Le Fondre to follow ......... and then the questions start? |
Eh! What's that all about? |  | | |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 22:28 - May 24 with 2069 views | TVOS1907 |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 21:48 - May 24 by downunder |
Eh! What's that all about? |
It would be a surprise (surprise). | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 23:07 - May 24 with 2005 views | pioneer |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 19:58 - May 24 by fitzochris |
There will be lots of foibles, I'm sure.
The basic point being made is that - and I'll take Pardew as my example given he signed some kind of crazy seven-year contract at Newcastle - if a manager is dismissed before his contract is up it is very rare that he will have his entire contract paid up in full.
Sam Allardyce and Pardew have both said this at various points, and I'm quite sure they talk to other managers, but when they sign these long-term deals it usually comes with a caveat that they except a finite amount of compo. Big Sam gave the example of one year. I can't remember what club that was at. Might have been Newcastle also.
The due course thing is a bit of a smoke screen, as most managers are sacked for what a club deems as poor performance. A lot of contracts will have set targets written into them anyway.
I'm no lawyer and I don't work for the LMA, so I'm merely parroting what I've heard or read from managers working in the game today.
Don't get me wrong, I'm quite sure there are plenty of elaborate contracts agreed between clubs and managers (I'd love to know the terms Man United and Mourinho agree, for example), but I was just making a point that I don't believe long-term contracts are paid up in full should a manager be sacked for poor performance. |
but the point is these moaning managers are probaly not being totally transparent...what a shock. If they want the full payout then they have to remain as employees under the contract. They cannot have the money and be released from doing anything for it.
Of course if poor performance (of the players of course) was to qualify as due cause there would be no need for any compensation. They would be deemed to have not fulfilled the terms of the contract and be sacked without the need for any compo.
Anyway I cannot shed tears for any manager with a long term contract...its money in the bank if their ego can take it. | | | |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 08:22 - May 25 with 1782 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 23:07 - May 24 by pioneer |
but the point is these moaning managers are probaly not being totally transparent...what a shock. If they want the full payout then they have to remain as employees under the contract. They cannot have the money and be released from doing anything for it.
Of course if poor performance (of the players of course) was to qualify as due cause there would be no need for any compensation. They would be deemed to have not fulfilled the terms of the contract and be sacked without the need for any compo.
Anyway I cannot shed tears for any manager with a long term contract...its money in the bank if their ego can take it. |
Good post. It seems to take an eternity for some of these 'Football people' to be rumbled, they make a very good living out of not being very good at their jobs. By the time people have cottoned on, they have made enough money out of the game to have a comfortable life.
It's like jobs for the boys and everybody seems to be scratching each other's backs, the same faces moving from one job to the next. They only need three or four decent contracts and bingo, they're set up for life. I'm not just talking Premiership, it's also rife in the lower league and let's not be suckered into thinking the majority of people earning their livings at that level are on the bread line because they're not. A manager in League one and even league two is earning very good money, as are a lot of the players.
Lower league footballers driving top of the range vehicles is the norm these days, they're living the dream, how they look after their money for the long term though is a different issue. | | | |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 08:56 - May 25 with 1729 views | D_Alien |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 08:22 - May 25 by TalkingSutty |
Good post. It seems to take an eternity for some of these 'Football people' to be rumbled, they make a very good living out of not being very good at their jobs. By the time people have cottoned on, they have made enough money out of the game to have a comfortable life.
It's like jobs for the boys and everybody seems to be scratching each other's backs, the same faces moving from one job to the next. They only need three or four decent contracts and bingo, they're set up for life. I'm not just talking Premiership, it's also rife in the lower league and let's not be suckered into thinking the majority of people earning their livings at that level are on the bread line because they're not. A manager in League one and even league two is earning very good money, as are a lot of the players.
Lower league footballers driving top of the range vehicles is the norm these days, they're living the dream, how they look after their money for the long term though is a different issue. |
That's partly why I (and yourself?) can't be doing with the "hero-worshipping" aspect of supporters. I've no issue with the money that's being paid - it's a simple rule of economics, whatever people think of it - but it's bloody good money by any standards.
What isn't palatable is the arse-licking that some fans engage in for people who may be able to kick a football better than most, or put together a group of lads so they can play together consistently well enough to attract good salaries. Meanwhile, in the real world, there are many many people quietly going about their business making a difference to people's lives - most of them don't need or seek publicity, but they're experts at what they do and deserve every penny they earn.
