| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread 20:33 - Apr 7 with 84651 views | exiledclaseboy |
About time we had one and it's got the word "official" in the title so that makes all the difference. If a mod wants to sticky it, feel free.
I seem to remember that five years ago (on the old, better Planet Swans) we got to nearly 100 pages and then another 60odd with the "aftermath" thread. They were good fun but there were more posters then and we were all a bit more tolerant of others' views. Let's try to be nice to each other, eh.
Anyway, best site for opinion polls is this one in my experience:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/
Polls are so tight the only conclusion is that the Tories and Labour are head to head nationwide. Can't put a whisker between them.
Tories need about 39-40% for an overall majority. Labour will probably get one on 36-37%. God bless our ridiculous voting system.
So, enjoy yourselves. I'll start with a prediction. Labour to win most seats but slightly fewer votes than the Tories and end up forming some kind of minority government with support from various parliamentary lefties on a vote by vote basis. And then all of a sudden many Tory supporters will discover that they've always hated first past the post and can't understand why we perpetuate a system under which the party which more people voted for than any other can lose the election. It'll be quite funny and lead to calls for a proper voting system. Which everyone will forget about in six months when all the fuss has died down.
What say you? |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:57 - Apr 7 with 2416 views | monmouth |
It would certainly be ironic (I think, although I'm not 100% sure what ironic means anymore) if hung parliaments led to a PR system as that would deliver hung parliaments in perpetuity wouldn't it?. We need something different to FPTP though for sure. Not in my lifetime I reckon. |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 22:06 - Apr 7 with 2411 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:57 - Apr 7 by monmouth |
It would certainly be ironic (I think, although I'm not 100% sure what ironic means anymore) if hung parliaments led to a PR system as that would deliver hung parliaments in perpetuity wouldn't it?. We need something different to FPTP though for sure. Not in my lifetime I reckon. |
I don't think it'll be a hung parliament that leads to its demise. More likely to be the kind of situation where a party with more seats but significantly less votes forms a viable government. Or a breakthrough party commands a sizeable chunk of the vote but hardly any seats. It's likely (from current polls at least) that UKIP could attract up to 5-10% more votes than the LibDems but end up with about a quarter of the amount of seats when compared to the LibDems. No matter what anyone thinks of UKIP, and Gawd knows that I'm not a fan, that just isn't right. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 22:20 - Apr 7 with 2393 views | skippyjack |
My future doesn't look great does it.. No matter what party is 'apparently' in charge... |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 22:23 - Apr 7 with 2387 views | Witneyjack |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 21:54 - Apr 7 by exiledclaseboy |
Don't think so. It would then be re-fixed for five years after the second one. |
Could be interesting if there is a minority coalition that collapses over and over. We could have an election every six months! |  | | |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 23:09 - Apr 7 with 2359 views | jackonicko |
I suspect that as we get closer to polling day, people will appreciate the horror of handing power to Milliband and Balls, step back from the brink, do the only sensible thing, and vote Conservative.
My prediction therefore is a Conservative majority.
If that doesn't happen, well, the general public are stupid and should never have been entrusted with the vote in the first place.I can't be responsible for not predicting the stupidity of the people.
 |  | | |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 23:27 - Apr 7 with 2342 views | trampie |
The only sensible vote would be for Plaid Cymru and the lovely Leanne. |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 09:41 - Apr 8 with 2250 views | waynekerr55 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 23:09 - Apr 7 by jackonicko |
I suspect that as we get closer to polling day, people will appreciate the horror of handing power to Milliband and Balls, step back from the brink, do the only sensible thing, and vote Conservative.
My prediction therefore is a Conservative majority.
If that doesn't happen, well, the general public are stupid and should never have been entrusted with the vote in the first place.I can't be responsible for not predicting the stupidity of the people.
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You're sounding like Tony Blair ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‚😂😷 |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:13 - Apr 8 with 2235 views | skippyjack |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 23:09 - Apr 7 by jackonicko |
I suspect that as we get closer to polling day, people will appreciate the horror of handing power to Milliband and Balls, step back from the brink, do the only sensible thing, and vote Conservative.
My prediction therefore is a Conservative majority.
If that doesn't happen, well, the general public are stupid and should never have been entrusted with the vote in the first place.I can't be responsible for not predicting the stupidity of the people.