Many people on this messageboard may have shaken their heads at posts I've made regarding players who severely let down themselves, their team mates and the fans by their inability to control themselves on a football pitch. That's where I'm coming from. Such actions by individuals in any other professional capacity would have them out the door in short order, irrespective of their ability at doing the job. Why should footballers be judged by any different criteria?
Following football, and the Dale, is a brilliant form of escapism. When we're successful there's a natural high, and it's something we as Dale fans appreciate more than most. But let's not fool ourselves that the people involved in the sport are any better than they should be. They make a lot of money out of it, and this debate about compensation shows that many get paid for failure too. Yep, so do others such as bankers and politicians - but look at how they're viewed by the general public! | |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 09:04 - May 25 with 1704 views | fitzochris |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 23:07 - May 24 by pioneer |
but the point is these moaning managers are probaly not being totally transparent...what a shock. If they want the full payout then they have to remain as employees under the contract. They cannot have the money and be released from doing anything for it.
Of course if poor performance (of the players of course) was to qualify as due cause there would be no need for any compensation. They would be deemed to have not fulfilled the terms of the contract and be sacked without the need for any compo.
Anyway I cannot shed tears for any manager with a long term contract...its money in the bank if their ego can take it. |
"Of course if poor performance (of the players of course) was to qualify as due cause there would be no need for any compensation. They would be deemed to have not fulfilled the terms of the contract and be sacked without the need for any compo."
But if that was the case, nobody would take a job in management because not every team can win a title or a trophy every season. Somebody has to "fail ". There has to be some trade-off to get a manager to take on a job in the first place.
As for TS's point about managers as low down as League Two not being on the breadline, this may be the case for a lot of them, but not all.
It's worse in other parts of Britain.
I was reading an interview with a chap called David Farrell not too long ago. He spent his career, for the most part, as a part-time footballer in the lower Scottish leagues.
When he retired, he was given the chance to be Alex Rae's assistant manager at Dundee, which meant giving up his other job as a coach at a local college. He gave up a secure job to get back into football (his choice, I know). Regardless, he was quite reliant on the Dundee income (£25,000 per year). He signed a one-year rolling contract, which, he says, meant for every day he was in employment his contract had a year left to run. Tellingly, he also said that meant he would get a year's pay-out should the worst happen.
When he and Rae were given their cards, Farrell was shafted by Dundee and didn't get what he was owed. He ended up driving a taxi for a living to make ends meet.
So, while at the top end of management it may be a case of a desire to work over a need, it's not true of football as a whole. [Post edited 25 May 2016 9:15]
| |
| |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 09:21 - May 25 with 1660 views | nordenblue |
| Hill to Blackburn? on 09:04 - May 25 by fitzochris |
"Of course if poor performance (of the players of course) was to qualify as due cause there would be no need for any compensation. They would be deemed to have not fulfilled the terms of the contract and be sacked without the need for any compo."
But if that was the case, nobody would take a job in management because not every team can win a title or a trophy every season. Somebody has to "fail ". There has to be some trade-off to get a manager to take on a job in the first place.
As for TS's point about managers as low down as League Two not being on the breadline, this may be the case for a lot of them, but not all.
It's worse in other parts of Britain.
I was reading an interview with a chap called David Farrell not too long ago. He spent his career, for the most part, as a part-time footballer in the lower Scottish leagues.
When he retired, he was given the chance to be Alex Rae's assistant manager at Dundee, which meant giving up his other job as a coach at a local college. He gave up a secure job to get back into football (his choice, I know). Regardless, he was quite reliant on the Dundee income (£25,000 per year). He signed a one-year rolling contract, which, he says, meant for every day he was in employment his contract had a year left to run. Tellingly, he also said that meant he would get a year's pay-out should the worst happen.
When he and Rae were given their cards, Farrell was shafted by Dundee and didn't get what he was owed. He ended up driving a taxi for a living to make ends meet.
So, while at the top end of management it may be a case of a desire to work over a need, it's not true of football as a whole. [Post edited 25 May 2016 9:15]
|
Most managers at any professional club are on a very good wage and most generally earn a hell of a lot more than joe public,it's not just the top end.
There'll be managers in the conference earning ridiculous sums of money for not an awful lot too I'd bet | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