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Considering i'm a part of this blatant political corruption between Labour and the Conservatives.. over these past 8 years.. I've been part of their political game.. they've done their utmost best to destroy me in some shape or form.. but miraculously i continue to soldier on.. regression after regression after regression.. the moral of the story is..
if you do well in School you're in.
if you don't.. you're targeted and become a political scapegoat.
it's as simple as that.. i'm a political scapegoat.. every time i regain intelligence i'm knocked back and regressed.. true story. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:32 - Apr 8 with 2228 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:13 - Apr 8 by skippyjack |
Considering i'm a part of this blatant political corruption between Labour and the Conservatives.. over these past 8 years.. I've been part of their political game.. they've done their utmost best to destroy me in some shape or form.. but miraculously i continue to soldier on.. regression after regression after regression.. the moral of the story is..
if you do well in School you're in.
if you don't.. you're targeted and become a political scapegoat.
it's as simple as that.. i'm a political scapegoat.. every time i regain intelligence i'm knocked back and regressed.. true story. |
That a very valid point skip to be fair.
It's a good job you are not disabled otherwise they would hit you harder .
We need left wing politics back to get this country up & running .
More police , more Dr's renationalise trains , gas , electric , raise the minimum wage .
With a point scoring Austrailian immigration system & close the borders .
Get hold of all the massive corporations and their slave labour & tax dodging .
We need more working class people in parliament .
I havnt made my mind up yet who I'am voting for but it certainly won't be the conservatives . |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:42 - Apr 8 with 2224 views | perchrockjack |
Disagree TOMMY.
We need to rid ourselves of the stain of being working class, middle class ,upper class and whatever the feck others call themselves.
Its held this country back over the centuries.
We need politricians who care enough to put the country first and to make unpopular decisions for the greater good, not based on class politics. My ersewhile chum epaul would seem to want Thatcher supporters burned alive .
Fact is, if we obsess ourselves with voting for our "class" then we re fooked.
I VE JUST THOUGHT ABOUT IT...we are fooked |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:42 - Apr 8 with 2222 views | perchrockjack |
Disagree TOMMY.
We need to rid ourselves of the stain of being working class, middle class ,upper class and whatever the feck others call themselves.
Its held this country back over the centuries.
We need politicians who care enough to put the country first and to make unpopular decisions for the greater good, not based on class politics. My ersewhile chum epaul would seem to want Thatcher supporters burned alive .
Fact is, if we obsess ourselves with voting for our "class" then we re fooked.
I VE JUST THOUGHT ABOUT IT...we are fooked | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 11:20 - Apr 8 with 2206 views | yescomeon |
If the SNP get the votes they are forcast too I don't see it going to anyone other than Labour. With whatever MPs Plaid and the Greens get in there also. I won't be voting for labour though. |  |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 11:34 - Apr 8 with 2198 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:42 - Apr 8 by perchrockjack |
Disagree TOMMY.
We need to rid ourselves of the stain of being working class, middle class ,upper class and whatever the feck others call themselves.
Its held this country back over the centuries.
We need politicians who care enough to put the country first and to make unpopular decisions for the greater good, not based on class politics. My ersewhile chum epaul would seem to want Thatcher supporters burned alive .
Fact is, if we obsess ourselves with voting for our "class" then we re fooked.
I VE JUST THOUGHT ABOUT IT...we are fooked |
Ok perch agree .
Let's change working class to " ordinary people who have livid in the real world " .
What you think | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 11:44 - Apr 8 with 2187 views | skippyjack |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:42 - Apr 8 by perchrockjack |
Disagree TOMMY.
We need to rid ourselves of the stain of being working class, middle class ,upper class and whatever the feck others call themselves.
Its held this country back over the centuries.
We need politicians who care enough to put the country first and to make unpopular decisions for the greater good, not based on class politics. My ersewhile chum epaul would seem to want Thatcher supporters burned alive .
Fact is, if we obsess ourselves with voting for our "class" then we re fooked.
I VE JUST THOUGHT ABOUT IT...we are fooked |
you will never change the class system.. the upper class gave the lower class or 'underclass' education and structure.. you can never become 'upper class'.. you've got to be born into it.
'upper class' people can sniff out 'upper class' people.. it's in the voice.. the tone.. the manner.. the 'way'.. it's structured differently from the rest.. many people try to copy and imitate the 'way'.. but they fail because it isn't them.. it's like they crave the upper class model.. and that's not the upper class 'way'.. it's a natural thing.. you're naturally 'upper class'.. you're naturally 'under class'.. you can't buy what? | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 11:44 - Apr 8 with 2108 views | waynekerr55 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 11:20 - Apr 8 by yescomeon |
If the SNP get the votes they are forcast too I don't see it going to anyone other than Labour. With whatever MPs Plaid and the Greens get in there also. I won't be voting for labour though. |
Brilliant so England and Wales get shafted and Scotland comes out smelling of roses | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 11:56 - Apr 8 with 2101 views | yescomeon |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 11:44 - Apr 8 by waynekerr55 |
Brilliant so England and Wales get shafted and Scotland comes out smelling of roses |
Never said it was good. I and 63% of Wales think Wales should be getting equal funding with Scotland and have the same powers. All this hate directed towards the SNP is simply feeding them. I could well see the next referendum going differently, and it is the right of the Scottish people to vote they way they want to vote. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 12:19 - Apr 8 with 2089 views | waynekerr55 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 11:56 - Apr 8 by yescomeon |
Never said it was good. I and 63% of Wales think Wales should be getting equal funding with Scotland and have the same powers. All this hate directed towards the SNP is simply feeding them. I could well see the next referendum going differently, and it is the right of the Scottish people to vote they way they want to vote. |
Yeah I know. Frightening isn't it. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 12:27 - Apr 8 with 2081 views | perchrockjack |
Skippy
That s a good post. I don't agree with all of it but with some certainly..
My point is that we should nt be shackled by anyone..
Im my own man
I have what could be called right wing views but it some way I am very left wing.
Im a passionate anti monarchist | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 12:28 - Apr 8 with 2080 views | yescomeon |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 12:19 - Apr 8 by waynekerr55 |
Yeah I know. Frightening isn't it. |
I wouldn't say I am frightened of the rise of the SNP, wish we were in their position if I am honest though. | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 12:54 - Apr 8 with 2062 views | epaul |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 10:42 - Apr 8 by perchrockjack |
Disagree TOMMY.
We need to rid ourselves of the stain of being working class, middle class ,upper class and whatever the feck others call themselves.
Its held this country back over the centuries.
We need politicians who care enough to put the country first and to make unpopular decisions for the greater good, not based on class politics. My ersewhile chum epaul would seem to want Thatcher supporters burned alive .
Fact is, if we obsess ourselves with voting for our "class" then we re fooked.
I VE JUST THOUGHT ABOUT IT...we are fooked |
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/thatcherism-was-a-national-catastrop
Thatcherism was a national catastrophe that still poisons us
We are in the midst of the third great economic collapse since the Second World War: all three have taken place since Thatcherism launched its great crusade
SHARE
559
289
0
848
In the war led by Margaret Thatcher’s governments — against the left, the trade unions, the post-war consensus — her side was crushingly, devastatingly, humiliatingly victorious.
In the coming days, some on the right will attempt to snuff out criticism of her legacy, arguing that it is somehow disrespectful, spiteful or ghoulish. Absurd, of course: she was a politician — the most divisive in modern British history — and what she represented must of course be debated. They will use the moment of her passing to batter Thatcherism into the national psyche: that she somehow saved Britain from ruin, put the “great” back into “Great Britain”, and so forth. Those who grew up in the Britain that Thatcher built will be patronised: you were still learning how to walk at the height of her power. And that is why it is crucial to separate Thatcherism from the woman who spearheaded it.
Thatcherism was a national catastrophe, and we remain trapped by its consequences. As her former Chancellor Geoffrey Howe put it: “Her real triumph was to have transformed not just one party but two, so that when Labour did eventually return, the great bulk of Thatcherism was accepted as irreversible.”
We are in the midst of the third great economic collapse since the Second World War: all three have taken place since Thatcherism launched its great crusade. This current crisis has roots in the Thatcherite free market experiment, which wiped out much of the country’s industrial base in favour of a deregulated financial sector.
A poisoned “debate” about social security rages in Cameron’s Britain. It focuses on the idea that there are large numbers of people stuck on benefits. It is certainly true that there were more people languishing in long-term unemployment last year than there were in all forms of unemployment 40 years ago. In large part, this is a consequence of Thatcherism’s emptying communities of millions of secure, skilled industrial jobs. Large swathes of Britain — mining villages, steel towns and so on — were devastated, and never really recovered. Even when Britain was supposedly booming, the old industrial heartlands had high levels of what is rather clinically described as “economic inactivity”.
Five million people now languish on social housing waiting lists, while billions of pounds of housing benefit line the pockets of private landlords charging rip-off rents. The scarcity of housing turns communities against each other, as immigrants or anyone deemed less deserving are scapegoated. But the guilt really lies with the Thatcherite policy of right-to-buy and failure to replace the stock that was sold off.
Champions of Thatcherism hail the crippling of the trade unions, which were battered by anti-union laws, mass unemployment, and crushing defeats of strikes, not least after the rout of the iconic miners. This has not only left workers at the mercy of their bosses, but has made them poorer, too. Four years before the crisis began, the income of the bottom half was stagnating, while for the bottom third it actually began to decline — even as corporations were posting record profits. With no unions to stand their corner, workers’ living standards have long been squeezed — driving large numbers to cheap credit.
We could go on. Britain was one of the most equal Western European countries before the Thatcherite project began, and is now one of the most unequal. Thatcherism is not just alive and well: it courses through the veins of British political life. The current government goes where Thatcherism did not dare in its privatisation of the NHS and sledgehammering of the welfare state.
The challenge ahead is the same as it was yesterday: to tear down the whole edifice of Thatcherism, heal Britain of the damage done, and build a country run in the interests of working people. It’s a fight we must all fight. The champagne is on ice until we win it. |  |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 13:01 - Apr 8 with 2054 views | waynekerr55 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 12:54 - Apr 8 by epaul |
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/thatcherism-was-a-national-catastrop
Thatcherism was a national catastrophe that still poisons us
We are in the midst of the third great economic collapse since the Second World War: all three have taken place since Thatcherism launched its great crusade
SHARE
559
289
0
848
In the war led by Margaret Thatcher’s governments — against the left, the trade unions, the post-war consensus — her side was crushingly, devastatingly, humiliatingly victorious.
In the coming days, some on the right will attempt to snuff out criticism of her legacy, arguing that it is somehow disrespectful, spiteful or ghoulish. Absurd, of course: she was a politician — the most divisive in modern British history — and what she represented must of course be debated. They will use the moment of her passing to batter Thatcherism into the national psyche: that she somehow saved Britain from ruin, put the “great” back into “Great Britain”, and so forth. Those who grew up in the Britain that Thatcher built will be patronised: you were still learning how to walk at the height of her power. And that is why it is crucial to separate Thatcherism from the woman who spearheaded it.
Thatcherism was a national catastrophe, and we remain trapped by its consequences. As her former Chancellor Geoffrey Howe put it: “Her real triumph was to have transformed not just one party but two, so that when Labour did eventually return, the great bulk of Thatcherism was accepted as irreversible.”
We are in the midst of the third great economic collapse since the Second World War: all three have taken place since Thatcherism launched its great crusade. This current crisis has roots in the Thatcherite free market experiment, which wiped out much of the country’s industrial base in favour of a deregulated financial sector.
A poisoned “debate” about social security rages in Cameron’s Britain. It focuses on the idea that there are large numbers of people stuck on benefits. It is certainly true that there were more people languishing in long-term unemployment last year than there were in all forms of unemployment 40 years ago. In large part, this is a consequence of Thatcherism’s emptying communities of millions of secure, skilled industrial jobs. Large swathes of Britain — mining villages, steel towns and so on — were devastated, and never really recovered. Even when Britain was supposedly booming, the old industrial heartlands had high levels of what is rather clinically described as “economic inactivity”.
Five million people now languish on social housing waiting lists, while billions of pounds of housing benefit line the pockets of private landlords charging rip-off rents. The scarcity of housing turns communities against each other, as immigrants or anyone deemed less deserving are scapegoated. But the guilt really lies with the Thatcherite policy of right-to-buy and failure to replace the stock that was sold off.
Champions of Thatcherism hail the crippling of the trade unions, which were battered by anti-union laws, mass unemployment, and crushing defeats of strikes, not least after the rout of the iconic miners. This has not only left workers at the mercy of their bosses, but has made them poorer, too. Four years before the crisis began, the income of the bottom half was stagnating, while for the bottom third it actually began to decline — even as corporations were posting record profits. With no unions to stand their corner, workers’ living standards have long been squeezed — driving large numbers to cheap credit.
We could go on. Britain was one of the most equal Western European countries before the Thatcherite project began, and is now one of the most unequal. Thatcherism is not just alive and well: it courses through the veins of British political life. The current government goes where Thatcherism did not dare in its privatisation of the NHS and sledgehammering of the welfare state.
The challenge ahead is the same as it was yesterday: to tear down the whole edifice of Thatcherism, heal Britain of the damage done, and build a country run in the interests of working people. It’s a fight we must all fight. The champagne is on ice until we win it. |
As I was but a young buck during Maggie's time I haven't experienced truly what it was like. I will say that I believe there were the following flaws:
- the taxpayer should have retained a significant shareholding in the privatised industries, as it would have allowed significant dividends as well as the ability to veto decisions
- the large bulk of right to buy money should have been ring fenced to build social housing
- a sovereign wealth fund should have been set up | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 13:11 - Apr 8 with 2044 views | skippyjack |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 12:54 - Apr 8 by epaul |
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/thatcherism-was-a-national-catastrop
Thatcherism was a national catastrophe that still poisons us
We are in the midst of the third great economic collapse since the Second World War: all three have taken place since Thatcherism launched its great crusade
SHARE
559
289
0
848
In the war led by Margaret Thatcher’s governments — against the left, the trade unions, the post-war consensus — her side was crushingly, devastatingly, humiliatingly victorious.
In the coming days, some on the right will attempt to snuff out criticism of her legacy, arguing that it is somehow disrespectful, spiteful or ghoulish. Absurd, of course: she was a politician — the most divisive in modern British history — and what she represented must of course be debated. They will use the moment of her passing to batter Thatcherism into the national psyche: that she somehow saved Britain from ruin, put the “great” back into “Great Britain”, and so forth. Those who grew up in the Britain that Thatcher built will be patronised: you were still learning how to walk at the height of her power. And that is why it is crucial to separate Thatcherism from the woman who spearheaded it.
Thatcherism was a national catastrophe, and we remain trapped by its consequences. As her former Chancellor Geoffrey Howe put it: “Her real triumph was to have transformed not just one party but two, so that when Labour did eventually return, the great bulk of Thatcherism was accepted as irreversible.”
We are in the midst of the third great economic collapse since the Second World War: all three have taken place since Thatcherism launched its great crusade. This current crisis has roots in the Thatcherite free market experiment, which wiped out much of the country’s industrial base in favour of a deregulated financial sector.
A poisoned “debate” about social security rages in Cameron’s Britain. It focuses on the idea that there are large numbers of people stuck on benefits. It is certainly true that there were more people languishing in long-term unemployment last year than there were in all forms of unemployment 40 years ago. In large part, this is a consequence of Thatcherism’s emptying communities of millions of secure, skilled industrial jobs. Large swathes of Britain — mining villages, steel towns and so on — were devastated, and never really recovered. Even when Britain was supposedly booming, the old industrial heartlands had high levels of what is rather clinically described as “economic inactivity”.
Five million people now languish on social housing waiting lists, while billions of pounds of housing benefit line the pockets of private landlords charging rip-off rents. The scarcity of housing turns communities against each other, as immigrants or anyone deemed less deserving are scapegoated. But the guilt really lies with the Thatcherite policy of right-to-buy and failure to replace the stock that was sold off.
Champions of Thatcherism hail the crippling of the trade unions, which were battered by anti-union laws, mass unemployment, and crushing defeats of strikes, not least after the rout of the iconic miners. This has not only left workers at the mercy of their bosses, but has made them poorer, too. Four years before the crisis began, the income of the bottom half was stagnating, while for the bottom third it actually began to decline — even as corporations were posting record profits. With no unions to stand their corner, workers’ living standards have long been squeezed — driving large numbers to cheap credit.
We could go on. Britain was one of the most equal Western European countries before the Thatcherite project began, and is now one of the most unequal. Thatcherism is not just alive and well: it courses through the veins of British political life. The current government goes where Thatcherism did not dare in its privatisation of the NHS and sledgehammering of the welfare state.
The challenge ahead is the same as it was yesterday: to tear down the whole edifice of Thatcherism, heal Britain of the damage done, and build a country run in the interests of working people. It’s a fight we must all fight. The champagne is on ice until we win it. |
Thatcherism isn't still alive.. Labour and the Cons are purposely looking for excuses to get into power.. Labour are attacking the less vulnerable 'Labour' voters.. using me as a 'number' to beat the Conservatives with..
The two major parties need to grow up.. i'm a part of this corruption.. and i'm getting sik of it.. these two political parties owe me an apology. | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 13:46 - Apr 8 with 2022 views | perchrockjack |
tom.
Apart from ordinary, I'd agree mate.
thatcher for , not me, saved this country from bleeding to death.
This is Wales and Welsh people so it's going to be a one way street.
Opinions | |
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| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 15:31 - Apr 8 with 1975 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:54 - Apr 7 by perchrockjack |
Yvette Cooper.........................
There we are.......................
With deference to the lovely lisa Ive resisted any sexually inappropriate words..
I cant see it lasting |
thank you Perchie :-) | | | |
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